"Disney doesn't know if it's child or adult credit"

[Pedler]

Hey look my 1000th post is about the dining plan, how appropriate, as some of you may think the other 999 posts have been about the plan as well. Sammie, in the end we will be proven correct, and then we can enjoy all the threads complaining about the "new dining plan".

The bummer about that is when you make your next post the count that shows in this post will change.

So, as we can all agree that in the end someone will be proven correct what type of timeframe would you consider to determine that? Obviously if Disney makes a change and starts to separate credits, CM's stop advising people to do this or they change the brochure to reflect that you will have been correct. On the other hand if by the end of the year nothing changes with regards to this and going into 2007 the DDP is still functionally the same would you reconsider your view that the use of pooled credits is not legit? If not the end of this year at what point would you consider the use of pooled credits legit?

 

[Lewisc]

The brochure shows all the credits being aggregated or pooled for the family. There isn't any transfer between family members since Disney has already "transferred" each family members credits into one pool. Read the brochure and there is only one conclusion.


Now making the credit non-transferable on a per person basis, getting rid of the pooling, would be a way to separate child and adult credits without having to actually create adult and child credits.

Disney had a couple of press releases when they introduced the dining plan. Disney said something like they were trying to create a cruise dining experience for resort guests. It said something like survey's indicated that was something guests were asking for.

Disney changing the plan doesn't mean you or or Mickman were correct in your interpertation.

The more people who take advantage of this feature, particularly buying meals for friends not even staying at WDW resorts, the more likely Disney is to consider changing the plan.

Statements by CMs, the brochure and the Disney website leave only one conclusion.

The fact that I wouldn't have set up the plan that way doesn't change the fact that Disney did.

.

But see here in lies the problem, you interrupt non transferable to mean outside the immediate family. I can interrupt it to mean I can not pay for a child and transfer that meal into an adult meal for me. For truly it does not state either way.



And where did you get this rationalization? I have seen nothing in print to support that this is what Disney had in mind. And I think it would be very hard to treat a non-cruise passenger to a cruise meal.

 

[Lewisc]

I don't think a plan change will say anything. I'll speculate that Disney anticipated guests using credits that were freed by kids skipping meals. I don't think they anticipated parents paying out of pocket and using the saved credits to buy meals for guests who aren't even staying at WDW.

Too me a plan change doesn't mean our interpertation was wrong but rather too many guests took advantage of Disney.

So, as we can all agree that in the end someone will be proven correct what type of timeframe would you consider to determine that? Obviously if Disney makes a change and starts to separate credits, CM's stop advising people to do this or they change the brochure to reflect that you will have been correct. On the other hand if by the end of the year nothing changes with regards to this and going into 2007 the DDP is still functionally the same would you reconsider your view that the use of pooled credits is not legit? If not the end of this year at what point would you consider the use of pooled credits legit?

 

[Sammie]

The brochure shows all the credits being aggregated or pooled for the family. There isn't any transfer between family members since Disney has already "transferred" each family members credits into one pool. Read the brochure and there is only one conclusion.

I read the brochure and see nothing to support this. Again it's interpretation.

Now making the credit non-transferable on a per person basis, getting rid of the pooling, would be a way to separate child and adult credits without having to actually create adult and child credits.

That I will agree with.

Disney had a couple of press releases when they introduced the dining plan. Disney said something like they were trying to create a cruise dining experience for resort guests. It said something like survey's indicated that was something guests were asking for.

Never read that, so unless you can produce the press releases, it is at best hearsay.

Disney changing the plan doesn't mean you or or Mickman were correct in your interpertation.

Mickman made that comment, not me.

Statements by CMs, the brochure and the Disney website leave only one conclusion.

Again this is conflicted info. I have never had a CM tell me this is ok, and I have had several that have said it is not.

The brochure and the website, offer no clear cut explanation of the plan, if so this discussion would be moot.

I truly do not care how anyone uses the plan. I do find it arrogant that some assume they are right and everyone that disagrees is wrong.

And Pedler is the only one that has offered to contact Disney by email and ask a rational question about clarification. Personally I think some of you are not comfortable with the answer you might get.

I don't even have a problem with admitting that official policy at Disney is hardly ever enforced. That does not mean it does not exist.

 

[traviesojmt]

Never read that, so unless you can produce the press releases, it is at best hearsay.

Here is a copy of the press release. I found it online. Here is where people get the phrase cruise-style. I put the phrase in bold type.

December 02, 2004
WALT DISNEY WORLD INTRODUCES INNOVATIVE NEW TICKET PLAN

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. (Dec. 2, 2004) -- Disney today announced an innovative new ticket plan – "Magic Your Way" – that allows Walt Disney World guests to create their own tickets for a customized vacation.

Starting Jan. 2, guests at Walt Disney World Resort will be able to purchase tickets to the various theme parks, attractions and other entertainment offerings that are tailored to the length of their vacation and the interests of their group – and allow them to save more per day based on their length of stay.

"Whether ordering a computer, a car or a cup of coffee, people want things customized to fit their individual needs," said Walt Disney World President Al Weiss. "And now Walt Disney World guests will have that same ability to customize their dream vacation, creating the ticket that is just right for them."

And because "Magic Your Way" tickets offer savings that increase with the length of stay, a weeklong Walt Disney World vacation becomes even more affordable.

"Recent research shows that longer vacations are high on the wish list for families," Weiss said. "With so much to see and do at Walt Disney World, guests want to take a week to experience it all, at their own pace. With this new plan they can – and at more affordable prices that reward more leisurely stays.

"Simply put," he said, "the more you play, the less you pay, per day."

Under this new program, a family of four will be able to enjoy a six-night/seven-day Walt Disney World vacation – including a stay at an on-property Disney hotel with theme park tickets – for as little as $1,500.

Even More Choices: Disney Resorts, Benefits
Staying in the "middle of the magic" at a Walt Disney World Resort hotel has always been the best and most relaxing way to enjoy a Walt Disney World vacation. And now Disney hotel guests get great new benefits, too, including more time in the parks and a convenient and affordable dining plan:


Extra Magic Hours: Each day the gates of one of Disney's magical theme parks open one hour early or stay open three hours later so Disney Resort hotel guests can enjoy select attractions. (A valid theme park ticket and Resort ID are required.)
Disney Dining Plan: Disney hotel guests who want the convenience of a more-inclusive "cruise-style" vacation can purchase the "Magic Your Way" Package Plus Dining. For each night of their resort stay guests can enjoy two meals and a snack at more than 100 select restaurants throughout the Walt Disney World parks and hotels.
With more than 20 uniquely themed Disney Resorts – Value, Moderate, Deluxe and Disney Vacation Club – Walt Disney World offers accommodations for every taste and budget. Now that a longer Disney vacation has become even more affordable, Disney Resort guests will be able to enjoy their hotel like never before – spending quality "R & R" hours between park visits, whether it's pool time, a quick nap, shopping or meals.

Happiest Celebration on Earth
New values and benefits come at a perfect time, as Walt Disney World prepares to launch the Happiest Celebration on Earth, marking 50 years of Disney theme park magic since Disneyland opened in 1955.

Beginning May 5, 2005, Walt Disney World is importing attractions from Disney parks around the globe to mark the occasion:


At Disney-MGM Studios, a high-octane stunt show filled with speeding cars, motorcycles and jet skis comes direct from Disneyland Resort Paris.
At Epcot, a soaring adventure over California comes from Disneyland Resort.
At Magic Kingdom, a magical, musical "Cinderellabration" takes its cue from the popular Tokyo Disney Resort show.
And at Disney's Animal Kingdom, Lucky the dinosaur walks straight out of the secret labs of Walt Disney Imagineering.
"Magic Your Way" Easy to Book
Magic Your Way tickets go on sale beginning Jan. 2. Until then, guests can find more information at www.disneyworld.com. Also beginning Jan. 2, a new step-by-step, shopping cart-style process on disneyworld.com makes it easy to customize and book a dream Walt Disney World vacation. Or guests can contact 407 W-DISNEY or their travel agent to book the magic – their way.

 

[Pedler]

Here is a copy of the press release. I found it online. Here is where people get the phrase cruise-style. I put the phrase in bold type.

.....

Disney Dining Plan: Disney hotel guests who want the convenience of a more-inclusive "cruise-style" vacation can purchase the "Magic Your Way" Package Plus Dining. For each night of their resort stay guests can enjoy two meals and a snack at more than 100 select restaurants throughout the Walt Disney World parks and hotels.
With more than 20 uniquely themed Disney Resorts – Value, Moderate, Deluxe and Disney Vacation Club – Walt Disney World offers accommodations for every taste and budget. Now that a longer Disney vacation has become even more affordable, Disney Resort guests will be able to enjoy their hotel like never before – spending quality "R & R" hours between park visits, whether it's pool time, a quick nap, shopping or meals.

....

Whew. Good save. I bet some people are glad that the cruise term is no longer hersay. I don't supposed you have a timestamped notorized copy of it do you?

 

[traviesojmt]

Whew. Good save. I bet some people are glad that the cruise term is no longer hersay. I don't supposed you have a timestamped notorized copy of it do you?

LOL, sorry, forgot to get it notorized, but I will be glad to give the link. I actually meant to the give it before and forgot.

http://corporate.disney.go.com/news/corporate/2004/2004_1202_wdwnewticketplan.html

 

[samijam]

JUST A LITTLE FOOD FOR THOUGHT ON THE DINNING PLAN.

I returned from 8 days a few weeks ago. I thought the kid vs adult credit thing a little crazy. First off my kids were 8 & 9 at the time of trip. I asked if I could upgrade to adult meal plan and was told no. The choices for my kids were rediculous apple sause, chicken nuggets for the most part at all counter service, table service was not much better.

We ended up using adult credits to feed the kids, and it was a pain in the
*&# explaining what we were doing. The dinning plan ended up costing me out of pocket money for the kids. I still think I did save money overall however the plan still needs tweeking and a junior plan is needed. I was told by the CM on the phone and the CM at the resort, I would have no problem with ordering my kids what they wanted but it was a problem and at all but 2 places was it a hassle. We did not look forward to dinning because my kids did not want to eat baby food.

 

[Lewisc]

Here is a copy of the press release. I found it online. Here is where people get the phrase cruise-style. I put the phrase in bold type.

Thanks for taking the time to post the press release. Internet discussion boards aren't a court of law. I can refer to, and paraprhase, a press release without having to quote it.

 

[Pedler]

Thanks for taking the time to post the press release. Internet discussion boards aren't a court of law. I can refer to, and paraprhase, a press release without having to quote it.

Lewisc, Lewisc, Lewisc... haven't you learned yet that unless you can provide detailed written documentation from multiple sources that support other peoples definition then it just doesn't exist. Apparently the only things that are allowed to do at WDW are those that Disney explicitly documents. Anything else is not allowed.

 

[Sammie]

I thought the kid vs adult credit thing a little crazy. First off my kids were 8 & 9 at the time of trip. I asked if I could upgrade to adult meal plan and was told no. The choices for my kids were rediculous apple sause, chicken nuggets for the most part at all counter service, table service was not much better.

We ended up using adult credits to feed the kids, and it was a pain in the
*&# explaining what we were doing. The dinning plan ended up costing me out of pocket money for the kids. I still think I did save money overall however the plan still needs tweeking and a junior plan is needed. I was told by the CM on the phone and the CM at the resort, I would have no problem with ordering my kids what they wanted but it was a problem and at all but 2 places was it a hassle. We did not look forward to dinning because my kids did not want to eat baby food

This is where I think it is really unfair. Adults can order anything using any part of the plan and kids that are hungry can't.

As to the other comments when the debate becomes more about putting people down and making fun of them because they don't think as others do, I am out of here.

 

[Lewisc]

As to the other comments when the debate becomes more about putting people down and making fun of them because they don't think as others do, I am out of here.

You all but accused me of lying because I didn't produce a direct quote regarding the cruise analogy. You could have accepted my post or looked it up yourself. This is not a court of law that requires proof for every observation.

If you attack and are proven wrong some of us will make fun of your ignorance. You don't get to attack and then pretend to be the victim when you're corrected. I told you my source was one of Disney's press releases. That wasn't good enough for you. So other posters were nice enough to post the press release, give you a link and then asked if you needed something notarized. You didn't accept my post when I told you the information came from a press release so the question is what is sufficient "evidence" to satisfy you.

I see no reason to send Disney an email regarding the dining plan. I don't have any kids so it's not relevant to me and the brochure is crystal clear. There is no mention of a child's credit but there is clear indication all the credits are aggregated together. Disney keeps track of total TS credits but somehow you think the guests are responsbile for keeping records as to how many of those credits were used to purchase adult meals.

We can certainly disagree if the plan is fair or if we would have set it up the way Disney chose to.

 

[Pedler]

This is where I think it is really unfair. Adults can order anything using any part of the plan and kids that are hungry can't.

As to the other comments when the debate becomes more about putting people down and making fun of them because they don't think as others do, I am out of here.

Nobody is forced to buy the plan. Its not like you can't eat at Disney if you don't buy the plan. If the plan makes economic sense for you and it works for your buying habits then great, get the plan. If it doesn't make sense then don't get the plan. Just because some people get a benefit that others don't doesn't make the plan unfair. If that is your definition of unfair then there will be many other pricing policies both inside and outside of Disney that you will also find unfair.

I am sorry if you found my sarcastic comment offensive. I was poking fun at your put down of Lewisc's comment. Rather than taking him at face value or politely asking for a reference you did rather rudely put him down and insinuate that his post was inaccurate.

I know that you don't agree with the pooling of credits but at times it seems that you are more mad that Disney allows this than that you feel it is against Disney's rules. Your post above indicates that. Just because the plan doesn't work for people on the bubble doesn't mean people should use pooled credits if Disney allows it. Your issue is more with Disney than users of the plan.

I hope I am wrong but I have a feeling that even if I get an e-mail response back saying this is an allowed use of credits you would still be unhappy with this use of the plan and continue to complain about people that use the plan in this manner.

 

[Sammie]

You know this is getting ridiculous. I could care less if they let you do this, or change it or stop it completely. You and LewisC can poke fun, make sarcastic remarks, say official emails are meaningless, post laughing icons and its all acceptable.

But give you back what you give others and suddenly you want to call, Foul.

This is my quote about LewisC cruise comment,

And where did you get this rationalization? I have seen nothing in print to support that this is what Disney had in mind.

You guys are really stretching to say that is accussing anyone of lying.

Everything I have posted someone has asked for verification. When I provide it, it is made up and deemed meaningless. LewisC made a comment that I never seen or heard, I asked where he got his info. How is that rude, or accussing anyone lying?

Obviously some on here can state things and they be accepted as fact, others can provide fact and they are scoffed and made fun of.

So be it.

 

[Lewisc]

LewisC made a comment that I never seen or heard, I asked where he got his info. How is that rude, or accussing anyone lying?

Obviously some on here can state things and they be accepted as fact, others can provide fact and they are scoffed and made fun of.

So be it.

I told you it was from a Disney press release and your reply was:

Never read that, so unless you can produce the press releases, it is at best hearsay.

I provided the fact and was scoffed at and made fun of by you. Just because you didn't read, or remember reading, the press release doesn't mean I made it up.

Other posters were kind enough to print the press release and even provide a link so you couldn't accuse them of making it up. You have the nerve to complain when people ask if you also wanted it notarized.

 

[Pedler]

You know this is getting ridiculous. I could care less if they let you do this, or change it or stop it completely. You and LewisC can poke fun, make sarcastic remarks, say official emails are meaningless, post laughing icons and its all acceptable.

But give you back what you give others and suddenly you want to call, Foul.

This is my quote about LewisC cruise comment,



You guys are really stretching to say that is accussing anyone of lying.

Everything I have posted someone has asked for verification. When I provide it, it is made up and deemed meaningless. LewisC made a comment that I never seen or heard, I asked where he got his info. How is that rude, or accussing anyone lying?

Obviously some on here can state things and they be accepted as fact, others can provide fact and they are scoffed and made fun of.

So be it.

I agree this is getting ridiculous. Sammie the reason I discount your letter is the mentioning of something that doesn't exist, child and adult credits. Disney doesn't use those terms and anyone with knowledge of the dinning plan wouldn't either. The reason I discount the person that was told by a supervisor that your dinning plan credits would be revoked if you used the plan in this manner. I think we can all agree that is a ludicrous response.

I can see people having a problem with the e-mail I sent because I used the example of parents using the credits for a signature meal while the kids are in the kids club. If I get an affirmative response back I am sure people will say my example wasn't extreme enough and doesn't mean anything. Frankly with the different, and inaccurate, responses I have gotten from Disney from CM's on the phone and with e-mail I find anything done in those forms of communications suspect. Its not a rationalization is it just the reality of the past performance of those modes of communication.

However I have never questioned if someone was told something by a CM or the source of thier information. I may question if it is or is not the policy but I have not questioned the source. You did question Lewisc in two postings on this and when he said it was in a press release you all but said you wouldn't believe it if he couldn't produce the source.

I am coming to the conclusion that while you say you don't care about how people use the plan you really do care and it appears to make you angry. I know you think its unfair for people with kids 8-9 in some cases. I know you don't like that adults pig out while the kids look on. (News for you on that one they would do that with our without the dinning plan) I know that you know managers at Disney that don't like this use of the plan. However none of that makes for official policy. In the end I think you are more mad that people are using a feature that Disney allows and that you find wrong. At what point will you accept that this is the way the plan is?

At some point if changes are not made you will have to realize that even though you don't like it and even though some managers in Disney Dinning don't like it it is the policy. I would think that as 2007 rolls around and there are no changes you would be willing to accept that this is the way it is. I know that if they were to change it I would willing admit this was temporary loophole that was then closed. Would you do the same?

 

[TheDisneyBunch]

Goodness, I just can not make it through this whole thread. I have read about the first 10 pages last night and a couple more today. Hopefully what I have been thinking has not already been said and if so please forgive me for not reading everything first.

Putting my flame suit on first b/c I know what a touchy subject this is.

We went on the dining plan last year and did everything just as we were supposed to, loved it and had a great time. This year our son is old enough to need to be on the plan as well. He will be 3 1/2 when we go. He never eats much of anything while at home much less on a trip. I mean, I am not kidding you when I say in a day he normally will have a pop tart, 4 chicken nugetts and either maybe one or 2 bites of what we eat for dinner but sometiems just skips dinner all together. I have tried and tried to get this child to eat and he just won't do it.

So anyways, I have been thinking, man, what a waste his food will be. We will have to sit there and eat it for him just to keep it from going to waste or just not order it at all ..but then what do we do with the left over credits? We went ahead and made all of our dinner ressies for ts meals. We figured we will just order his meals and hope that between us all we can eat them. We figured for the cs meals we will use his each day to get him a breakfast as he is more likely to eat that and then use ours for lunch since we know he will not want to eat at that time of day, just have something to drink.

So last night as hubby and I were talking we started thinking about going to the Hoop de doo dinner show. We thought this would be a great way to use his left over ts meals on nights he won't eat like at Le Cellier(twice) or WCC, etc.. We have character meals booked on some nights and that is no biggy, we will use his there anyways for him and hope he will eat some and if he won't they hey, we were paying more for that experience than the food for him so it is fine and I do not feel we wasted anything. We could then take his left over credits which would be 3 if he does not eat at LeCel or WCC and put them with our 2 leftover ones and we could all 3 go to Hoop De Doo.

NOW, I know many of you see this as wrong or cheating Disney, but have you actually sat down and added it up???

We did last night. Our sons meals alone would average $20 a night. So for 3 nights (how many we would save to do HDD) that would be $60 for his meals if we used them each night at a ts place. Then the other credits would be mine and dh's for that night as usual which we can easily run up $50 each so that is $100 plus our sons regular credit for that night..another $20. That gives the 6 credits for HDD, 4 of our sons and 2 of ours. Therefore the value of those credits would be $180 if we just used them all up as usual at LeCellier or WCC. Well, HDD is only going to cost $160.. SOOOO, Disney comes out better in this deal than they would if we used them all the other way around.

I hope I typed that out as it was in my mind. It was harder to type up than it was to think..lol

I just can not possibly see how we would be cheating Disney in any way at all by doing that when we would be spending less money wise and not wasting the food my son would have never ate.

Other than that we plan to use the plan exactly as others believe we should. We are both very ethical people and do not go around doing things we feel is wrong or would hurt anyone. I just can not see how this would. Now, we have not made up our minds for sure on doing this, but it is something we are considering.

See, all in all, the dining plan just really does not make sense for my son b/c he eats less than a 1 year old 99% of the time. We are just trying to use it the best we can for him without taking advantage of anything.

Ok, flame me if you will, but just wanted to add my opinion too.

 

[Sammie]

LewisC, I am man enough to say someone produced the press release and therefore it is not hearsay that Disney mentioned that MYW can be a like a cruise vacation. I don't see where that clarifies the use of the dining plan, but you know if you see it that way fine, I don't. So if you found any of my comments about that upsetting, I apologize. Believe me I know better than anyone how it feels to have everything one says doubted.

I realize there is a loophole. And actually I don't think I have ever said its a bad loophole, but of course if I did and don't remember it, I am sure someone will spend hours reading through my old posts to correct me.

I also know for a fact this not the way those responsible for setting up the plan up, intended for it to be used. But because that info is not printed in a brochure or online, it is considered hearsay. Whatever, I know what they said.

I don't even care if Disney does not change it, sometimes things are easier to leave alone than fix. That truly does not bother me.

What bothers me is everyone thinks they know for sure that those responsible for setting this plan up, wanted it to work this way. That is based purely on thier own opinion and not on fact unless you personally know these people. I do know them. I know how long it took them to determine what is a snack. I know how many snacks they reviewed before they came up with the initial list.

And you know I truly don't know why anyone would care if I accept the plan or not. I don't care how someone uses it. It bothers me that people try to rationalize it by saying that Disney does not care about it. You would have to be sure that everyone involved with the Dining plan believes that to make that a true statement.

I wish both of you well with your quest in this.

 

[Pedler]

I realize there is a loophole. And actually I don't think I have ever said its a bad loophole, but of course if I did and don't remember it, I am sure someone will spend hours reading through my old posts to correct me.

I also know for a fact this not the way those responsible for setting up the plan up, intended for it to be used. But because that info is not printed in a brochure or online, it is considered hearsay. Whatever, I know what they said.

Sammie, I think from the tone of your posts regarding people that use this in some cases I may have interpreted that you felt this was a bad thing. My fault if I read that inccorectly.

I for one don't think the use of pooled credits paid for at the kids price by adults was a design goal of the plan. I think it is an unintended feaure of the plan. Much like when Best Buy runs a sale on CDR's that after rebate are free. The goal is to get you in the store to buy something or maybe you will forget to file for the rebate. My going in and just buying the CDR's and filling the rebate so I get them for free is an unintended consequence of the plan. I am sure that there are people at Disney that do not like the use of the plan in this manner the same way I am sure that there are people at Best Buy that don't like it when I purchase just the loss leaders. But in both cases it appears to be an acceptble use.

Having said that from all accounts those at the highest part of the food chain seem to have done nothing about this and there are relatively simple, non technical solutions that would avoid the legalease that you mention. Those at the lowest level actually encourage it. You have said that you have spoken to people in upper management at Disney Dinning. That would put them in the middle of the equation. They could very well not like how the plan is being used, they could be unhappy with it. But it appears that the decision on this is not thiers to make otherwise they at the least could instruct CM's to stop suggesting it. My guess is that like any large organization there are folks, sometimes high up, that don't like the way the company handles a policy. This would appear to be the case. My advice to them would be to get over it. This type of stuff happens all the time in large corporations.

I view this use of the dinning plan much like when I get the loss leaders only at Best Buy. Its just being a good consumer. Neither may have been created with the way I use them in mind but both are aware of it and allow it. To me that doesn't make it unethical. If the goal was to use a program just as it was intended then I would never file for another rebate again. (One secret about why companies offer rebates as opposed to an outright discount is that they know a large percentage don't file for the rebate.) I don't need to know that there is unaminous support for a policy within a company to determine if it is a valid policy. There are many cases were employees are against a company policy. That doesn't make the policy any less valid.

A question you may ask the people that you know in dinning is why if they are unhappy with this aspect of the plan, an aspect that past plans have had, they don't at the very least tell CM's to not reccomend it and discourage it when asked? My guess is that ultimately that decision is not thiers to make. If that is the case then even though they don't like the policy it would appear that they do not make the policy and someone somewhere else has decided that this is the way it should be. As I mentioned about just because some people, even those in upper management, don't like a policy it doesn't make it wrong, immoral or unethical to use it. It just means that some in Disney don't like it. That happens all the time.

 

[Sammie]

A question you may ask the people that you know in dinning is why if they are unhappy with this aspect of the plan, an aspect that past plans have had, they don't at the very least tell CM's to not reccomend it and discourage it when asked? My guess is that ultimately that decision is not thiers to make. If that is the case then even though they don't like the policy it would appear that they do not make the policy and someone somewhere else has decided that this is the way it should be. As I mentioned about just because some people, even those in upper management, don't like a policy it doesn't make it wrong, immoral or unethical to use it.

The problem is Disney is too large. If you go into any fast food place at Disney and ask a CM wiping down tables who the VP over Food and Beverage is most don't even know.

Upper level management makes policy, sadly not all CMs have enough initative to know these people and know policy. Others are only there for a pay check; many are disgruntled about wages and hours and they will try to stick it to management each and every chance they get. It happens all the time. That is why I don't take it as Disney policy just because some hourly CM says its so. They are probably laughing the entire time they are sharing the info. I know people on both ends of the spectrum so believe me this is first hand info.

Maybe my problem is most of you, sit on the outside, read the brochure, read the online info, take what a few hourly employees or some manager trying to share some pixie dust says and you make into corporate policy. That is not how it happens. I know the people who set the policy, I know the headaches they have in trying to make it work. I know the challenges they have with some of the college program CMs that will tell you most anything and think it is a huge joke. I also know they may not change anything if the cure is worse than the actual problem.

So whether anyone wants to believe it or not, maybe it not a case of me not knowing, but knowing too much about all of it.

Anyhow I have made my apologies and this is tiresome, so good night.

So for the record I don't care if someone does this. It's a loophole or liberal use of the plan if you like that term better, and if you want to use it, go for it. I personally don't.