Is this how "bashing" first begins?

[Dean]

a thread with bashing in the title that went from a discusion about bashing to bashing and now back to a civil discusion....
I think a lot of the preception of the resorts come from what people read here at least for discusion here and not based on a stay.
I see a lot of posts of people who love BCV who never stayed there as well as a lot of posts about people who hate SSR that never stayed there
I just do not understand that.......

I think one needs information to make any decisions, I made this point on a similar thread as few months ago dealing with DVC HH vs other HH resorts and areas. But that's not to say that one truly needs to stay at a resort to form an opinion or for that opinion to be a fair one. While I've stayed at SSR, it did nothing to change my opinion as that opinion was based on a lot of information including DVC stays, time spent at the resort, multiple room visits, non DVC stays, off property visits and many other non Orlando Timeshare stays.

I remember someone who posted recently. The jist of the OP was that SSR was their favorite resort and not only had they not stayed there, they hadn't seen any DVC resorts. Once that person actually gets real information, they will have a better understanding of what they really prefer and don't. Maybe it'll be the same, maybe it won't.

 

[Sammie]

My point (question) really was that I suspect many people would not independently pick up on the theming at some of the resorts, possibly even all except WL and AKL.

I would agree with that. I do think that the new rooms at the WL; not the villas do not reflect the theme as much as the orginial ones. I was not impressed with the new decor. I hope they stick to the theme when and if they redo the villas.

As far as overall theme throughout the entire resort I think the moderates do it best.

 

[Pootle]

But that's not to say that one truly needs to stay at a resort to form an opinion or for that opinion to be a fair one ..............

Oh how I do agree with this statement (but then, I usually agree with Dean in any case)

I love to walk around the other resorts, DVC and non, and so I've visited, for example, SSR many times at various times of the day and night and have enjoyed walking around. I've also visited the models. I doubt that staying there would change my view that it's not for me (or any others where I don't own for that matter).

I also felt the same way about WL (not villas), but because my friend wanted to stay there for a few nights, we did (again, have visited and eaten there many, many times). Guess what? I felt exactly the same as I expected to - dark rooms and not for me. She, OTOH, just loved it.

I can never understand why people state that you should actually stay at a place before you can have an opinion. Information is the key.

 

[Anthony1971]

I can never understand why people state that you should actually stay at a place before you can have an opinion. Information is the key.

To walk around and view is exactly that you may from an opinion but as Dean said ot may not be fair staying there may not change your opinion but not staying somewhere does not give you the time to actually see the entire resort get use to it and enjoy or not the amenities offrered.
To me this statement makes no sense if it did why not buy a Hyundai suv rather than a Range Rover or the Hyundai sedan rather than a Lexus both the hyundais out performed.. offer the same options style interior exterior the hyundai has a superior warranty and a price that is 10,000 plus less and does get a good rating from consumer reports and edmunds and JD powers this is based on information.....the hyundai are certianly attractive in looks so if you were shpping for one of these cars wich would you buy and that would include price not being the objective?

 

[3DisneyKids]

I think in the case of WDW, you really DO need to stay at the resorts in order to form a complete opinion.

Let's take BWV, for example. Sure, you can walk around, experience the Boardwalk, etc. However, one of the BIGGEST perks of BWV is the location. You can WALK to Epcot. The opportunity to just walk out the door of your resort and be at the International Gateway in a few minutes is HUGE--and you can't appreciate how wonderful that is unless you are staying there.

This being said, BWV is still not my preferred resort. I really thought that it would be. Prior to our recent visit to BWV, I thought I would come away having done an add-on there, and that is not the case. While I loved the proximity to Epcot and enjoyed the nightlife of the Boardwalk, staying there made me realize that I do not need it as one of my home resorts. I'll definitely stay again...had a lovely time...but needed to stay there to get the full impression.

 

[Anthony1971]

This being said, BWV is still not my preferred resort. While I loved the proximity to Epcot and enjoyed the nightlife of the Boardwalk, staying there made me realize that I do not need it as one of my home resorts. I'll definitely stay again...had a lovely time...but needed to stay there to get the full impression.

I feel the same way it is a great resort for.... for me I just did not like the rooms and the feel in general inside. I would stay there again if I needed to be close to EPCOT.

 

[Dean]

I think in the case of WDW, you really DO need to stay at the resorts in order to form a complete opinion.

I agree it's best for most to get more information. I'd also suggest that many people that stay at a resort don't have enough underlying information to form an INFORMED opinion for comparison. The key is having an adequate base, knowing what to look for and actually walking through the resort sufficiently to gather information. I'd suspect I can gather more info in an hour looking around most resorts than most people staying for a week. That's not to say I'd get the same information and there really are certain things you can't experience without time such as how loud it tends to be late at night in the units or how does the bus system work, even how the restaurants work over time. But then again many guests staying at a resort don't get all that information and they often don't get a lot of info I'd pick up on in just 5 minutes.

Ones personal preferences are often emotional and based on feel and comfort. I make every effort to evaluate things objectively and compare the good and bad to my knowledge base which I think is better than most here when it comes to timeshares in general. And I try to sort out my emotional preferences from the objective thoughts as much as I can.

 

[BroganMc]

I agree it's best for most to get more information. I'd also suggest that many people that stay at a resort don't have enough underlying information to form an INFORMED opinion for comparison. The key is having an adequate base, knowing what to look for and actually walking through the resort sufficiently to gather information. I'd suspect I can gather more info in an hour looking around most resorts than most people staying for a week.

What sort of things are you divining about a resort that the rest of us don't see?

 

[BroganMc]

Let's take BWV, for example. Sure, you can walk around, experience the Boardwalk, etc. However, one of the BIGGEST perks of BWV is the location. You can WALK to Epcot. The opportunity to just walk out the door of your resort and be at the International Gateway in a few minutes is HUGE--and you can't appreciate how wonderful that is unless you are staying there.

What if you have repeatedly visited the Boardwalk in the morning and then strolled into EPCOT for the rest of the day.

In the several years since I discovered the Boardwalk, I've had the opportunity to do just that. I've started at Beach Club (the shortest walk to International Gateway) and I've started at Boardwalk. I've taken the ferry to IGW and the ferry from MGM. I've even walked all around the loop and down the looong hallways of BWV. I've had breakfast at the Boardwalk Bakery, ice cream after fireworks, sat on the Boardwalk eating pizza watching fireworks, seen the performers, and sat for near an hour watching that Carousel on the circle sofa in the BWV lobby. (I've even seen what lurks beneath those cushions as I chatted to the guy changing them out. Let's just say GROSS!)

The only experience I haven't had is trying to sleep when the late night activities go on outside. Admittedly that may have skewed my opinion a bit since I just can't imagine getting the same peace & quiet as I do elsewhere.

 

[3DisneyKids]

I agree it's best for most to get more information. I'd also suggest that many people that stay at a resort don't have enough underlying information to form an INFORMED opinion for comparison. The key is having an adequate base, knowing what to look for and actually walking through the resort sufficiently to gather information. I'd suspect I can gather more info in an hour looking around most resorts than most people staying for a week. That's not to say I'd get the same information and there really are certain things you can't experience without time such as how loud it tends to be late at night in the units or how does the bus system work, even how the restaurants work over time. But then again many guests staying at a resort don't get all that information and they often don't get a lot of info I'd pick up on in just 5 minutes.

Ones personal preferences are often emotional and based on feel and comfort. I make every effort to evaluate things objectively and compare the good and bad to my knowledge base which I think is better than most here when it comes to timeshares in general. And I try to sort out my emotional preferences from the objective thoughts as much as I can.

I definitely see your point here, Dean. You are clearly someone with a lot of knowledge about the resort industry, so I have no doubt that you can get a lot of info. in just a few minutes compared with those actually staying there for several days.

However, certainly the "average" resort visitor is going to miss lots (most?) nuances about a resort...yet these folks are also the ones who walk around a resort just to "visit" and then say "I hate it...it is an awful place to stay..." and thus the bashing begins.

 

[3DisneyKids]

What if you have repeatedly visited the Boardwalk in the morning and then strolled into EPCOT for the rest of the day.

In the several years since I discovered the Boardwalk, I've had the opportunity to do just that. I've started at Beach Club (the shortest walk to International Gateway) and I've started at Boardwalk. I've taken the ferry to IGW and the ferry from MGM. I've even walked all around the loop and down the looong hallways of BWV. I've had breakfast at the Boardwalk Bakery, ice cream after fireworks, sat on the Boardwalk eating pizza watching fireworks, seen the performers, and sat for near an hour watching that Carousel on the circle sofa in the BWV lobby. (I've even seen what lurks beneath those cushions as I chatted to the guy changing them out. Let's just say GROSS!)

The only experience I haven't had is trying to sleep when the late night activities go on outside. Admittedly that may have skewed my opinion a bit since I just can't imagine getting the same peace & quiet as I do elsewhere.

Hi Brogan

My comments to you are very similar to those I made to Dean in that you are not the "average" resort visitor. You have made multiple visits during multiples times of day, familiarizing yourself with multiple amenities, and so on.

But what I think we are talking about here are the folks who stroll through a resort for a walk after having a meal there...or who maybe pool hopped there and spent a few hours...then form an opinion and come here and bash.

So for those who are like you and Dean--savvy about resort life and thus know what to look for and/or have just made many trips--yes, I think you can likely make an informed opinion without having stayed there. However, for the majority, no, I don't think that it truly possible.

 

[Dean]

What sort of things are you divining about a resort that the rest of us don't see?

It really depends. I have a lot of timeshare experience with all types of resorts, there are a couple of other members here who can do the same thing.. You also have some additional timeshare experience and a different perspective given your needs, one thing I wouldn't see as good as you might be the accessibility. Better to let me tell you what I try to do. I try to see at least one or two rooms, walk the entire resort, look at the pools, arcade, common areas, restrooms (boys only), laundry, BBQ, picnic areas, arcade, community hall, building entrance(s), etc. I watch for traffic patterns both walking and driving in addition to any bus or boat options. I talk to the front desk people, bell services, gift shop personnel. But overall I just think I'm more observant and have a larger fund of knowledge than most in these areas.

I definitely see your point here, Dean. You are clearly someone with a lot of knowledge about the resort industry, so I have no doubt that you can get a lot of info. in just a few minutes compared with those actually staying there for several days.

However, certainly the "average" resort visitor is going to miss lots (most?) nuances about a resort...yet these folks are also the ones who walk around a resort just to "visit" and then say "I hate it...it is an awful place to stay..." and thus the bashing begins.

I think that's true to a degree. On a smaller scale, I think any experienced DVC member can do much the same thing depending on their level of experience and their overall knowledge. I guess I look at it in reverse. Just because one stays at a given resort doesn't automatically mean they have acquired much real information.

 

[BroganMc]

I try to see at least one or two rooms, walk the entire resort, look at the pools, arcade, common areas, restrooms (boys only), laundry, BBQ, picnic areas, arcade, community hall, building entrance(s), etc. I watch for traffic patterns both walking and driving in addition to any bus or boat options. I talk to the front desk people, bell services, gift shop personnel.

Ah, thanks for that. I guess you and I check out the same things then.

I do wish I could see more of the accessible rooms though. Usually they are occupied when I ask. So I'm forced to rely on quizzing the Front Desk, trip reports, photos and my expectations based on industry standards. On the upside, most rooms now do have doorways wide enough to fit a wheelchair. Accessibility these days comes down to the commode, shower and bed. (Which explains why I wish all rooms had those three accommodations and we'd eliminate unfulfilled demand. It's so easy to fix.)

 

[Dean]

Ah, thanks for that. I guess you and I check out the same things then.

Possibly. To be honest it's hard to put in down as I do so much. For SSR for example, the last time I did this I drove the bus routes then started at the Carriage House and explored every area, walking out back and around the building, took every path and stairway I could find. I then circled all the common buildings and toured through the spa. I walked around the pool then sat at the bar for a few minutes. I went in the laundry, community hall, arcade, sales area and explored that courtyard. I proceeded to CP checking out the front of the buildings, walkways, pool, play area, laundry, restroom, and grill/picnic area. I then proceeded through the Paddocks and Carousel doing the same thing all over again. Back across to the springs and over to Grandstand in a likewise fashion. Lastly I walked to the boat dock, across the bridge, through West Side, DD and back to SSR by CP. I came down the water side this time as far as the walkway went then back to the Carriage House.

Everyone will see something different or in a different way. Every time I do this at a resort I see different items and correct or fine tine previous impressions. I think I actually see the resort better when I do it this way than when I stay at a given resort though it is a little different given the things you might experience over the days and nights such as noise, fireworks, bus aggravations, etc.

 

[Anthony1971]

I think a lot of the points here, especially at Disney, is a lot of people get to the hotel drop thier bags get on a bus go to the park come back at 10 at night go to sleep and do it all over again the next day. The only knowledge they have gethered is checking in with a brief viewing of the central area, most of the time tired form traveling, then off to the area thier room is in seeing only that room and building and then only the bus stop that is closest to that building and what they can see form the bus. In a lot of ways this is what Disney is/was about.....depending on the resorts one previously stayed at, if one stayed at a dleuxe you certianly want to take the time to enjoy the grounds as you paid for it. If you stayed at a value then you will not feel guilty if you did not explore the resort and what it has to offer. This is not to say that even exploring the grounds that one will gather all information I think this for most this will take several trips... But the point is you need to spend time at a resort and yes a person can make an informed decision not staying but after visiting a few times and spending an adequate amount of time to see the entire resort and use the amenities. I guess "staying" at a resort is not the corect term it should be using the resort or if there is a corrcet term for this?
The best way to explain this is BWV and BCV offer (amenities) the ability to walk to EPCOT this is obvious SSR has spacious comfortable (very comfortable) elegant seating area in the central house which is not obvious even at check in if you do not walk over and sit as it is in sort of a seperate room.

 

[DVC Grammy]

After many years of being DVC members, and going multiple times each year, we have discovered that for us, there really isn't a "DVC for all seasons". Although we avoid summer trips, we generally go to WDW each fall (F & W), each January (2-3 weeks) and each spring (F & G).

On our January trips (which we usually split-stay), we prefer the indoor "hotel" DVC's, because of the possible cold weather (them 'ole bones, 'ya know ).

For F & W, we do an Epcot DVC (usually BWV) for convenience love: food, wine). But for spring, we might choose OKW or SSR because of the proximity to DTD.

Yes, with that many vacations there have been some non-magical moments at each DVC, but on the whole, they're totally outweighed by the magical ones. Do we have a favorite? Yes, but it varies........

 

[Dean]

I think a lot of the points here, especially at Disney, is a lot of people get to the hotel drop thier bags get on a bus go to the park come back at 10 at night go to sleep and do it all over again the next day. The only knowledge they have gethered is checking in with a brief viewing of the central area, most of the time tired form traveling, then off to the area thier room is in seeing only that room and building and then only the bus stop that is closest to that building and what they can see form the bus. In a lot of ways this is what Disney is/was about.....depending on the resorts one previously stayed at, if one stayed at a dleuxe you certianly want to take the time to enjoy the grounds as you paid for it. If you stayed at a value then you will not feel guilty if you did not explore the resort and what it has to offer. This is not to say that even exploring the grounds that one will gather all information I think this for most this will take several trips... But the point is you need to spend time at a resort and yes a person can make an informed decision not staying but after visiting a few times and spending an adequate amount of time to see the entire resort and use the amenities. I guess "staying" at a resort is not the corect term it should be using the resort or if there is a corrcet term for this?
The best way to explain this is BWV and BCV offer (amenities) the ability to walk to EPCOT this is obvious SSR has spacious comfortable (very comfortable) elegant seating area in the central house which is not obvious even at check in if you do not walk over and sit as it is in sort of a seperate room.

What I hear you saying is that many guests really don't see a resort even when staying there and that is what I was saying to a degree and why I said I thought I could gather more in an hour than many people staying a full week. IMO there are 3 components to this issue, the basic observational abilities of the person, the effort put forth and the underlying knowledge base. You really have to have all 3 to really get much information.

The last time we were in HI I spent a full day each plus bits here and there each for Kauai and Maui just visiting resorts. No way I could evaluate them in the way I quoted above for SSR, my wife would have left me there dead. I likely spent about 30-60 minutes at most resorts but they are not nearly as large as SSR and for about half I couldn't get to see a unit. I will likely do the same in 2008 for Maui and Oahu.

 

[BroganMc]

I think a lot of the points here, especially at Disney, is a lot of people get to the hotel drop thier bags get on a bus go to the park come back at 10 at night go to sleep and do it all over again the next day.

Unfortunately (for them) that is true with guests who come every couple years for only 5-7 days. The room becomes just a bed & bath while the real trip happens in the parks. At best, these guests will allot a "down day" to spend at the pool. And if they are placed near a pool, they may indulge in a midafternoon or evening swim.

However, I thought the average DVCer was spending longer amounts of time at Disney either in longer stays or multiple stays. For them, I imagine spending several hours getting comfortable at a resort is part of the trip.

In any case, the way you vacation really does determine your enjoyment of a resort. For those wanting to spend copious amounts of time at MGM & EPCOT, one of the Boardwalk resorts is a huge advantage over any other resort requiring bus transportation. VWL will capture those wanting to spend a lot of time at MK (CRV will most likely supplant that demand with its non-ferry access). But those looking for more time at the resort with some full park days, I'm guessing the destination resorts (OKW, SSR & AKV) are more desirable. All that peace and quiet people keep talking about as a perk.

Perhaps when we consider "resort bashing" we should just look at it as a discussion of the various perks and trade-offs. No one resort can have everything and people invariable want different things from their vacation.

 

[Sammie]

Perhaps when we consider "resort bashing" we should just look at it as a discussion of the various perks and trade-offs. No one resort can have everything and people invariable want different things from their vacation.

That wouldn't be 'bashing' though. Bashing occurs when someone "does" think a resort has everything and other resorts don't and can't understand why others don't feel exactly the same way. As long as others will accept that what appeals to some does not have to appeal to others, bashing would never occur.

 

[momba#9]

What I hear you saying is that many guests really don't see a resort even when staying there and that is what I was saying to a degree and why I said I thought I could gather more in an hour than many people staying a full week.

Sorry but I find this an offensive statement. It just might be one of the most condescending things I've read online in quite a while.

So lets get this straight , you are so much brighter than the rest of us that you can tell more about a resort in a quick walk through than we can during a stay there?

Come on! I believe an apology is in order. Believe it or not we can all see for ourselves what resorts we like and dislike. It doesn't have to be so scientific. You stay at the resort and see if you like the features, rooms, location, food, etc. You either like it or you don't. There is no magic formula.

You know, since you are so bright and so experienced maybe you can start a course that we can take. That way we don't even have to bother trying the resorts, we can just walk through them like you. Could save a lot of time and points.

Mike