Iraq Shows Dead and Captured U.S. Soldiers

[TinkHappy]

Here is Article 13 of the GC

Article 13

Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest.

Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.

Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited.

 

[TinkHappy]

See if this is the link you are looking for

http://193.194.138.190/html/menu3/b/91.htm

 

[SonjaB]

I read that, Tink. I'm actually looking for where it says anecdotal photography from a free press agent is a violation of that article.

 

[WebmasterAlex]

Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.

How do you define "public curiousity"? What other purpose does a news shot of a bunch of POW's walking down a road serve?

This quote from article 12 also applies:

Prisoners of war are in the hands of the enemy Power, but not of the individuals or military units who have captured them. Irrespective of the individual responsibilities that may exist, the Detaining Power is responsible for the treatment given them

The US government is clearly responsible.

Also note that wearing a uniform is NOT required to recieve the protection of the Geneva Convention.

 

[LIDisneyFan]

The explanation I heard today about why we're not in voliation by the Iraqis are is that individual networks are not covereged by the GC. It was the Iraqi National Station which televised our POW's

 

[SonjaB]

Hhhmmm, you said the GC was "quite clear" on this. What I see is an article open to interpretation.


So, if the US is the detaining power and a photographer from Germany photographs a transfer of prisoners, the US government is responsible?

The GC set up that article to keep detaining powers from exercising humiliating acts against the prisoners, such as the public parading of prisoners in Hanoi. That was specifically designed to humiliate and physically injure POW's, it was not anecdotal photography by a free press agent.

 

[WebmasterAlex]

first of all our press is HARDLY free. They are embedded into a US military unit recieving protection and support from them and having signed a contract to be there in the first place. How in the world can you say it is a free press? One of the rules they agree to is to NOT show these pictures.
As for you second argument ABSOLUTELY. Once someone is a POW the detaining power is completely responsible. If one of the reporters threw a rock wouldn't they have a duty to try and stop them? They could order the reporters away or confiscate their camera's but it is absolutely clear they are responsible.
The US governement used the SAME argument to prevent the taking of any pictures at Guantanemo. Obviously they know it exists.

 

[Olaf]

I find all of this GC quoting by the politicians and the generals quite interesting. They treated our POW's from the Gulf War horribly, and nothing happened to them. Why should they think anything will happen to them this time.

 

[TennVolTony]

You know what Alex? WHO cares about the GC at this point! The prisoners the U. S. forces have captured have been, fed, medically treated and allowed to rest and or go home....

Have we EXECUTED any of them yet??? Have we made public displays of thier dead bodies as if they were trophies on a damn wall??

CNN has reported the one and possibly 2 of the captured U.S. service personel had been executed. One of the captured is a female. Any idea what SHE must be going through right now??

This hacks me off to no end.......We are dealing with barbarians here... The gloves need to come OFF! They are setting traps and acting like they are surrendering only to ambush our troops.

Part of war? MAYBE.......As far as I'm concerned.....If the coalition sees something move...KILL IT!

 

[Buz]

MSNBC just reported that the violation is the filming of the interview/interrogation of prisoners.

Buz

 

[SonjaB]

I tend to agree with TVT, except for the last sentence.

I think we're splitting hairs and comparing apples to blood oranges.

 

[WebmasterAlex]

Well somehow we got well away from the original point. If we are going to yell about violating the Geneva Convention then we should make sure we are 100% in compliance...
If we don't care, and CERTAINLY Iraq doesn't.. than ok.. let's just make sure we have our arguments straight

 

[SonjaB]

I, personally, don't care about the GC at this point, HOWEVER, I think the US Gov't DOES and is well within the guidelines.

My argument remains "quite clear".

 

[WebmasterAlex]

OH and Sonja?
Go to this page, I can't link the pictures directly
Newsweek

click on "slideshow" "scenes of war"
there are 2 pictures that CLEARLY identify POW's.

 

[TennVolTony]

You pointed out Alex that we were in violation of the GC as well. The way I see it...we ARE NOT.....

What was shown on TV today is what the President and General Franks are talking about. A POW is just that..a prisoner of war..

NOT A TROPHY TO BE PUT ON DISPLAY..... DEAD OR ALIVE!!

 

[SonjaB]

Vulgar and tasteless, yes, violation of the GC, no.

 

[WebmasterAlex]

That's YOUR interpretation... the Iraq interpretation is that they haven't violated it. The Geneva convention is not a U.S. law.

 

[Dan Murphy]

Sonja, I was going to qoute your first reply here, with full agreement with you. Then I came to your second reply, your third, your......


I agree with them all, so very well, and so correctly, said.

 

[Fantasia Sam]

Originally posted by Olaf
I find all of this GC quoting by the politicians and the generals quite interesting. They treated our POW's from the Gulf War horribly, and nothing happened to them. Why should they think anything will happen to them this time.

Steph I agree with you on this - didn't stop them then and they weren't punished so it won't stop them this time.


Also as far as fine lines go I agree with what some of the others said I think we have put our toe over it by showing faces of the Iraq troops going home, they were shown here on SKY TV, even though it was the media that took the responsibility to show it and they have freedom of press but the media out there are under the watchful eye of the Govmt's in charge, aren't they and don't have the responsibility for the press? However that said we're not going up to them and interviewing them in front of the camera. Which is THE big difference.

If those pictures of Iraq troops going home were taken by Iraq TV then have WE crossed the line?

When SKY TV here showed faces of the Iraq's that had been defeated going home along that road I wondered if this made them POW's and therefore under GC rules? Alot of them were not wearing uniforms and also took there shoes off for fear, it was reported, of being recognised as Military by their own people.

 

[WebmasterPenny]

Originally posted by TennVolTony
WHO cares about the GC at this point!

Isn't caring about the GC one of the things that makes us better than them?

Now, I'd like to point out something <i>quite clearly</i> here. I never for a moment suggested that how we've portrayed POW's is anywhere near as bad as what the Iraqi's have done to our POW's - to suggest as such is ludricrous! However, that wasn't the question...the question was have we broken the GC and I think we have. I'm not alone...there was a whole discussion about it on Sky News yesterday and <i>they</i> decided yes, 'we the media' had done so. I think the very fact that now we are seeing soldiers telling cameramen to turn the camera away is evidence of that...otherwise why not leave them to carry-on as before?

Pictures I've seen aren't just Iraqi POW's being sent home, walking down the road or sitting in a truck waiting to be taken away. One notable scene I recall was of an Iraqi, sitting on the floor in the desert - he was being given water by a soldier standing over him - he wasn't holding the bottle himself, he was being 'fed' - whether his hands were tied or maybe he was just made to sit on them I don't know. The other side of him was a 2nd soldier standing above him with a gun which wasn't actually pointing at him, but was in the 'ready' position. The picture was shown illustrating how well we are treating the POW's - and displaying a 'little trophy' of our it seems. It was propoganda, period. The GC is there to protect POW's from being used like that. With <b>every</b> news report subject to coalition reporting restrictions, it has to be said that it's the coalition governments that are responsible for it being allowed.

I'm not comparing our treatment of POW's with the Iraqi's - they are leagues and leagues apart, but that doesn't mean what we did by showing POW's wasn't wrong.