United Airlines Kills a Dog

[SirDuff]

I've definitely heard that on landing. Maybe I'm just remembering a particularly bumpy flight where we were asked not to open them while the seat belt light was on or something?? - I admit I wouldn't really think much about it, because I always put the things I want for the flight in my smaller under-seat bag, and my overhead carry-on just has the stuff I need after I get there. Good to know I would usually have the option, though!

Well, you shouldn't be standing while the seat belt light is on (since your seat belt should be on), so opening the bins shouldn't even be a question! Unless you have really, really long arms and can open the bin while seated

 

[Pacolovestacos]

Well, you shouldn't be standing while the seat belt light is on (since your seat belt should be on), so opening the bins shouldn't even be a question! Unless you have really, really long arms and can open the bin while seated

 

[asta]

This sounds like a terrible incident. But I do have a question. What should happen if the dog carrier is too big to fit under the seat? Someone mentioned that it was too big and partially in the aisle. The way I see it is that there is no way it could remain there. Even partially blocking the aisle could put the other passengers at risk in an emergency. The dog had to go somewhere and if the flight is full where would it go without infringing on other passengers. The mistake was most likely made at the gate. She should not have been allowed to board with the dog.

 

[sam_gordon]

I get that we don’t have all the facts & can’t blame anyone officially yet, but that’s no accident.

If it's not an accident, wouldn't that mean it was intentional? I have a hard time believing that.

While it may be United's policy, I wonder how much that (not putting pets in overheads) is stressed. I'm guessing the FA just blanked and thought "doesn't fit under the seat? It needs to go in the overhead." That doesn't mean the FA isn't responsible, and I'm guessing she's feeling pretty bad about it.

 

[kamik86]

This sounds like a terrible incident. But I do have a question. What should happen if the dog carrier is too big to fit under the seat? Someone mentioned that it was too big and partially in the aisle. The way I see it is that there is no way it could remain there. Even partially blocking the aisle could put the other passengers at risk in an emergency. The dog had to go somewhere and if the flight is full where would it go without infringing on other passengers. The mistake was most likely made at the gate. She should not have been allowed to board with the dog.

I would agree with that. If a pet doesn't fit under the seat my understanding is that it can't fly in the cabin.

If that is the case then when this was noticed they should have had to leave. Someone else asked if they should have delayed the flight to do so and yes if the gate agents messed up and let them board and the FA messed up and didn't realize until they started Taxing then yes they should have gone back and delayed the flight. As much as a delayed flight is annoying that would have been the proper answer because all other solutions as you stated above were a risk to either the dog or passengers due to blocking aisles.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

If it's not an accident, wouldn't that mean it was intentional? I have a hard time believing that.

Gross negligence

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

If it's not an accident, wouldn't that mean it was intentional? I have a hard time believing that.

While it may be United's policy, I wonder how much that (not putting pets in overheads) is stressed. I'm guessing the FA just blanked and thought "doesn't fit under the seat? It needs to go in the overhead." That doesn't mean the FA isn't responsible, and I'm guessing she's feeling pretty bad about it.

How about it was avoidable?

 

[LSUmiss]

If it's not an accident, wouldn't that mean it was intentional? I have a hard time believing that.

While it may be United's policy, I wonder how much that (not putting pets in overheads) is stressed. I'm guessing the FA just blanked and thought "doesn't fit under the seat? It needs to go in the overhead." That doesn't mean the FA isn't responsible, and I'm guessing she's feeling pretty bad about it.

Personally I don’t believe negligence is an accident (although not intentional). Negligence means you should have known better.

 

[undertheradar]

Why was the 11 year old daughter being interviewed? The mother was sitting right next to her.

 

[QueenIsabella]

Okay, in 2015, we moved 800 miles away, and we had to fly down 4 pets. We bought 2 carriers, and did it in stages. Now, we flew American, so I can only attest to what they did/required of us, but here goes:

(1) We paid $125 per pet for the privilege. In addition, you give up your carry-on by bringing on your pet.
(2) The pet must be in an FAA-approved, soft-sided carrier that fits under the seat in front of you. The pet must weigh less than 25 pounds.
(3) Pets must come out of the carrier to go through security. I had to carry our cat through the scanner. As an aside, I stuck behind a guy who (naturally) had to try about 6 times before he got pulled out of line. All while holding a large, scared cat in a crowded airport.
(4) For one leg of our trip, we were on a puddle-jumper flight. We were still required (and able) to put our pets under the seat.
(5) We had to provide some vet paperwork (vaccine records, maybe?) before boarding
(6) Only so many pets are allowed onboard each flight, so we had to book way in advance. You get special boarding papers that you have to present when you check in.

I want to emphasize--all of the above was fully spelled out on American's website. Things might have changed a bit in 3 years, but I don't see them getting less strict about pet travel. You can't just decide today that you want to fly your pet to Aunt Hilda's for a visit tomorrow.

I don't believe for a second that the FA didn't know they had a dog, or thought she was doing the right thing. She may well have been trying to do the expedient thing to get the plane onto the runway, and may not have realized that the dog could die. She should have taken a few extra seconds to find another bag that could go into the overhead bin, to make room for the dog under the seat. And even that surprises me--IME, it's the overhead bins that get filled up quickly, not so much the floor.

 

[fhtpdw20]

Flame suit on! Planes are for transporting people period. Animals are a safety hazard, crated or uncrated. I do not want to have the possibility of allergic reaction to dander, animal picking up fleas or ticks in an area unfamiliar to owner attending their animals toileting needs, animal air sickness, toileting accidents on board, or nervous animal that would not normally bite snapping at someone. We all know that planes are not cleaned between flights. Then what if something were to happen and the plane would have to be evacuated. Do you think anyone is going to worry about your pet if their life is endangered? Is the airline responsible for saving your pet? Leave your animals at home where they belong.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This sounds like a terrible incident. But I do have a question. What should happen if the dog carrier is too big to fit under the seat? Someone mentioned that it was too big and partially in the aisle. The way I see it is that there is no way it could remain there. Even partially blocking the aisle could put the other passengers at risk in an emergency. The dog had to go somewhere and if the flight is full where would it go without infringing on other passengers. The mistake was most likely made at the gate. She should not have been allowed to board with the dog.

If something is against policy, which according to United it def. is, the FA shouldn't have suggested it and the issue should have been dealt with prior to being in the air. The dog didn't have to go somewhere on that flight if it meant breaking United's policy.

No the mistake was the FA suggesting the overhead bin space. If the FA had denied the passenger a seat on the plane if the dog carrier was too big but the gate agent hadn't noticed or advised the carrier was acceptable then the mistake would be on the gate agent but the passenger still wouldn't have been able to fly unless the dog was able to be in the cargo space or if not the cargo space the passenger would need to make alternative arrangements. In terms of the cargo space there is probably a time cut off point where if the animal is not there then it cannot fly on that particular flight-don't know that for sure just guessing here. Airlines don't and shouldn't have an issue with delaying a plane, even going back to the gate if need be, if it ensures they are in compliance with their own policies especially given they are dealing with a live animal.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Flame suit on! Planes are for transporting people period. Animals are a safety hazard, crated or uncrated. I do not want to have the possibility of allergic reaction to dander, animal picking up fleas or ticks in an area unfamiliar to owner attending their animals toileting needs, animal air sickness, toileting accidents on board, or nervous animal that would not normally bite snapping at someone. We all know that planes are not cleaned between flights. Then what if something were to happen and the plane would have to be evacuated. Do you think anyone is going to worry about your pet if their life is endangered? Is the airline responsible for saving your pet? Leave your animals at home where they belong.

It's not a flame but your point is just moot period and isn't really what the thread is about-meaning pet or no pets on board but I can see if you wanted to create a new thread on the topic.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Sorry...tragic accident my butt! The airline failed!

The Flight Attendant failed, and the airline is accepting responsibility for its employee's failure. Not the same thing.

She should have taken a few extra seconds to find another bag that could go into the overhead bin, to make room for the dog under the seat.

Under-seat space is finite. Mother and daughter each had the same under-seat space. If the carrier didn't fit fully under one, it wouldn't have fit fully under the other, or any seat.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

The Flight Attendant failed, and the airline is accepting responsibility for its employee's failure. Not the same thing.

A difference without distinction. The flight attendant represents the airline and as such, when the FA fails, the airline fails.

 

[QueenIsabella]

The Flight Attendant failed, and the airline is accepting responsibility for its employee's failure. Not the same thing.

Under-seat space is finite. Mother and daughter each had the same under-seat space. If the carrier didn't fit fully under one, it wouldn't have fit fully under the other, or any seat.

But if it was FAA-approved, it should have fit. Ours did, even on the puddle-jumper flight. Plus, it's a soft-sided carrier, so there would be some squishability (if that's a word). That's why hard-sided carriers aren't allowed in the main cabin--they wouldn't fit at all.

Fhtpdw20--You are free to petition the airlines to try to disallow pets on airplanes. Good luck. Right now, it's allowed, albeit expensive. I fail to see how a crated animal is a safety hazard--they are not able to escape, bite, spread pestilence and vermin, or whatever you imagine they're doing. We did have one cat that yowled the entire journey (an hour car ride and 2 flights), even with anti-anxiety meds onboard. It was no picnic for anyone, but what are you going to do? We were moving--leaving our pets "home" simply wasn't an option.

 

[piccolopat]

Reading further into the United policy, there are certain pet restrictions that would exclude breeds like this French bulldog unless the animal was less than 6 months of age and under 20 pounds. Now this restriction may be for animal that go into the cargo area but if there is a health risk to that breed in the cargo hold (which is supposed to be pressurized same as the passenger cabin), I would think the restriction should also apply to the same animal that is brought on board as carryon. It sounds like the airlines need to do a lot more to clarify their policies.

 

[FutureDisneyEventPlanner]

I have a puppy, 4 months and adorable, but that's besides the point. Lol. You could stick a gun to my head and that still wouldn't make me put her in an overhead bin. You wouldn't put a baby or a toddler in an overhead bin, so you shouldn't stick ANY living-breathing creature in one. It is dark, hot, and there is no air circulation.

The family stated the dog barked for two hours straight and they couldn't check on it due to "turbulence". I find it hard to believe their was turbulence for two hours straight. You're allowed to open an overhead bin on any airline, as long as you are careful.

I think the family was just being negligent. They should have spoken to someone else or gotten off the plane. There were other options.

 

[katie111]

From a report I read, the mother did not speak English which added to the confusion. I also think that was why they were interviewing the daughter and not her. And she had a baby on her lap so could not stand up during the turbulence.

 

[sam_gordon]

But if it was FAA-approved, it should have fit. Ours did, even on the puddle-jumper flight. Plus, it's a soft-sided carrier, so there would be some squishability (if that's a word). That's why hard-sided carriers aren't allowed in the main cabin--they wouldn't fit at all.

I'm not sure that "FAA Approved" means it must fit under the seats. Here's United's rules on size:

In-cabin pet kennels
A pet traveling in cabin must be carried in an approved hard-sided or soft-sided kennel. The kennel must fit completely under the seat in front of the customer and remain there at all times. The maximum dimensions for hard-sided kennels are 17.5 inches long x 12 inches wide x 7.5 inches high (44 cm x 30 cm x 19 cm). The recommended maximum dimensions for soft-sided kennels are 18 inches long x 11 inches wide x 11 inches high (46 cm x 28 cm x 28 cm). Soft-sided pet carriers may exceed these dimensions slightly, as they are collapsible and able to conform to under-seat space without blocking the aisle

To me, that means there's ~7.50-8" of height clearance under the seat. It's been stated earlier that the carrier in question did NOT fit under the seat (which would be why it was sticking in the aisle). How tall would the dog have been? Figure a sheet of paper is 8.5" wide.