New DDP- Servers not happy!

[patsal]

My parents are lousy tippers--I'm the one sneaking back to the table to drop some more $$ on the table if I go out with them--I don't like to go out with them and avoid it as much as I can. The funny thing my Mom, she really thinks she is being a good tipper--goes out of her way to flag down the server and give him/her the few wrinkled up one dollar bills she has. DH and I have discussed this at length--maybe it is because they are from a different generation, I don't know but I do make up for it when I am with them. Honestly this was why the DDP was so good for us when we travelled with my parents--no worries that they would undertip. So now my Mom says maybe we'll go in December 2008 an we'll get that DDP again--to which I say your tips will be extra at TS and no appetizer--her answer well we like the appetizers and not so much the desserts, so we'll have to pay OOP for those and I guess I can plan for the extra $2.00 per person tip!

 

[stitchsgrandpa]

With all of the talk about proper tipping and since servers are working under a Union contract, does anyone know what hourly wages do they earn? I know my local town they make less than $3 per hour and the rest is tips. We do tip 18% or higher but we have run into some places that pay the servers a very good wage.

 

[bicker]

Neither of us were present during negotiations but the servers who posted said Disney presented the elimination of the included tip as a non-negotiable demand.

None of the servers who posted even claimed to be part of the negotiating team, so none of them know any more than either of us know. We all know how the union leadership and the Disney management each decided to spin it. Therefore, all we can say is that the two sides negotiated and this is the result. I see saying anything more than that just distorting the truth to fit our own personal animosity towards one side or the other. The people who are trying to make Disney look bad will say Disney did it. The people who are trying to make the union look bad will say the union did it. Both assertions are BS (blowing smoke).

 

[Lewisc]

The servers who posted all said they were told by their union reps Disney insisted on removing the included gratuity. At least one server said this information was posted via a fact sheet.

My comments were directed to posters who blamed "greedy servers" for the deletion of the included tips. I haven't seen any credible information to suggest the servers asked to have the included tip deleted. I recall one server saying they thought the automatic gratuity on parties of 6 or more and on DDE checks would offset reduced DDP tips. Disney was smart, have the DDP guests pay the tip and have larger parties and DDE guests cover the projected shortfall.

I think we can agree Disney decided to increase the price of the 2008 DDP. Obviously the impact of the missing appetizer and tip is greater then the $1 price reduction. I have an issue with the (few) posters who somehow think the servers and the union had anything to do with Disney's decision to increase the cost of the plan via deletion of the included tip.

The people who want to "make Disney look bad" are really just complaining about a price increase.

I think it's a distortion of the known facts to suggest the servers requested the change. The few posters who claim to have "inside" information say Disney made the change in response to guest requests to be able to adjust the tip (up or down) based on the level of service provided. I don't buy that but that might have been one reason.


I think it's BS to think the union has anything to do with the price increase.

edit to add...

It goes without saying you're not one of those people. You've been consistent in saying the DDP was under priced and Disney was correct in increasing the price. Removing the included tip, without the corresponding price reduction, is a price increase. I don't think it's fair to blame the union for Disney's decision to increase the cost of the plan.

None of the servers who posted even claimed to be part of the negotiating team, so none of them know any more than either of us know. We all know how the union leadership and the Disney management each decided to spin it. Therefore, all we can say is that the two sides negotiated and this is the result. I see saying anything more than that just distorting the truth to fit our own personal animosity towards one side or the other. The people who are trying to make Disney look bad will say Disney did it. The people who are trying to make the union look bad will say the union did it. Both assertions are BS (blowing smoke).

 

[KYCruiseCrazy]

We talked to a few servers about the new DDP this week and every one of them expressed concern over the new plan. One said "I'm scared about what is going to happen." Most were most concerned over having to point out that gratuity wasn't included and feeling akward about this process as well as expecting to get even lower tips than they earned previously because folks either wont' realize it isn't included or will choose to tip poorly.

i might get flamed but what the heck, a tip is based on the service given by a CM. if the service sticks them why give 18% tip. currently there is no need for great service since the tip is automatic. now all of the severs have to earn the tip. most people will tip. if the level of service from the CM is good or better then expect a tip. also some people think a tip should never be paid ever.
goto outback steakhouse or texas roadhouse. some servers get tips and some don't. its a part of working in that industry. to get a tip is not automatic. it is to be earned.
(putting on my nomex suit)

 

[bicker]

The servers who posted all said they were told by their union reps Disney insisted on removing the included gratuity.

All we know for sure is that the two sides came to an agreement. The National Labor Relations Act ensures that the result of collective bargaining is a meeting of the minds between the two sides. Neither side can impose anything on the other.

My comments were directed to posters who blamed "greedy servers" for the deletion of the included tips.

And my comments were directed to posters who blamed the "greedy company". Both set of posters are wrong. There is no blame. Both sides made the best decisions based on their respective interests. I think people just need to get over the need to blame someone for what is just natural.

 

[mom2my3kids]

i might get flamed but what the heck, a tip is based on the service given by a CM. if the service sticks them why give 18% tip. currently there is no need for great service since the tip is automatic. now all of the severs have to earn the tip. most people will tip. if the level of service from the CM is good or better then expect a tip. also some people think a tip should never be paid ever.
goto outback steakhouse or texas roadhouse. some servers get tips and some don't. its a part of working in that industry. to get a tip is not automatic. it is to be earned.
(putting on my nomex suit)

You are absolutely right, if you get good service you should tip 15-20 percent of the bill. You would be surprised how many people who receive excellent service and don't tip appropriately..

 

[Shasta]

There is no blame. Both sides made the best decisions based on their respective interests. I think people just need to get over the need to blame someone for what is just natural.

I agree with Bicker on this subject. What he describes dosen't just apply to Disney. Inside the meeting room it may not have been cordal or an equal decision but if both parties leave the room having made a decision on a contract, from that point, they have to go forward 100%with that agreement. To go back and say they were forced is not fair.

If you decide to sell a mower to a friend and hagle over the price but in the end agree and shake hands. Should either party comlpain later because they paid too much or recieved too little? No!

 

[bluslag]

We will be going to WDW this winter in 2008. Last year we used the DDP for the first time and really enjoyed it. It made all the difference in the world with never having to carry money and not all that discussion about who got what and what tip you would be leaving. We also probably ordered more than we would have without the plan but it was there so why not. We did not let it go to waste and we had kids that always finish everything if we didn't. All six of us were on the plan and we were all adults. This year I don't think we will use the plan. We will still eat out wherever we want and will have many Adrs because that is part of what we enjoy on vacation. One of the reasons we won't do it is because of the tipping automatically added onto a party of 6. I don't really considered a party of 6 a large party. We will tip accordingly to our service and we will feel much more in control of the situation. We usually tip very well but won't tip as much if we get someone that isn't very good. I have been a waitress so I know what is to be expected from a good waiter. We probably won't order so much this year, especially dessert because we usually like to get something later after we walk off some of our dinner. An appy is more important to us because it is something different than we usually have at home. I do think the servers are the ones that will suffer because we all spend a lot of money on our vacation at WDW. People are used to not leaving a tip and that will stick in there minds that WDW just costs that much more now.

 

[bicker]

If you decide to sell a mower to a friend and hagle over the price but in the end agree and shake hands. Should either party comlpain later because they paid too much or recieved too little? No!

Perfect analogy.

 

[bicker]

We probably won't order so much this year, especially dessert because we usually like to get something later after we walk off some of our dinner.

And that's probably the main reason why Disney decided to include the dessert and remove the appetizer.

An appy is more important to us because it is something different than we usually have at home.

And therefore diners in general are more likely to pay OOP for an appetizer rather than a dessert.

 

[emma'smom]

And that's probably the main reason why Disney decided to include the dessert and remove the appetizer.

And therefore diners in general are more likely to pay OOP for an appetizer rather than a dessert.

Right...on both points. This is what bothers me....that Disney is aware of what the customer would really prefer (appetizers in this scenario) and then does the opposite purely for money-making purposes. The actually appetizer/dessert cost isn't the issue, it is taking advantange of the sociological eating patterns of the average customer to make more money knowing full-well that many diners won't then eat their dessert (or will force themselves to eat it because it is in the plan) when they would have been satisfied with the appetizer/entree combo. I'm all for pushing my stock value up...but customer satisfaction should be considered too!

 

[Alicnwondrln]

I didnt read the whole thread but I feel bad for the servers. We always got the plan and left extra $ for great service. I think people like us on the DIS know the rules and how it works. I think the people or families that go and for the first time or dont research wont know and who knows how disney will end up communicating that.
I think disney needs to be the one telling people, IT SHOUDL NOT BE UP HE SERVERS. I cant imagine having to remind people tips are no longer included.

 

[mom2my3kids]

My parents are lousy tippers--I'm the one sneaking back to the table to drop some more $$ on the table if I go out with them--I don't like to go out with them and avoid it as much as I can. The funny thing my Mom, she really thinks she is being a good tipper--goes out of her way to flag down the server and give him/her the few wrinkled up one dollar bills she has. DH and I have discussed this at length--maybe it is because they are from a different generation, I don't know but I do make up for it when I am with them. Honestly this was why the DDP was so good for us when we travelled with my parents--no worries that they would undertip. So now my Mom says maybe we'll go in December 2008 an we'll get that DDP again--to which I say your tips will be extra at TS and no appetizer--her answer well we like the appetizers and not so much the desserts, so we'll have to pay OOP for those and I guess I can plan for the extra $2.00 per person tip!

You know I think I would have to say something to my parents. But I agree I really believe the older generations are not updated about tipping percentages..

 

[ilovefh]

You know I think I would have to say something to my parents. But I agree I really believe the older generations are not updated about tipping percentages..

I love my dad to death, but he is a horrible tipper too! Straight 10% or less. Last year at Rainforest we had six of us and the service was great! I think he left 10.5% at most. We had to pretend to be going to the bathroom to give the server extra money because he gets offended when we leave extra. Which I understand!

 

[dburg30]

One of my wife's best friends (37 year old) is a horrible tipper, and I dont know if there's been a night my wife came home after going out to eat with her, that she didnt mention her friend complaining about SOMETHING with the dinner. And the service wasnt bad or the food wasnt bad at ALL. She just has to find something to complain about therefore she thinks her tip is fine. Heck even if she's in a good mood, I dont think she leaves more then 10%.

 

[Lewisc]

I'm not making my point very well. The union and Disney came to an agreement. I'm sure the issue will be addressed, no later then next contract, if the servers take a bigger then expected hit with the 2008 DDP.

My point is the decision to increase the cost of the dining plan, the value of the cutbacks far exceed the $1 price reduction, was solely made by Disney. The servers had nothing to do with that decision. The evidence is Disney, not the servers, was the party that wanted to drop the included tip. Again the servers got offsets that they think/hope/expect will compensate (negotiations) but it's not the servers fault the included tip was dropped or that Disney increased the price of the plan.

I'm not sure I'd "blame" a company for increasing a price. I don't think Disney is being any more "greedy" then the guests who refused to use a "child credit" for an kids meal or guests who order entree sized appetizers to stretch the plan.

Again my comments were in the context of saying the "blame" (responsibility) for the price increase is 100% Disney and 0% the servers union.

I would have preferred Disney went to a one credit per guest dining requirement and offered appropriate (smaller) sized appetizers. Restaurants that offer a fixed price, multiple course dinner, frequently feature smaller portion sizes.

I don't think the plan was under-priced so much as more guests then anticipated worked hard at "maxing out" the plan. I'm not sure what Disney was thinking when they decided a box of donuts, large bag of chips or a quart of milk is a single serving snack.

All we know for sure is that the two sides came to an agreement. The National Labor Relations Act ensures that the result of collective bargaining is a meeting of the minds between the two sides. Neither side can impose anything on the other.

And my comments were directed to posters who blamed the "greedy company". Both set of posters are wrong. There is no blame. Both sides made the best decisions based on their respective interests. I think people just need to get over the need to blame someone for what is just natural.

 

[patsal]

You know I think I would have to say something to my parents. But I agree I really believe the older generations are not updated about tipping percentages..

I have and her argument is compelling In any event I'm one who doesn't make waves with my parents-her thinking $2.00 plus the $3.25 base in our area times the number of tables in an hour is about $12.00 per hour and she considers that a fair wage based on her limited time in the work force way back when. It is far easier for me to drop the difference than start a family arguement.

 

[BAST]

I do not have a big problem with removing the tip from the DDP. When we used the DDP in 2006, we had three (of eight) TS meals where the service was bad or very bad. I believe that had to do with the fact that we were on the DDP and the tip amount was automatic (includin the 18% add on for alcohol). When we go to WDW in 2008 (renting points from DVC), I am hopeful that the discretionary tip will improve service. If not, I will not leave much of a tip.

I also do not like the significant increase in the cost of the plan due to the removal of the appetizer and tip. I do not begrudge WDW making money, but I would never pay rack rate at any resort to get to use this 2008 plan. If I can't rent points for 2008, I will likely stay offsite (for the first time ever).

 

[mhouse]

I have and her argument is compelling In any event I'm one who doesn't make waves with my parents-her thinking $2.00 plus the $3.25 base in our area times the number of tables in an hour is about $12.00 per hour and she considers that a fair wage based on her limited time in the work force way back when. It is far easier for me to drop the difference than start a family arguement.

I have to say something here.

Up until last year I was a waiter I would have four tables in my zone and those tables would clear out every hour or so. The average bill would be between $50.00 to $100.00 per table per hour at 15% tip I was making about $45.00 per hour in tips. Now I did have to share about 30% of my tips with other wait staff but I still took home at least $30.00 per hour for my efforts.

Now that I have finished college and have found a job I only make $20.00 an hour.

I know that waitering is hard work but you do make GREAT money. I DO NOT feel sorry for the wait staff. I promise you if they work hard and give good service they will make more money that the majority of the people on this forum!!!

Even tipping 10% which I will do for bad service they will make out just fine.