Booking rooms wasn’t always this…challenging… was it?

[Sandisw]

It's booking dates that you "might" want, just so you can have them if you choose to use them, for instance. Or in the case of renters, booking high-value dates specifically to market your points.

Being able to book as many reservations as we want, which is another contractual right, is a huge benefit of DVC

I book trips for pretty much every month Dec to April and then a few between May and November just in case we want to go.

But, you are right, I am holding rooms that very well could get canceled until I am sure they won’t be needed.

As long as DVC doesn’t penalize owners outside of 31 days for changes and cancellations, it’s a huge benefit!

 

[Instagramhusband]

My point is that it hasn't always been this way, and it's getting worse. People already hate going to Disney now because of how complicated it is, and why should DVC members have yet another thing to worry about?

You cannot book a non-home resort room more than 7 months out a 8am, without gaming the system, that is.

The simple solution is to own at those resorts! Just kidding, that is my WIFES' solution to the problem!

 

[crazycatlady]

The simple solution is to own at those resorts! Just kidding, that is my WIFES' solution to the problem!

Haaa! Mine, too! That's why we have smaller contracts at a bunch of resorts.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

I can remember when I could snag a value studio at AKL at 7 months. I did it at least 4-5 times in the early years. And I've gotten a Boardwalk view studio at Boardwalk two or three times, but not in the last 10 years. I even got a standard studio at Boardwalk at 7 months once.

Me too.

It’s the point renting. No lack of availability in the rental ads.

 

[GaSleepingBeautyFan]

I messed myself up for this fall trip. I hadn't thought to book my room with everything going on in my life right now. Today I went on the site to book my fall trip and realized how much more tough it is to get a studio room in the fall. Even 3 years ago it was easier.

Now I need to make a decision switching resorts a few times which I don't like since I drive down and rent a scooter from an offsite company or book a 1 bedroom - using up alot of my points to do it.

It's time to decide what to do before even those options go away. And you can bet I put it in my 2026 calendar so I don't have this issue again!

 

[peder]

As long as DVC doesn’t penalize owners outside of 31 days for changes and cancellations, it’s a huge benefit!

That's one change I would probably support. Cancellations within 60 or 90 days should probably go to holding rather than the 30 day policy in place today. For any DVC owners that live more than a few hours from Orlando, that last-minute availability is almost worthless, because who can get vacation time, flights, etc. to make that work? But 60-90 days that becomes a bit more of an option.

 

[Mouseforward]

Me too.

It’s the point renting. No lack of availability in the rental ads.

Do you think if it wasn’t rented that the owner of those points would just let them expire? The simple math is that there is an owner of every point and if it’s not the owner renting, it’s gonna be another owner booking. There are 52 weeks in a year and let’s say they stopped building and sold out. Everyone is still gonna want the first two weeks in December and they’re still gonna want certain holidays when the kids are off.

 

[Tatebeck]

Do you think if it wasn’t rented that the owner of those points would just let them expire? The simple math is that there is an owner of every point and if it’s not the owner renting, it’s gonna be another owner booking. There are 52 weeks in a year and let’s say they stopped building and sold out. Everyone is still gonna want the first two weeks in December and they’re still gonna want certain holidays when the kids are off.

They wouldn't want to let points expire, and in general almost all the points will be used, that is true. Whether by members or by Disney as breakage, etc.

But it could easily be argued that an increase in rentals and rental activity leads to an artificial increase in demand for studios specifically compared to the other rooms.

When members have a lot of points, they are more willing to book 1br, 2br, and even larger rooms for special events. From what I have seen, renters are often just looking to rent a DVC room because it works out to be cheaper than a hotel room. The hotel prices are so high that they can rent DVC studios for a substantial savings. And so the members who rent are largely booking studios, whether that is booking them ahead of time for confirmed reservations or in response to specific requests from possible renters.

So members renting can make the total number of studios larger. Basically the interest in studios of all DVC members alone is much smaller than the interest of DVC studios of all DVC members PLIUS interested renters. There may be 100s or 1000s of possible interested renters for each reservation posted for rent.

 

[Mouseforward]

They wouldn't want to let points expire, and in general almost all the points will be used, that is true. Whether by members or by Disney as breakage, etc.

But it could easily be argued that an increase in rentals and rental activity leads to an artificial increase in demand for studios specifically compared to the other rooms.

When members have a lot of points, they are more willing to book 1br, 2br, and even larger rooms for special events. From what I have seen, renters are often just looking to rent a DVC room because it works out to be cheaper than a hotel room. The hotel prices are so high that they can rent DVC studios for a substantial savings. And so the members who rent are largely booking studios, whether that is booking them ahead of time for confirmed reservations or in response to specific requests from possible renters.

So members renting can make the total number of studios larger. Basically the interest in studios of all DVC members alone is much smaller than the interest of DVC studios of all DVC members PLIUS interested renters. There may be 100s or 1000s of possible interested renters for each reservation posted for rent.

But surprisingly rental is not as efficient for studios. If you look at the prices on the big websites the rental prices for Studios are not a big discount off the current promotion price. Where is getting a two bedroom for a rental is way cheaper than a cash room.

I think DVC people are very point conscious which is why you see so many studios being added to new resorts. Many people thought Island Tower would have mostly one and two bedrooms. I was even surprised that they added more studios to the existing 300.

 

[Sandisw]

That's one change I would probably support. Cancellations within 60 or 90 days should probably go to holding rather than the 30 day policy in place today. For any DVC owners that live more than a few hours from Orlando, that last-minute availability is almost worthless, because who can get vacation time, flights, etc. to make that work? But 60-90 days that becomes a bit more of an option.

I’m not sure what you mean….that people should be penalized for canceling farther out?

How would that help availability? Once points are in holding you can book 60 days or less from check in.

If I had to cancel farther out, I’d be less likely to cancel and just accept the holding penalty closer to check in.

My guess is more people would do the same.

 

[Tatebeck]

But surprisingly rental is not as efficient for studios. If you look at the prices on the big websites the rental prices for Studios are not a big discount off the current promotion price. Where is getting a two bedroom for a rental is way cheaper than a cash room.

I think DVC people are very point conscious which is why you see so many studios being added to new resorts. Many people thought Island Tower would have mostly one and two bedrooms. I was even surprised that they added more studios to the existing 300.

Yeah they definitely seem to be adding more studios in the newer resorts as they are aware that studios are usually the hardest rooms to get.

Getting 2 studios is usually cheaper than getting 1 2BR, so truly $ conscious travelers will often want 2 studios for the savings. And usually 2 studios hold as many if not more than the 2BR does, so its even cheaper per person (if you max them out).

IMO point-wise studios are generally underpriced, 1BRs are way overpriced, and 2BR slightly overpriced. It also bugs me that there is a lockoff premium. Why should the exact same room cost more depending on whether the connecting door is used or not?!

 

[Tatebeck]

I’m not sure what you mean….that people should be penalized for canceling farther out?

How would that help availability? Once points are in holding you can book 60 days or less from checking.

If I had to cancel farther out, I’d be less likely to cancel and just accept the holding penalty closer to check in.

My guess is more people would do the same.

I could see it going that way for anyone fairly sure that they will be using the room. And then waiting until the last second to cancel if they don't. But I could also see some members who were doubtful whether or not they were going to use the room letting it go a bit earlier and making it easier for other members' waitlists to come through or to plan a last second trip. Interesting to think about for sure. I wonder which group would be the bigger of the two

 

[Sandisw]

I could see it going that way for anyone fairly sure that they will be using the room. And then waiting until the last second to cancel if they don't. But I could also see some members who were doubtful whether or not they were going to use the room letting it go a bit earlier and making it easier for other members' waitlists to come through or to plan a last second trip. Interesting to think about for sure. I wonder which group would be the bigger of the two

It would be interesting to see but I’d have to think any change that appears to be more punitive won’t go over as well, even if in practice it wouldn’t impact them.

What it would do though is put a bit more importance on UY since you’d want to be sure to give yourself time if holding could apply farther out.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

It would be interesting to see but I’d have to think any change that appears to be more punitive won’t go over as well, even if in practice it wouldn’t impact them.

What it would do though is put a bit more importance on UY since you’d want to be sure to give yourself time if holding could apply farther out.

why can’t points just expire 24 months after they are issued instead of members having to deal with this whole banking issue and the hassles that come with use year? They could keep use year for issuing points, but never understood why you had to have a 3 month loss period for banking points

 

[Sandisw]

why can’t points just expire 24 months after they are issued instead of members having to deal with this whole banking issue and the hassles that come with use year? They could keep use year for issuing points, but never understood why you had to have a 3 month loss period for banking points

Because points are representative of rooms and in order for a points based system to work, the balance has to be maintained.

It is why we saw the limit to borrowing reduced during COVID so the system was overloaded with points against rooms that were available.

So, the rules they currently have…which can be amended based on supply and demand…help to keep it in balance.

At one point, banking rules were different than today…

 

[Mirabell Rose]

Because points are representative of rooms and in order for a points based system to work, the balance has to be maintained.

It is why we saw the limit to borrowing reduced during COVID so the system was overloaded with points against rooms that were available.

So, the rules they currently have…which can be amended based on supply and demand…help to keep it in balance.

At one point, banking rules were different than today…

Not seeing the logic. Not all months are use years. If this was a balance issue all months would need to be use years.

 

[Sandisw]

Not seeing the logic. Not all months are use years. If this was a balance issue all months would need to be use years.

It’s based on booking patterns within a calendar year and how it balances against points in the system.

UY really doesn’t matter because the 8 UYs are set for all resorts.

So, having limits on how many points can move forward into the next 12 months, on a rolling basis is all that matters.

And that is how DVC monitors whether or not limits need to be put in place for banking and/or borrowing.

Allowing people to bank until the last minute might make it harder for them to predict whether the system would exceed the 1:1 points to room ratio at a rate much higher than borrowing would.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

It’s based on booking patterns within a calendar year and how it balances against points in the system.

UY really doesn’t matter because the 8 UYs are set for all resorts.

So, having limits on how many points can move forward into the next 12 months is all that matters.

And that is how DVC monitors whether or not limits need to be put in place for banking and/or borrowing.

Allowing people to bank until the last minute might make it harder for them to predict whether the system would exceed the 1:1 points to room ratio at a rate much higher than borrowing would.

There is no limit on points moving forward for an additional year with the exception of those that would need to cancel a reservation in the last 3 months of a use year for the last three months of the use year. Why penalize this? I disagree that these few instances would unbalance the system.

 

[Sandisw]

There is no limit on points moving forward for an additional year with the exception of those that would need to cancel a reservation in the last 3 months of a use year for the last three months of the use year. Why penalize this? I disagree that these few instances would unbalance the system.

There is no limit during the first 8 months because DVC has the information to support that doesn’t cause a supply and demand issue.

Why do you think DVC had to limit borrowing for two years? Because when the resorts shut down for three months, there was an over abundance of banked and current points so they couldn’t let people bring to many points forward

If the rules allowed banking to the end, then it could be a lot of points, not just a few

DVC has decided that giving owners 8 full months to bank points works to keep the system in check.

As I said, it used to be even stricter, with limits.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

There is no limit during the first 8 months because DVC has the information to support that doesn’t cause a supply and demand issue.

Why do you think DVC had to limit borrowing for two years? Because when the resorts shut down for three months, there was an over abundance of banked and current points so they couldn’t let people bring to many points forward

If the rules allowed banking to the end, then it could be a lot of points, not just a few

DVC has decided that giving owners 8 full months to bank points works to keep the system in check.

As I said, it used to be even stricter, with limits

‘Could be a lot of points’ does not mean it is a lot of points. Neither of us knows how many would be impacted. I tend to think it is very few points as most owners hate to lose points, so they likely only do this when they have a very unexpected event. There is no proof that DVC is intelligently doing this to ‘keep the system in check’. Every point that expires unused is $$ out of a member’s wallet and into Disney’s. I don’t think those who have the unexpected happen should lose those points and dollars. You can agree to disagree.