Covid And The Rest of Us

[Planogirl]

Interesting contrast. Texas had well over 15,000 cases yesterday and over 12,000 reported today with the cities having the bulk of that. You can definitely see that things could be different.

 

[kyton]

Australia seems to be going along well - as Elphaba said earlier Victoria has had 0 cases 0 deaths in 28 days whilst here in NSW we are up to 20 days. It’s sort of feeling ”normal” - today was the 3rd time I have had a manicure since October and I didn’t wear a mask for the first time (there are plastic shields between the technician and customer as well as sanitiser and contact tracing forms to be filled out prior to sitting down).

We are even taking our kids out of school next week and are taking a 7 day trip to Queensland - we haven’t had a family holiday since December 2018 and since our usual trips overseas are not going to happen again until at least 2022ish, we figured Queensland will be our destination this year.

 

[lisaviolet]

I hear your feelings Lisa and I would never dismiss them. At the end of the day I believe feelings are what truly inform behaviours, at least for most people. We all have different motivations and catalysts (I guess today they’re called triggers) for our emotional responses to things, all equally valid since things so personal can’t be objectively weighed and measured. I think fairness dictates we all try to give each other the same respect in that regard.

I’m just guessing here but I think the brief, factual statement of average life expectancy, with no real context, gave you the impression that the message was a callous disregard for the deaths of the elderly. That is why I referenced the video, produced in Ireland and based on their statistics, which had been provided by @MommyinHonduras . (Maybe knowing the sources will reassure you it is not some crazy right-wing rant.) There are many balanced and politically/ideologically neutral voices producing factual information and simply that it exists and can be “taken on board” isn’t a threat. I will never agree that verifiably factual information should be suppressed just because it makes me uncomfortable. Nor does knowledge negate our right and responsibility to filter it through out own visceral and moral lenses when making decisions. And I don’t think you would either.

The situation we find ourselves in really has no easily identifiable good outcome. Something (either large or small) is at stake no matter what decisions are made. Your point about not really knowing what we are or are not willing to live with in the aftermath is a good one. Nobody can say until they have a lived experience, which you have had in a particular way.

I wish I had never quoted either of your/the posts. Honestly. Because it is a broad conversation that has been ensuing in general. People pushing boundaries with risk taking because they know better than specialists, not realizing how difficult it would be in the quiet of the day, if one's loved one suffered and died alone because of a choice one made, obviously not thinking of these repercussions coming to fruition.

I didn't think anything was right wing Annette, nor callous. And never have with any of your posts. And certainly did not here. You know in real life I discuss the miracle of you and I laughing over such very different viewpoints.

Factually stating the life expectancy of Canada did absolutely have meaning Annette. Meaning beyond playing here are the facts. And beyond your added pertinent data on the post. Did not feel like it was callous nor a threat, but it did absolutely have meaning.

And your post jumped off of it. And mine followed suit.

I have never wanted any factual information suppressed. I am saddened that my post gave off that vibe in any way.

Even without my life experience, I would be able to know that humans often think they can live with emotional consequences, that many truly can't. I had both frustration and loving worry for people's choices going forward. And by people's choices, I am not referring to how governments decide to go forward. I truly mean individual choices. Way more than any single trigger. I am truly sorry that got lost.

None of us should assume we know how we will live with our choices, after the fact - in time. And we can not even rely on anyone's words. Not even when stringent and firm and confident, before of after. I assure you that I have seen too many claim *they knew* they were emotionally fine/done, or would be, and most definitely were not. And in tandem we are seeing that almost daily with stories coming out regarding Covid.

Even with the medical professionals that face it all daily. And suffer that constant wearing down of saving lives AND hearing the pain of being alone without loved ones - from both sides.

**I am truly scared for the future emotional repercussions of what might seem like simple rational choices of the day for many. **

---------------

Also, what the world deems rational is of course beyond important. Facts are definitely the anchor, of any situation. But there is a tendency to think that emotional viewpoints do not have the same merit. They indeed do, they have a place and strength as well.

 

[lisaviolet]

Australia seems to be going along well - as Elphaba said earlier Victoria has had 0 cases 0 deaths in 28 days whilst here in NSW we are up to 20 days. It’s sort of feeling ”normal” - today was the 3rd time I have had a manicure since October and I didn’t wear a mask for the first time (there are plastic shields between the technician and customer as well as sanitiser and contact tracing forms to be filled out prior to sitting down).

We are even taking our kids out of school next week and are taking a 7 day trip to Queensland - we haven’t had a family holiday since December 2018 and since our usual trips overseas are not going to happen again until at least 2022ish, we figured Queensland will be our destination this year.

Wow. Wonderful news.

 

[lisaviolet]

Yet so many defend him. Think he's a hero

An American friend sent me a Reddit thread on this situation, thinking I might not have heard about the fiasco. One girl said she went to high school with the owner and insinuated he hasn't changed his lovely ways. Insert sarcasm.

An absolute attention hound.

It is a shame when there are many small business owners with valid points, that should be at least heard and considered.

 

[lisaviolet]

did not mean to upset anyone, but at our store these days are the busiest and most of our regulars that come in do not wear masks, and when I have asked them during conversation they tell me that they will not. Sorry for the upset.

I understood what you were trying to say.

There are many stories, and I have them with my own loved ones, where that generation is having a different outlook.

Where are you located (in general terms, not specific)? Curious.

 

[North of Mouse]

Has anyone heard from @MommyinHonduras since the last hurricane Iota? Honduras and area were hit very hard, not sure about Roatan. Always enjoy her interesting views.

 

[ronandannette]

Has anyone heard from @MommyinHonduras since the last hurricane Iota? Honduras and area were hit very hard, not sure about Roatan. Always enjoy her interesting views.

Yes! She checked in a week ago with this:

Well we are well as we were not directly hit by either Eta or Iota, but while praising God we are untouched, my heart is grieving at the devastation. Two major hurricanes in two weeks is, there really are no words. Hundreds of thousands of homes have been destroyed. Whole cities and regions throughout Honduras are flooded and damaged and cut off from food and supplies. More than three million people affected. That is 1 in 3 Hondurans. Not neighborhoods. Whole cities all around the country completely flooded. To the north, the south, the east, the west. Landslides everywhere. Bridges and roads out. On a scale of 1 to 10 it's a 12. How does one even begin to plan recovery for this? I know so many who are serving, literally shoveling mud out of homes, feeding and and loving on people. It is the bright light in this dark mess. Here are two but I could list 30 easily https://missionupreach.org/eta-relief-fund/ https://servehope.net/ Stay small, the photos coming if of warehouses of donated food and supplies lost and not given to those who it was intended to help are rage inducing. It means smaller is better for the same day relief needed.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Australia seems to be going along well - as Elphaba said earlier Victoria has had 0 cases 0 deaths in 28 days whilst here in NSW we are up to 20 days. It’s sort of feeling ”normal” - today was the 3rd time I have had a manicure since October and I didn’t wear a mask for the first time (there are plastic shields between the technician and customer as well as sanitiser and contact tracing forms to be filled out prior to sitting down).

We are even taking our kids out of school next week and are taking a 7 day trip to Queensland - we haven’t had a family holiday since December 2018 and since our usual trips overseas are not going to happen again until at least 2022ish, we figured Queensland will be our destination this year.

I've beginning to wonder if whenever that day comes when I don't wear a mask all the time out in public (aside from eating or drinking at a restaurant or out in a park or whatever away from peeps) if it will feel like when I go out of the house without my wedding ring on lol. I'm so used to wearing my wedding ring out and I've gotten used to a mask being something I have to think about. Did it feel freeing or were you a tad nervous?

That sounds like a nice little break you'll be having in Queensland!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Ummm, of late Canada does not have a great track record for decisively dealing with protestors of any kind. Back in early 2020, many important roadways, bridges and the entire national rail line were completely shut-down and held hostage by (illegal) protesters relating to various environmental issues and native land claims. Not one single jurisdiction (federal, provincial or municipal) had the stomach to tear down blockades or arrest protesters and the chaos was on-going for months. Had it not been for Covid, who knows but they still might be there?

So sounds fairly similar to here in the States but different reasons for protesting. The rail line part is really interesting. We've had bridges, highways and roads and entrances blocked but I'm trying to remember if there was public transit that was blocked by protestors themselves.

Your comment just made me think It's weird thinking back to earlier on in the year what was going on when COVID wasn't such a thing. Gosh it feel like a lifetime ago

 

[NFLDERS]

Yes. In this part of Ontario there are indigenous protests over new builds on their land. Homeless protests with encampments.

I heard that Manitoba (Dh told me not so I'm not sure it was Manitoba) at any rate a hospital made a decision to move a unit into a LTC facility instead of bringing Covid patients to the already stressed hospital.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes. In this part of Ontario there are indigenous protests over new builds on their land. Homeless protests with encampments.

I heard that Manitoba (Dh told me not so I'm not sure it was Manitoba) at any rate a hospital made a decision to move a unit into a LTC facility instead of bringing Covid patients to the already stressed hospital.

I do remember protests over oil pipelines a few years ago here in the States going through land both on an ecological issue and on a land rights issue now that I think about it but there hasn't been that as much as other issues being protested about.

 

[tlcdoula]

I understood what you were trying to say.

There are many stories, and I have them with my own loved ones, where that generation is having a different outlook.

Where are you located (in general terms, not specific)? Curious.

Thank you Lisa, I was not trying to upset anyone. I am in British Columbia. It is hard to see people maybe not understand or believe.

I had the sweetest lady come through my till she was buying a couple of items and seen a cardigan hanging on the rack to be put away behind my till. She wanted to try it on, she had rubber gloves on and took them off to try the sweater on. After she took the sweater off and we were chatting she was trying to get her gloves back on. Now she was touching the outside of the gloves trying to get her fingers back in. The whole time I was trying to figure out how I could say something with out being rude or out of line. In the end I didn't say anything but I felt horrible. Now her hands are dirty from touching the outside of the gloves and will take the gloves off feeling her hands are clean later on. I honestly wanted to just take the gloves throw them out and hand her my sanitizer but I didn't want to make her feel bad. ugh all of this really is so hard.

Mask mandate just went in last week so even though many are wearing masks already many are not. They will come up to walk in and when we say sorry you need to wear a mask many are shocked. I have only had a couple of people really make a scene about it during my shifts thankfully. I am hoping that we don't have any other anti maskers come in to cause trouble on purpose. It is hard enough for everyone trying to work right now.

sorry for the novel

 

[BadPinkTink]

Update from Ireland

The Irish Prime Minister has just announced that Ireland is moving from Level 5 lockdown to Level 3 with restrictions

From Tuesday 1 December
Retailers, hairdressers, gyms, libraries, galleries and cinemas will reopen. People will be permitted to use tennis courts and golf courses, and religious services will also be allowed to resume.

Travel over 5km but within your county is allowed

People will be asked to wear masks outdoors in busy areas, in busy workplaces and in places of worship.

Households should not mix with others, other than those within their bubble.

From Friday 4 December
Restaurants and pubs with a kitchen on-site are to reopen, but with additional restrictions than before. Hotels will also be able to open to indoor diners.

Pubs that only serve alcohol will not be permitted to reopen before Christmas, but will be allowed to serve takeaway drinks.

From Friday 18 December
Restrictions on household visits will be lifted from a ban on household visits, to allow two households to visit a third. Inter-county travel will also be permitted from this date, until 6 January. There should be no hugs or handshakes with visitors and people should wear a face mask when visiting other households.

 

[lisaviolet]

ugh all of this really is so hard

It really is. Hang in there. This was going on in Toronto, in the spring. Shopkeepers and workers would sometimes not even try to enforce. Not huge numbers but most days, most stores. And quite frankly workers in these establishments do not get paid enough to be dealing with that in their job description. But that is another story.

But then we went mask mandate in the city, inside facilities. And I never saw it again. It helped everyone here, all sides.

I am hoping that we don't have any other anti maskers come in to cause trouble on purpose. It is hard enough for everyone trying to work right

Yep. Let's hope.

sorry for the novel

You're are saying that to a disboards ridiculous novelist.

I knew what you meant because my older relatives/loved ones are the ones who tell me that they aren't doing this or that. Sometimes straight out defiance, sometimes not realizing (or pretending not to! Smiling.). And although my parents have passed away, I have days thinking about how they would have dealt with it all. Both my parents were beyond social. Total extroverts. And my father was very stubborn. It would have been something. Many sleepless nights, unless I learned to somehow let it go.

 

[lisaviolet]

Update from Ireland

The Irish Prime Minister has just announced that Ireland is moving from Level 5 lockdown to Level 3 with restrictions

From Tuesday 1 December
Retailers, hairdressers, gyms, libraries, galleries and cinemas will reopen. People will be permitted to use tennis courts and golf courses, and religious services will also be allowed to resume.

Travel over 5km but within your county is allowed

People will be asked to wear masks outdoors in busy areas, in busy workplaces and in places of worship.

Households should not mix with others, other than those within their bubble.

From Friday 4 December
Restaurants and pubs with a kitchen on-site are to reopen, but with additional restrictions than before. Hotels will also be able to open to indoor diners.

Pubs that only serve alcohol will not be permitted to reopen before Christmas, but will be allowed to serve takeaway drinks.

From Friday 18 December
Restrictions on household visits will be lifted from a ban on household visits, to allow two households to visit a third. Inter-county travel will also be permitted from this date, until 6 January. There should be no hugs or handshakes with visitors and people should wear a face mask when visiting other households.

Lovely to hear. Progress.

I am sure a lot of it - inter-county travel caught my eye during the holidays - is such a huge relief.

What are your personal thoughts BadPinkTink? And specifically I am curious on your thoughts on how it is being rolled out.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I knew what you meant because my older relatives/loved ones are the ones who tell me that they aren't doing this or that. Sometimes straight out defiance, sometimes not realizing (or pretending not to! Smiling.). And although my parents have passed away, I have days thinking about how they would have dealt with it all. Both my parents were beyond social. Total extroverts. And my father was very stubborn. It would have been something. Many sleepless nights, unless I learned to somehow let it go.

I've mentioned it before if my grandmother were alive oh boy she would not have been dealing with this well. "What do you mean I can't go to the casino?" "Why haven't you visited" "I don't want this food" and so much more.

Just last night we had Thanksgiving at my mother-in-law's (total of 5 of us) and tonight we are going to my husband's dad's place. I really just wanted to pick one family but I knew I just wasn't going to win that fight (and please no one leap on me it was a very difficult decision to be had). I hate what Christmas is going to be like. I opted us out of my mom's though they cancelled it anyways everyone doing their own thing. If anyone is wondering I haven't seen anyone on my mom's side of the family save my mom since last Christmas (covid interrupted multiple plans) so yeah I'm missing them some of us have gone a long time already without seeing loved ones.

Anyways my husband worked from home this week and is working from home this coming week. We are choosing to isolate from other people for at least a week (I'd be more comfortable isolating til at least next Sunday) due to going to two places and did isolate beforehand since last Sunday. It's not a perfect isolation but it's better than nothing to me. My mother-in-law said "well I'm not isolating I'm going to Big Biscuit tomorrow morning" (that's a breakfast/brunch place). I can't stop her or my sister-in-law either and even though masks are required they aren't once you sit down. My mother-in-law is very pro-mask these days but often forgets to wear hers when she's supposed to. She means well though.

I got what the other poster was meaning too even though I also knew how it came off as well. I think the poster meant well though not that they meant to be ageist just how it came out.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Lovely to hear. Progress.

I am sure a lot of it - inter-county travel caught my eye during the holidays - is such a huge relief.

What are your personal thoughts BadPinkTink? And specifically I am curious on your thoughts on how it is being rolled out.

To be honest, I've had a relatively easy time with the lockdown over the last 6 weeks. I work from home and most the things which have been closed or restricted do not not affect my day to day life. For me personally, its the travel that I miss. Being confined to 5km from home is hard for me as I live in the suburbs and I don't drive. There are no amenities other than a closed mall within 5km of my house, just thousands of houses as far as the eye can see.

We wont have visitors over Christmas, as my sister lives in England. We had already planned a Skype Christmas.

As for the general feeling, all I see on social media and on the talk radio shows is Covid fatigue. People don't care and I think the next few weeks it will be crazy, shops will be crowded, bars and restaurants will be crowded, public transport will be crowded and households will mix and not wear masks. All the work getting down to low numbers will be undone, December will be a superspreader month and the case numbers will soar in January.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As for the general feeling, all I see on social media and on the talk radio shows is Covid fatigue.

Do you think having the specific dates listed for what is allowed and what isn't on what dates helps or hinders on this point? Like I could see it being "oh look there's the light" but then also "oh look there's the light" but meaning you let your guard down too quickly and throw caution to the wind in some fashion.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Do you think having the specific dates listed for what is allowed and what isn't on what dates helps or hinders on this point? Like I could see it being "oh look there's the light" but then also "oh look there's the light" but meaning you let your guard down too quickly and throw caution to the wind in some fashion.

I think it helps. I understand what the Irish Government are trying to do, to not have this big mad free for all next week and to stagger things. But there has been a big social movement to buy Irish over the last few weeks, telling people to make an extra effort to do their Christmas shopping in local shops. Buying from Amazon and online international shops is seen as a big no no. Also huge amounts of people are reluctant to buy online and want in person shopping like it always has been. The shops and restaurants are going to be crowded as the majority of people will have waited to do their Christmas shopping. There is huge pent up demand and people will let their guard down, especially when it comes to households mixing.