Is anyone as frustrated as me, due to no 2008DDP info yet?????

[Lewisc]

I agree, I reluctantly think the Virgin plan is what we'll be getting.

The Magic 8 Ball says, "Not likely." Disney will likely make their decision based on their vast array of hard-data, collected over the last three years.

 

[JimMIA]

Leanne

Don't go getting upset. Sometimes no amount of evidence is ever enough honey. I have stayed away from this thread for a while as it was making me so frustrated, but hey, what the heck.... I am chuckling now .... and shake my head and move on ....

Val
xx

This was given to Virgin directly from resort. I will watch this thread with interest but i won't bother posting anymore as i think i am just wasting my time.

Ah...at last! Two pearls of wisdom in a sea of foam and noise! At last, someone got it right!

 

[tfc3rid]

Keep in mind also there are a fair number of folks who have decreid the DDP as lowering the quality for the food selections/quality at Disney Restaurants...

Maybe Disney is trying to bring some of that business back...

 

[dizfanz]

 

[Cruiser1969]

UNsubscribing

 

[faberj]

me too!

 

[mkycrzy1971]

My guess is they will put out the initial plan and fine-tune it over the first few months...isn't that what they do most every year??? Am I not correct by saying that last year they took a lot of TS rest. off of the list and added most back on within the first few months? I am sure that it will be different than it has in the past and we will all have to adjust to it, but, again, they will fine-tune it to make it at least "tolerable".

 

[bicker]

I think they fine-tune all the time, not just right after they release something.

 

[Sammie]

based on conversations this weekend while I was at Disney visiting friends, I would say it is a very good bet the tips are gone.

In addition to the contract situation, I was told it was the number one complaint by guests about the plan. That they did not feel they got as good as service as nonDDP guests due to the tips. So again guest response has turned around and bitten them in the butt, you know what they say about be careful what you ask for.

 

[Nancyg56]

based on conversations this weekend while I was at Disney visiting friends, I would say it is a very good bet the tips are gone.

In addition to the contract situation, I was told it was the number one complaint by guests about the plan. That they did not feel they got as good as service as nonDDP guests due to the tips. So again guest response has turned around and bitten them in the butt, you know what they say about be careful what you ask for.

You see it time and again, not just with Disney. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

 

[Lewisc]

I'm sure that's what you were told but based on posts on DIS I doubt that was the number one complaint. Very few posters have experienced inferior service.

My guess is the number one complaint is the inability of guests without ADRs to get decent times at the restaurant of their choice. My guess is the number two complaint is regarding the kids menu. I'll even speculate the number 3 complaint might be parents of 10-12 year olds who don't think their kids eat enough to justify having to pay adult pricing.

My guess is Disney got tired of "rewarding" servers who helped guests finesse the adult/child credit loophole in 2005 and most of 2006 and encouraged guests to order appetizers and desserts even if they didn't really want them. Most of us base a tip on a price fixed dinner special on the cost of the dinner special, not on what the meal would have cost on the a la carte menu. Disney probably didn't want to continue paying 18% on a menu price that exceeds the amount paid by the guest.

I suspect the "no more appetizer", if true, may be a response to the guests who complained about "too much food".

I suspect the restricted snack list, if true, may be a response to guests using snack credits for 1/2 gallon of milk and a box of donuts for breakfast.

I was told it was the number one complaint by guests about the plan. That they did not feel they got as good as service as nonDDP guests due to the tips. So again guest response has turned around and bitten them in the butt, you know what they say about be careful what you ask for.

 

[gina2000]

I have a different take on this. I think WDW made a major tactical error when calculating how much food an adult would order based on what people were ordering at a TS restaurant when paying OOP. When they failed to take into account were two things. First off, people very often order what they can afford, not what they would LIKE to order. And second, portions were big enough that it was easy to do if you had a couple or family with similar tastes who were paying OOP. Once they put the DDP into place, people were able to order whatever they liked. People ordered alot. Tons of food was wasted. WDW responded by reducing portion sizes and standardizing menus, both cost cutting measures. They didn't have to raise the cost of the DDP for awhile because of these efficiencies. And they were able to maximize profits generated by OOP TS and CS customers also. Not to mention the fact that the DDP also helped to fill those hotel rooms at rack rates. That seems to be a major plus for their bottom line.

I do think the "no more appetizer" rumor will come to pass. It's an easy way to save WDW money while still giving customers a nice TS meal. I don't think it's in response to those saying that the DDP is too much food but a quick fix to try to keep the price of the DDP affordable for those who want to use it. Adding up the components of the TS alone show how expensive TS dining is OOP at WDW and what value the TS customer was getting if they chose the DDP. That's a no brainer in my opinion.

As far as the tip is concerned, I do think WDW saw the servers taking advantage of a very lucrative loophole. Although I wouldn't say they are punishing their servers, I will say that they are putting the tip back within the consumer's control. It's an easy way to hike the price of the DDP by 18% and another 8% if the tax is also excluded. That's alot of moola even spread over a several year period. Hopefully, people won't stiff the waitstaff but I wouldn't count on it. If people already think they are paying alot for an amenity, they'll stiff the waitstaff. We shall see on that one also.

Order of complaints:

1. Kids' menus. They were really, really stinky when first introduced.
2. Difficulty in getting TS ressies. Everyone is complaining about it. That situation may be resolved if enough people decline to use the DDP.
3. Tween's pricing everywhere. But WDW doesn't care about that. They have standardized tween's ages with the price of admission. It makes it easier for them. And it's an easy way to pick up some extra moola on the DDP.

Service doesn't even make the top 10. Many people on the DDP don't normally eat at WDW TS restaurants (you read it time and time again) so they have nothing to compare it to. Yeah, people get lousy service occasionally. But I don't think you can make a case that DDP patrons get any significantly different service than OOP patrons. Lousy service is lousy service on any given night to most or all patrons.

 

[JimMIA]

Whatever changes occur, I doubt seriously if they have anything to do with complaints about service, or about complaints about too much food...or any other guest concerns or desires regarding DDP.

The changes are about money.

I don't think eliminating the appetizer will save much money, but it will speed up meals, which increases turnover, which in turn increases revenues and profits. It will make ADRs more available too, but Disney doesn't really care about that nearly as much as they care about increasing revenue.

Eliminating the gratuity is probably a direct cost reduction of $9-10 per day, per adult guest on DDP. That's money Disney is paying out now that they will not be paying out if they eliminate the gratuity. That is roughly a 25% direct cost reduction for Disney. Most companies would kill for an opportunity to reduce costs in some part of their operation 25%.

Disney will SAY whatever they think people might believe to justify any changes...but the real reason is money.

 

[JimMIA]

In addition to the contract situation...

I don't know if you meant it this way, but your phrasing of this makes it sound like the contract is something that poor 'ole Disney had jammed down their throat. Nothing could be further from the truth, according to information posted here and elsewhere by server CMs.

Initially, the story goes, Disney put the no tips language in the contract and said it was non-negotiable. The no-tips language was, in fact, not negotiated and it was in the first contract which was narrowly voted down. In response, Disney and the union agreed to minor changes to soften the blow of losing the tips and the contract barely passed.

But from start to finish, the idea of eliminating the gratuity was Disney's idea and probably an important goal of their negotiating strategy because of the huge monetary gains they get from it.

 

[Lewisc]

I don't think eliminating the appetizer will save much money, but it will speed up meals, which increases turnover, which in turn increases revenues and profits. It will make ADRs more available too, but Disney doesn't really care about that nearly as much as they care about increasing revenue.

agreed, Eliminating the appetizer will also make it harder for guests to "stretch" their meal credits by sharing meals. Fewer guests will be complaining about "too much food" and more guests will be ordering one entree per guest.

I agree eliminating the included tip is 100% about $$$.

 

[Sammie]

sometimes I begin to possibly feel sorry for President Bush, having everything he says put under a microscope and over analyzed, enjoy the discussion, having to explain one's comments is no longer fun for me.

anyway in a few weeks the rest of the world will know the what the 2008 plan offers.

 

[JimMIA]

sometimes I begin to possibly feel sorry for President Bush, having everything he says put under a microscope and over analyzed, enjoy the discussion, having to explain one's comments is no longer fun for me.

anyway in a few weeks the rest of the world will know the what the 2008 plan offers.

I'm sure noone here - certainly not me - is doubting what you said. You have always been both honest and accurate.

I think several of us got the impression that you were told the "party line," which is exactly what I would expect inside sources to tell you. "It's not our fault -- the customers want this!"

Nobody is questioning you, or the accuracy of your information -- just not buying the rationale the Disney folks say is bringing about any possible changes.

 

[Lewisc]

Not questioning the inevetiable changes. They were first publicized by UK tour operators, some CMs at the call center and finally your post.

Most of us think its all about money. We don't buy the BS you were given by whatever source you have.

sometimes I begin to possibly feel sorry for President Bush, having everything he says put under a microscope and over analyzed, enjoy the discussion, having to explain one's comments is no longer fun for me.

anyway in a few weeks the rest of the world will know the what the 2008 plan offers.

 

[fakereadhed]

I suspect the restricted snack list, if true, may be a response to guests using snack credits for 1/2 gallon of milk and a box of donuts for breakfast.

Why would they care what you used snack credits for if they had the same monetary value? Just curious.

 

[JimMIA]

Most of us think its all about money. We don't buy the BS you were given by whatever source you have.

Actually, Lewis, "most of us" is just you and I!

I don't think there has been a real groundswell of public opinion one way or the other...probably because most folks don't really care WHY changes occur. Why doesn't matter that much -- DDP is, and will be, what it is.

Also -- just for the record -- Sammie's sources are quite reliable. I wouldn't characterize their point of view as BS; I just don't think they're being completely candid with her (or maybe they don't know why changes might be made).

But I have no doubt that Sammie passed the word she received to us accurately.