Plans have been filed for DVC expansion at Caribbean Beach Resort

[lockedoutlogic]

Yes - OK. I do realize you and some others were suggesting that as well. I guess that's a possibility. But, "value" suites already run $250 - $350 a night. Does Disney think there's a big market for "moderate" suites that they would likely charge $500 a night for?

Even so, I don't buy that they would tear down existing buildings for this - they would use the existing Buildings and refurb them to make two rooms as one.

Yeah...that's what I'm postulating...

I do not think there is a great desire for a DVC there UNLESS they change a lot of the details. I.e. Less upfront, less per night, separate pool.

Now...are they delusional enough to think that it will sell no matter what they do?

...what's your guess?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Oh, but it could be and it really chaffs my butt that it's not. If they would improve the MENU - like a late night FOOD menu that place would be a hit. As it stands now, you can get some really crappy bar food items for a high price, but if you actually wanted a burger, no go. You have to leave and go to Contempo Café. All they need to do is serve a small menu that is similar to Contempo Café and I bet no one leaves the place.

And yet...it's not.

I like to call it "the bored bartender boutique"

And you know why they don't serve any useful food...because they eliminated any specialization that requires the slightest bit of effort.

Hell, even the streamline drink menus are tacky. Can't have specific drinks?

 

[Madonna3]

Indeed...25 year old hotels always show there stress and wear.

That's part of the gig and Disney knows it. At some point you have to strip it down and literally rebuild. They've done it at the older resorts before...they'll do it at the DVC's as well...or take them offline when the contracts expire...only two options.

I have a feeling that the latter will happen. OKW was their experiment and while it was somewhat successful, it also was their learning model. They did SSR using an improved OKW model and saw the same problems, glutton of available inventory and lower point per night values. I feel once the contracts at OKW expire, they'll tear down OKW and start over.

 

[Madonna3]

You lost me at "Growing Attraction of Downtown Disney" - the new Mall feel of Disney Springs is even more of a turnoff to me than the old version. My wife - who's the shopper in the family feels the same way. When we were walking around down there last trip it seemed empty. I mean, I understand our three bodies are a small portion of the attraction - but with continued lack of nightlife, I find DS/DTD to be the lesser of what it was 15 years ago.

Are people really chomping at the bit to be near there? To me it's more like "Oh well, I'm at SSR, at least I can walk over to DS once."

I'm with you. There is no fire in my family to go to DS. In fact, we find it highly inconvenient to go there when we want to. Fortunately the move theater is by the parking garage so that helps, but I don't understand why they did this. Sure, lots of places to eat, but it's so hard to get there. Then, there's lots of shopping, but it's stuff I can buy at home (and I live in Florida) and it's cheaper where I live. I just don't understand who doesn't have a Vera Bradley store somewhere within a reasonable drive in their home state unless they're appealing to the international shopper. But again, I kinda feel they can probably get better at home. I hate DS. Bring back Pleasure Island!!

 

[Madonna3]

And yet...it's not.

I like to call it "the bored bartender boutique"

And you know why they don't serve any useful food...because they eliminated any specialization that requires the slightest bit of effort.

Hell, even the streamline drink menus are tacky. Can't have specific drinks?

I don't drink so I didn't know that. I thought they could make anything you asked for. At least, I was pretty sure my friends ordered just some generic drinks and got them.

After reading ALL of this thread, because like others, I find it highly interesting, I am sticking to my original opinion that these will be suites like AOA, but priced higher. AOA is still a value resort. They may have a market for moderate AOA suites and are using Caribbean to build them. AOA suites are a self contained building - like a regular hotel. There's not an outside access door like Caribbean. I'm not sure why they build it that way, but a "tower" at Caribbean seems like it would fit the AOA model.

 

[sachilles]

I would think the concept for a fireworks view tower would be more like a Tapas buffet. Pay to enter as you would a buffet. Alcohol extra. Then put out apps in small portions meant to highlight the offerings different restaurants at WDW. Sort of mini food and wine.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I agree...unfortunately...about downtown.

Some may recall...that about 2 years ago I described the redo as the most important/useful project at wdw...because it's the prime "filler" spot that attracts a wide variety of patrons...it's useful to more than matching tshirts at rope drop paying a high daily cost.

Man...does it underwhelm. I find myself not wanting to go back in a few weeks except to go to Homecoming...

I do have a random question...why in the heck did they not level pleasure island so it doesn't have that bizarre tiered layout? To keep 3 shops
Open for 5 years?

I mean...come on...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't drink so I didn't know that. I thought they could make anything you asked for. At least, I was pretty sure my friends ordered just some generic drinks and got them.

After reading ALL of this thread, because like others, I find it highly interesting, I am sticking to my original opinion that these will be suites like AOA, but priced higher. AOA is still a value resort. They may have a market for moderate AOA suites and are using Caribbean to build them. AOA suites are a self contained building - like a regular hotel. There's not an outside access door like Caribbean. I'm not sure why they build it that way, but a "tower" at Caribbean seems like it would fit the AOA model.

They certainly can make you anything. But they slap the same preprinted menu at 200 different bars. It was much more appealing when they had more specific/pfunny drinks.

Just a minor thing

 

[Madonna3]

They certainly can make you anything. But they slap the same preprinted menu at 200 different bars. It was much more appealing when they had more specific/pfunny drinks.

Just a minor thing

Oh ok. I get what you mean now.

 

[LaidBackDad]

Yeah...that's what I'm postulating...

I do not think there is a great desire for a DVC there UNLESS they change a lot of the details. I.e. Less upfront, less per night, separate pool.

Now...are they delusional enough to think that it will sell no matter what they do?

...what's your guess?

I think proximity of CBR to Epcot and DHS is too much to ignore. I think being one of the oldest properties in the swamp the whole concept of DVC and deluxe, moderate, and value hotels wasn't even in the wildest dreams of park planners when CBR was built. I think the MK / monorail resorts have gotten all the love from DVC in recent years and now it's time for the Epcot area to get some love. I think in today's Disney they don't waste prime real estate on anything but deluxe accommodations which they can charge top dollar for. I think a tower or multiple buildings on the sight and rumored major face lift of Epcot after DHS is complete means 100's millions if not billions in infrastructure changes to the whole Epcot area. I think there is no way they don't include improved transportation or park access to the improvements. I think Disney would rather stick with the DVC model that they know works than blow it up on any type of lower tier system.

 

[Madonna3]

I think proximity of CBR to Epcot and DHS is too much to ignore. I think being one of the oldest properties in the swamp the whole concept of DVC and deluxe, moderate, and value hotels wasn't even in the wildest dreams of park planners when CBR was built. I think the MK / monorail resorts have gotten all the love from DVC in recent years and now it's time for the Epcot area to get some love. I think in today's Disney they don't waste prime real estate on anything but deluxe accommodations which they can charge top dollar for. I think a tower or multiple buildings on the sight and rumored major face lift of Epcot after DHS is complete means 100's millions if not billions in infrastructure changes to the whole Epcot area. I think there is no way they don't include improved transportation or park access to the improvements. I think if Disney would rather stick with the DVC model that they know works than blow it up on any type of lower tier system.

Maybe you're on to something. If this is a DVC property, perhaps this CBR expansion lays the ground work so that DHS and Epcot can connect to it, but won't be permitted until Epcot is overhauled. Maybe that's the reason we're not seeing evidence of it now.

 

[LaidBackDad]

I would think the concept for a fireworks view tower would be more like a Tapas buffet. Pay to enter as you would a buffet. Alcohol extra. Then put out apps in small portions meant to highlight the offerings different restaurants at WDW. Sort of mini food and wine.

....I like this idea, it would likely work.

Or, instead of Top of the World, why not a California Grill 2, type restaurant? I seem to recall CG is rather popular especially during Wishes.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think proximity of CBR to Epcot and DHS is too much to ignore. I think being one of the oldest properties in the swamp the whole concept of DVC and deluxe, moderate, and value hotels wasn't even in the wildest dreams of park planners when CBR was built. I think the MK / monorail resorts have gotten all the love from DVC in recent years and now it's time for the Epcot area to get some love. I think in today's Disney they don't waste prime real estate on anything but deluxe accommodations which they can charge top dollar for. I think a tower or multiple buildings on the sight and rumored major face lift of Epcot after DHS is complete means 100's millions if not billions in infrastructure changes to the whole Epcot area. I think there is no way they don't include improved transportation or park access to the improvements. I think if Disney would rather stick with the DVC model that they know works than blow it up on any type of lower tier system.

We're looking at it from different angles.

Right now Caribbean is not "close" to those places at all due to logistics.

I don't think they will massively rework the canals/transport system. The main problem - other than money - is that it opens the Pandora's box of having cheaper properties connected to the transit point...there would be still more than 4,500 rooms at the 3 adjoining properties next to this fabulous tower for the patricians.

Go get some fast food...just make sure nobody follows you back to the canal? Come on.

And I know all we need is a view of fireworks to justify spending $10,000 a week these days...but come on. It's gonna take more to impress people to spend what will be a $25,000 minimum contract at Caribbean than a room to watch the fireworks from, a soda fountain, and pool.

 

[LaidBackDad]

We're looking at it from different angles.

Right now Caribbean is not "close" to those places at all due to logistics.

I don't think they will massively rework the canals/transport system. The main problem - other than money - is that it opens the Pandora's box of having cheaper properties connected to the transit point...there would be still more than 4,500 rooms at the 3 adjoining properties next to this fabulous tower for the patricians.

Go get some fast food...just make sure nobody follows you back to the canal? Come on.

And I know all we need is a view of fireworks to justify spending $10,000 a week these days...but come on. It's gonna take more to impress people to spend what will be a $25,000 minimum contract at Caribbean than a room to watch the fireworks from, a soda fountain, and pool.

Definitely have a different angles on this one. Funny thing is, I think I sound more like the @lockedoutlogic I have read all this time than you do.
Gotta believe 10 years from now a brand new DVC with convenient access to not 1 but 2 newly renovated parks would be able so sell pretty well on its own without fireworks or a soda fountain.

 

[sachilles]

What about this? Build it now as regular rooms. When the DHS stuff comes online and Epcot re-work is at least announced, then you announce that you are converting to a dvc, and adding a phase 2(across the lagoon from South trinidad).

The thought is to take in the revenue when it's the new "hot" property. Then convert to DVC after a bit to help cover the costs of everything.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Definitely have a different angles on this one. Funny thing is, I think I sound more like the @lockedoutlogic I have read all this time than you do.
Gotta believe 10 years from now a brand new DVC with convenient access to not 1 but 2 newly renovated parks would be able so sell pretty well on its own without fireworks or a soda fountain.

Oh no...I have no doubt they'd do it. It will just be a massive mistake. Caribbean should be bulldozed...not have a timeshare added to it.

 

[XXRAINMANX]

So I haven't read through this whole thread and I could easily be wrong, but isn't this resort the one without elevators? If it is that one I could see this as just being a remodel/expansion that solves a shortage of rooms for rent, will be done prior to a Epcot Future World remodel that could lead to higher crowds, and fixes the no elevators at the resort problem.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

You lost me at "Growing Attraction of Downtown Disney" - the new Mall feel of Disney Springs is even more of a turnoff to me than the old version. My wife - who's the shopper in the family feels the same way. When we were walking around down there last trip it seemed empty. I mean, I understand our three bodies are a small portion of the attraction - but with continued lack of nightlife, I find DS/DTD to be the lesser of what it was 15 years ago.

Are people really chomping at the bit to be near there? To me it's more like "Oh well, I'm at SSR, at least I can walk over to DS once."

It's definitely less of a destination than it was 15 years ago with Pleasure Island and stuff like that but it is definitely a lot better, in my mind, that 3-5 years ago as there is more night time entertainment, much better restaurants, and just nicer to walk around

 

[skier_pete]

What about this? Build it now as regular rooms. When the DHS stuff comes online and Epcot re-work is at least announced, then you announce that you are converting to a dvc, and adding a phase 2(across the lagoon from South trinidad).

The thought is to take in the revenue when it's the new "hot" property. Then convert to DVC after a bit to help cover the costs of everything.

Your overthinking it. First they aren't going to do that. DVC rooms are different (mostly) with the 1- and 2-bedrooms. They won't build them as hotel rooms first.

IDK _ you guys are starting to make me question. Is this just a resort add-on/change? @lockedoutlogic is on board, and he's been talking up Disney wanting out of the hotel business for the last 5 years.

I haven't seen this article linked yet:
http://dvcnews.com/index.php/resort...-plans-filed-for-caribbean-beach-construction

They point out that the retention pond would take out 3 buildings from Martinque - that's 9 of 33 buildings that would come down. There are supposedly 2,112 guest rooms at the resort - 64 rooms per building. You take out 9 buildings - that's 576 rooms they are planning to remove or 27% of the resort. That seems like a lot.

However, this is not dissimilar to what they did with the Poly. They took 360 rooms out of a 1,207 room resort - or 30 % of the inventory.

And I keep thinking:
Tower = fireworks view = higher point rooms = DVC.

It just doesn't make sense to me to knock down moderate rooms and replace them with more moderate rooms, even suites.

It's also about having DVC absorb some of the hotels operating costs. You use the common systems like housekeeping and groundskeeping to reduce the operating cost of your hotel by having the DVC owners share the expense of it.

Plus - this has been rumored as the next DVC after Copper Creek for like 2.5 years. I remember when Poly was still under construction that's when the

No - I opened my mind and now I've closed it again - this is all about a DVC unit. How it's going to work, whether a "separate" resort from CBR (most likely) and whether a link to the parks (arguably less likely) I just don't see it as anything but DVC.

 

[Moliphino]

So I haven't read through this whole thread and I could easily be wrong, but isn't this resort the one without elevators? If it is that one I could see this as just being a remodel/expansion that solves a shortage of rooms for rent, will be done prior to a Epcot Future World remodel that could lead to higher crowds, and fixes the no elevators at the resort problem.

Yup, no elevators at Caribbean Beach.