Yuck On The Kid's Menus

[dismom9761]

I was skimming this thread and then decided to look at the kids menus on Allears.I think I am okay with the chioces I have made with my TS but I am really worried about the CS.At Pecos Bills,for example, I can get a burger but my DS9 and DD8 do not have that option.I am not worried about the desserts so much as their main meal.DD3 will be okay with the kids choices but I am going to have to budget for some OOP meals for the other two.They can't even get pizza at Pizzafari??? That is just plain WRONG to me.I think it is great to have healthy options but I can't see taking my kids into a pizza place and telling them pizza is not an option for them.

 

[englishrose47]

Just when you think you have kid's figured out !! Last night gave DGD a preview of menu choices at Concourse, which as we all know includes steak ... Macaroni and Cheese!!!! I swear it flows thru his veins!! I am a lot less concerned about Kid's choices other than the jello. Disney that needs to go !!

 

[bicker]

For sure they should be able to provide regular gelatin as well as SF for the same cost.

We'll just have to agree to disagree about that. I don't believe that there is any evidence that Disney would overlook such an opportunity, unless there was a cost impact that you haven't foreseen.

If I was the Queen of Disney Dining, I would consider decreasing the cost of the DDP a bit, make TS dinners include appetizer OR dessert, and drop the desserts from the CS.

These changes are ones that sound very plausible to me, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them make such changes, as time goes on.

 

[Madi100]

I don't think it would matter if we were on the dining plan or not, the kid's options stink. I know, my kids could share a regular meal. They don't NEED to get a child's meal. But, this is vacation, and I like to make everyone happy on vacation. We love Peco's Bills for the fixin's bar. The choices for my children - a sloppy joe or grilled chicken???? How about a burger? That place is a burger place, but my kids can't have one? Yes, I know to those critics of posts, they could order off the adult menu and have a burger. WHY wouldn't they have it on the child's menu? The servings in the kid's menu are just right.

Tusker House is another favorite. A drumstick or mac and cheese???

While Disney may be trying to promote healthy eating for the kids what they are doing is promoting the consumption of chicken nuggets and mac and cheese for picky kid eaters.

DH says we will have plenty of food that we can share, and he is correct. But I wonder if the person who is making the choices for the kids even has children? And Jell-o isn't healthy. It's sugar. And, while they do have sugar free, I don't buy sugar free stuff for my kids. I didn't put this post out there, because we are fretting and what are we going to do?? I put it out there, because the food choices stink for kids.

 

[seven dwarfs]

Madi100:
Thank you for saying what I feel and think so well. I couldn't have done it better. I often wonder if people who react to this plan have kids?? I hope it will become better in the future. My kids are disappointed but we will make the best of a bad deal.

 

[lisaanddenny]

I agree re: children's menus. I went on the free dining in 2005, and the children got to pick off of the adult menu, it was the first year of the free dining, so it was WONDERFUL. I agree there should be a child's menu but geesh, the choices are awful. Kids don't eat applesauce on vacation, or jello!

 

[bicker]

How about a burger? That place is a burger place, but my kids can't have one? Yes, I know to those critics of posts, they could order off the adult menu and have a burger. WHY wouldn't they have it on the child's menu?

This question is asked very often. You may want to search the archives for the more comprehensive answer, but, in a nutshell, many folks believe that this limitation exists because too many guests have intimidated CMs in the past into selling them child-sized burgers for teen and adult diners, because they wanted to save money. Since child meals are often super-discounted, based on the presumption that the eatery will make more money on the full-priced adult meals the rest of a young child's family orders, there was a big problem with adults ordering child meals. To preclude the nastiness involved in CMs having to say no, Disney has adjusted the choices available.

But I wonder if the person who is making the choices for the kids even has children?

I wouldn't think derrogatory things about folks just managing their business based on the behaviors of guests that they're confronted with. If you need to blame someone, keep an eye open for rude guests during your next visit -- they're as likely as not partially to blame for this situation.

And Jell-o isn't healthy. It's sugar.

The gelatin offered is sugar-free.

 

[Lewisc]

The followup question is how do the fast food restaurants offer burgers on the kids menu? Many of the fast food restaurants have a value or dollar menu where they offer small portions at a lower price and probably at a lower profit margin, to adults. Restaurants offsite are competing with other restaurants and may offer coupons, value menus and other promotional pricing. Customers that don't like Burger King pricing can go across the street to MacDonald's or Wendy's. Disney doesn't need to offer promotional pricing, guests understand it costs $$$ to eat on site. Disney is in the position to charge an extra few dollars per guest for the experience of dining on site.

The dining plan gives a break to guests who are will to pre-pay and commit to eating most of the meals in WDW restaurants.

This question is asked very often. You may want to search the archives for the more comprehensive answer, but, in a nutshell, many folks believe that this limitation exists because too many guests have intimidated CMs in the past into selling them child-sized burgers for teen and adult diners, because they wanted to save money. Since child meals are often super-discounted, based on the presumption that the eatery will make more money on the full-priced adult meals the rest of a young child's family orders, there was a big problem with adults ordering child meals. To preclude the nastiness involved in CMs having to say no, Disney has adjusted the choices available.

 

[bicker]

The followup question is how do the fast food restaurants offer burgers on the kids menu?

Ah! "Because they have to."

Restaurants offsite are competing with other restaurants and may offer coupons, value menus and other promotional pricing. Customers that don't like Burger King pricing can go across the street to MacDonald's or Wendy's.

Bingo.

 

[Katiebell]

The followup question is how do the fast food restaurants offer burgers on the kids menu?

Ah! "Because they have to."

Q: And why does Disney offer so few burgers for kids?
A: Because they don't have to. They have no competition.

The cost difference between offering a kids' burger and a sloppy joe at Pecos Bill's is nil. The ingredients and portions are virtually identical (a kid-sized bun, 2.5-3 oz of hamburger), both require preparation and packaging for service. In fact, since there are no sloppy joes for adults, the kids' meals require an entirely different prep method, the ingredients for the seasoning and sauce, a different method of storing the prepared mix, and different utensils for serving. If they served smaller burgers to the kids, they could simply slap them on the grill next to the adult's burgers.

Kid's burgers are offered at a couple of other Disney restaurants -- although they are very difficult to find -- so, yes, Disney has figured out a way to serve burgers to children without going bankrupt. I think Lewis has the most plausible explanation: Disney does not want adults to order cheaper kids' meals for themselves. It's very hard to police and enforce that -- often one parent orders for the whole family, and the other parent is finding a table with the children, so if the family is paying OOP, there is no way for the CM at the counter to know if kids meals are being ordered for children or adults. A kids' burger isn't served at Pecos Bills because adults going there to buy lunch want a burger. They might want a smaller cheaper burger, and be tempted to order off the kids' menu -- but they probably aren't in the mood for sloppy joes or chilled chicken. However, in Morocco at Tangierine, kids can get burgers or pizza. Why? Because adults aren't going to that restaurant with burgers or pizza in mind to purchase for themselves. They want lamb sharwarma, hummus, and couscous.

Disney spends huge volumes of money on seemingly frivolous things like designing garbage bins to go with the theme of an area. The cost difference to provide burgers over some of the less popular choices on every kids' menu at every CS at WDW would be a drop in the bucket to Disney. But evidently, Disney has decided the revenue lost from adults ordering kids' meals for themselves is enough to keep the choices on many of the kid's CS menus boring, unappealing, or not in keeping with the restaurant's theme (ie no burgers at Pecos Bill's, no pizza at Pizzafari). Even so, there are ways to get past the less appetizing choices and feed your kids decently, even well, at WDW -- but you have to be willing to learn the menus, and maybe the adults in the party may need to make compromises on their own restaurant choices.

Until your kids are 10 year old "adults" and order from the same menus you do.

 

[bicker]

The cost difference between offering a kids' burger and a sloppy joe at Pecos Bill's is nil.

This is not exactly true, but it is close-enough to true to be considered by everyone as true. However, that's also one of the reasons why things are the way they are.

Kid's burgers are offered at a couple of other Disney restaurants -- although they are very difficult to find -- so, yes, Disney has figured out a way to serve burgers to children without going bankrupt.

Bankruptcy was never the issue. The issue was getting full price for the value provided.

I think Lewis has the most plausible explanation: Disney does not want adults to order cheaper kids' meals for themselves. It's very hard to police and enforce that

And probably works against Disney's best interest to have to enforce it. I bet they upset guests less by not having the offering than they would by having to impose draconian and sometimes confrontational enforcement to ensure that adults aren't ordering child meals.

Disney spends huge volumes of money on seemingly frivolous things like designing garbage bins to go with the theme of an area. The cost difference to provide burgers over some of the less popular choices on every kids' menu at every CS at WDW would be a drop in the bucket to Disney.

Absolutely. Cost only matters when an operation isn't profitable. However, again, that's also one of the reasons why things are the way they are. People sometimes wonder why they can't get a half portion for half price -- again, the reason is because the value of the meal is pretty much the same regardless of how much food you get. You want a meal; you get a meal. For most people, giving you more than you want to eat right now doesn't do you much good, when you're eating in the middle of a theme park!

 

[Madi100]

Here's the thing. When we started going to WDW, we stayed at value resorts. We rented a towncar and made one stop at a grocery store and had snacks, fruit, soda, etc. As much as could be done without a kitchen. We did character meals, maybe two or three of them. The rest of the time, we ate counter service. We did what we could to save money. We ate breakfast in our room, we shared meals, and we really watched what we spent.

In December, we tried the dining plan. We spent more money on food then we ever have before. We really didn't even pay attention to how much we spent on food, because we thought we were saving money by doing the dining plan. (Not really, but it sounded like a good deal). What it gave us was the freedom to try new restaurants that we normally wouldn't have. For example, we ate at Alfredo's. I've always wanted to. We thought about it once before, but it was too expensive. $20 for a plate of food was a lot for me. but the dining plan is like the park hopper. We could survive without the park hopper, but it's nice to know we have options. We could still survive without the dining plan, but Disney is getting MORE of our money because we are doing the dining plan.

But, in order for me to continue to want to do the dining plan, it needs to be appealing. Currently we are DVC members. We will have groceries delivered to our resort, but limited because of the dining plan. As adults only in December the dining plan was wonderful. It needs to remain that way for us with children or we won't do it. While Disney has the right to feed us whatever they want and charge however much they want, we have the option of renting a car and dining off-site and eating in our room. To be quite honest, while I appreciate the thought of Disney trying to teach my children to eat healthy, they are going to have the opposite effect on my children I'm afraid. They will be eating chicken nuggets and hot dogs and mac and cheese at many places. While McDonald's offers apples and Wendy's offers oranges, we don't eat there every day. For my kids to eat carrots and carrots and carrots everyday for a week will get old.

 

[jodifla]

Here's the thing. When we started going to WDW, we stayed at value resorts. We rented a towncar and made one stop at a grocery store and had snacks, fruit, soda, etc. As much as could be done without a kitchen. We did character meals, maybe two or three of them. The rest of the time, we ate counter service. We did what we could to save money. We ate breakfast in our room, we shared meals, and we really watched what we spent.

In December, we tried the dining plan. We spent more money on food then we ever have before. We really didn't even pay attention to how much we spent on food, because we thought we were saving money by doing the dining plan. (Not really, but it sounded like a good deal). What it gave us was the freedom to try new restaurants that we normally wouldn't have. For example, we ate at Alfredo's. I've always wanted to. We thought about it once before, but it was too expensive. $20 for a plate of food was a lot for me. but the dining plan is like the park hopper. We could survive without the park hopper, but it's nice to know we have options. We could still survive without the dining plan, but Disney is getting MORE of our money because we are doing the dining plan.

But, in order for me to continue to want to do the dining plan, it needs to be appealing. Currently we are DVC members. We will have groceries delivered to our resort, but limited because of the dining plan. As adults only in December the dining plan was wonderful. It needs to remain that way for us with children or we won't do it. While Disney has the right to feed us whatever they want and charge however much they want, we have the option of renting a car and dining off-site and eating in our room. To be quite honest, while I appreciate the thought of Disney trying to teach my children to eat healthy, they are going to have the opposite effect on my children I'm afraid. They will be eating chicken nuggets and hot dogs and mac and cheese at many places. While McDonald's offers apples and Wendy's offers oranges, we don't eat there every day. For my kids to eat carrots and carrots and carrots everyday for a week will get old.

As a DVC member, I think the cost of the DDP is astronomical compared with what you could do cooking in your room.

We never get the DDP, we just eat where we want, and let DS order off the whole menu, not just the pathetic little menu that really should shame WDW (the CS offeres truly are THE WORST KIDS MENU EVER!)

And we spend no more than the DDP would cost us, and often, just a fraction of it..(we do get the DDE, though)

The DDP is becoming less of a deal every day, partically because of the relentless gaming of the system that's encouraged here on the Disboards.

 

[smarttm]

Did the DDP last Oct and just made ressies for free DDP in Sept. Having said that though I agree that the choices for the kids are terrible. The things that bother me the most are Pizzafari and Pecos Bills. How on earth do you take a kid into a pizza or burger place and then tell them they can't have either. I know there are many places to eat, but I feel that I need to commit each menu to memory so I can plan my day around the park and have a place to eat that will offer reasonable choices that my son will enjoy.

 

[TDC Nala]

I think the Pizzafari thing is due to the fact that the pizzas are premade and in one size only. The Food Network showed this fancy pizza machine they've got in the restaurant and it only produces one size of pizza. People often mention that they could cut the pizzas in half, but what if a kid got the half that had been sitting around? The parents would be having a fit because the pizza wasn't fresh.

Now if the kids want pizza on the dining plan, you can try Pizza Planet at MGM. They don't have a separate children's menu.

 

[kimmar067]

Most Table Service restaurants have at least five choices on the kids' menu - the three "standard" meals, or a choice between two appetizers, two or more entrees, and two desserts (so it's not all carrot sticks).

That said, the Dining Plan does NOT work for everyone. If your children will likely not eat from the available kids' menus, you may be better served just paying for everyone's food out of pocket.

...this is the dilemma my DBro' and his DW are having...why can't they pay for the Dining Plan (since they will be going to WDW in May) and just pay OOP for their 2 children??

 

[Katiebell]

Bankruptcy was never the issue. The issue was getting full price for the value provided.

Of course not. "Bankruptcy" was poetic license. I'll be more literal: Disney is making a profit selling kid-sized burgers at several of their restaurants. Providing burgers on those menus has not been so costly that they have stopped offering them. So it stands to reason that they could offer a child's hamburger at a restaurant that specializes in burgers and already has the appropriate equipment to prepare and serve them.

And probably works against Disney's best interest to have to enforce it. I bet they upset guests less by not having the offering than they would by having to impose draconian and sometimes confrontational enforcement to ensure that adults aren't ordering child meals.

Here's a really novel idea: what if Disney just stopped trying to enforce it at all? Very, very few adults will order a child's meal for themselves -- I would venture to say less than 5% of all adult guests. Sometimes they do, either to save money or for portion control. But most adults, even those who might order a kid's meal, do not dine alone at Disney, and will have other members of their party who order more food. So if an adult really, really wants to $4-$5 for a tiny burger, 10 french fries, a pack of teddy grahams, and a 6 oz sippy cup of apple juice, why not just let them? I do not believe for a minute that Disney is losing money on their kids' meals. They may be making less of a profit than they do on adult meals, but they aren't losing money, and they could afford the small percentage of adult guests who would order from the children's menu. If they want to save money in the Food and Beverage budget, they should get serious about separating the adult and child CS credits to stop "creative" interpretations of the rules.

 

[bicker]

why can't they pay for the Dining Plan (since they will be going to WDW in May) and just pay OOP for their 2 children??

The Dining Plan rules require that everyone in the room must be on the Dining Plan (or none at all). There is, however, nothing preventing folks from paying OOP for extras. However, if folks are going to do that a lot, they are better off without the Dining Plan entirely.

 

[bicker]

So it stands to reason that they could offer a child's hamburger at a restaurant that specializes in burgers and already has the appropriate equipment to prepare and serve them.

You're not going far enough in your analysis. Disney's managers must make their decisions by asking the question, "Which way does Disney make more money long-term?" There are folks there who's primary mission is to ensure that they're constantly answering that question accurately, and structuring their operations in response to the answer to that question. Practically nothing is as simple as it seems, ever, with anything.

Here's a really novel idea: what if Disney just stopped trying to enforce it at all?

That's a very customer-biased perspective. It ignores the negative impact on owners. Again, Disney's managers don't have that luxury of taking such license. They have a fiduciary responsibility they have to live up to.

So if an adult really, really wants to $4-$5 for a tiny burger, 10 french fries, a pack of teddy grahams, and a 6 oz sippy cup of apple juice, why not just let them?

Because the pricing model is likely based on the assumption that folks over the age of 9 will pay for full-priced meals.

They may be making less of a profit than they do on adult meals, but they aren't losing money

How much money are you saving each month? 5%, maybe 10%? Why not take that much less salary? You wouldn't be "losing money", by your definition.

If they want to save money in the Food and Beverage budget, they should get serious about separating the adult and child CS credits to stop "creative" interpretations of the rules.

There is a cost associated with that. If the abuse becomes onerous enough, we'll probably see that happen as well, or perhaps we'll see them simply increase the cost of the Dining Plan, and remove the restriction for CS. Then we can enjoy reading all of the complaints about that here on the DIS.

 

[Lewisc]

Here's a really novel idea: what if Disney just stopped trying to enforce it at all? Very, very few adults will order a child's meal for themselves -- I would venture to say less than 5% of all adult guests. ....... So if an adult really, really wants to $4-$5 for a tiny burger, 10 french fries, a pack of teddy grahams, and a 6 oz sippy cup of apple juice, why not just let them? .....

Assume the kids menu resembles the adult menu but is properly portioned for an 8-9 year old. That means a small not a tiny burger. That means a small soda not a sippy cup of apple juice. Your 5% number is very low. A number of guide books suggested purchasing kids meals (for adults) in order to save money. Some of us speculate that might have been one of the reasons Disney changed the menus.

Disney could simply increse the cost of the kids meal, make it a dollar less then the adult CS meal and let anyone order it. I don't think that would make parents happy.