Plans have been filed for DVC expansion at Caribbean Beach Resort

[lockedoutlogic]

While I totally understand where you are coming from, either of those options will break the model too. I don't see them doing it. And, well, it will depend what they put into the resort. I can't see them selling for below $160.

I honestly think you're underestimating what an undertaking that will be. And how costly.

A view of the 9 minute fireworks from an otherwise junky property isn't gonna cut it.

Let me angle this another way: you have a choice of Caribbean or wilderness lodge at $180 a point...

...here endeth the lesson. What I'm saying - again - and we keep coming back to it...is that it doesn't stack up to the other DVCs built before or
Most likely after.

The new model is the only way this works.

And I prefer the Earl of sandwich in the Philly airport (not kidding)...now Ima really starting to wonder here...

 

[LaidBackDad]

I honestly think you're underestimating what an undertaking that will be. And how costly.

A view of the 9 minute fireworks from an otherwise junky property isn't gonna cut it.

Let me angle this another way: you have a choice of Caribbean or wilderness lodge at $180 a point...

...here endeth the lesson. What I'm saying - again - and we keep coming back to it...is that it doesn't stack up to the other DVCs built before or
Most likely after.

The new model is the only way this works.

And I prefer the Earl of sandwich in the Philly airport (not kidding)...now Ima really starting to wonder here...

Gotta say it... this is your misfire. The new CBR DVC will sell at $160 a point easy. Probably more like $180+ by the time they end up going on sale. You have to realize the new CBR is not going to be the one you have known. The location with easy park access alone makes it a bargain at that price. People will chose the new CBR over WL hands down. WL will have a hard time selling if the CBR DVC is announced too soon because people will wait to purchase at CBR. The CBR DVC will meet everyone of the deluxe "check marks" and will change the "feel" of the resort from what it is now. The new DVC tower will be priced a lot higher than the rest of the current resort; but, there is reason to believe the rest of the resort may even end up being reclassified as a deluxe resort with the rack room rates to match. The location and easy park access alone will make even the old portions of the resort more desirable / worthy of deluxe designation than OKW and SSR which only have access to DS. The current model will work perfectly fine especially since this will be the first Epcot area DVC in a long time. You may not like it or think it's worth it and I tend to agree with you; but, that doesn't mean the place won't sell out in record time. I'm not going off of what I think it's worth or how I feel about the property. I'm going off of what other deluxe properties with similar or even inferior amenities sold for. This isn't something you can just go with your gut on. The place will be very nice and very popular = expensive.

 

[DisFanDad]

I honestly think you're underestimating what an undertaking that will be. And how costly.

A view of the 9 minute fireworks from an otherwise junky property isn't gonna cut it.

Let me angle this another way: you have a choice of Caribbean or wilderness lodge at $180 a point...

...here endeth the lesson. What I'm saying - again - and we keep coming back to it...is that it doesn't stack up to the other DVCs built before or
Most likely after.

The new model is the only way this works.

And I prefer the Earl of sandwich in the Philly airport (not kidding)...now Ima really starting to wonder here...

Earl at WDW is the only i have ever had ... come down from Canada.

 

[AdamEfimoff]

I always wondered why they do not convert the pirate rooms into luxury rooms. Build a private pool there

 

[DisFanDad]

I honestly think you're underestimating what an undertaking that will be. And how costly.

A view of the 9 minute fireworks from an otherwise junky property isn't gonna cut it.

Let me angle this another way: you have a choice of Caribbean or wilderness lodge at $180 a point...

To be honest, even if they only offered a dedicated bus to EPCOT, I'd choose CBR. Love the grounds at that resort, the amenities left something to be desired, but we stayed in a refurbed room recently and really enjoyed that. But the quiet pools were, old, and the food court area left something to be desired after several trips to POR. But the grounds were beautiful. WL, reminds me WAY too much of home. We have a cottage a few hours north, I don't want that when I travel south. I WANT Caribbean, palms, beaches (even if I can't swim in them), pastel colours, etc., the trees and flowers there ... awesome. I'd pay 180 for CBR far, FAR, sooner than for WL. And that is absolute honesty. Of course, I would never buy anything but resale regardless, but, still

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I always wondered why they do not convert the pirate rooms into luxury rooms. Build a private pool there

Because Caribbean has nothing luxury about it.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

To be honest, even if they only offered a dedicated bus to EPCOT, I'd choose CBR. Love the grounds at that resort, the amenities left something to be desired, but we stayed in a refurbed room recently and really enjoyed that. But the quiet pools were, old, and the food court area left something to be desired after several trips to POR. But the grounds were beautiful. WL, reminds me WAY too much of home. We have a cottage a few hours north, I don't want that when I travel south. I WANT Caribbean, palms, beaches (even if I can't swim in them), pastel colours, etc., the trees and flowers there ... awesome. I'd pay 180 for CBR far, FAR, sooner than for WL. And that is absolute honesty. Of course, I would never buy anything but resale regardless, but, still

Ahhh...well played, sir...

I KNEW you were a Carib-ite!!!! You're Canadian...but is usually the BRITS that would flock there for 21 days at a clip. They couldn't get enough of the place. Must be something about commonwealth countries?

You just copped to the phenomenon I stated earlier in the thread: that somehow psychologically Caribbean equals a trip to Disney world AND the Caribbean. I don't agree at all...but that's not something I haven't seen before.

It's your place so I won't fight your opinion of it. Still doesn't justify many of the dvc stances...ok

Doesn't change that it's landlocked and takes an hour to take a bus to Epcot...ok

But my final question:

Poll some of those pesky/crotchety dvc owners around here with this:

Given equal prices/incentives/contract lengths/point charts, which would you choose to buy/book:

1. Wilderness lodge post Enhancements
2. Caribbean dvc with new dedicated amenties but no direct access.

What's your guess?

Now ask the same question but with new walkway/link of some sort

What's your guess?

 

[skier_pete]

Caribeban ain't worth anywhere close to $120...not even close.

I think if they want to sell it at $150+...you'll have to go with the Low point chart model.

Dude - they sell friggin AKV at $160 a point right now, what makes you think they'll sell a new DVC for less than ones with 10 years off their lease. Or even BWV and WLV which you can get a 25 year lease for $160 per point. Price per point is not going down.

 

[Sweettears]

Gotta say it... this is your misfire. The new CBR DVC will sell at $160 a point easy. Probably more like $180+ by the time they end up going on sale. You have to realize the new CBR is not going to be the one you have known. The location with easy park access alone makes it a bargain at that price. People will chose the new CBR over WL hands down. WL will have a hard time selling if the CBR DVC is announced too soon because people will wait to purchase at CBR. The CBR DVC will meet everyone of the deluxe "check marks" and will change the "feel" of the resort from what it is now. The new DVC tower will be priced a lot higher than the rest of the current resort; but, there is reason to believe the rest of the resort may even end up being reclassified as a deluxe resort with the rack room rates to match. The location and easy park access alone will make even the old portions of the resort more desirable / worthy of deluxe designation than OKW and SSR which only have access to DS. The current model will work perfectly fine especially since this will be the first Epcot area DVC in a long time. You may not like it or think it's worth it and I tend to agree with you; but, that doesn't mean the place won't sell out in record time. I'm not going off of what I think it's worth or how I feel about the property. I'm going off of what other deluxe properties with similar or even inferior amenities sold for. This isn't something you can just go with your gut on. The place will be very nice and very popular = expensive.

Yea but..... making a huge assumption that the park access is a given.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Dude - they sell friggin AKV at $160 a point right now, what makes you think they'll sell a new DVC for less than ones with 10 years off their lease. Or even BWV and WLV which you can get a 25 year lease for $160 per point. Price per point is not going down.

I didn't say I think they'll do that...

I'm sure they won't. I said what it's "worth".

And animal kingdom lodge is better than Caribbean by a factor of 50...it's one of the best properties they've ever built. It's also the last one they built.

Akv sold for an average of about $90-95 a point. That's pretty good deal.

If you buy any resale points from dvc you get screwed. It's hard to justify that. But you can't use the resell price as evidence...75% of the product at 200% the price?

Please, my brother...

 

[AdamEfimoff]

Because Caribbean has nothing luxury about it.

no i mean more like couple rooms for honeymoons etc

 

[AdamEfimoff]

I didn't say I think they'll do that...

I'm sure they won't. I said what it's "worth".

And animal kingdom lodge is better than Caribbean by a factor of 50...it's one of the best properties they've ever built. It's also the last one they built.

Akv sold for an average of about $90-95 a point. That's pretty good deal.

If you buy any resale points from dvc you get screwed. It's hard to justify that. But you can't use the resell price as evidence...75% of the product at 200% the price?

Please, my brother...

agree I think on the whole disney charges too much for the value and mods

 

[DisFanDad]

Ahhh...well played, sir...

I KNEW you were a Carib-ite!!!! You're Canadian...but is usually the BRITS that would flock there for 21 days at a clip. They couldn't get enough of the place. Must be something about commonwealth countries?

You just copped to the phenomenon I stated earlier in the thread: that somehow psychologically Caribbean equals a trip to Disney world AND the Caribbean. I don't agree at all...but that's not something I haven't seen before.

It's your place so I won't fight your opinion of it. Still doesn't justify many of the dvc stances...ok

Doesn't change that it's landlocked and takes an hour to take a bus to Epcot...ok

But my final question:

Poll some of those pesky/crotchety dvc owners around here with this:

Given equal prices/incentives/contract lengths/point charts, which would you choose to buy/book:

1. Wilderness lodge post Enhancements
2. Caribbean dvc with new dedicated amenties but no direct access.

What's your guess?

Now ask the same question but with new walkway/link of some sort

What's your guess?

A commonwealth thing or just a thing about people who spend months of the year in cold, snowy, dreary conditions with 8 hours of daylight or less

I'd guess most would say WL on the first ...

But you'd have a much more even split .... potentially even more towards CBR on the second.

 

[jade1]

Has anyone considered that this tower would violate the "can be scene from
Inside the park" doctrine?

That has been violated all
Of twice: the original design of contemporary...and Swan and dolphin which were outside built...

Think Caribbean shatters that glass
Ceiling next?

Yes, about 550 posts back.

Some kind of entrance to EPCOT yes, otherwise a Moderate DVC IMO. A tower looking into EPCOT sounds great, but from EPCOT might look odd. I would prefer "access" over height.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

A commonwealth thing or just a thing about people who spend months of the year in cold, snowy, dreary conditions with 8 hours of daylight or less

I'd guess most would say WL on the first ...

But you'd have a much more even split .... potentially even more towards CBR on the second.

My guess is 8/10 on the first 7/10 on the second...

Call me crazy - but you can't call my opinions "uninformed". I been on the hill in the trenches.

(Ps...Caribbean beach isn't like the Caribbean...neither the good stuff nor the bad...it's a bad 80's charicature of it...like a jimmy Buffett designed it)

And I love Canada...they've allowed me to honor and cherish lord Stanley's cup this year...and seem to be looking to extend the lease for at least one
More

 

[lockedoutlogic]

no i mean more like couple rooms for honeymoons etc

They have rooms designed with honeymooners In mind...

They are at the grand Floridian, animal kingdom, yacht club, beach club, and wilderness lodge...

I'm pretty sure I've been in at least one at all...

Honeymooners are spenders more or less...and putting them at a place that only offers OPR Pizza Delivery would be a "lost economic opportunity"

 

[lockedoutlogic]

agree I think on the whole disney charges too much for the value and mods

I think you made a wrong turn there.

Disney charges too much for all its rooms...but this was a dvc specific point.

 

[MommaBerd]

Personally, I like the idea of moderate suites...bigger/nicer than AoA suites. With my crew, those suites are not at all appealing in terms of sleeping arrangements. Yes, it's more space, but I'd honestly rather "squeeze" into a deluxe that sleeps 5. The deluxe has two *real* beds and a comfy (to my youngest) Murphy bed. I can't see how a pull-down table bed would be comfortable for two. Plus, and I know this may sound snobby, it's a value - the other amenities are just not there.

However, I wouldn't stay on property for more than 4-5 nights in a deluxe because at some point, we need our space. Our last trip that is what we did - stayed at BCR for 4 nights and then off-site 2BR for 5 nights.

On the other hand, Disney is missing out on the dollars that are being spent on rented DVC points. The cost to rent a studio or 1BR is more than the AoA suites, but the accommodations (and locations) are nicer, too. And people rent those points like crazy!

So, if Disney did moderate suites that are a step down from DVC and a step up from AoA, and priced it around the same cost to rent points, they could recapture those dollars and maybe entice those of us with "large" families to stay on property longer.

 

[Madonna3]

Yes...to you and your "quotees"...

See what a convoluted Pandora's this entire "canal" discussion is?

It's being marginalized to "minor" as if it's a given...not even close.

Until I see an announcement...the educated guess is that they have ZERO desire to rework the area to dredge canals to connect a dvc tower...

New buses? Sure...that's nothing.

Connect all the spots and put a boat to it? That would require a large scale cost increase at a moderate and a huge value complex...and I bet there are cracks in the bookings in those categories due to price already...and they would risk blowing it open like the deluxes.

There's a decent chance that's why this far fetched dvc in a moderate "pay no Mind to the man behind the curtain" is baked up in the first
Place...

If you're willing to pay $300 a night at port Orleans to get "free dining"...maybe they think your ok with "deluxe rate" at moderates and you are looking to throw $20-25,000 at them?

Membership is magical.

What's the hostility for? I've been on board this whole time that a canal is not an easy fix and that a connection to Epcot/DHS is unlikely.

You guys have actually done a good job to dissuade me from thinking this will be connected to EPCOT or DHS. But I think you are missing the larger picture regarding overhead / cost of the connection.

IF, and as I said you have convinced me its an unlikely if, they would probably be able to charge more in dues AND be able to increase the prices at CBR. I know you know the resort well, but if they could build in an extra, 10, 15, 20 a night on each of the rooms. Again, the people who rave about POR/POFQ's boat access to Downtown Disney are proof of this. Having stayed multiple times, the bus down is almost always much faster, esp from POR. And yet, watching the boards, facebook, travel sites, people rant and rave about how awesome having boat access to DTD is. Personally, I don't get it. If I want to go for a boat ride, cool, but as access to DTD, not even a park, I don't see it as an advantage, yet thousands of people seem to, and its one of the things people talk about as being worth the price difference between CBR and POR/FQ.

Personally, I love the boat service to DTD from POR. It's an alternative to the bus and I hate the bus. There's just something more appealing about a nice boat ride along the river (canal, whatever) with a soft breeze and taking in the sights as opposed to no less than half a dozen butts in my face. So yeah, I'd pay more. However, I think you haven't looked at prices in a while. For me, POR/FQ have been consistently CHEAPER than CBR by $15-$20/night which blows your whole hypothesis out of the proverbial water.

Gotta say it... this is your misfire. The new CBR DVC will sell at $160 a point easy. Probably more like $180+ by the time they end up going on sale. You have to realize the new CBR is not going to be the one you have known. The location with easy park access alone makes it a bargain at that price. People will chose the new CBR over WL hands down. WL will have a hard time selling if the CBR DVC is announced too soon because people will wait to purchase at CBR. The CBR DVC will meet everyone of the deluxe "check marks" and will change the "feel" of the resort from what it is now. The new DVC tower will be priced a lot higher than the rest of the current resort; but, there is reason to believe the rest of the resort may even end up being reclassified as a deluxe resort with the rack room rates to match. The location and easy park access alone will make even the old portions of the resort more desirable / worthy of deluxe designation than OKW and SSR which only have access to DS. The current model will work perfectly fine especially since this will be the first Epcot area DVC in a long time. You may not like it or think it's worth it and I tend to agree with you; but, that doesn't mean the place won't sell out in record time. I'm not going off of what I think it's worth or how I feel about the property. I'm going off of what other deluxe properties with similar or even inferior amenities sold for. This isn't something you can just go with your gut on. The place will be very nice and very popular = expensive.

Uh, whut? What easy park access???

Ahhh...well played, sir...

I KNEW you were a Carib-ite!!!! You're Canadian...but is usually the BRITS that would flock there for 21 days at a clip. They couldn't get enough of the place. Must be something about commonwealth countries?

You just copped to the phenomenon I stated earlier in the thread: that somehow psychologically Caribbean equals a trip to Disney world AND the Caribbean. I don't agree at all...but that's not something I haven't seen before.

It's your place so I won't fight your opinion of it. Still doesn't justify many of the dvc stances...ok

Doesn't change that it's landlocked and takes an hour to take a bus to Epcot...ok

But my final question:

Poll some of those pesky/crotchety dvc owners around here with this:

Given equal prices/incentives/contract lengths/point charts, which would you choose to buy/book:

1. Wilderness lodge post Enhancements
2. Caribbean dvc with new dedicated amenties but no direct access.

What's your guess?

Now ask the same question but with new walkway/link of some sort

What's your guess?

Wilderness Lodge each time. Wilderness Lodge doesn't have direct park access, but it has a nice boat ride. See POR.

 

[Madonna3]

On the other hand, Disney is missing out on the dollars that are being spent on rented DVC points. The cost to rent a studio or 1BR is more than the AoA suites, but the accommodations (and locations) are nicer, too. And people rent those points like crazy!

So, if Disney did moderate suites that are a step down from DVC and a step up from AoA, and priced it around the same cost to rent points, they could recapture those dollars and maybe entice those of us with "large" families to stay on property longer.

Point rental. There's a hot topic. I rent my points out and I hate it. I want to use them, but I can't because the DVC availability sucks. Do I think adding more DVC is going to alleviate that, especially if more studios are added? Yes. Do I think it will be alleviated by building DVC at CBR? No. However, Disney is not going to make CBR based off of current going rate of points because a: that is very subjective and b: points are valued based on rack rates. If I charge $20 a point and it's 20 points per night to stay there making it $400/night in points, but the rack is $350 then the rental of my points isn't such a great deal. So point values are in direct correlation to what Disney is charging per night at the rack rate.

Also, back in 2009, I remember that I got points for $9/point because the economy was in the toilet so owners were basically liquidating points. I got to stay at AKL in a savannah room for about $970 for a week. Rack rate at the time was $250. So, the points were worth about $13 at the time, but I was able to take advantage of someone else's bad situation and got it much cheaper so Disney can't use the rental market as a guide