Please Don't Bash The DDP!

[apostolic4life]

I don't see why it is hard to understand. Many that go to Disney and stay in the Value resorts pay rack rate. These are guests who do not frequent forums such as this one or others and more than likely get no discount on their rooms, expect possibly AAA.

However they do see the mass marketing that Disney does for the DDP and thier other promotions.

Prior to the DDP, many of these guests did not eat any Table Service meals at all their entire stay. They might have even eaten only one CS per day. They brought food with them from home, and ate in thier rooms. They brought toasters and even microwaves to cook on in their rooms.

Now with the DDP, many of these guests can afford to eat out and especially during free dining.

WOW!!!!! Seems a little harsh & judgemental, but if I am misunderstanding your tone please correct me. DW and I rotate our stays amongst the different types of resort for the sake of variety. We stay at value, moderate and deluxe, and we do it without bringing toasters and microwaves or hording food in coolers so we can eat in our rooms. We frequent these boards and we research our trips extensively. To assume otherwise just because we stay in a value and/or use the DDP is (dare I say it) a little elitist in tone. When one refers to others as "they" it sounds a little divisive. I have been to WDW with and without the DDP and I have stayed in all levels of resort, this does not make me better than anyone or lower than anyone; it just makes me.......me, a Disney loving guy who would love it if everyone eventually got to go to WDW and take home some of the magic. We are all Disney lovers or we would not be on this forum..........let's remember the magic and respect all people and opinions.

Ok, I will get off the soap box now.

 

[Sammie]

WOW!!!!! Seems a little harsh & judgemental, but if I am misunderstanding your tone please correct me. DW and I rotate our stays amongst the different types of resort for the sake of variety. We stay at value, moderate and deluxe, and we do it without bringing toasters and microwaves or hording food in coolers so we can eat in our rooms. We frequent these boards and we research our trips extensively. To assume otherwise just because we stay in a value and/or use the DDP is (dare I say it) a little elitist in tone. When one refers to others as "they" it sounds a little divisive. I have been to WDW with and without the DDP and I have stayed in all levels of resorts this does not make me better than anyone or lower than anyone; it just makes me.......me, a Disney loving guy who would love it if everyone eventually got to go to WDW and take home some of the magic. We are all Disney lovers or we would not be on this forum..........let's remember the magic and respect all people and opinions.

Ok, I will get off the soap box now.

You have it all wrong, in fact your comment is reverse elitist. My comment is in response to Jodifla who stated:

I don't understand the ridiculous notion that people couldn't afford to eat at WDW before, but they CAN shell out tons of money upfront for the DDP all while paying RACK RATE for their rooms

I explained how it is that some can pay rack rate but until the DDP came along were not eating out that often. I don't believe anywhere in my comments did I say everyone that stays value eats in their room, you assumed that. But many do. As far as calling someone, they, please pray tell what does one call someone.

As I said many guests to Disney do not visit these forums and after paying rack rate do try very hard to save on their meals and until the DDP did not eat that many Table Service meals.

I absolutely can not see how you could have taken my comments to be elitist.

In my opinion everyone is entitled to do Disney however they want and can afford. Makes no difference to me. But I am fully aware of how many do go to Disney on a very tight budget and that was the jest of comments.

Basically you misunderstood. For all you know I might be someone that has done exactly what I described.

 

[apostolic4life]

I don't believe anywhere in my comments did I say everyone that stays value eats in their room, you assumed that.

These were your words:

Prior to the DDP, many of these guests did not eat any Table Service meals at all their entire stay. They might have even eaten only one CS per day. They brought food with them from home, and ate in thier rooms. They brought toasters and even microwaves to cook on in their rooms.

It is difficult to always accurately assess the tone when reading a post so that is why I asked for correction if I was misreading the intended tone. Thank you for clearing up your intention........now I know. I hope you can understand how I was able to perceive the tone I did.......I took your overall post as slight towards those who stay in value resorts; my mistake.

You have it all wrong, in fact your comment is reverse elitist.

I am not sure I understand this statement..........what is reverse elitist??

Many that go to Disney and stay in the Value resorts pay rack rate. These are guests who do not frequent forums such as this one or others and more than likely get no discount on their rooms, expect possibly AAA.

The highlighted portion of the above quote seems to be an opinion beingg stated as a fact......if you stay in a value does that mean you have not frequented forums such as the DIS?? I know many people who frequent this board and stay at value resorts.

In my opinion everyone is entitled to do Disney however they want and can afford. Makes no difference to me. But I am fully aware of how many do go to Disney on a very tight budget and that was the jest of comments.

Basically you misunderstood. For all you know I might be someone that has done exactly what I described.

I fully agree with you here on all points (including my misunderstanding). I hope the way I have gone through this you will see how I got the wrong tone from your post........thanks for the clarification!!!

 

[jodifla]

I don't see why it is hard to understand. Many that go to Disney and stay in the Value resorts pay rack rate. These are guests who do not frequent forums such as this one or others and more than likely get no discount on their rooms, expect possibly AAA.

However they do see the mass marketing that Disney does for the DDP and thier other promotions.

Prior to the DDP, many of these guests did not eat any Table Service meals at all their entire stay. They might have even eaten only one CS per day. They brought food with them from home, and ate in thier rooms. They brought toasters and even microwaves to cook on in their rooms.

Now with the DDP, many of these guests can afford to eat out and especially during free dining.

Hey, I did MANY years of staying in Days Inns, eating at IHOP, having snacks and other meals in the room, then spending the day at the Magic Kingdom. But even in my poor days, I had money to go into a WDW restaurant and get an iced tea and an entree. It's never been THAT expensive, for heaven's sake.

And I certainly didn't commit myself to the EXTRAVAGANCE of a TS meal every night, with appetizer, entree and dessert. That's a lot of money up front. THAT's what I don't get.

 

[Sammie]

Hey, I did MANY years of staying in Days Inns, eating at IHOP, having snacks and other meals in the room, then spending the day at the Magic Kingdom. But even in my poor days, I had money to go into a WDW restaurant and get an iced tea and an entree. It's never been THAT expensive, for heaven's sake.

And I certainly didn't commit myself to the EXTRAVAGANCE of a TS meal every night, with appetizer, entree and dessert. That's a lot of money up front. THAT's what I don't get.

Then that is an understandable question.

 

[Sammie]

These were your words:



It is difficult to always accurately assess the tone when reading a post so that is why I asked for correction if I was misreading the intended tone. Thank you for clearing up your intention........now I know. I hope you can understand how I was able to perceive the tone I did.......I took your overall post as slight towards those who stay in value resorts; my mistake.



I am not sure I understand this statement..........what is reverse elitist??



The highlighted portion of the above quote seems to be an opinion beingg stated as a fact......if you stay in a value does that mean you have not frequented forums such as the DIS?? I know many people who frequent this board and stay at value resorts.




I fully agree with you here on all points (including my misunderstanding). I hope the way I have gone through this you will see how I got the wrong tone from your post........thanks for the clarification!!!

I guess to me it is hard to understand why anyone places tone on forum posts. It's just something I never do and I never assume. I read and I take each word literally never, ever reading into, or between the lines.

I guess to me it would be like saying there are people who live in FL. that are drug addicts and that would be true. But surely you would not assume I meant everyone that lives in FL. is a drug addict.

To me a reverse elitist is someone that puts down someone because they presume that person is putting someone down.

Anyway, thanks for making an attempt to understand, that is more than some would do.

But it is a fact many stay at the value resorts out of choice, many stay out of financial necessity. There is nothing wrong with either choice, simply fact.

I just personally happen to think that some people that do not wisely shop for vacation values, hence my comment about Net forums, do not get discounts on rooms, pay rack rate and think the DDP is a huge value. Based on info shared to be my friends that work for Disney, this affects those that stay at values more than moderates or deluxe resorts. Just as with Free Dining if paying rack rate the bargain is had by staying at value, definitely not deluxe.

And as Jodi pointed it out that simply might not be the case as to the true value of the DDP for some.

 

[LizinSTL]

Hey, I did MANY years of staying in Days Inns, eating at IHOP, having snacks and other meals in the room, then spending the day at the Magic Kingdom. But even in my poor days, I had money to go into a WDW restaurant and get an iced tea and an entree. It's never been THAT expensive, for heaven's sake.

And I certainly didn't commit myself to the EXTRAVAGANCE of a TS meal every night, with appetizer, entree and dessert. That's a lot of money up front. THAT's what I don't get.

A WDW vacation IS an extravagance in and of itself. It's a vacation. It's an extra.

Staying in a clean, motel room near Disney plus a rental car (or hotel w/ shuttle service) and airport shuttle and an entree for each member of my party plus a soft drink (or even just cs a couple times a day at the theme parks) would fast approach the full cost of a MYW package with the dining plan. I'm cheap. I see no reason to pay more than $100/night for a hotel room. In fact, it makes me a little sick to my stomach to think of people spending $600+/night for a MK view.

The DDP can be an incredible value for an infrequent out of state visitor who is flying to Orlando for their trip. Sure- they are likely paying rack rate... so what?! They wouldn't qualify for much better than a AAA discount anyway. If they aren't visiting again within a year, there's no reason for an AP. If they aren't staying 10 days, there's no reason for an AP. Not everyone is comfortable with the idea of renting DVC points from a stranger. Not everyone likes the idea of semi-weekly housekeeping @ DVC. There's never been a pin code attached to my name for a discount on a room. The best I can hope for is a public code for discounted packages (free upgraded tickets/free dining, etc)

There are other (maybe better) options for other types of visitors- frequent visitors (2x/year or more), DVC owners, AP holders, FL residents, etc but for someone who wants to really experience WDW and still keep the budget under control, then a MYW vacation package can help.

We visited the same week as a neighbor family last year. They spent a similar amount of $ as us but they didn't do any TS meals- spent a lot of time driving off-site to get fast food- and in general, just didn't enjoy their vacation as much. They won't be going back in the near future. We had a blast. From the Magical Express to the DDP- it was all a treat. We can't wait to return. Can a family of 2 A and 2 C spend less than $700 for a weeks worth of food at WDW??? Absolutely. Can they enjoy 5 character meals and a couple steak dinners plus another 7 counter service meals for 4 for $700 ? Doubt it......

 

[marivaid]

I don't see why it is hard to understand. Many that go to Disney and stay in the Value resorts pay rack rate. These are guests who do not frequent forums such as this one or others and more than likely get no discount on their rooms, expect possibly AAA.

You seem to forget that the majority of people who go to Disney do not qualify for a discount.

No FL Resident rate. No AP (unless we want to spend the extra $200 for an AP we'll only use once).
Heck since we're not US residents we don't even qualify for AAA.

We pay rack rate because it's the only rate available to us.
And the DDP is pretty much the only deal we can get at Disney.

 

[gina2000]

Thanks for the kind words, Peter Pirate! I'm glad someone is reading my posts!

Truly, if the change in the DDP comes to pass, I do believe that servers will be stiffed, intentionally or unintentionally. People won't necessarily be carrying large amounts of cash with them and may find themselves short. Who loses out? The servers. Also, people that are unaquainted with tipping practices also may unintentionally not leave an adequate tip. And, of course, there is the group who just doesn't tip.

As far as a "class system" is concerned, I've stayed everywhere from deluxe to value (our latest find is "Pop". We love it!) We don't spend any time in our room; therefore it's a waste to pay up for amenities. But I do spend time in restaurants so that's where I put my money. So I find it hard to accept that people are talking about a class system based on where one stays.

I guarantee everyone would be complaining about dirty rooms or unacceptable conditions in a hotel based on their personal needs and preferences. So why is it not acceptable to make those same complaints about restaurant quality? They're both opinions about changes.

 

[apostolic4life]

I guess to me it is hard to understand why anyone places tone on forum posts. It's just something I never do and I never assume. I read and I take each word literally never, ever reading into, or between the lines.

This is a fine statement to make, but whenever a person comes to a board and posts an ambiguous statement with little explanation as to their point of view it can cause misunderstanding. That is why my post are often very thorough, fully expounded and long . I do not want to leave my opinions and point of view open for incorrect interpretation by strangers. Clarity in ones words can deflect inference of incorrect intention. Just my two cents on that.

I guess to me it would be like saying there are people who live in FL. that are drug addicts and that would be true. But surely you would not assume I meant everyone that lives in FL. is a drug addict.

Nor would any reasonable person make that assumption. In an attempt to make others look foolish, over simplified analogies often are used as a tool to make one seem a little smarter than others (i.e. Ross Perot so many years ago). Clearly stating a thought or idea through carefully crafted verbal expression allows for better understanding amongst this forum community. Most people have posted to this thread without me misunderstanding their intentions, so I am pretty sure the one or two with whom I have not properly understood, and asked for clarification, could shoulder partial responsibility with me for the misunderstanding. Some though will never admit to such a thing.

To me a reverse elitist is someone that puts down someone because they presume that person is putting someone down.

At what point did I put you down??? I have reread my post and have not found this "putting down" you refer to. Matter of fact, I asked you to correct me in the event I was mistaken about your tone. That seems more humble than "reverse elitist", but I could be wrong since it is so hard to see things clearly from my position (looking down on everyone from my lofty perch) . Forgive me for inflecting tone and humor, I just couldn't resist. Oh, by the way if standing up for others and defending those who may not stand up for themselves is "reverse elitist", I will gladly wear that moniker!

Anyway, thanks for making an attempt to understand, that is more than some would do.

Anytime........I wish people would take the time to concern themselves with how what they write could be perceived by others. Whether we mean to or not, based on the way we word the posts on a thread and our timing in adding to a thread, tone or intention can be applied by the reader.

But it is a fact many stay at the value resorts out of choice, many stay out of financial necessity. There is nothing wrong with either choice, simply fact.

Absolutely, could not agree more!!

I just personally happen to think that some people that do not wisely shop for vacation values, hence my comment about Net forums, do not get discounts on rooms, pay rack rate and think the DDP is a huge value. Based on info shared to be my friends that work for Disney, this affects those that stay at values more than moderates or deluxe resorts. Just as with Free Dining if paying rack rate the bargain is had by staying at value, definitely not deluxe.

Even people who use these forums often do not get many discounts unless the powers that be offer them for a special promotion or some other motivating factor. DW and I have never qualified for any discount tht was not available to the general public. If you have some code we do not have, please share!!! As for value, I would never be so bold as to define value for others. I find value in things many do not; many find value in things I do not......it's all based on your personal perspective and perception of what a value is.

And as Jodi pointed it out that simply might not be the case as to the true value of the DDP for some.

Again, each person should be allowed to decide value for themselves. To eliminate the DDP as Jodi has advocated would not be the proper solution because it would not guarantee the outcome she desires (an increase in food quality, better availability of seating and more variety at restaurants). This would only guarantee fewer choices for those who do find DDP a value for their trip.

Yes, I will admit to a tone inflected in this post and every other post I have ever made........it is part of having compassion, willingness to understand others and a drive for clear and concise expression of thought and feeling. For this, I do not offer an apology. If I misunderstand someone I will always ask for clarification and offer an apology if my understanding is flawed. Humility and a contrite spirit can go a long way in life.

 

[jarestel]

There have been dining plans for years at WDW, though none probably as heavily subsidized as the current one. Disney will grow weary of selling food at little to no profit (or maybe even at a loss) eventually and will increase the cost and modify the plan, thereby making it less attractive to some who purchase it now. (We're already hearing of a potential revolt simply due to rumors of removing the pre-paid tip from the plan)

So in all likelihood this current hot-button issue will resolve itself soon enough when Disney moves on to another plan for filling rooms, restaurants, and parks.

 

[apostolic4life]

There have been dining plans for years at WDW, though none probably as heavily subsidized as the current one. Disney will grow weary of selling food at little to no profit (or maybe even at a loss) eventually and will increase the cost and modify the plan, thereby making it less attractive to some who purchase it now. (We're already hearing of a potential revolt simply due to rumors of removing the pre-paid tip from the plan)

So in all likelihood this current hot-button issue will resolve itself soon enough when Disney moves on to another plan for filling rooms, restaurants, and parks.

So rolls the tide of capitalism!!! Good point jarestel.

 

[apostolic4life]

I guarantee everyone would be complaining about dirty rooms or unacceptable conditions in a hotel based on their personal needs and preferences. So why is it not acceptable to make those same complaints about restaurant quality? They're both opinions about changes.

Everyone should voice concerns about issues they have with problems they encounter. I think the OP in this thread was just wanting to make a point (which I agree with and please OP, correct me if I have overstated your intent) about how everyone who has never seen the value associated with the DDP blame all the ills of Disney restaurants on the plan. I do think the problems and the plan are just small facets of the bigger picture......a coprorate wide policy at Disney to maximize profits and milk every last drop of disposable income out of us. Of course I am perfectly willing to be milked!!!!!

 

[lustergirl]

Well when you compare the Value, Moderate, Deluxe and DVC Resorts each of them offer their guests different things that other Resorts don't have. For example Deluxe Resorts offer valet parking, room service where as those things are not offered at the Value and Moderate Resorts. So while everyone should be treated the same at WDW no matter where they stay, if you stay at a Value Resort don't complain that guests at the Deluxe Resorts are getting a lot more. They are paying more per night, plus they are paying for ammenties that Deluxe Resorts offer them.

oh but I hope that you are not referring to me as a complainer. I have stayed at all 3 levels of resorts, not only the values and never have complained because staying at a value means you get less care than at a deluxe. That wasn't my point at all. My point is that disney doesn't classify people- the guests staying at disney classify everyone according to their choice of resort that they stay- not everyone does this so I apoligize to those that are all right. The richest person may stay at a value or the poorest person may stay at a deluxe- I believe it is a person's choice and those who choose to stay at a value shouldn't be shamed into thinking that they are poor, the great unwased, or likewise. I would stay in a cardboard if that meant being able to stay at disney. Thank the lord I am one of those people who don't judge others because of where they stay. You can have jerks staying in any of the disney resorts not just the values.

 

[djblu883]

who the heck cares where another person stays? its doesn't matter...we are all just going to have a blast are we not? None of us need to keep up with the Jones' to have a great time!!!!!!!!!! Now they are taking the gratuity away from the DDP it will hurt the servers...but some of the servers didn't deserve 18% for the poor service they performed..i tip according to how well they do their job...bad service bad tip...good service good tip...great service great tip

 

[jodifla]

There have been dining plans for years at WDW, though none probably as heavily subsidized as the current one. Disney will grow weary of selling food at little to no profit (or maybe even at a loss) eventually and will increase the cost and modify the plan, thereby making it less attractive to some who purchase it now. (We're already hearing of a potential revolt simply due to rumors of removing the pre-paid tip from the plan)

So in all likelihood this current hot-button issue will resolve itself soon enough when Disney moves on to another plan for filling rooms, restaurants, and parks.

This is SO true, and gives me hope for the future....

Pyramid schemes never last.

 

[xWishes]

ummm... So about food...it enters one end, comes out the other. It keeps me alive. That's all I care about.

I guess I'm just saying I can't figure out how this topic got so...complex? lol

 

[tarheelmjfan]

In defense of jodifla, I thought the same thing when reading this thread. I understand DDP can be a cost savings to those who normally have to pay rack rate (or close) for their hotel anyway. An all inclusive vacation that you can pay payments on is definitely an attractive option. I too believe everyone deserves the opportunity to go to WDW at least once.

I do think it's a bit ridiculous to repremand others for complaining about DDP, because it helps you to be able to eat at places you couldn't normally afford, yet you are staying at the Grand Floridian. If getting free dining, or purchasing DDP, helps you to be able to afford to stay at the GF, more power to you. That's great! I wish everyone could stay there. Just don't come on here singing the blues about how you couldn't eat at the places you want without the dining plan, & telling others not to complain about it. GF isn't a budget hotel by any stretch of the imagination. If one can afford to stay there, they could also afford a reasonably priced TS meal each day.

 

[Lewisc]

I don't agree with people who call the DDP "heavily subsidized" or a pyramid scheme. Guests on the dining plan are pre-paying for the meals. Those guests are basically committing to eating almost all their meals at Disney restaurants. Customers that pre-pay, and buy in quantity, get large discounts from almost any business.

Look at the numbers. A TS meal is valued at around $26. A guest using a TS credit at character dinner is probably not even getting the 20% discount given to DDE card holders. A guest paying two credits to eat in CRT or one of the dinner shows probably isn't getting a 20% discount either.

The big savings come from guests that eat in the more expensive one credit restaurants and order the most expensive items on the menu. I'm not sure of the total percentage of DDP meals that are consumed that way. The DDP credit basically pays for the entree. I don't think Disney is losing $ by giving away free appetizers, drinks and desserts. Disney isn't losing the menu price of those items but rather the, much lower, ingrediant cost.

My guess is the servers are being squeezed by Disney. They may wind up getting a gratuity, but based on a flat dollar amount.

There have been dining plans for years at WDW, though none probably as heavily subsidized as the current one. Disney will grow weary of selling food at little to no profit (or maybe even at a loss) eventually and will increase the cost and modify the plan, thereby making it less attractive to some who purchase it now. (We're already hearing of a potential revolt simply due to rumors of removing the pre-paid tip from the plan)

So in all likelihood this current hot-button issue will resolve itself soon enough when Disney moves on to another plan for filling rooms, restaurants, and parks.

 

[Sammie]

ummm... So about food...it enters one end, comes out the other. It keeps me alive. That's all I care about.

I guess I'm just saying I can't figure out how this topic got so...complex? lol

Finally someone I can relate too.