kides say Magic Bands have ruined Disney

[Brian Noble]

It's Sayre's Law in full effect.

In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake.

 

[momof2n2]

Agreed! One problem is there are distinct winners and losers in this debate. As you said, we have no choice over the FP system implemented by Disney. If you love WDW and you love FP+ you automatically win. If you love WDW but you hate FP+ then unfortunately you lose. The system is already in place. I guess the debates heat up when we become sore losers and bad winners, lol.

I think the debate heats up when people won't acknowledge that FP+ sucks for some of us. When the "you can't know you don't like it because you haven't tried it," & the "you'd better learn to like it because it isn't leaving" comments start it frustrates those of us who still visit the board hoping for some illuminating info. from former superusers who have learned to love the new WDW.

I don't start "I hate FP+" threads (anymore?) - but of course I will chime in and commiserate with OPs who feel let down.

And I do visit lots of other places and (thankfully) enjoy them a great deal.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

I don't think there are any winners or losers in a debate such as this. Just people with different touring styles who find the system works for them or not. Or, if you will, the loser is Disney in the form of families who find the current system doesn't work for them.

 

[JimmyV]

I think the debate heats up when people won't acknowledge that FP+ sucks for some of us.

But to be fair, the level of heat escalates equally when people won't acknowledge that FP+ is working great for some people. And I think some of this might be jealousy. I sense that many of the frustrated people are the ones who used to glean an advantage over "novices" by heading to the park with well thought-out spreadsheets, plans of attack and strategies derived from years of experience, all of which enabled them to get the better of the neophytes who didn't know how to use FP-, didn't know they could use FP-, or simply did not maximize the use of FP-. Now, with so many more people using FP+, and with many of those people being relative novices, the touring advantage of the cognoscenti has eroded and is in danger of evaporating altogether. People who used to be at the very top of the touring pyramid are now stuck in the middle alongside everyone else. It hurts to be taken down several pegs. And on the way down, many of these folks fail to (or refuse to) recognize that many people toward the bottom of the pyramid have been raised up. So while it is true that there is a lack of recognition that FP+ sucks for some people, there is also a failure to recognize that FP+ has been great for others.

 

[Hokie2000]

And the issue magnifies when economics are brought to bear. Some of the "soreness" from the losers stems from the fact that they are now paying more to do less.

With WDW prices it's no wonder people feel mighty sore!

 

[KY4Disney]

I completely agree. A little time away from the parks may be a good way to kill the boredom and a nice chance to explore other options in the area.

 

[JimmyV]

I don't think there are any winners or losers in a debate such as this. Just people with different touring styles who find the system works for them or not.

Depends on how one defines "winner" and "loser". A "loser" can be someone who is no longer in possession of something that they used to possess, and a "winner" can be someone who now possesses something that they could not get before. I would submit that the commando who used to knock off 27 rides in a day who is now cut down to 22 is a "loser" in all of this, and the family that hates RD, loves character breakfasts, and who could never get to DHS in time to beat the 75 minute SB line at TSMM or get a FP- for it before they ran out at 10:30 is a "winner". The "loser" is enraged that the "winner" can lollygag all morning and still get a no-wait ride on TSMM with their FP+ because that is a FP that used to go to the vigilant early riser. It has, in essence, been stripped away from the "loser". The "winner" on the other hand is now in possession of something that they could never obtain before--the coveted FP that used to run out before their arrival. And the "winner" does not understand all of this angst because s/he does not believe that setting the alarm clock for 5:30 a.m. should be required to get a no-wait ride on a headliner. It's vacation after all, and there should be no penalty for enjoying other Disney activities before heading to the park.

 

[Luckybee]

I've said it before...it isn't just super users who fp+ doesn't work for. It didn't work well for us and we never ride repeat. In the past we were happy with relatively short park days. As an example we'd go to MK, score a fp for a major and then leisurely get in a whole lot of rides within a few hours. We were happy finding rides with non existent lines(we tended to go during slower periods). We didn't have to ride all the biggies. We never felt scheduled or rushed. We would leave the park happy and content. We would then have time to enjoy pools etc. ...or we enjoyed the pools etc before going to the park. Sure having 3 ressies "guarantees us 3 rides" but before fp+ we were guaranteed alot more without long lines other than the "majors".To accomplish the same thing now would have required much more time and removes our ability to r and r which for us is a necessary part of a holiday. It simply wasn't as much fun for us and our touring style and we were, once again, at D during a slower period.
This is why we've decided to spend more time at U and less at D on our May trip something which we never thought we'd do (and we'd be completely avoiding Disney if we didn't have newbie friends going at the same time as us).

 

[SmithSmith]

Herein lies the problem. To many Dis'ers, experiencing a dozen attractions in a day is a very slow day. In fact, it is what many expect to do by lunch. If one is accustomed to and satisfied with a dozen rides in a day, then FP+ will not negatively impact the overall experience. But if you look beyond that you will see that FP+ does act as a governor because it was always designed to do so. Remember that the system was deployed not to help the guest but to help the financial bottom line. Disney did not spend what it did to create this system without expecting to recapture those costs. So let's dig a little deeper.

First, there is the psychological impact. As some posters on this thread have noted: "FP+ is great! We don't have to do RD anymore!" OK. Ask yourself. Is a person who skips RD and arrives later in the day going to be able to ride as many rides as they did before? Skipping RD can have a tremendous positive impact on that family's vacation. More sleep. Less fatigue. Maybe a nice character breakfast at 'Ohana that they wouldn't otherwise do in their rush to make RD. ( There's your economic impact for Disney). So skipping RD can be a win-win. But it cannot be intelligently argued that the family that skips RD can or will ride as many rides as before. Not when sooooooo many people have come here and reported that they had great FP+ experiences by coupling their use with RD. It is universally accepted that RD is still the best crowd avoidance strategy. So FP+ is causing a certain percentage of people to skip RD. And those people are entering the park when the crowds have built up, so they are not maximizing their ride opportunities.

Second is the crowd redistribution impact of FP+. The system was designed to move people into standby lines for non-headliner attractions. A person who used to ride Space Mountain at RD and then three more times with FP- and who walked on to Pirates and Haunted Mansion is now riding Space Mountain once at RD, once more with FP+ and waiting 30-40 minutes each for Pirates and HM. Not an issue if the goal is a dozen rides in a day. But it is a speed bump if they are shooting for 27. FP+ was designed to retard the ability to ride headliners repeatedly. Guests are supposed to ride the rides once and then leave the park making room for other guests to arrive and do the same. Sort of like a factory that operates in shifts. Disney intends to recoup costs in part by selling more admission tickets. They don't intend all of those people to occupy the same space at the same time. Instead, they want the early shift to leave and go spend money elsewhere and they want the late shift to spend money elsewhere and then go to a park with locked in ride reservations. And no doubt this will happen. But we have to always keep in mind that the only time when guests don't spend money is when they are in lines for rides or are riding rides. If we think that Disney implemented this system to put people on more rides with their wallets shut, we are kidding ourselves. Again, if the old way was a dozen rides a day, then this is no big deal. But what you are seeing here are the commandos with torches and pitchforks. Their days are numbered.

As one of the posters that has claimed this, I should admit that on our next trip we will also have extra anytime, anywhere FP's to use so that may be influencing my decision to skip rope drop. As well as, the fact we're going during Christmas and I want to focus more on Christmassy stuff than the rides.

 

[johde]

My trip is still coming up. I'm leaving tomorrow. I know I'm only booking for 1. But I had no trouble for quite a few days making FP+ reservations for TSMM, 7DMT etc. I wasn't able to get the exact times I wanted but I was able to get within 10 min. of them. For Example, I wanted 9:30, 10:30, and 11:30 and I got 9:40, 10:40 and 11:40 (9:30 TSMM was gone). I think I changed the time of 7DMT 3 or 4 times during the first 30 days of the Window for January 4th.

This is my first time using FP+ but at least for not. So far so good.

 

[Laketravis]

We have gone to Disney twice a year for the past 6 years. The kids, as well as the adults, always look forward to going. this time was no different, they talked about it for weeks, prior to our departure. It was a birthday trip and they were prepared for the large crowds. This week at DWD, the crowds have been large, but expected and manageable. The kids have said Disney has ruined the experience and they do not want to come back. When pressed for a reason, they are very precise...Magic Bands. When we booked the fast passes, the family received 2 fast passes in the morning, and the 3rd in the mid to late afternoon. The kids say they feel trapped in that one park. Everyone is tired of having to kill time for the last fast pass. We have gone in every gift shop (not bought anything), gone to every show, gone on every possible ride to kill time. Then by the time the 3rd fast pass is used, there are no fast passes left for any ride in the park. The kids were to the point of bringing friends with them, but now they do not want to return at all. As they said, they do not want to subject anyone else to wasting time in a particular park. They are old enough to reason it out, it makes not sense to even attempt to park hop. If Disney is a business, they need to find a way to keep people coming back again and again. At the present time, they are in danger of losing my kids and their potential families from every coming to Disney. If other families are finding the same to be true, Disney better figure out something quickly. Now what do I do with the DVC purchase???? Dave's????

I have to reluctantly agree. We've been at Universal since Tuesday and not to make this a WDW versus Universal post but DS9 has made several observations:

1. He's been able to accomplish much more each day than he was last month at WDW. Even yesterday on New Years Eve the parks didn't feel crowded and we didn't wait more than 20 minutes for anything.

2. Express Pass works much better than FP, hands down. Disney loses out big time to this system.

3. He thinks the parks have richer detail and more to do. He's been comparing things like Spider-Man to Test Track and Forbidden Journey to New Fantasy Land, and he just laughs about how they are so much better.

4. He thinks MK has a good amount to do but can't compare in terms of details.

So to your point - Disney has lost this kid. And when they lose the kid, they lose the family. I just wish we'd known that before we bought WDW AP's last month.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think history has shown us that socialism, while perhaps idyllic in theory, does not work in the long run. I personally have no desire for socialist vacations...meaning, I don't care if other people get to do XYZ. I care if my family does (and I would assume most feel the same...why should they care about me?). Vacations are an inherently selfish endeavor. And I don't say "selfish" negatively.

I agree to a certain extent--yes vacations are selfish and that is a positive--it is supposed to be all about me/us.

I don't think FP is socialist on concept though any more then legacy was. By its design, no one has equal outcome which is what in think socialism tries to achieve. Capacity alone makes that not possible.

But perhaps I don't fully understand the defintion and how it correlates to this system.

 

[mom2rtk]

Only time will tell really. I'm sure 10 years from now they'll come up with a whole new way to "improve" things that may or may not need to be improved, and tick off their fan base while placating others...as long as they can keep turning a profit. That we can bank on.

That's the problem for me though. My daughter is 14 and will start high school in the fall. These past couple years were our last chance to take her out of school for a week and do Disney in the off season. Once high school starts, all bets are off as grades are for keeps and extra curricular stuff just makes it too hard to take them out of school. So it makes me sad that they have putzed around rolling out FP+ in our final couple of years we could go enjoy the parks the way we wanted. We're adapting and doing the best we can, and I can go with her in 10 years. But it won't be the same.

 

[PrincessSamanthaC]

I get what you are saying and yet... Nobody is holding a gun to your head to use the last FP. If you are waiting for hours, go standby or just go.

Exactly.

 

[momof2n2]

But to be fair, the level of heat escalates equally when people won't acknowledge that FP+ is working great for some people. And I think some of this might be jealousy. I sense that many of the frustrated people are the ones who used to glean an advantage over "novices" by heading to the park with well thought-out spreadsheets, plans of attack and strategies derived from years of experience, all of which enabled them to get the better of the neophytes who didn't know how to use FP-, didn't know they could use FP-, or simply did not maximize the use of FP-. Now, with so many more people using FP+, and with many of those people being relative novices, the touring advantage of the cognoscenti has eroded and is in danger of evaporating altogether. People who used to be at the very top of the touring pyramid are now stuck in the middle alongside everyone else. It hurts to be taken down several pegs. And on the way down, many of these folks fail to (or refuse to) recognize that many people toward the bottom of the pyramid have been raised up. So while it is true that there is a lack of recognition that FP+ sucks for some people, there is also a failure to recognize that FP+ has been great for others.

I don't think jealous is the right word, but I acknowledge the concept is the right one.

I think it stinks that what worked for me for over a decade was ripped away with FP+. I'd already booked the coinciding cruise and rental property when this was first rolling out on the DIS. Cancelled the WDW part and wonder when/if we'll ever go back. For sure I resent that.

And FWIW - I admit to enjoying the benefits of my research. But I never had access to anything that wasn't always available to anyone who looked for it.

The other post describing the winners and losers was spot on in my book.

As someone who wakes without an alarm at 5:30 even on vacation, I liked it the old way.

But we never had to run for FP-. We enjoyed the sights and sounds, but had a lot to show for our efforts, too.

 

[Me!Thatswho]

That's the problem for me though. My daughter is 14 and will start high school in the fall. These past couple years were our last chance to take her out of school for a week and do Disney in the off season. Once high school starts, all bets are off as grades are for keeps and extra curricular stuff just makes it too hard to take them out of school. So it makes me sad that they have putzed around rolling out FP+ in our final couple of years we could go enjoy the parks the way we wanted. We're adapting and doing the best we can, and I can go with her in 10 years. But it won't be the same.

We are in a similar situation, but with our son. Heck, we took him out for just 2 days this past November and he had to make up 2 projects and 2 tests. Missing school is definitely no longerban option. On top of the stress of thinking about what he missed, he also hated the limitations of FP+. Like OP's children, he stated point blank to both my wife and I multiple times since that he doesn't want to go back. He loves all-things Disney and would go to DL (no FP+) in a heartbeat. So, will we go back to WDW? Sure, but it probably will not be until he's in college because of the shortened calendar that overlaps slower times.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

I haven't read the entire thread. But just reading the initial post it struck me that something is way wrong: If all your kids don't like Disney simply because they didn't like the timing of a 3rd FP+, then you are doing something wrong. Really big wrong. Don't know what it is, but I know most kids love all kinds of things at Disney with or without FP+. There is so much to the Disney experience that is amazing.

Your kids may have TMDS. (Too Much Disney Syndrome) it makes people jaded about Disney World. Many here have the disease. It's one clear symptom is being unhappy with the Happiest Place on Earth.

The cure: Don't go. Visit Yellowstone, New England, The Grand Canyon, Glacier National Park, New York City, The Everglades, the Caribbean, or any one of a thousand othr amazing places kids need to see.

 

[Schmeck]

I have to reluctantly agree. We've been at Universal since Tuesday and not to make this a WDW versus Universal post but DS9 has made several observations:

1. He's been able to accomplish much more each day than he was last month at WDW. Even yesterday on New Years Eve the parks didn't feel crowded and we didn't wait more than 20 minutes for anything.

2. Express Pass works much better than FP, hands down. Disney loses out big time to this system.

3. He thinks the parks have richer detail and more to do. He's been comparing things like Spider-Man to Test Track and Forbidden Journey to New Fantasy Land, and he just laughs about how they are so much better.

4. He thinks MK has a good amount to do but can't compare in terms of details.

So to your point - Disney has lost this kid. And when they lose the kid, they lose the family. I just wish we'd known that before we bought WDW AP's last month.

1. What are the crowd levels for the two parks being compared?

2. Can't compare Express pass to FP+ because one has strings attached - for express pass you either have to stay onsite or pay extra.

3. Nine year old boy.

4. I see the opposite - Islands of Adventure had two areas with details, the rest was too screaming rollercoaster/6 Flags (the superhero area?) and lacked detail.

I believe Universal and WDW cater to two completely different types of families. Your family just happened to move from a WDW to a Universal one.

Did you buy the extra-cost Express pass, and the extra-cost ticket to access Hogwarts Express?

 

[Jennasis]

1. What are the crowd levels for the two parks being compared?

2. Can't compare Express pass to FP+ because one has strings attached - for express pass you either have to stay onsite or pay extra.

3. Nine year old boy.

4. I see the opposite - Islands of Adventure had two areas with details, the rest was too screaming rollercoaster/6 Flags (the superhero area?) and lacked detail.

I believe Universal and WDW cater to two completely different types of families. Your family just happened to move from a WDW to a Universal one.

Did you buy the extra-cost Express pass, and the extra-cost ticket to access Hogwarts Express?

FP+ has strings too..stay onsite or suffer with the leftovers at 30 days out.

 

[Shaden]

I haven't read the entire thread. But just reading the initial post it struck me that something is way wrong: If all your kids don't like Disney simply because they didn't like the timing of a 3rd FP+, then you are doing something wrong. Really big wrong. Don't know what it is, but I know most kids love all kinds of things at Disney with or without FP+. There is so much to the Disney experience that is amazing.

Your kids may have TMDS. (Too Much Disney Syndrome) it makes people jaded about Disney World. Many here have the disease. It's one clear symptom is being unhappy with the Happiest Place on Earth.

The cure: Don't go. Visit Yellowstone, New England, The Grand Canyon, Glacier National Park, New York City, The Everglades, the Caribbean, or any one of a thousand othr amazing places kids need to see.

If Disney is doing something that their even a significant portion of their most loyal return guests no longer enjoy returning, or are told they shouldn't go as often because Disney somehow becomes off-putting or they enjoy their vacations less ...

DISNEY is doing something wrong, not the people who go there.

Especially not the people who used to go quite frequently, but due to a major change in WDW systems are no longer enjoying their stay as much.