Covid And The Rest of Us

[Weedy]

Orlando, Florida
Could people please start their answers where “here” is
Even if you’ve did it before we may not remember and may have to scroll through previous post to see.

 

[TLSnell1981]

If you click her name, it says she last logged on yesterday, so while not here on this thread, she is around.

Maybe just "turning" off the noise that makes you crazy".

Hello everyone. I think often of @bavaria , I send a lot of love. I am glad to see you posting @MommyinHonduras , as I saw the second hurricane and was really concerned. ❤.
I am going to be very honest, I am struggling mentally. The holidays are coming, normally we leave (escape), and with the closures of the borders...my husband has now seen how much I’m struggling, and we may end up flying somewhere, I’m not sure at this point, we are just in discussion mode. I don’t want sympathy, I’m just being transparent.

Restaurants here in red zones have been closed since Oct 1- indoor dining, I think they were only opened for that at some point in July ? Our provincial gov started this, and yesterday announced an extension until at least JAN 11 https://montreal.citynews.ca/2020/1...aurants-as-covid-19-restrictions-take-effect/. We had a press conference that also announced schools would close Dec 17 or 18, so we would be “allowed“ to hold 10 people gatherings Dec 24, 25, 26, 27, for the holidays, and schools would return a week late in January, . Naturally many find this crazy, we have about 1200-1400 cases a day, 34 deaths, and now this ! People of different faiths, are upset, I get it too.

I am sure we have had some rest. Closed, but I personally haven’t heard much about it. The gyms are really the ones who I hear pushing to open.

 

[mommasita]

Maybe just "turning" off the noise that makes you crazy".

I misunderstood, but got it now.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I misunderstood, but got it now.

It's a song lyric..."Be Good to Yourself'.

 

[NFLDERS]

Thanks so much. I've tried with both links just now; the first one has gone through but the second one (which sounds like an amazing organization!) is glitching on the donations page but I have reached out to them and hope I can get it to work with their assistance. I'm glad to hear you are well but I know it's also just so crushing to be well while observing the plight of so many.

 

[lisaviolet]

Well we are well as we were not directly hit by either Eta or Iota, but while praising God we are untouched, my heart is grieving at the devastation

You have been on my mind. Happy that you have been untouched MommyinHonduras.

-------

Sigh, the devastation must be unreal with two so close together.

The holidays are coming, normally we leave (escape), and with the closures of the borders...my husband has now seen how much I’m struggling and we may end up flying somewhere, I’m not sure at this point, we are just in discussion mode.

I am very happy that the discussion is open mommasita.

 

[lisaviolet]

We have gone into lockdown today in Toronto proper. Let me rephrase, we got word that we will be at midnight Sunday going into Monday. Sigh, conflicted emotions.

 

[lisaviolet]

@bavaria I hope you are well. I sure miss your very honest thoughtful input here.

Me too.

 

[mommasita]

We have gone into lockdown today in Toronto proper. Let me rephrase, we got word that we will be at midnight Sunday going into Monday. Sigh, conflicted emotions.

Resding all about that. . Meanwhile we got word today/tonight, that our stores will be extending shopping hours for Xmas, with free parking downtown. Say what ? Mix messages all around town, I feel especially for those parents working in these stores, with our new updated schools closures at Xmas time. My mind boggles at times.

 

[lisaviolet]

That’s the life expectancy in Canada.

Shhh...any reasoned discussion of Covid deaths v.s. excess deaths is likely to get you labeled a dangerous Covid-denier around here. There is actually a very rational and informative video link in a post upthread about a month ago that explains that very thing in relation to western Europe. (But you didn't hear it from me. )

I really struggle with this discussion.

I have multiple family members that are elderly and super healthy. Like crazy healthy. One hasn't even taken an aspirin. Don't ask. I guess it is the old time mentality of I am a tough Irish ************ (without the swear words!).

So who cares what our life expectancy is here in Canada. You have lived a long life, so it is your turn? We decide that?

I have read people on this board, especially men, say that they would be willing to go sort of speak, bringing up different scenarios. Great. Wonderful. Guess what? Your death really isn't about you. You're gone. Your death is about the living. Do people really think a friggin' life is insular?

And here is where I struggle the most with this line of thinking. Very few people know how agonizingly hard it is to lay their head on a pillow, in the quiet of a night and wonder about multiple decisions and choices about the life and death of another. It is excruciating in the moment and haunting in the years that follow. So great that you think (you is general you throughout, certainly not the pasted words - my apologies it is simply a jumping off point) that you have got the risk of everyday life and freedoms all figured out in your head.

The still of quietness would haunt most humane humans if you are the reason, obviously inadvertently, why your loved one is gone and has suffered. And the absolutely worst part died without any comfort and contact from those they love. There are multiple stories from health care professionals that people are dying while crying out for their loved ones. I just can't.

I know this is not easy. And I know a balance is necessary. I am not trying to be overly emotional, without any rational thought. But I just want to get people to realize whatever outcome you think you could handle, is not often reality when the room and your mind is quiet.

 

[lisaviolet]

Resding all about that. . Meanwhile we got word today/tonight, that our stores will be extending shopping hours for Xmas, with free parking downtown. Say what ? Mix messages all around town, I feel especially for those parents working in these stores, with our new updated schools closures at Xmas time. My mind boggles at times.

Didn't even know what emoji to push. Lord. How surprisingly strange.

It is a whole basket of huh?

I had to go into a relatively frivolous store tonight, long story. And I realized that I truly haven't been in any stores at all. I mean I go into the bike shop regularly, grocery store, some takeout options and Shopper's (drug store, for Non-Canadians reading ). But if you injected me with truth serum I would have said of course I have been in a multitude of regular stores, multiple times. Absolutely I have.

I haven't. I realized that tonight because it felt like alien territory. No one was social distancing, no one was paying attention to six feet markers at checkout. Hardly anyone (unlike the grocery store where people do) They actually had to loud speaker about distancing. And I was truly shocked how many people were casually shopping for non-essential goods. Just straightforward fun frivolous shopping. I mean obviously I looked like I was too. But I really wasn't. Unfortunately. And there couldn't be a hundred of me.

The other day when they had already announced red zone, which meant household engagement only, I rode by about twenty twenty somethings standing closely around a fire pit. They must live in a commune.

Not a mask in sight.

The chances are slim for them, being outside. I get it. And I don't wear my mask outside, unless mandated. But they were very close to each other. And obviously oblivious to or not caring about new rules in place.

Tonight I could hear the announcement on the streetcar about please choose to wear a mask or any face covering. The face coverings, non-masks - loose thin and open - do very little for anyone. That has been proven. So that verbiage is completely assinine. Does little for the greater good.

These sightings coupled with the ongoing "love and friendship are superpowers against the virus" made me realize why our numbers are on the rise.

 

[ronandannette]

I really struggle with this discussion.

I have multiple family members that are elderly and super healthy. Like crazy healthy. One hasn't even taken an aspirin. Don't ask. I guess it is the old time mentality of I am a tough Irish ************ (without the swear words!).

So who cares what our life expectancy is here in Canada. You have lived a long life, so it is your turn? We decide that?

I have read people on this board, especially men, say that they would be willing to go sort of speak, bringing up different scenarios. Great. Wonderful. Guess what? Your death really isn't about you. You're gone. Your death is about the living. Do people really think a friggin' life is insular?

And here is where I struggle the most with this line of thinking. Very few people know how agonizingly hard it is to lay their head on a pillow, in the quiet of a night and wonder about multiple decisions and choices about the life and death of another. It is excruciating in the moment and haunting in the years that follow. So great that you think (you is general you throughout, certainly not the pasted words - my apologies it is simply a jumping off point) that you have got the risk of everyday life and freedoms all figured out in your head.

The still of quietness would haunt most humane humans if you are the reason, obviously inadvertently, why your loved one is gone and has suffered. And the absolutely worst part died without any comfort and contact from those they love. There are multiple stories from health care professionals that people are dying while crying out for their loved ones. I just can't.

I know this is not easy. And I know a balance is necessary. I am not trying to be overly emotional, without any rational thought. But I just want to get people to realize whatever outcome you think you could handle, is not often reality when the room and your mind is quiet.

I hear your feelings Lisa and I would never dismiss them. At the end of the day I believe feelings are what truly inform behaviours, at least for most people. We all have different motivations and catalysts (I guess today they’re called triggers) for our emotional responses to things, all equally valid since things so personal can’t be objectively weighed and measured. I think fairness dictates we all try to give each other the same respect in that regard.

I’m just guessing here but I think the brief, factual statement of average life expectancy, with no real context, gave you the impression that the message was a callous disregard for the deaths of the elderly. That is why I referenced the video, produced in Ireland and based on their statistics, which had been provided by @MommyinHonduras . (Maybe knowing the sources will reassure you it is not some crazy right-wing rant.) There are many balanced and politically/ideologically neutral voices producing factual information and simply that it exists and can be “taken on board” isn’t a threat. I will never agree that verifiably factual information should be suppressed just because it makes me uncomfortable. Nor does knowledge negate our right and responsibility to filter it through out own visceral and moral lenses when making decisions. And I don’t think you would either.

The situation we find ourselves in really has no easily identifiable good outcome. Something (either large or small) is at stake no matter what decisions are made. Your point about not really knowing what we are or are not willing to live with in the aftermath is a good one. Nobody can say until they have a lived experience, which you have had in a particular way.

 

[NFLDERS]

We have gone into lockdown today in Toronto proper. Let me rephrase, we got word that we will be at midnight Sunday going into Monday. Sigh, conflicted emotions.

Hang in there. It's easy (for now) for me to say 'cause we are still in Orange (or Yellow? Hell, if I know!) here in Niagara, but I feel we are not too far behind in lock down.

 

[NFLDERS]

I really struggle with this discussion.

I have multiple family members that are elderly and super healthy. Like crazy healthy. One hasn't even taken an aspirin. Don't ask. I guess it is the old time mentality of I am a tough Irish ************ (without the swear words!).

So who cares what our life expectancy is here in Canada. You have lived a long life, so it is your turn? We decide that?

I have read people on this board, especially men, say that they would be willing to go sort of speak, bringing up different scenarios. Great. Wonderful. Guess what? Your death really isn't about you. You're gone. Your death is about the living. Do people really think a friggin' life is insular?

And here is where I struggle the most with this line of thinking. Very few people know how agonizingly hard it is to lay their head on a pillow, in the quiet of a night and wonder about multiple decisions and choices about the life and death of another. It is excruciating in the moment and haunting in the years that follow. So great that you think (you is general you throughout, certainly not the pasted words - my apologies it is simply a jumping off point) that you have got the risk of everyday life and freedoms all figured out in your head.

The still of quietness would haunt most humane humans if you are the reason, obviously inadvertently, why your loved one is gone and has suffered. And the absolutely worst part died without any comfort and contact from those they love. There are multiple stories from health care professionals that people are dying while crying out for their loved ones. I just can't.

I know this is not easy. And I know a balance is necessary. I am not trying to be overly emotional, without any rational thought. But I just want to get people to realize whatever outcome you think you could handle, is not often reality when the room and your mind is quiet.

Best words here chosen by you to put this in perspective. You truly sum up the decency in protecting human life.

 

[elphaba91]

In Victoria we are on day 23 of zero cases and zero deaths. As of midnight we can have up to 15 visitors to our homes per day, which will increase to 30 on 13 December for the holidays, and gatherings of up to 50 outdoors. For hospitality, smaller venues can have up to 50 people indoors with a density limit of 2 square metres per person, and larger venues have a cap of 150 people indoors with 4 square metres per person, plus another 150 outdoors. There are also higher numbers allowed in galleries, cinemas, sporting facilities, churches, etc.

The thing that is exciting most people though, is that we are no longer required to wear masks outdoors, as long as you can safely distance. To explain when masks are required, the Premier provided an analogy of attending Bunnings, a hardware store where you can usually also buy a barbecued sausage on white bread with or without onion. As you can see, he and the Chief Health Officer are not on the same page about everything...

 

[ronandannette]

In Victoria we are on day 23 of zero cases and zero deaths. As of midnight we can have up to 15 visitors to our homes per day, which will increase to 30 on 13 December for the holidays, and gatherings of up to 50 outdoors. For hospitality, smaller venues can have up to 50 people indoors with a density limit of 2 square metres per person, and larger venues have a cap of 150 people indoors with 4 square metres per person, plus another 150 outdoors. There are also higher numbers allowed in galleries, cinemas, sporting facilities, churches, etc.

The thing that is exciting most people though, is that we are no longer required to wear masks outdoors, as long as you can safely distance. To explain when masks are required, the Premier provided an analogy of attending Bunnings, a hardware store where you can usually also buy a barbecued sausage on white bread with or without onion. As you can see, he and the Chief Health Officer are not on the same page about everything...
View attachment 539669

We are all watching you - wishing you well and hoping something useful can be learned from Australia's approach, even if the exact same methods would be impossible where most of us are.

Alberta Canada here (for posters who don't know). Is anybody following the "Are Cases Rising or Dropping by You" thread? I've noticed so many posts there commenting on the rampant spread amongst young people, presumably due to in-person school and unrestrained social activities. Those are reasonable assumptions to make but when I went looking, it turns out Alberta's data would say otherwise quite decisively. This chart shows the age ranges of all Covid-positive people in our province since the beginning. The vast majority of cases are amongst people between the ages of 30 and 59. Certainly not those who are having close, all-day contact in classrooms or those you'd expect to be throwing caution to the wind at big, boisterous social gatherings. It's all so puzzling - our contact tracing has fallen completely off the rails so that makes it even harder to imagine where/how all the transmissions are taking place.

 

[NFLDERS]

We are all watching you - wishing you well and hoping something useful can be learned from Australia's approach, even if the exact same methods would be impossible where most of us are.

Alberta Canada here (for posters who don't know). Is anybody following the "Are Cases Rising or Dropping by You" thread? I've noticed so many posts there commenting on the rampant spread amongst young people, presumably due to in-person school and unrestrained social activities. Those are reasonable assumptions to make but when I went looking, it turns out Alberta's data would say otherwise quite decisively. This chart shows the age ranges of all Covid-positive people in our province since the beginning. The vast majority of cases are amongst people between the ages of 30 and 59. Certainly not those who are having close, all-day contact in classrooms or those you'd expect to be throwing caution to the wind at big, boisterous social gatherings. It's all so puzzling - our contact tracing has fallen completely off the rails so that makes it even harder to imagine where/how all the transmissions are taking place.
View attachment 539711

My interpretation is that your students (for the exception of 20-29 year olds) and elders are the adamant observers of protection. Alarming to me is our news comparing Alberta's numbers to Ontario's. While we are larger and more heavily/densely populated Alberta of late is riding circles around us. Did I hear that right?

 

[ronandannette]

My interpretation is that your students (for the exception of 20-29 year olds) and elders are the adamant observers of protection. Alarming to me is our news comparing Alberta's numbers to Ontario's. While we are larger and more heavily/densely populated Alberta of late is riding circles around us. Did I hear that right?

Not exactly but the numbers can be parsed in a lot of different ways. At this time it's BC's cases that are increasing most rapidly and Manitoba that has pole-vaulted ahead of the rest of the provinces per-capita. But it's not a contest, either for the good or bad. None of us are headed in the right direction. This is a graphic from the CTV News website showing the overall distribution of cases:

 

[lanejudy]

I've noticed so many posts there commenting on the rampant spread amongst young people, presumably due to in-person school and unrestrained social activities

I'm in VT. Very low virus here compared to the rest of the US, but our cases have exploded in the past month. And it is not schools and young people. On press conferences last month our Governor admonished adults for poor behavior and selfishness.

 

[Jrb1979]

I'm in VT. Very low virus here compared to the rest of the US, but our cases have exploded in the past month. And it is not schools and young people. On press conferences last month our Governor admonished adults for poor behavior and selfishness.

I'm in Niagara Ontario. Most of the cases are from younger adults under 40. Unfortunately IMO a lot has to do with so many of them either not caring or IMO that it seems so many have this outrageous belief in a conspiracy theory that it's being down to control us.