How high do you think gas prices will go?

[mrodgers]

Yikes, glad I don't have to pay for your insurance or gasoline! Only reason my wife's Toyota had 5,000 miles on it was she had to continue to work in the office the entire pandemic. The car we traded in was driven about 7,500 miles a year, so not taking weekend trips cut the mileage. Toyota dealer said they are seeing a lot of cars in for annual service that have only been driving 1,000 miles.
As for the Ford with 12,000 miles in three years, that is actually higher than the 3,000 miles a year the car it replaced got. We put most of those miles on the first two years before the pandemic, we have a friend who lives 150 miles here and we shuttled her back and forth to cancer treatments here in 2018 and 2019.

Conversely I would hate to live in an area that the only reason you have 5000 miles in a year is because you went to work. I cut down significantly from about 20k miles to 14k miles and living so close to town is driving me batty.

 

[mrodgers]

It really is one of those things you have to experience rather than read about.

I had many of the same worries as you two years ago.

Range anxiety is the biggest hurdle to adoption of EVs.

In modern EVs with 200+ mile ranges it is really not something you worry about even with winter loss which is more in the 20% range for cars without a heat pump and 5-10% for those with a heat pump.

I am so happy paying so much less per mile.
827 miles for $15 = 1.8 cents a mile
827 miles for $83 = 10 cents a mile

Drive 12000 miles a year and you save almost $1000 by driving electric when compared to a 30 mpg car and gas at $3. Raise the price of gas or lower the mpg and the savings are even more dramatic.

Plus the maintenance savings. In 19000 miles my maintenance expenses are $9. I had to buy a cabin air filter at 15000 miles.

The 200+ mile range of todays electric cars coupled with home charging is amazing.

All well and good, but the kicker is, they cost more than double what my car costs. It's not financially smart to spend $23,000 to save $1000 a year over 10-12 years.

 

[rangerxenos]

I'm much more concerned about heating oil prices than gas prices, we just had oil delivered and it was $3.29 a gallon, AACK!

Hoping for a warmer than normal Winter here in CT.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I'm much more concerned about heating oil prices than gas prices, we just had oil delivered and it was $3.29 a gallon, AACK!

Hoping for a warmer than normal Winter here in CT.

You should get your wish, the NOAA forecast for temps this winter in the Northeast is saying we have a 40-50% chance of temperatures running "above normal". Only the northwest looks to have a cooler than usual winter.

https://www.noaa.gov/news-release/u...mer-south-wetter-north-with-return-of-la-nina

 

[dez1978]

29 mpg is amazing. My 3,000 mile per year vehicle that I traded in in 2018 was a Suburban. 9 mpg in town, 9 mpg on the freeway....9 mpg uphill.....9 mpg downhill.....9 mpg towing a horse trailer. I live in a suburb of Sacramento, so no, not a big city. My commute before we retired was 13 miles, my wife had a 10 mile commute. But yes, in the suburbs we have a couple of major grocery store chains within a mile, Walmart within 3 miles.

Yeah, this diesel engine is amazing. I haven't towed with it yet but I've seen videos of people getting 14-16 mpg towing 8600 lbs. I have wanted a Yukon for like, 15 years, but I could never justify it with the horrible gas mileage driving 80 miles a day. Now I am much closer and get GREAT miles. I avg about 23 day to day. And for a giant vehicle like that, to get the same or better mpg than my honda pilot or odyssey ever did is pretty awesome. And these duramax engines last forever. My husband had one that he sold that had over 400k miles on it and was still going strong. His current one has 150K and runs like new. But he works out of town and drives about 400 miles each way.

We have a small gas station/country store about a mile away, but our closest walmart is about 15 miles. Target is35. Walmart is the only chain grocery store in the town we technically live in. It's about 15k ppl but we live 9 miles out side of city limits. But since there is no post office out there our mailing address is still that town.

 

[mrodgers]

See, I just don't want to plan my stops. Nor do I want to stop every 3 hours for 45 min to an hour if I'm driving 12 hours to get somewhere.

Also for what it's worth, there are TWO public places to charge an EV in our states capital. TWO. The only ones within 100 mile radius of me are at hotels and that includes the ones in the capital city. And what do you do if you stop there and the 2 plugs they have are in use? So I think we are a long way from them beins easy for everyone to use. They probably work great in urban areas. But my last job, I drove 85 miles a day. We have a couple of months where the temp is regularly 30 or below for the high. That cold temp puts a significant dent in how far a charge will last. From what I've read, cold cuts the range 40-50%. With no place to plug in, I'd be cutting ir pretty close getting home on those days. And if there was an accident and I was stuck in traffic for an extra hour I might not make it.

Eventually they could be great and make sense for everyone. But its a long way off if you live rurally.

Someone chronicled a 1400 mile trip on another forum I frequent. He had 1 overnight full charge and 3 hours 12 minutes of plugged in charge time on the road. That doesn't factor in the navigating traffic to get to charge spots or waiting for others. I think I remember he stated he had 1 stop waiting over 20 minutes for a spot.

 

[dez1978]

Conversely I would hate to live in an area that the only reason you have 5000 miles in a year is because you went to work. I cut down significantly from about 20k miles to 14k miles and living so close to town is driving me batty.

Right??? I LOVE living out in the country. I complain about the driving but it's worth it. Honestly we are just the right amount of country to me. I grew up where there wasn't anything (gas, groceries etc) for about 20 miles in any direction. Thats a bit much, but 8 miles is just about right and it's all a good road, not gravel.

 

[dez1978]

It depends. Mine were free. If you have a Power Purchase Agreement (PPA) you pay nothing for the panels. That is what I have. I just have to agree to buy all the power the panels produce, even if you don't use it. The rate is lower than my utility charges. Any excess power I sell to my utility, and a lower rate than I pay. I'm saving about $30 a month. My contract runs for 20 years. I had the option of buying the panels outright for $36,000 outright before tax credits which were about 33%. And now that they have been in place 5 years, I could buy them at the current appraised value. The entire system is guaranteed for 20 years, and they guarantee the roof under them won't leak for 20 years. At the end of 20 years I can have the panels removed for free, or keep them and use the power for free, but any repairs would be at my cost after 20 years. I have a 36 panel system, rated at 9.36 kW.

How much do they cost to repair if there is a hail storm or something?

 

[mrodgers]

Right??? I LOVE living out in the country. I complain about the driving but it's worth it. Honestly we are just the right amount of country to me. I grew up where there wasn't anything (gas, groceries etc) for about 20 miles in any direction. Thats a bit much, but 8 miles is just about right and it's all a good road, not gravel.

Ha, your post is funny. 20 miles is too much, that sounds perfect for me. 8 miles, way too close but then again, I'm basing that on the town I'm stuck in and where work is.

When people asked where I lived, I just said 40 minutes from Walmart. We lived almost smack in the middle of the towns with Walmart 35 miles away to the north, south, east, and west. South was work, and the town I live in now. We only came here for work as it's a terrible town. So, it was a blessing to be equally away from work as we were from areas for shopping and town stuff.

 

[kdonnel]

All well and good, but the kicker is, they cost more than double what my car costs. It's not financially smart to spend $23,000 to save $1000 a year over 10-12 years.

I was due to replace a 17 year old car. I opted to replace it with an EV.

I paid $24000 - $1875 tax credit. So effectively $22,125. That is right in line with the $23,000 I paid for a 2019 Hyundai Sonata for my daughter the year before.

In September 2021 the average US car cost $45,031. I paid less than half that for my EV.

Sample EV starting MSRP prices:
2022 Nissan LEAF - $27,400
2022 Chevy Bolt - $31,000
2022 Hyundai Kona - $34,000
2022 Kia Niro - $39,990
2022 Volkswagen ID 4 - $39,995
2022 Ford Mustang Mach-E - $42,895
2022 Audi Q4 e-tron - $43,900
2022 Tesla Model 3 - $43,900
2022 Polestar 2 - $45,900

Those prices do not include potential tax credits from the Federal, State, or Local governments. You can reduce the price of those by $7,500 at a minimum.

 

[dez1978]

Ha, your post is funny. 20 miles is too much, that sounds perfect for me. 8 miles, way too close but then again, I'm basing that on the town I'm stuck in and where work is.

When people asked where I lived, I just said 40 minutes from Walmart. We lived almost smack in the middle of the towns with Walmart 35 miles away to the north, south, east, and west. South was work, and the town I live in now. We only came here for work as it's a terrible town. So, it was a blessing to be equally away from work as we were from areas for shopping and town stuff.

So where we are is pretty rural. Like we have 13 acres and everyone else around us has 5 or more so the houses are pretty spread out. I can see the neighbors so I don't feel isolated, but they are far enough away that I cannot hear them unless we are all outside. We are about 1/10 of a mile down a private gravel road so not much trafic, just the ppl who live there. When we lived in town, our house was a single car drveways witdth from the next house so if they had the tv on loud or were yellin in their house, I could hear them in my house. So it's 100% better than that. But since I am home alone with the kids 3-4 days a week, I didn't want to be completely isolated in case of a power outage or an emergency. Sometimes in the winter when we get 18 inches of snow we'll have a power outage for several hours so I don't want to be too far away from civilization lol

 

[adkkev]

I was due to replace a 17 year old car. I opted to replace it with an EV.

I paid $24000 - $1875 tax credit. So effectively $22,125. That is right in line with the $23,000 I paid for a 2019 Hyundai Sonata for my daughter the year before.

In September 2021 the average US car cost $45,031. I paid less than half that for my EV.

Sample EV starting MSRP prices:
2022 Nissan LEAF - $27,400
2022 Chevy Bolt - $31,000
2022 Hyundai Kona - $34,000
2022 Kia Niro - $39,990
2022 Volkswagen ID 4 - $39,995
2022 Ford Mustang Mach-E - $42,895
2022 Audi Q4 e-tron - $43,900
2022 Tesla Model 3 - $43,900
2022 Polestar 2 - $45,900

Those prices do not include potential tax credits from the Federal, State, or Local governments. You can reduce the price of those by $7,500 at a minimum.

So what’s the deal on your Chevy Bolt’s battery recall? Have you had it replaced yet? Or is there a wait time for replacement?

 

[kdonnel]

So what’s the deal on your Chevy Bolt’s battery recall? Have you had it replaced yet? Or is there a wait time for replacement?

Replacements have started but they are prioritized towards the cars most at risk, early 2019 models that got the last battery packs produced in Korea. Those are the ones that appear to be most at risk. I figure it will be late next year before they get around to the 2020s.

 

[rangerxenos]

You should get your wish, the NOAA forecast for temps this winter in the Northeast is saying we have a 40-50% chance of temperatures running "above normal". Only the northwest looks to have a cooler than usual winter.

https://www.noaa.gov/news-release/u...mer-south-wetter-north-with-return-of-la-nina

I saw that, and we are hoping it holds! I'm not a Winter fan to begin with, it's something to endure until Spring, LOL!

 

[ZellyB]

The new credits start the counters over and or have entirely new phase outs.

GM is most definitely back in the game when/if the new tax credits pass.

Tesla will also be back in the tax credit game but will only qualify for $7500 under either option.

There are two versions floating around but all auto makers start over in both plans.

Edited to add:
I found a chart that summarizes things as they stand now.

In both versions the credit starts at $7500 and then there are options for increases depending on where the car was made, who made it, and how much domestic content.

Both versions max out at $12,500 if all conditions are met. I believe only the Chevy Bolt and Ford F-150 will qualify for $12,500. The GMC Hummer has an MSRP above either cap. The Chevy Bolt will be an amazing value if either version passes as is. An amazing value!

As for the sunset period, one version stays in effect for 10 years no matter how many cars are sold and the other ends when 50% of all annual U.S. passenger vehicle sales are EVs.

I have been paying somewhat close attention as I am looking at replacing my second car. I have ordered both a Ford Mach e and a Tesla Model Y. I will buy whichever one is produced first early next year as both should qualify for $7500. I am rooting for the Ford Mach e to be ready first.

View attachment 619158

The Ford Mach - E is the one we have been considering although also looking at the Bolt EUV. That price tag for the Mach-E is rough! We've also been waiting to see if the tax credits get through. The advantage for the Ford right now is we could at least get the $7,500 right now regardless of any new legislation where we would need new legislation for the Bolt EUV to qualify again. At least that's my understanding.

 

[kdonnel]

The Ford Mach - E is the one we have been considering although also looking at the Bolt EUV. That price tag for the Mach-E is rough! We've also been waiting to see if the tax credits get through. The advantage for the Ford right now is we could at least get the $7,500 right now regardless of any new legislation where we would need new legislation for the Bolt EUV to qualify again. At least that's my understanding.

That is correct.

Ford still qualifies for the current $7500. It will drop to $3750 when Ford sells 200,000 electric cars. It is estimated that it would be at least mid to late 2022 before that number is reached. Then at some point it drops to $1875 and then finally to zero. But all that changes if something new is passed.

GM should qualify for tax credits if something new is passed.

The Bolt in particular will qualify for more than the Mach e under either of the two new plans since it is produced in the US by union workers with a battery made in the US. The Mach e is made in Mexico, the battery in Poland.

 

[ZellyB]

That is correct.

Ford still qualifies for the current $7500. It will drop to $3750 when Ford sells 200,000 electric cars. It is estimated that it would be at least mid to late 2022 before that number is reached. Then at some point it drops to $1875 and then finally to zero. But all that changes if something new is passed.

GM should qualify for tax credits if something new is passed.

The Bolt in particular will qualify for more than the Mach e under either of the two new plans since it is produced in the US by union workers with a battery made in the US. The Mach e is made in Mexico, the battery in Poland.

I appreciate all your information about this. I wish I were more optimistic that the legislation will get through, but sadly, I'm afraid it won't get passed. If we want to maximize the dollars with Ford sounds like we should be prepared to move in early 2022 if we opt to go that way.

 

[VandVsmama]

A friend in southern CA paid $90 to fill up her 18 gallon tank yesterday. So it's basically $5 a gallon there. Sheesh!

 

[tvguy]

How much do they cost to repair if there is a hail storm or something?

Nothing. That is all covered by Tesla.

 

[tvguy]

Conversely I would hate to live in an area that the only reason you have 5000 miles in a year is because you went to work. I cut down significantly from about 20k miles to 14k miles and living so close to town is driving me batty.

Wow, even at 14k that is above average. We live 13 miles out of town, but we have everything we need close by in the suburbs. Prior to the pandemic we would make a few trips to visit a friend who lives 150 miles away. But much further than 150 miles my family insists on flying.