Disney Dining Died On 8/16/2010 RIP

[sotoalf]

I totally respect your opinion, but I just don't get it? Why does it matter what TS restaurant one dines at? If I'm eating steak, it shouldn't matter if I'm paying $28.00 at Le Cellier, or $50.00 at Yachtsmen in terms of an edible steak. Once people start believing in this theory, then you have segregation, IMHO. If it's like this with restaurants, then it will be like that with resorts too? And we all know what scary road that would lead down...

There's a big difference between Le Cellier and YS: one is in a theme park and the other in a hotel lobby. Le Cellier is bigger and less intimate. I expect higher prices and a better experience at a hotel restaurant.

 

[MomofKatie]

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Hi! Personally, in my opinion I would think most people would be better off getting a 40 percent discount vs the so called Free Dining. We ran the numbers for the Yacht Club, value season for 2 adults for 7 nights. The cost was a approximately a whopping $3039.00 with so called FREE DINING PLUS TIP vs the 40 percent discount for room only which was approximately $1400.00. Now the so called FREE DINING does include 2 park tickets. We are annual pass holders so we didn't really need the 2 day park tickets...BUT Disney did say you can put them towards a renewal of your annual pass.

If you are staying Deluxe, yes, the room discount is a far better deal than Free Dining. HOWEVER, a family staying at a Value resort saves $$ with Free Dining.

A family of 4- 2 adults and 2 children, staying a week, would save more than $300 using the Free QS plan vs the room discount. Values only get 25% off, which translates to slightly more than $20/night in Value season. For a week stay, that's only a $140 or so savings. The QS dining plan would cost them $84/night, for a total of $588. $588- $140= a pretty substantial savings.

 

[grafxgirl]

Le Cellier is in one of the parks, but it used to be considered "signature" dining. I can remember it requiring 2 TS vouchers at one point, just like the other "signature dining" restaurants they still consider to be that way.

It used to be much quieter, and offer terrific food at a reasonable value. Note I'm not saying it was cheap - it was still expensive way back when - but what I felt what we got for our money (or TS vouchers) was far more than now.

Le Cellier is going back to being a signature dining restaurant in March.

Effective March 1, 2011, dinner at Le Cellier Steakhouse will be elevated to a Signature dining experience, offering an exciting new menu that will change seasonally and an expanded wine list.

http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/dining/le-cellier-steakhouse/

 

[TDC Nala]

There's a big difference between Le Cellier and YS: one is in a theme park and the other in a hotel lobby. Le Cellier is bigger and less intimate. I expect higher prices and a better experience at a hotel restaurant.

Le Cellier is one of the smallest restaurants on property...it's certainly not bigger than Yachtsman. They just crammed more tables in. Part of the speculation surrounding the move to signature dinners there is that some of the tables will be removed to add extra space between them, which will make its capacity even smaller.

 

[grimley1968]

If you are staying Deluxe, yes, the room discount is a far better deal than Free Dining. HOWEVER, a family staying at a Value resort saves $$ with Free Dining.

A family of 4- 2 adults and 2 children, staying a week, would save more than $300 using the Free QS plan vs the room discount. Values only get 25% off, which translates to slightly more than $20/night in Value season. For a week stay, that's only a $140 or so savings. The QS dining plan would cost them $84/night, for a total of $588. $588- $140= a pretty substantial savings.

All this assumes people are planning to eat exactly as the dining plan (whichever version is offered) dictates. If people vary from the types of food offered within the DP, or even eat offsite, there's no way "free dining" is a savings for them, no matter where they're staying.

 

[daisyyy]

It's official, excellent dining experiences without getting gouged officially died at WDW today. It makes me sad that Disney now considers its dining as a throw-in commodity rather than a dining experience. Disney allowing a whole years worth of free dining (actually it's 14 months) just confirms to me that they are going to run it into the ground by cutting back on service and quality because each dollar they can save on the free dining is a dollar in their bottom line.

Over the years you have seen a decline in the quality of food and service in the WDW restaurants and most people agree that it's a result of the free dining. While I certainly don't begrudge people for booking free dining, dining at WDW is just not what it used to be years ago. Every year they have been cutting back on quality and selection. The menus are getting dumbed down so they can increase profits because the "free dining" really isn't free. Then they increase the cost of the food on the menu so it makes the "free" dining people feel like they are getting a bargain. I personally don't think that's cool, especially since I'm paying out of pocket.

In the end, I'll just be eating off property more and more. In August of 09 we ate every dinner off property and honestly it wasnt' that difficult to do. We saved a ton of money since we were a party of 8. We ate a few lunches at the parks and honestly they weren't that good.

So, I send my condolences to the Disney dining experience, may you Rest In Peace.

Ok.. so where do you go off property that is so much better, that is worth your time?

I think you're wrong... Free Dining is a great incentive for some families.. (mine included)... I'm not saying it's the best value for every family, but when you have a large family, and the cost of food is per person, but the room rate is per party... our best discount is the free dining... a 30 or 40 % off of a room charge is not as great of savings for us as saving money on 6 people eating every day.... For example... we'll stay at a moderate resort... @ 150 per night in value / free dining season..... a 30 room discount only saves us about 50 a day... (rounding everything off)... but.. where can I feed my family of 6 2 meals plus a snack for 50 a day? not on, or OFF Disney property.

 

[lustergirl]

To constantly blame "free dining" with the decline of food is lame. What about the times that there is no free dining promotion running, what excuse to people use then?

 

[Huff]

Have you compared your trip with "free" dining to your trip using a room only discount and paying for your meals instead? I'm betting you could still afford to go to Disney World and may even same money by NOT using the DDP.

For that to be true several things must be in place:
Staying at a Deluxe Resort
40% off Deluxe is available during stay
Small size party or mostly kids so dining costs are lower

Typical example:
2 adults, 2 chid (9 or under).
40% off 8 nights at WL = 6n @ $300/n + 2n @320/n = $976
DDP = 8 nights * $40 * 2adults + 8 nights * $11 * 2child = $816
Total savings using 40% off instead of free dining = $160

Now take 2 adults + 1 child (9 or under) + 1 child (10 or over)
DDP = 8 * 40 * 3 + 8 * 11 = $1048
Free dining saves $72 over using the 40% off

Moderates using room discount would not save as much as free DDP. With Values DDP easily saves far more than most any other discount available.

The 40% off Deluxes MAY save more than free dining for some parties but not always. I suppose it would easily save more if staying at a Deluxe at one of the higher end rooms rather than standard room.

 

[grimley1968]

Le Cellier is going back to being a signature dining restaurant in March.

Effective March 1, 2011, dinner at Le Cellier Steakhouse will be elevated to a Signature dining experience, offering an exciting new menu that will change seasonally and an expanded wine list.

http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/dining/le-cellier-steakhouse/

That's a small step back in the right direction, but I will have to wait and see if this will be enough to end the increasingly cattle call type experience even Le Cellier has offered recently.

Another thing that has not been mentioned in this thread (up till now) is that most dining ADR's (they're not really reservations) do not require a credit card hold, nor is there a punitive consequence for making, or double booking, ADR's and then failing to cancel ADR's properly. I would be willing to bet good money that if WDW started requiring a credit card hold on all TS ADR's, with a consequence of maybe 1 entree's worth of penalty assessed for failing to cancel within 24 hours of the ADR, a lot of places that are extremely difficult to get into now would start seeing much more availability. People with ADR's would be seated quicker because of the extra availability, and I think the overall dining experience (though not necessarily the food) would improve.

The dinner show events (and maybe the signature restaurants too - not sure) require a credit card hold, with a penalty for failing to cancel. I have never had trouble getting a reservation for HDDR (these really are reservations), like I have for non-credit card hold restaurants.

 

[Hooked On The Mouse]

I think you're wrong... Free Dining is a great incentive for some families.. (mine included)... I'm not saying it's the best value for every family, but when you have a large family, and the cost of food is per person, but the room rate is per party... our best discount is the free dining... a 30 or 40 % off of a room charge is not as great of savings for us as saving money on 6 people eating every day.... For example... we'll stay at a moderate resort... @ 150 per night in value / free dining season..... a 30 room discount only saves us about 50 a day... (rounding everything off)... but.. where can I feed my family of 6 2 meals plus a snack for 50 a day? not on, or OFF Disney property.

This is a good point. For families who are larger and are staying value or moderate, free dining IS a better deal than a room discount. As for feeding a family of 6 several meals and a snack for $50 a day, you couldnt do it at McDonalds.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I can purchase the dining plan, but it's not worth it at all in my opinion and that's because the "free" dining has killed the food selection. I mean, they could raise the price of every single item on the menu to $100 and if you're on the "free" plan you're going to think you're getting a great deal. However, if you have to travel when the "free" plan is not offered is it a good deal? No.

The actual cost of the food determines Disney's profit, not the price on the menu and that's why lowering the quality of food (and lowering their internal costs) directly effects how much Disney makes. They realize that and are more than willing to bury any culinary prowess they might have acheived in the past.

The menus are streamlined, "prix fixe", family style or buffet. It's the herd 'em in and turn 'em out mentality...gotta flip those tables. The next step will be to put Characters on rollerskates...think of the time they'd save!

Disney's "Dining Experience" just isn't what it used to be.

 

[NYDisGuy]

To constantly blame "free dining" with the decline of food is lame. What about the times that there is no free dining promotion running, what excuse to people use then?

They aren't importing new meat, chicken, fish and cm's everytime the promotion is over. Disney just makes more money off people without the promotion for the same food. The only reason for the promotion is to get more people into the restaurants during slow times.

 

[Tiger926]

To constantly blame "free dining" with the decline of food is lame. What about the times that there is no free dining promotion running, what excuse to people use then?

Your missing the point - we aren't saying that during Free Dining periods the food is changed to reflect that promo, we are saying that since the inception of the Dining Plan, and most especially since Free Dining promos have started, the entire restaurant department in Disney has taken a beating. It's not just reflective of during the Free Dining promo period; it's all of the time, across the board, no matter what time of year one visits.

Many of us believe Disney has changed their entire food model to be one that is based almost solely on a Dining Plan model. Pack them in, charge whatever you want on the menu as most guests aren't paying cash, dumb down menu options, use cheaper food ingredients and offer little to no variety at all in your restaurants.

Tiger

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

I have to say, I agree with the noticeable decline in Disney Dining. Portions have shrunk, quality has decreased and overall there isn't the fun variety there once was. There are still exceptions like Boma or California Grill where I still feel the magic, but we are tempted to try more off property places, obviously not every time, but staying on property for every meal doesn't have the allure it once had for me. This trip, for the first time, I didn't want to have a Disney breakfast each day, many days I was content with a granola bar or cereal in my room just because the food isn't as amazing as it once was. Soups are now in cups not bowls, the alcoholic shakes at Sci Fi are served in juice glasses. Some "filets" are noticeably NOT filet mignon cuts anymore. The Chocolate Wave at Coral Reef no longer has ice cream or a chocolate wave decoration accompanying it, it just lava cake. They have taken off many of the more intriguing entrees like buffalo steaks or lobster tails.

I have never used the DP but I feel like it comes down to quality vs quantity and perceived value. The DP has a high perceived value because guests see how much they are "saving" when looking at the prices of the items ordered. However, the prices stayed the same or increased while portions shrunk, reducing the ACTUAL value of the items. Furthermore, quality has also been reduced in many cases as well, reducing value even more. This is more noticeable to people who don't use the DP and locals are dining at Disney less and less.

I think it also depends if you go to Disney for the rides or the atmosphere. Personally, I can have a great Disney vacation without going on one ride. My favorite things are walking down Main Street, watching fireworks, and exploring all the resorts, lounges and restaurants. Now, if I had kids, I would focus on the rides and attractions more and less on the lounges and restaurants, so perhaps the decline wouldn't be as noticeable to me because my focus would be different.

 

[TDC Nala]

Food service standardization and streamlining at Disney (I'm also talking Disneyland, not just WDW) preceded the WDW dining plan. While Disneyland has a dining plan, it's just a voucher based prepayment system and isn't the powerhouse (somewhat) all-inclusive plan that was instituted at WDW. If the dining plan caused the standardization there wouldn't be any standardization at Disneyland, and there is. This is part of the reformation of the business model at Disney parks, which began when upper management changed (the Iger era, as opposed to the Eisner era).

The dining plan didn't cause the standardization, but it fits right into it perfectly.

 

[Tiger926]

To constantly blame "free dining" with the decline of food is lame. What about the times that there is no free dining promotion running, what excuse to people use then?

Your missing the point - we aren't saying that only during Free Dining periods is the food changed to reflect that promo, we are saying that since the inception of the Dining Plan, and most especially since Free Dining promos have started, the entire restaurant department in Disney has taken a beating. It's not just reflective of during the Free Dining promo period; it's all of the time, across the board, no matter what time of year one visits.

Many of us believe Disney has changed their entire food model to be one that is based almost solely on a Dining Plan model. Pack them in, charge whatever you want on the menu as most guests aren't paying cash, dumb down menu options, use cheaper food ingredients and offer little to no variety at all in your restaurants.

Tiger

 

[grimley1968]

To constantly blame "free dining" with the decline of food is lame. What about the times that there is no free dining promotion running, what excuse to people use then?

Have you read the many, many posts by others in this thread, including me, that discuss exactly how the dining plan, "free" or paid, damages the WDW dining experience, compared to when there was no dining plan?

I'm a little confused, but are you asking people who don't like the DDP, "free" or paid, to come up with "excuses" for their reasoning?

 

[lugnut33]

Free dining is apparently the most effective method Disney's come up with to get people to book resort stays at WDW who otherwise would either stay offsite or not plan a trip to WDW at all. It's been VERY effective in giving prospective guests the extra boost they need to pay full price for a room in the off-season. If WDW sees a need to fill empty rooms after 9/29, you can bet there will be another free dining offer covering that time.

Totally agree. What is good for Disney bottom line is not good for the dining experience.

 

[Sparkie]

I think it is the end of the dining plan for us as well.

In years past we have always done the dining plan and thought it was a good deal. With the loss of the appetizer and the included gratuity, it became a break even deal. But now it just doesnt seem to be that good of a deal.

We are new DVC members and there are no "free dining" for us. There is no discounted dining plan. What is available is a 10% discount for DVC or AP which is essentially the tax or a 20% with TiW but if you are a party greater than 6 you have an 18% gratuity added to your bill so you only save 2% on your food purchase.

I dont begrudge people who are able to take advantage of the free dining. I have been one of those people in the past. And I know for some people it is a big perk in their trip planning.

But I cant help but wonder .... with all the offers of free dining and gift cards and discount room only rates, the money has to be recovered from somewhere and with the DxDDp going for $78/per person per night of stay, I'd say they have made a start in the recovery process. As much as I love food, I just dont think I could ever eat $78 worth in one day. I think Disney is counting on this.

So for us --- I think the DDp is history.

 

[Blessed_wth_Triplets]

To the PP...please correct if I'm wrong, but I've never been able to find a better price than with free dining. Since we choose to stay in a value resort..the room only discounts aren't that big. But I agree...def. not as good of a value as when we went in 2007 and got the appetizer and gratuity free too. Also, we go in value season so the room prices are already pretty low. Basically...for our family...we are saving an around $110 a night....no discount can beat that. right?