More Dining Info from AllEars

[Cruiser1969]

More info to ponder . . .

http://www.allearsnet.com/blogs/debwills/2007/07/2008_dining_plan_changes_1.html

 

[Catrinabeach]

Well that would be enough to make me decide to not use the Dining Plan for future visits. I'm very glad we have it booked for our Dec trip but that will probably be the last time we use it if those changes are the real deal.

 

[klj27]

Do you think the gratuity will still be included for HDDR?

 

[deide71]

Yep... It looks like the dining plan will loose a lot of its value with the new changes.

What a bummer!

 

[Colleen27]

Am I the only one happy with those changes? The deluxe plan, if it is implemented at the price and specifics quoted in that rumor, would be a great "consolation prize" if our Dec trip does end up getting pushed back to spring. I'd have great fun planning a trip with a stop at every Disney signature restaurant!

 

[disneyjunkie]

Am I the only one happy with those changes? The deluxe plan, if it is implemented at the price and specifics quoted in that rumor, would be a great "consolation prize" if our Dec trip does end up getting pushed back to spring. I'd have great fun planning a trip with a stop at every Disney signature restaurant!

Add me to the happy list. I have my eyes on the deluxe plan for our Easter trip.

 

[bicker]

The Disney Dining Plan has been underpriced since it was introduced. As much as people hate the idea, when something is underpriced, that's a problem for a business. Their job is to price things correctly, not underprice things. The removal of the gratuity and appetizer brings the plan back into the realm of appropriate pricing, and the dollar off per day keeps it still a decent deal for many guests.

 

[pilferk]

The Disney Dining Plan has been underpriced since it was introduced. As much as people hate the idea, when something is underpriced, that's a problem for a business. Their job is to price things correctly, not underprice things. The removal of the gratuity and appetizer brings the plan back into the realm of appropriate pricing, and the dollar off per day keeps it still a decent deal for many guests.

The deluxe plan, as outlined, even looks like a good deal.

I'm just STARTING to crunch the numbers, but....doing 2 TS and 1 CS per day, with the snacks, it looks like you'd be about breaking even or coming out JUST ahead (depending on your choices), I think. Less TS (average) per day and I think you'd be "losing".

Mara Breakfast: 7.00-ish with tax (do they offer "dessert" with a CS breakfast? Muffin or something? I'm not counting that in if they do.)

Liberty Tree Tavern Lunch: $24-ish with tax.

Boma's dinner: $28-ish with tax.

Snacks: $9-ish with tax.

That's $68.

Now, go a bit more expensive for lunch (Le Cellier, for example, at 33-ish after tax, for lunch) and dinner (Kona Cafe for $35-ish after tax), and you're saving about $15 per person, per day. Not GREAT, but not bad either.

I'm sure there are more scenarios to really make it a better savings, too. The above is just a REAL quick break down and preliminary analysis. My wife and I are going to sit down and crunch numbers, just to see if this "rumored" option makes any sense for us at all....or if DDE wins out, etc.

 

[Uncleromulus]

But still-dosen't the guest have to add an additional 18% now, at EACH TS meal??

 

[clombardi]

Well, I'm not surprised by this but a litle bummed. I don't blame Disney because it really was quite a deal they were offering and was probably a big money loser.

My concern about the deluxe plan, and the reason we probably won't ever use it, is that it is a tremendous amount of food. I cannot imagine 2 TS per day. I also don't really want to do all that planning! The current plan required me to do just the right amount of planning for ADRs.

I'm sure the new plan will be great for many families though, so I hope people enjoy it!

 

[wwaleye]

I'm pretty sure most of you will disagree, because most of you will still tip the 18%, but, I would imagine the servers being upset about the gratuity. I think there will be a significant decline in tips. JMO!!

 

[pilferk]

But still-dosen't the guest have to add an additional 18% now, at EACH TS meal??

Yes.

Which means it's NOT as good of a deal as this years version of the DDP, in that respect, but probably (and I'm still working numbers) a better deal than paying OOP. Now, instead of comparing meal+tax+tip, we're only looking at meal+tax. That's what I used in the above numbers.

Yes, it's a "cost increase" to the guests using DDP....so it's likely a "good deal" instead of an "OMG no-brainer unbelievable how do they do that deal".

 

[Disneyhappy]

The Disney Dining Plan has been underpriced since it was introduced. As much as people hate the idea, when something is underpriced, that's a problem for a business. Their job is to price things correctly, not underprice things. The removal of the gratuity and appetizer brings the plan back into the realm of appropriate pricing, and the dollar off per day keeps it still a decent deal for many guests.

I totally agree the plan was under priced! As a result, Disney was forced to start compromising the quality and variety of their offerings at their table and counter service locations. While the changes they made went unnoticed by the infrequent guest, many regular WDW patrons have noticed the difference and were not happy about the downgrading of the dining (this does not include the Signature restaurants). The infrequent guests thought the plan was great and why shouldn't they? It was an incredible deal for the price and they had nothing to compare it to. I know some frequent guests don’t notice a difference but the number of posts on this issue compared to 1-3 years ago is enough that WDW should give the concern credibility. My family has paid for the plan on several trips, the next one this coming Saturday. We have now started to use the TS credits for Signature meals (2 credits) and then go offsite for some table service meals for the other open nights. The new plan will no longer be a "deal" for us so we will go back to our regular dining patterns but keep those offsite places on our radar as we now have some favorites. The Deluxe plan looks great but we could never eat that much food! We may consider the Wine Plan. Yummy!!! I personally would miss the tip not being included. Not because of the money, but because of the convenience. It is one of the reasons we like all inclusive resorts and cruises (paying tip at one time at end of trip versus at each meal).

I am happy that they made these changes and hopefully Disney will start giving back some of the quality and variety that was taken away as a result of the implementation of the current DDP. This is just my opinion and I have enjoyed reading other opinions (although mine is the only one that counts! )

 

[pilferk]

Well, I'm not surprised by this but a litle bummed. I don't blame Disney because it really was quite a deal they were offering and was probably a big money loser.

My concern about the deluxe plan, and the reason we probably won't ever use it, is that it is a tremendous amount of food. I cannot imagine 2 TS per day. I also don't really want to do all that planning! The current plan required me to do just the right amount of planning for ADRs.

I'm sure the new plan will be great for many families though, so I hope people enjoy it!

I think your opinion is one that's going to be pretty prevalent. That's one of my biggest concerns with that plan, too: Is it too much food, and too much sitting. I'm balancing that idea with the idea that with young kids, a nice air conditioned, sit down, recharge lunch every day might be a GOOD thing. Then again, it might just cut into touring time, and cause "issues" with taking an afternoon pool/nap break. I just don't know

First up, my wife and I will run the numbers and see which plan makes the most sense for us (DDP, DDDP, DDE) financially. Then we'll weigh that with which plan makes the most sense for our vacation style. I like the IDEA of the DDDP, but logistically, I'm still not sure. Intrigued, considering, but not sure.

With the changes, I think people are going to have to "invest" a bit more to see if DDP or Deluxe DDP, is really right for them. I think you'll have a LOT more people (at least during non-free dining times, if free dining comes back) deciding they're better off without any sort of dining plan. Heck, that may be one of the things Disney is going for here...who knows. And it's going to actually take a bit of "work" to determine if your dining pattern makes a plan "worthwhile" or not.

DDP was a no-brainer, almost. Assuming the rumors on allears are true, it's now more of a situational consideration. It MAY work for you, it may not. It may work this trip, but not next.

 

[IMDORY]

I'm crunching some numbers and I can't see how the deluxe plan would be worth it to me.

Example:
1TS Breakfast-SuperCaliBreakfast-18.99 + 6% tax=about $20
2TS Artist Point (Entree/Desert/Non-alcoholic bev+tax) =about $51
2 Snacks=$4 each=$8

Total=$79 Deluxe Dining plan costs $70 per day=LOOKS like you save $9 BUT remember-you now have to pay the tip-so on $71 worth of TS food would be an 18% tip of about $13 for this particular day. If you subtract the $13 additional OOP for tip from the $9 saved-you're actually BEHIND $4. I guess that would go toward your $12 value resort refillable mug expense? We never get the mug anyway-so that is an expensive mug at around $4/day that we would hardly use. And you didn't get an appetizer at dinner-which will be another OOP expense for us, as we would certainly get appetizers at Signature resturants. We also generally tip 20% at restaurants so it would actually be a little more than that for us.

We don't usually have lunch at WDW-so this would be a good example for my family.

Now, permit me to step up onto my soap box

I'd be happy to see these changes come and pay for my meals w/o a dining plan if it would mean the return of Pre DDP quality in the TS restaurants. When we went in Dec. 2004 it was JUST before DDP started-restaurants were great as they had always been. On our Dec. 2006 trip we didn't do the dining plan (we had a room only reservation with a CM rate) We were so shocked at the impact DDP had on the quality of the 1 TS restaurants-the food had gone WAY downhill since our last trip pre-DDP days- Coral Reef, O'hanna, Cape May...If we had been on the dining plan, I guess it would have been ok b/c I guess we would at least have spent less-but to pay regular prices OOP for those meals? We decided that if we ever went again we would stick to Signature restaurants, where the quality was still good, and a few of the TS restaurants that were still ok (LeCellier, WCC). I don't mind spending $$ on a vacation for food as long at it is good.

I'm now stepping down.

 

[GoofyBaseballMom26]

I think the servers will lose out too. A lot of people don't tip 18% and some don't tip at all....

We had already decided not to do the dining plan again. Too much food even though my family are big eaters. I cannot imagine being able to utilize the deluxe plan. All you would be doing is eating! Imagine the headache of planning and "trying to get the most for your money" with 2 ts a day. I've always chosen the restaurants that I like and not spent time worrying about the $$ part of it but the deluxe plan is rather expensive IMO.

This doesn't bother me at all. Maybe the restaurants will slow down enough that we can go back to "winging it" more and not have to worry about ADRs for each TS.

 

[JimMIA]

The Disney Dining Plan has been underpriced since it was introduced. As much as people hate the idea, when something is underpriced, that's a problem for a business. Their job is to price things correctly, not underprice things. The removal of the gratuity and appetizer brings the plan back into the realm of appropriate pricing, and the dollar off per day keeps it still a decent deal for many guests.

I don't really care what Disney's cost structure is, or whether the plan is overpriced, underpriced, or fairly priced. All I care about is whether it makes sense to use DDP for my family.

With these predicted changes, DDP does not makes sense for us. It gives us somewhat less value than before for about $25 per day more for our family, and that makes it unattractive for us. (We don't do the fairytale comparisons of DDP cost to menu prices; we use real numbers.) So we'll skip DDP and eat all of our meals offsite except one character meal per trip.

That said, I'm sure DDP will still make sense for families with several children <10.

Neither the deluxe plan (also without appys, presumably) nor the wine plan make any sense to us. We don't go to Orlando to eat, and if we did, we certainly would not limit ourselves to Disney restaurants.

 

[pilferk]

I'm crunching some numbers and I can't see how the deluxe plan would be worth it to me.

Example:
1TS Breakfast-SuperCaliBreakfast-18.99 + 6% tax=about $20
2TS Artist Point (Entree/Desert/Non-alcoholic bev+tax) =about $51
2 Snacks=$4 each=$8

Total=$79 Deluxe Dining plan costs $70 per day=LOOKS like you save $9 BUT remember-you now have to pay the tip-so on $71 worth of TS food would be an 18% tip of about $13 for this particular day. If you subtract the $13 additional OOP for tip from the $9 saved-you're actually BEHIND $4.

You're comparing apples to oranges here. You're mixing up comparisons of the "rumored" DDDP, paying OOP, and the "current" DDP.

What would you pay for that meal agenda OOP? 92.22 ($20 + 51 + 8 + 13)

On the DDP: 82.99 (69.99 + 13)

You saved $10.

Make more sense?

I guess that would go toward your $12 value resort refillable mug expense? We never get the mug anyway-so that is an expensive mug at around $4/day that we would hardly use. And you didn't get an appetizer at dinner-which will be another OOP expense for us, as we would certainly get appetizers at Signature resturants. We also generally tip 20% at restaurants so it would actually be a little more than that for us.

Again, no...the rumored changes don't make it as good of a deal as it was in '07. BUT, compared to your OOP expense, it looks like you can realize some savings.

We don't usually have lunch at WDW-so this would be a good example for my family.

Now, permit me to step up onto my soap box

I'd be happy to see these changes come and pay for my meals w/o a dining plan if it would mean the return of Pre DDP quality in the TS restaurants. When we went in Dec. 2004 it was JUST before DDP started-restaurants were great as they had always been. On our Dec. 2006 trip we didn't do the dining plan (we had a room only reservation with a CM rate) We were so shocked at the impact DDP had on the quality of the 1 TS restaurants-the food had gone WAY downhill since our last trip pre-DDP days- Coral Reef, O'hanna, Cape May...If we had been on the dining plan, I guess it would have been ok b/c I guess we would at least have spent less-but to pay regular prices OOP for those meals? We decided that if we ever went again we would stick to Signature restaurants, where the quality was still good, and a few of the TS restaurants that were still ok (LeCellier, WCC). I don't mind spending $$ on a vacation for food as long at it is good.

I'm now stepping down.

IF DDP HAS had the effect on quality (and it's not just Disney cost cutting, in general), I expect this COULD have an effect. I mean, surely everyone can agree that THIS rumored plan is more profitable (however profitable, or not, the old plan was) than the current plan. Whether that means Disney reinvests and ups quality is another question. They certainly have that option...

 

[momoftwins]

I suppose for the adult price one could still make it work. As so many of us with kids have said before, I have 11 yr old twins that barely - I mean barely eat anything. I cannot imagine paying $68 per day for them.


I wish they would come up with something for the "junior", or just let the parents buy the plan and let us pay for the child.

 

[Lewisc]

Dining plan guests should expect a discount in exchange for pre-paying and an additional discount in exchange for a quantity purchase. DDP guests are basically committing to eating most meals at WDW restaurants. DDP guests, other then DVC, may also be paying more for theme park tickets and may even be forfeiting some room discounts.

Each guest may have a different criteria but I wouldn't even consider the plan unless I expected to save at least 25%. I may wait for your new spreadsheet, assuming you share it, but I think guests who use credits at character meals and any two credit meal will be lucky to break even. I'm not even sure I'll save my 25% at many of the a la carte restaurants.

The more expensive plan actually looks interesting.

The Disney Dining Plan has been underpriced since it was introduced. As much as people hate the idea, when something is underpriced, that's a problem for a business. Their job is to price things correctly, not underprice things. The removal of the gratuity and appetizer brings the plan back into the realm of appropriate pricing, and the dollar off per day keeps it still a decent deal for many guests.