Does this mean war??

personally I hope Bush shows the same patience he showed in the Afghani situation and waits until the UN agrees with him..

The UN agreed with us on 12 Sep 2001 via a resolution. But are you really of the opinion that had the UN NOT agreed with our decision to go into Afghanistan, we shouldn't have gone?

As I've said before, there is alot of evidence that Hussein can't be trusted, and that is dangerous. There is no evidence whatsoever that President Bush is doing this because of a personal vendetta. Again, I'll take evidence over personal biases anytime.
 
Originally posted by raidermatt

That said, I'm not sure what you were implying by directing your question at only Eros and myself, since about the only thing Eros and I agree on with respect to this topic is that we don't WANT to see people die.
Nothing was meant to be implied at all. I was simply trying to catch the attention of those who had provided a differing viewpoint. When scanning the thread, your name and Eros' name came up. I realize now that other people had posted opposing views and I appologize for singling you out. My intention was nothing more that to encourage the response of those who had posted different views from my own. I am sorry if my post suggested otherwise.
 
no proof, WDWHound, just a feeling going back prior to 9/11 that Bush was looking for an issue to go back to Iraq.
No offense, really, but we need to base decisions of this magnitude on more than just feelings.

The worst possible scenario is that we don't act, and that turns out to be the wrong decision. Because then we will eventually be provided with proof in a way that will leave no ambiguity in our course of action. Except it will be even more difficult to keep our wits about us then, than it is now. Arab countries will STILL not be in agreement with our attack, and Iraq will STILL likely attack Israel. Except this will all happen on Hussein's terms, when he has had more time to prepare.

Its not like this is a rash decision. Hussein has defied the UN for 10 years, this after invading Kuwait.

North Korea and Iran pose at least as great a danger to us as Iraq, if not more so.
Maybe, but they at least deserve a chance to work this out diplomatically.

We can't practice cookie cutter diplomacy here. Each situation is different, and poses different dangers.
 
My intention was nothing more that to encourage the response of those who had posted different views from my own.
No problem, just wanted to be sure I understood.
 
From my relatively uninformed knowledge, it has not ever been a question of if, but a question of when and how.
From the preliminaries I have read/heard I see us circling Baghdad and closing in.
But 'preemptive' tactics may deter us from this strategy.
 
from the 1999 article:

But in his debut debate of the 2000 presidential race, Governor George W. Bush of Texas sounded for a split second as if he was advocating the assassination of a world leader, an absolute no-no under both federal law and presidential executive order.


In fact, Bush may well have meant it. During an interview with the BBC on Nov. 18, the Texas governor also seemed to suggest that Saddam Hussein, the president of Iraq, needed to be dealt with in a mortal fashion.
Thursday night, when asked what he would do about Hussein, his father's nemesis during the war to free Kuwait, Bush was a tad belligerent. He would not ease sanctions, he said. He would not negotiate with Hussein, he said. He would help opposition groups, he continued, and he would make ''darn sure'' that Hussein lived up to agreements he signed in the early '90s.


''And if I found in any way, shape, or form that he was developing weapons of mass destruction, I'd take him out,'' Bush declared. ''I'm surprised he's still there. I think a lot of other people are as well.''


 
Here is my concern. What if Bush has proof that Saddam is ready to attack us, but there is no way to share that proof before Saddam can hide the evidence? That would put us in one heck of a dilimma. We should never attack without showing justifaction, but we may not be able to show justification before attacking. Of course, I have no proof this is the case, but its at least as valid a possibilty as this being some sort of personal vedetta of George Bush.
 
It was proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Hussein plotted to assainate former President Bush, W's father, during a visit to the Middle East after he left office. .

So, that is the reason a lot of people see this as something more personal with now Preident Bush rather then something that is 100% just a matter of national security. .
And that reasoning is completely illogical. Its a good reason to QUESTION the motivation, but by itself it is proof of nothing, nor does it have any impact on the evidence that does exist.

If you feel that the evidence that exists is inadequate, that's one thing. But it makes no sense to agree that he is a threat and that something should probably be done, but then back off because of the asassination attempt. What that argument says is that we would attack him if he had NOT plotted to asassinate the President, but since he did, let's back off. Amazing.

Besides, plotting to kill the President SHOULD be a strike against Hussein... Doesn't matter if it was Bush or Clinton. It only proves to what extent the guy will go.

On top of all that, there is absolutely NO evidence that the assasination plot has ANYTHING to do with our current course of action. Certainly it had nothing to do with the Security Council agreeing to the resolution. They seem to agree that there is a pretty significant problem...
 
The link to the 2000 article says that Bush favored spending money allocated by Congress to train and assist IRAQIS in overthrowing Hussein. This was signed into law by President Clinton. So the fact that candidate Bush was in favor of carrying out the policy as passed by Congress and signed by the President means that he had the hots to fight a war with Saddam? Sorry, but I don't see the connection.
If I were as partisan and cynical as you seem to be on this issue, I would think that President Clinton signed the bill into law because he wanted to fight a war with Hussein.
The 1999 link said that the the story doesn't exist (?)

And the editorial is just that - an editorial.

I've still not seen this supposed "smoking gun" that shows that Bush was pushing for a war with Iraq while he was running for President.
 
no question that Saddam poses a threat. no question that he has the ability to cause real harm.

but is it really necessary to "take him out"? we've managed to neutralize Moamar Khaddaffi.
 
http://www.boston.com/news/politics..._s_debate_answer_may_have_gone_too_far+.shtml try it again.

here's the whole article:


On Iraq question, Bush's debate answer may have gone too far
By Jill Zuckman, Globe Staff, 12/04/99


EDFORD, N.H. - Perhaps it was just wishful thinking. Or maybe it was a son's desire to finish something his father had once begun.


But in his debut debate of the 2000 presidential race, Governor George W. Bush of Texas sounded for a split second as if he was advocating the assassination of a world leader, an absolute no-no under both federal law and presidential executive order.


In fact, Bush may well have meant it. During an interview with the BBC on Nov. 18, the Texas governor also seemed to suggest that Saddam Hussein, the president of Iraq, needed to be dealt with in a mortal fashion.


''No one had envisioned Saddam, at least at that point in history, no one envisioned him still standing,'' Bush said, during a conversation about the Persian Gulf War. ''It's time to finish the task.''


Thursday night, when asked what he would do about Hussein, his father's nemesis during the war to free Kuwait, Bush was a tad belligerent. He would not ease sanctions, he said. He would not negotiate with Hussein, he said. He would help opposition groups, he continued, and he would make ''darn sure'' that Hussein lived up to agreements he signed in the early '90s.


''And if I found in any way, shape, or form that he was developing weapons of mass destruction, I'd take him out,'' Bush declared. ''I'm surprised he's still there. I think a lot of other people are as well.''


When the moderator, Brit Hume, inquired further, Bush either pulled back, clarified, or contradicted himself. ''Take him out?'' Hume asked.


''Take out the weapons of mass destruction,'' Bush responded.


Yesterday morning, Bush was asked again about Hussein, and how he planned to take out Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.


''That's up for Saddam Hussein to figure out,'' Bush said during an early morning news conference, declining to elaborate. ''He doesn't need to be building them. ... He just needs to know I'll take them out. It's important for a future commander in chief to state our intentions and the means will be evident to him.''


Several times over the past couple of days, Bush preferred to brush off direct questions rather than engage in discussions. When asked at the debate about his father's expertise on foreign affairs and skill in holding together the Gulf War coalition, Bush ignored the question about his relative lack of experience. Instead, he talked about what it takes to be a leader.


And yesterday, when told that Steve Forbes had questioned why Bush would not talk about his activities as a young adult, Bush refused to enter the fray on old questions about drinking and drugs. ''I've talked about that all I'm going to talk about,'' he said, his voice clipped.


But all in all, the Texas governor was feeling good yesterday after his debut debate that featured him as the top target of his Republican rivals.


He told about 300 businesspeople at the New England Council's ''politics and eggs'' breakfast that he was feeling ''hard-boiled'' rather than ''scrambled'' after the experience.


Asked about the Manchester Union Leader's endorsement of Forbes, Bush feigned shock and disappointment.


''Darn it!'' he exclaimed. ''I thought I had a chance.''


And he didn't seem terribly bothered that the conservative newspaper also called him ''an empty suit.'' Instead, he said, the American people will make their judgment themselves.


''The voters have got good wisdom,'' he said. ''They see through all of the spin and obfuscation through the course of the campaign.''
 
Briar Rose, I'm sorry, but all that quote proves is that the author has the same "feeling".

We all know our policy has been to help opposition groups, even when Clinton was in office. Clinton didn't negotiate away sanctions.

Granted, Clinton is a very different type of speaker than Bush, but "I'd take him out" does not mean advocating the assasination of, as the clearly biased author said it did.

Bush said he was surprised Hussein was still there, and he thought a lot of other people were as well? Well, yes, he was right. I remember after the Gulf War, a very popular opinion was that there was no need to go after Hussein. With his military in shambles, and so many of his own citizens against him, an overthrow was inevitable.

Guess it wasn't.
 
If the UN and the majority of our allies had been against us going into Afghanistan, and if the Bush administartion has said they had proof the Taliban was beind the 9/11 attacks but refused to offer any proof, then I would question whether they had the right people. . .


And really; Saddam tried to have the man's father assassinated- I'd sure be looking for an excuse to exact some revenge. .
 
I'm just posting here to reiterate what AirForceRocks said.
Many people don't understand the idea that not all information can be released to the public because to do so would compromise the means used to gather that material.
Classified material is meant for those that have clearance and a need to know. That leaves out all but a relative handful of people in the United States.
I have a friend whose daughter and son-in-law are in the Army and stationed in Germany. The son-in-law just returned from a very long and intense training mission, and his unit is being deployed to Iraq very soon. Anyway, the point I wanted to make is that, according to these friends who have the security clearance, there is MUCH MUCH MORE happening with Iraq and Saddam than the public knows or needs to know about.

Let's keep praying for our president, our country, our service men and women, and for world peace.
 
"A man, convinced against his will, is of the same
opinion still." Same old arguments between "hawks"
and "doves." A few things I think are funny/controversial
in these posts: someone who doesn't think "take him out"
means "kill" him AND someone who said "Let's do it
and get it done right" later saying they are not
advocating war. Lots of other stuff too but those
just reached out and grabbed me. I am, of course,
anti-war. A friend was asking the other day in casual
conversation why, she wondered, are people not
demonstrating like they did during Vietnam? I reminded
her that tens of thousands died prior to the big
anti-war movement then. She said, "I hope it doesn't
take that this time!" Amen!
 
I am, of course, anti-war.

So are you ALWAYS anti-war, or just in this instance? That is, do you think there is EVER a reason for America to go to war, and if so, when? What would it take for you to feel that a war against Iraq is justified?
 
AFR, you're on the wrong board:D :D :D

This is PIXIE DUST CENTRAL:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: .All CB members are expected to always agree to agree about anything that needs to be agreed upon in an agreeable fashion amongst agreeable people:confused: :confused: ......

When voices get raised, our eminent moderators/WebMasters "turf" such threads to the battleground of the Debate Board:) :) :) :) :) .

Soooooooooooooooooo, tell me AFR, do you prefer to wear pink or pastels?????:) :)
 
Nice try EROS, but it's not going to work. You haven't be averse to duking it out on this thread previously, so there is no need to start now!

Why don't you answer the question I put to shortbun?
 
AFR, I can't speak for her.

I believe that we must FIGHT when our national security is compromised AND when we have no alternative.

During Vietnam, the Pentagon and the White House initially "sold" the American people on a crazed notion called the DOMINO THEORY. General Westmoreland sacrificed the lives of

56,000 BRAVE AMERICANS .................for WHAT?????:confused: :confused: . In the end, we were BEATEN, but Southeast Asia didn't fall as predicted to the Communists..........

Generals LIE................ Presidents LIE..........Politicians LIE.......that's what they do best:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: .

As long as the inspections are ongoing and unimpeded, our NATIONAL SECURITY IS NOT THREATENED

Even the beloved CIA wouldn't come out and state that we are in imminent peril.

Our only peril is from a BLOODTHIRSTY , fixated, President........:mad: :mad: :mad:
 

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