Excuse Me, “Legacy Fans”? We Might Just Be Disney’s Only Way Forward.

[lugnut33]

Your post is a great answer for the complaints. While most hate all the changes and price increases, while some will choose to stop going, those that enjoy it seem to have the mindset of just happy to be here.

For my family the parks aren't worth the amount of work it takes to visit. Starting with the reservation system all the way to booking return times to ride things. It's not that it's hard, it's more work then I care for to have an amusement park vacation. We went to Cedar Point this summer for a week two seperate times. Much cheaper, no reservation required as we had season passes and their skip the line system was much simpler. Just show up to the attraction.

Not sure I'm quite in that category as it had been about 5 years since we last went and it'll probably longer than that until we return. When the kids were younger we'd go as many as 4 times a year. My daughters are 22 & 25 and they will return to Disney at some point, but the value will need to be there. Their #1 complaint was the face projecting on rides replacing animatronics. In their mind they know it's an easy way for Disney to skimp out on ride costs. Yeah, neither crosses the uncanny valley, but the valley is much wider on the face projecting.

 

[Jrb1979]

To an extent, these types of amusement parks have always been cheaper and less work than Disney though. They’re quite different, and not really substitutes for each other.

Theme wise they are different but the parks themselves can be just as much fun at a much cheaper cost.

 

[raidermatt]

What we don't see... is where those that have checked out or those that goes less often, have hurt Disney's bottom line. Currently COVID Travel has obscured what the new norm is and how it will affect WDW. I think Disney realized, even before COVID that attendance levels were really beyond the parks capacities to provide an enjoyable experience. That there needed to be more balancing out of guest visits along with weeding out some less profitable guest.

A lot of experimentation going on with Park Reservations, Genie+ and LL, AP Program and different discount programs...

That is the company line, sure. But if you buy it, well, ok. Enjoy.

Truth is smaller crowds, if that even materializes long term, would simply be a byproduct of what they are doing. It is not a goal. If they find profits maximized at a given price point with the parks packed to the gills, the parks will be packed to the gills. That's what managing purely by numbers does.

Of course the blind spot of managing by numbers to this extreme is the future. Disney long held a philosophy that you maintained long term success by leaving some short term profits on the table (a successful policy for many service oriented companies btw). That philosophy began to slowly erode in the 80's, but as we have recently learned, it was at least still a significant part of their strategy even through the Iger era. Continuing to diminish, yes, but at a slow, measured pace. When they erred, a course correction was not difficult.

Now that change is occurring at breakneck speed, and believing anyone can fully predict the long term effect of such rapid, continuous change is the definition of arrogance and is folly.

 

[DCLMP]

I am aware of what's happening. No reason to argue over such a silly issue anyway. Have a nice day.

Probably not silly if you live in Europe, but OK.

 

[DCLMP]

It’s not just the parks it’s also the movies and shows they are producing. Little Demons is a perfect example. It’s getting harder and harder to support this company. I love the cruise line but at some point my conscience may say enough. Hopefully someday they’ll get back on track.

 

[jimmymc]

I think articles like this are contributing to why Disney doesn't like their legacy fans. The newer crowd will show up, spend a ton of money on things like park hoppers, Genie+, and character dining, and post some positive photos on Instagram, regardless of how good the experience was compared to 5 or 20 years ago. Meanwhile the more frequent make a huge issue every time a menu changes.

One other line I want to address:
"Well, Disney, how do you expect them to fund the next 20 years of vacations to pay your expenses? Not. Going. To. Happen. Of course, there are exceptions to everything; some will be able to afford it, but not enough to write off the opinions and contributions of the aging generations in their 30s – 90s. Certainly not enough for you to redefine what Disney is and discard all of the fans who got you there without there being repercussions."

That just isn't true, at least at the moment. Plenty of people are renting cheap apartments and still taking massive Disney World vacations. The younger generation values experiences over things more than Gen X or Baby Boomers, and Disney is one of those experiences they want to come back to over and over.

One other key point a lot of people miss is that Disney can change prices in a day. If 5 years down the road there is a drop in attendance because of everything talked about here, they release a promotion and suddenly the park is full again.

 

[Gentry2004]

I don't think salaries are keeping up with WDW inflation - at least I know ours aren't - and yet there seem to be no shortage of people lining up (literally) to pay higher and higher prices. My husband and I say all the time - where are all these people coming from? I'm old enough to remember when a party ticket cost LESS than a single day ticket, and I'm not THAT old. The 8 day ticket I'm about to buy costs just $100 shy of the platinum AP I bought in 2017. The difference for us is that its our first trip in 4 years, and will likely be another 3-4 before the next one, which didn't use to be the case. The rate of price increases don't feel sustainable and yet somehow they keep going.

 

[Love Tink]

I think articles like this are contributing to why Disney doesn't like their legacy fans. The newer crowd will show up, spend a ton of money on things like park hoppers, Genie+, and character dining, and post some positive photos on Instagram, regardless of how good the experience was compared to 5 or 20 years ago. Meanwhile the more frequent make a huge issue every time a menu changes.

See, I disagree here. I know a LOT of WDW visitors go that first time and then say, "Never again!" They get there and it's crowds, lines, heat, sore feet....the kids are cranky, everything is overpriced, and they feel like they are missing out.

Disney parks have always been more expensive than the competitors, but they were reasonably more expensive. And for many of us, it was worth it because of the experience/extras/magic (whatever you prefer to call it). Now they are jacking up the prices, creating more and more expensive add-ons, and taking away prior freebies ... while at the same time reducing the experience in ways big and small.

What percentage of first-time visitors in 2022 comes away thinking, "OMG I want to take my family there every single year!" like so many of us did? The first rule of business is to retain your customers. How many of WDW's decisions in the past year seem designed to retain their customers?

 

[jimmymc]

See, I disagree here. I know a LOT of WDW visitors go that first time and then say, "Never again!" They get there and it's crowds, lines, heat, sore feet....the kids are cranky, everything is overpriced, and they feel like they are missing out.

Disney parks have always been more expensive than the competitors, but they were reasonably more expensive. And for many of us, it was worth it because of the experience/extras/magic (whatever you prefer to call it). Now they are jacking up the prices, creating more and more expensive add-ons, and taking away prior freebies ... while at the same time reducing the experience in ways big and small.

What percentage of first-time visitors in 2022 comes away thinking, "OMG I want to take my family there every single year!" like so many of us did? The first rule of business is to retain your customers. How many of WDW's decisions in the past year seem designed to retain their customers?

I guess it's impossible to know how well Disney is actually retaining customers in previous years vs now, but people's expectations are very different. Younger travelers today don't require the high standard of service that people used to enjoy and in some cases are actually uncomfortable with it. We don't see Genie+ as a cash grab, we think "Wow, only $20 to skip the lines." People who complain about the heat and sore feet would've never been Disney World fans to start, since those have always existed in the parks.

The parks are pretty full and Disney World put up it's best sales quarter ever this year, so clearly enough people think it's worth it.

 

[DCLMP]

I don't think salaries are keeping up with WDW inflation - at least I know ours aren't - and yet there seem to be no shortage of people lining up (literally) to pay higher and higher prices. My husband and I say all the time - where are all these people coming from? I'm old enough to remember when a party ticket cost LESS than a single day ticket, and I'm not THAT old. The 8 day ticket I'm about to buy costs just $100 shy of the platinum AP I bought in 2017. The difference for us is that its our first trip in 4 years, and will likely be another 3-4 before the next one, which didn't use to be the case. The rate of price increases don't feel sustainable and yet somehow they keep going.

There is still a lot of stimulus money floating around. I can’t remember exactly what we got but it was somewhere around 12k and we only had one qualifying child. We didn’t need the money. Remember families with adjusted gross income of 150k got it. So you could you have a gross income close to 200k and get the money. Insanity.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

we had season passes and their skip the line system was much simpler. Just show up to the attraction.

Their skip-the-line system is $100 per person, per day. Disney fans have a temper tantrum about Genie+ because it's $15.

 

[Jrb1979]

Their skip-the-line system is $100 per person, per day. Disney fans have a temper tantrum about Genie+ because it's $15.

Yes but it's that much to limit availability. It's not made for everyone to have it.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Yes but it's that much to limit availability. It's not made for everyone to have it.

As I said, Disney fans would absolutely melt down if Disney implemented such a thing.

 

[Heroes_or_Villains]

My grown daughters and I took a 5 day (4 night) WDW vacation at the end of April. We stayed at Caribbean Beach (bought 4 day non parkhop tickets) and we had a really fun time together. Yes, it was expensive and I hated adding Genie and ILL. Nothing worse than waking up before 7 and spending $90 immediately. I had booked that vacation about 20 months out on the first day I could for $2328. I just popped on WDW sight and priced out the exact same room and tickets and it came in at $3206.00 for about a 39% increase. Shareholder value at work.

Being able to see these price increases is why for every trip I book, I also purchase shares in DIS. Long term, I don't think Disney is going anywhere and they're still finding ways to keep the parks full even as they significantly increase costs.

 

[FuzzyPeach]

Theme wise they are different but the parks themselves can be just as much fun at a much cheaper cost.

I just don’t think you can really compare the two. You can have fun at many, many places cheaper than Disney and this has always been true.

Disney’s best comparison is Disney of years past. There’s a reason most of fans who gripe about todays WDW aren’t flooding the Cedar Points of the world.

 

[NY Pirate Princess]

Legacy fan family voting with our funds and our feet. July 2022 trip, 7 trips in 10 years, no plans to return. WDW might not miss our money but I sure will enjoy it!

 

[FuzzyPeach]

Yes but it's that much to limit availability. It's not made for everyone to have it.

Disney’s version exists. It costs thousands per day and is human. Most people don’t use it lol.

 

[DCLMP]

Their skip-the-line system is $100 per person, per day. Disney fans have a temper tantrum about Genie+ because it's $15.

It’s because for decades it was free. Universal has always had it and the way way out of paying is to stay at a deluxe resort which cost the same as a Disney mod. Disney is a significant more expensive vacation. The temper tantrums as you put are justified.

 

[Beer Me]

Their skip-the-line system is $100 per person, per day. Disney fans have a temper tantrum about Genie+ because it's $15.

The $15 bothers me because it used to be free (and better than genie+ imo but that’s a different argument). It gave me a certain amount of warm and fuzzy feelings knowing that you paid $100 or much more at other parks for skipping lines. How great was it that disney’s system was free?! Same thing with parking when it used to be included. I thought it was amazing that Disney offered this perk. It made me feel valued as a customer. These days it’s all so openly transactional. We were always paying at some point but it was never so in your face.

Disney continues to make itself less exceptional with these kind of changes. Their theme parks are still the best but it’s becoming easier to see a future where they sink to mediocrity.

 

[jimmymc]

Their skip-the-line system is $100 per person, per day. Disney fans have a temper tantrum about Genie+ because it's $15.

I still think it's too cheap. I would rather have an express pass-like system, or just go back to having it included and raise ticket prices accordingly. But that's personal preference, there isn't really an ideal answer.