More Dining Info from AllEars

[peel]

The only problem I have is the removal of appetizers on the basic plan. I've never been a big dessert person, and I'd much rather have the appetizer than the dessert. Now I'm not only going to have to pay the tip out of pocket, but pay extra if I want an appetizer and still get a dessert I don't really want. I hope restaurants will be flexible and swap one for the other.

 

[pilferk]

What an awesome poem! It touches on so many aspects of the "late great DDP" that is over now. The abuse, the savings the loss...... Great job! What do you do for a living??? A writer I hope!

Yeah, I love the song parody too. VERY creative.

Of course, now I've got the original stuck in my head:

Bye Bye Miss American Pie
Drove my chevy to the levy
but the levy was dry.....

 

[fakereadhed]

I really hope that if they drop the tip they make it MANDATORY. If you don't like the service you could ask for a manager and get it reduced, but otherwise folks will short the servers. It's based on the PRICE of food not what you PAID Disney and I think folks will tip based on "Disney probably values this at $25" IMHO that's wrong and if it happens expect that service for those of us on DDP will take a NOSE DIVE!

Also, I hear a lot of "I am paying enough for this trip" around here. I wonder how many guests will stiff the servers based on the fact that they feel like they are paying too much in general. Not the servers' fault, but it is an area that they have some control over.

 

[CherylA]

I haven't read though this whole thread because well, no one has that much time! But has it been discussed that according to the original link to the AllEars page there is an update at the top that says now the dining plan still will include appetizer, so the only change would be no tip included? I could live with that, do you think the price will still go down a dollar?

 

[pilferk]

I haven't read though this whole thread because well, no one has that much time! But has it been discussed that according to the original link to the AllEars page there is an update at the top that says now the dining plan still will include appetizer, so the only change would be no tip included? I could live with that, do you think the price will still go down a dollar?

Actually, that's not what the update says.

It says the DELUXE Dining plan will include appetizers (but still not tip).

Big difference.

 

[CherylA]

Actually, that's not what the update says.

It says the DELUXE Dining plan will include appetizers (but still not tip).

Big difference.

Oh yeah now I see it, boo Not that I needed the appetizer but it was nice to have. I might still do the plan. For me DDP was a too good to be true experice. I'm coming up on my 5th trip with it so I can't complain. I think the changes make it a fair price and I would still consider getting it. I do wish that the change was dropping the appetizer but leaving the tip or having a choice of appetizer or dessert, that would have been nice and much better for my waistline. I'll wait till the official announcement and then decide when it comes time for next years trip.

 

[branv]

Price elasticity.

(several of whom are almost surely going to reply to this message, seeking to place their pronouncements over the good people at Disney who actually have earned the job with their experience, expertise and professionalism.)

Sorry, completely OT, but this gave me a terrific chortle this morning. I get what you're saying, but it brings to mind how many many people over the years working at gargantuan (and not so gargantuan) corporations have "earned" their important positions with very little experience, expertise and/or professionalism And they're not so good either.

Ohhhh, how working in HR can make a person so very jaded.

 

[NMW]

But, if you're like me, I'll probably still take the deluxe plan, because on vacation I do kind of splurge...

That's exactly what I think is going to happen. I know a lot of people are saying they won't ever do the deluxe plan beacuse it's "not worth it" and maybe for those people it isn't. However, a lot of people spend money on vacations that "isn't worth it" JUST because they are on vacation. Haven't you ever bought something silly and or overpriced because it was your vacation? People pay a whole lot more for the MK view at the POLY because they are on vacation and seeing their kids faces looking at the castle at night may seem "priceless" to them. It's really not priceless though, it's about $515 a night!

Also, when you are talking about an amount of money for a Disney trip-around 5-6 K, adding maybe 1K more doesn't seem that crazy. People will think "well, if I'm going to do this trip, I'm going to do it right." It's like the first time we went to Disney will all 3 kids (2003). I was on the phone with the WDW travel co booking our BC stay with the gold plan (now called premium). When the CM asked me if I wanted to use Mears (which we had previously used) to get to/from the airport or get a limo. She said that she always reccomends a limo for families with young kids. I think it added like $250 or something like that. I told her to hold on and asked DH what he wanted to do. He looked at me like I was crazy and asked why I would worry about $250 extra when the entire trip cost as much as it did already. I thought he's right. What the heck, lets get the limo. It didn't make sense to scrimp on that aspect of the trip when we were already paying so much.

It might not make sense to some people that others pay deluxe price for a hotel (BC/YC) when they can pay budget price (POP) and still be in WDW. That's why I never respond to threads like "Is it worth it to stay deluxe?" "Is club level worth it?" "Is the DDP worth it?" "Worth it" is a very subjective thing and I'm sure there are lots of people who will say "The Deluxe DDP is only about $30 more per day than the basic one, so it's worth it."

 

[Cinderumbrella]

That's exactly what I think is going to happen. I know a lot of people are saying they won't ever do the deluxe plan beacuse it's "not worth it" and maybe for those people it isn't. However, a lot of people spend money on vacations that "isn't worth it" JUST because they are on vacation. Haven't you ever bought something silly and or overpriced because it was your vacation? People pay a whole lot more for the MK view at the POLY because they are on vacation and seeing their kids faces looking at the castle at night may seem "priceless" to them. It's really not priceless though, it's about $515 a night!

Also, when you are talking about an amount of money for a Disney trip-around 5-6 K, adding maybe 1K more doesn't seem that crazy. People will think "well, if I'm going to do this trip, I'm going to do it right." It's like the first time we went to Disney will all 3 kids (2003). I was on the phone with the WDW travel co booking our BC stay with the gold plan (now called premium). When the CM asked me if I wanted to use Mears (which we had previously used) to get to/from the airport or get a limo. She said that she always reccomends a limo for families with young kids. I think it added like $250 or something like that. I told her to hold on and asked DH what he wanted to do. He looked at me like I was crazy and asked why I would worry about $250 extra when the entire trip cost as much as it did already. I thought he's right. What the heck, lets get the limo. It didn't make sense to scrimp on that aspect of the trip when we were already paying so much.

It might not make sense to some people that others pay deluxe price for a hotel (BC/YC) when they can pay budget price (POP) and still be in WDW. That's why I never respond to threads like "Is it worth it to stay deluxe?" "Is club level worth it?" "Is the DDP worth it?" "Worth it" is a very subjective thing and I'm sure there are lots of people who will say "The Deluxe DDP is on about $30 more per day, so it's worth it."

 

[Colleen27]

And on the flip side (and I'm just playing devils advocate,here), you have those that wonder how many servers will get "stiffed" because people will think (or pretend to think) that tips are included.

Which will REALLY make DDP diners get WORSE service because servers will view them as riskier "2nd class citizens".

I don't know if I agree with that viewpoint, but I have read it posted in this discussion.

I don't really get that line of thinking. I think this will put DDP guests on par with guests without it - they might tip, they might not. They might be unused to the custom or they might be thinking they've already spent too much or they might just be hurried and forget. I don't think DDP guests will be any more likely than others to tip or not to tip, and I assume servers won't be shy about pointing out that the tip is no longer included in the plan.

 

[Colleen27]

I really hope that if they drop the tip they make it MANDATORY. If you don't like the service you could ask for a manager and get it reduced, but otherwise folks will short the servers. It's based on the PRICE of food not what you PAID Disney and I think folks will tip based on "Disney probably values this at $25" IMHO that's wrong and if it happens expect that service for those of us on DDP will take a NOSE DIVE!

I *hate* automatic tips. DH & I have both worked in tipped professions and we tip well, but I feel very strongly that the tip should be left to the customer's discretion. There is no good reason, IMO, to add in an automatic tip and then tell customers to take it up with management if they experience lousy service. All that does is further inconvenience customers who have already been inconvenienced by poor service, and servers quickly come to realize that only a small percentage of guests will bother with the hassle of tracking down a manager to quibble over the tip.

If I have crappy service at a Disney restaurant, the last thing I want to do is waste *more* park time tracking down a manager who may or may not be available, on break, busy with something else, to have the tip removed or lowered.

 

[pilferk]

I don't really get that line of thinking. I think this will put DDP guests on par with guests without it - they might tip, they might not. They might be unused to the custom or they might be thinking they've already spent too much or they might just be hurried and forget. I don't think DDP guests will be any more likely than others to tip or not to tip, and I assume servers won't be shy about pointing out that the tip is no longer included in the plan.

My personal opinion is in line with yours. There are people who don't tip from both sides of the "aisle" (OOP and DDP). I mean, I can see that DDP might give people an EXCUSE not to tip, but I'm not sure a great case can be made that a higher % of DDP users won't tip over OOP guests.

Yes, some will not tip. Some will forget (short term, I'd guess), honestly. Some will use the prepaid nature as an excuse. But I don't think ENOUGH DDP users will do it that they'll stand out in the servers mind based solely on that.

Now, whether the servers will PERCIEVE that more DDP users are not tipping (because they'll make the same connections people have put forth here) or not...that I don't know. The "sting" of losing the automatic tip might precipitate that, too. I know if I go, and we do the DDP, I'll do my best to "represent" with a 20% tip. I would HOPE the servers adopt the same attitude and treat each patron as an individual, not a homogonized group stereotyped as lousy tippers.

 

[CarolA]

There are posters on this board who have posted

"I don't tip at Disney because I never see those servers again"

"I don't tip at Disney because I can't afford resturant XYZ if I add in the tip"

And then there was my favorite, overheard at the Rose and Crown. "You don't tip a resturants in the UK so there's no need to tip" Well, that is partially correct, a service charge is often included in Europe but at last check the Rose and Crown was in FLORIDA!!!!!

Now, if that's the way they act now.... They are going to give $2 on the "discount" meal price. Sorry, IMHO that's not fair to the server. And it's not just one or two poeple. There are threads and threads on this board alone where folks try to "pull stuff over on Disney" to get a cheaper vacation. Why should the server tip be any different then the current transportation board where they are "sneaking" Grandma into the resort to avoid the extra adult charge? Or the "can I use the Six Flags mug" threads? Or the HUNDREDS of threads on "how to use your kids meals for adults" back before Disney closed that loophole??? Sorry, based on my reading of the DIS..... the servers will be left holding the bag if the tips not included.

 

[pilferk]

There are posters on this board who have posted

"I don't tip at Disney because I never see those servers again"

"I don't tip at Disney because I can't afford resturant XYZ if I add in the tip"

And then there was my favorite, overheard at the Rose and Crown. "You don't tip a resturants in the UK so there's no need to tip" Well, that is partially correct, a service charge is often included in Europe but at last check the Rose and Crown was in FLORIDA!!!!!

Now, if that's the way they act now.... They are going to give $2 on the "discount" meal price. Sorry, IMHO that's not fair to the server. And it's not just one or two poeple. There are threads and threads on this board alone where folks try to "pull stuff over on Disney" to get a cheaper vacation. Why should the server tip be any different then the current transportation board where they are "sneaking" Grandma into the resort to avoid the extra adult charge? Or the "can I use the Six Flags mug" threads? Or the HUNDREDS of threads on "how to use your kids meals for adults" back before Disney closed that loophole??? Sorry, based on my reading of the DIS..... the servers will be left holding the bag if the tips not included.

I guess the question is: would they tip anywy? OOP or DDP?

And do they make up ENOUGH of a % of the overall DDP customers to actually be noticed as representative as a population, or just random....(cough) customers....(cough) who aren't tipping?

Also, I'm not sure the Dis postings are representative of the DDP customers actions, as a whole. I'm just not. If we look at strictly DIS posts, we can make all sorts of assumptions about things...many of which we know aren't true. Yes, it's a cross section. But just by the virtue that they post here, and are such big Disney fans, makes me suspect their actions, observations, etc aren't all "typical". Add to that you ONLY see "odd" type posts (not everyone who simply tips as expected posts that they do it), and I'm not sure the anecdotal postings are much in the way of evidence.

Again, I can see your point....my personal opinion is that, DDP or not, some will tip, some won't. I don't think (and I certainly allow I could be wrong) that there will be MORE DDP guests not tipping than there are OOP guests. More than before (obviously, because the tip was included), but more overall? I don't know.

Though, as I said, I wouldn't be shocked to see that perception become prevalent amongst the servers. But perception is a tricky thing to predict....could go either way.

 

[bicker]

Sorry, completely OT, but this gave me a terrific chortle this morning. I get what you're saying

And the real issue is that for something this important, lots of people were involved in the decision-making. If Disney was filled with managers who were all inexperienced, inexpert, and unprofessional, then we'd all be idiots for spending all this time and effort discussing their theme parks every day.

 

[Nancyg56]

My personal opinion is in line with yours. There are people who don't tip from both sides of the "aisle" (OOP and DDP). I mean, I can see that DDP might give people an EXCUSE not to tip, but I'm not sure a great case can be made that a higher % of DDP users won't tip over OOP guests.

Yes, some will not tip. Some will forget (short term, I'd guess), honestly. Some will use the prepaid nature as an excuse. But I don't think ENOUGH DDP users will do it that they'll stand out in the servers mind based solely on that.

Now, whether the servers will PERCIEVE that more DDP users are not tipping (because they'll make the same connections people have put forth here) or not...that I don't know. The "sting" of losing the automatic tip might precipitate that, too. I know if I go, and we do the DDP, I'll do my best to "represent" with a 20% tip. I would HOPE the servers adopt the same attitude and treat each patron as an individual, not a homogonized group stereotyped as lousy tippers.

Have you ever seen the "Entertainment Book" or what ever it is called. If you take advantage of the savings for their dining you agree to allow the gratuity to be placed on the check. I used to work for my DH cousin and he accepted the coupon, but I did not add the tip on. Now our restaurant was moderately priced. We got a lot of people who only ordered the entrees, no appetizer, no cocktail, no beverage and no dessert. They paid for one meal, got one meal free and a good amount of those people did not tip on the amount the bill would have been.

A lot of people were bargain shopping in restaurants, getting decent meals and keeping the price down. They were not regulars so they had no issues about us "knowing" them,and they were clear that they were keeping their bill down, I was just the means to the food, not the person who was enhancing their dining experience.

I am not saying that everyone does this or that all of my customers who used the coupon did this, but there were enough that I was not always happy when my section filled with these customers, and my perception to this day is that my tips were negatively impacted.

FF to me going to an area restaurant with my Sis IL and taking out my coupon. My Dh and I frequent this place a lot, he just won't go with the coupon. The server just about ignored us through out the entire meal, it was kind of busy. He did not even bother to ask if we wanted dessert, coffee or another glass of wine. I think he was used to getting told "No thanks" from the majority of coupon diners. He did beat feet when we got up, cleared out our things and went down the stairs. I complained about the level of service to the manager, but that did not improve the quality of the experience, just brought attention to the management. The manager said that this man was usually very attentive, I believed him as the server was giving a lot of service to the people around us.

If there a too many "bargain" shoppers buying the plan, stretching it out and taking tables without compensating the servers appropriately the level of service will go down. Then customers will complain, and rightly so. Then the domino effect will occur. Disney used to pay the gratuity. This did not come out of our pocket and yet there were a lot of people who resented an automatic tip. Now the plan is ever so slightly decreased in price, the value is decreased and the gratuity is not included. If there are too many people not compensating servers there will be complaints....not from customer....from servers who do not want to take these customers. I foresee the tip being adding on the final bill. Oh sure, Disney will let this go a year, but I can imagine that the purchaser of the DDP will be agreeing to the automatic gratuity down the line so in fact while "we" got what we wished for, we may end up paying for it after all. There is no "free" lunch. Ever.

 

[luvchip]

I find it strange that Disney last year was so much about having healthier eating at the parks and just an update the other day about removing the trans fats from the items on the menus. And then with the "proposed" changes to the ddp would only allow dessert with every meal. To me if they want to promote healthier eating at the parks then a salad/soup would make better sense instead of pushing desserts for ts meal. I know we are not big sweet eaters and I would much prefer a salad with my meal. So it would be nice if they would give the option of either appetizer or dessert on the new proposed ddp.

 

[pilferk]

Have you ever seen the "Entertainment Book" or what ever it is called. If you take advantage of the savings for their dining you agree to allow the gratuity to be placed on the check. I used to work for my DH cousin and he accepted the coupon, but I did not add the tip on. Now our restaurant was moderately priced. We got a lot of people who only ordered the entrees, no appetizer, no cocktail, no beverage and no dessert. They paid for one meal, got one meal free and a good amount of those people did not tip on the amount the bill would have been.

A lot of people were bargain shopping in restaurants, getting decent meals and keeping the price down. They were not regulars so they had no issues about us "knowing" them,and they were clear that they were keeping their bill down, I was just the means to the food, not the person who was enhancing their dining experience.

I am not saying that everyone does this or that all of my customers who used the coupon did this, but there were enough that I was not always happy when my section filled with these customers, and my perception to this day is that my tips were negatively impacted.

FF to me going to an area restaurant with my Sis IL and taking out my coupon. My Dh and I frequent this place a lot, he just won't go with the coupon. The server just about ignored us through out the entire meal, it was kind of busy. He did not even bother to ask if we wanted dessert, coffee or another glass of wine. I think he was used to getting told "No thanks" from the majority of coupon diners. He did beat feet when we got up, cleared out our things and went down the stairs. I complained about the level of service to the manager, but that did not improve the quality of the experience, just brought attention to the management. The manager said that this man was usually very attentive, I believed him as the server was giving a lot of service to the people around us.

If there a too many "bargain" shoppers buying the plan, stretching it out and taking tables without compensating the servers appropriately the level of service will go down. Then customers will complain, and rightly so. Then the domino effect will occur. Disney used to pay the gratuity. This did not come out of our pocket and yet there were a lot of people who resented an automatic tip. Now the plan is ever so slightly decreased in price, the value is decreased and the gratuity is not included. If there are too many people not compensating servers there will be complaints....not from customer....from servers who do not want to take these customers. I foresee the tip being adding on the final bill. Oh sure, Disney will let this go a year, but I can imagine that the purchaser of the DDP will be agreeing to the automatic gratuity down the line so in fact while "we" got what we wished for, we may end up paying for it after all. There is no "free" lunch. Ever.

I do use the entertainment book (our local HS sells them every year as a fund raiser...as an aside, I wonder if we're going to some of the same places...I'm a fellow nutmegger!).

I've never, ever had sub par service when using our book. I don't think anywhere we've ever eaten has added an auto tip for using it.

So...one anecdotal to another. Neither is really "proof".

Again, my completely unfounded, unproveable suspicion is that you won't see any more DDP customers "forget" to tip than OOP customers do. Not on a large enough scale to make much of a difference. Now, will the DDP customers be more memorabel? Leave more of an impression? Impact server perception That, I have no firm opinion on...just don't know.

It's my opinion based on what I've seen (just as yours is based on what you've seen). As I said previously, I can see the point. I just don't agree...which, again, I can certainly accept and agree to disagree. That's largely why I pointed it out in the first place, even though I don't agree: I think it's a valid point, even if I DON'T agree with it.

In the end, we'll have to wait and see. I'm sure if there is large scale revolt from the servers, we'll see Disney do something. The thing is: The union contract doesn't force them to do anything...so ultimately it's up to them.

 

[bicker]

To me if they want to promote healthier eating at the parks then a salad/soup would make better sense instead of pushing desserts for ts meal.

Can you imagine the uproar if they limited appetizers to just salad or soup??? I think that's an untenable suggestion.

Regardless, I suspect Lewis is correct: The reason to offer dessert instead of appetizer with the meal is to address the abuse by a small number of guests who would use an appetizer and an entree being included as a stronger invitation to split the meal between two diners.

 

[IcePrincess467]

When does the 2008 come into effect?? I might be going in December now to get the 2007 prices and plan.