"Disney doesn't know if it's child or adult credit"

[bblanch]

I keep reading & hearing this about the DDP credits.

Does that really mean that if I'm a family of 4 staying 6 nights: Husband & wife, DD 9, & DS 4... that my wife and I could pay OOP for our 2 kids TS meals, and have 24 TS meals for ourselves? Not that we have the stomachs to do it, but that's the way I'm interrupting it and it just doesn't seem right.

 

[abaldacci]

that's correct!

 

[n2mm]

Though all of your credits are pooled. Your actual card does INDEED state how many adults and how many children are on the plan....02A02C, which is Disney's abbreviation of 2 adults and 2 children. You could very well encounter a server who will want to abide by this code. But as long as you are not at a buffet, you could still pay for 2 adult dinners and pay OOP for the 2 children's dinners at non-buffet restraurants. Just thought you should know. We went in September and had 4 adults in the room (actually 2 adults and 2 junior-disney adults) so all of our cards said 04A. I believe in the computer the credits are just one lump of numbers for each catagory.

 

[bicker]

And this is all subject to change, which might happen if too much capitalization of this loophole takes place.

 

[sigillaria]

Stealing is stealing-you can't justify it.
That's why prices have to go up at Disney-to cover losses from people who take unfair advantage.

 

[pedro2112]

Though all of your credits are pooled. Your actual card does INDEED state how many adults and how many children are on the plan....02A02C, which is Disney's abbreviation of 2 adults and 2 children. You could very well encounter a server who will want to abide by this code.

That "code" has nothing to do with the OP's question. Just the opposite. The listing on the front of the card is to prevent a child, who is using a credit, from obtaining an adult meal, which is against the rules of the plan. Not using TS credits during one meal and using them in a later meal is allowed under the rules.

For the poster who thinks that abiding by the rules of the plan which Disney created is "stealing," probably thinks that if one orders the most expensive entree on the menu under the dining plan is also "stealing." Or perhaps, if you take too many trips up to the buffet that is also "stealing."

I wish the moderators would step in and tell people that it is not acceptable to call others unethical, dishonest, or "stealers" when they are using the dining plan in a manner which is allowable under the rules.

 

[pezpam]

OK, I'm NOT flaming here - I'm asking a question and if you could hear me, you'd know I'm using a nice, polite, quiet tone. Promise. I just tend to over-analyze things sometimes.......

If the plan is set up so that a child can't order an adult meal using their credit when they're with the family, what's the ethical difference between that and saving their credit to buy an adult meal later?

I'm NOT asking if it's allowed. I realize there is a loophole in the system right now that Disney allows for the time being. I'm just wondering where people draw the line and why.

 

[bicker]

I'm just wondering where people draw the line and why.

If I buy credits at the child price, I should use those credits for child meals.

 

[n2mm]

You can save TS credits. Sometimes when we are dining, I'm just not very hungary, so will just get a salad, so I wouldn't want to use my TS credit. There is nothing wrong with that. On our last trip using the DDP, we had 3 TS credits left over for the 6 of us adults on our last night. The server applied the 3 TS credits to our bill and we paid the difference. All of our family members are considered adults, so we never have children credits. So using children credits has never been an issue for us. It does seem to be a very popular subject on the DDP board.

 

[Pedler]

Stealing is stealing-you can't justify it.
That's why prices have to go up at Disney-to cover losses from people who take unfair advantage.

I have to ask. What is your definition of stealing as it pertains to this case?

Most definitions of the stealing center around the following phrase from wikopedia

Theft (also known as stealing) is, in general, the wrongful taking of someone else's property without that person's willful consent.

As Disney willing consents to allow people to use credits in the manner then I am not sure how it fits the definition of stealing. To date the people that have called this use of the plan unethical, immoral or stealing have yet to show how, in Disney's view, it is any of those things. The only thing that they have used to justify those terms is to make us rules that do not exist. It is almost as if they are bothered by the fact that Disney does not consider this to be a problem and in actuality encourages it. The people that use these terms seemed to be bothered by the fact that a plan, as designed by Disney, allows this type of behavior and rather than accept that Disney is fine with the plan as it is currently used they use derrogatory language to describe the use of the plan in it allowed manner.

 

[Pedler]

And this is all subject to change, which might happen if too much capitalization of this loophole takes place.

I have two thoughts on this and I apologize up front for the long posting but this doesn't lend itself to simple math.

My First thought is not many people are doing this. I think you greatly over estimate the use of the plan in this manner. No offense to the folk here at the DIS but on any given day I would estimate that people that frequent the DIS make up less than 1% of the visitors to WDW. I would guess that out of the DIS maybe 5%, and that would be a high number, use the Dinning plan and do the whole credit pooling thing. Then they most likely don't use it in that manner every day. So that the in the know WDW visitors about credit pooling are 1% and that 5% of them do it for half of the meals. We are talking about 0.025 percent. That is 2.5 visitors out of 10,000. So say there are 100,000 in a day and 25 people engage in this behavior. Those 25 folks saved maybe $40 on the meal whose incremental cost, i.e. food cost, was probably less than $15. That would be a total loss of $375 per day. I admit my numbers are purely speculative and have not much basis in fact except that the people in the know are really a small percentage and of those an even smaller percentage would do this. I just can't see the cost getting that high.

My second thought is along the lines of lets assume everyone is doing this and lets put it in context of the overall marketing scheme. Here I will use some real numbers from our family. Our initial plan for our trip last year was to stay off site at the Nick Hotel, rent a car, go to WDW 4-5 days and maybe spend a day at Universal or just hang out at the hotel. The Nick Hotel is more in lines with the type of space we like to stay in and I really wasn't that interested in staying on site. Under the initial plan our budget for money spent at WDW was somewhere in the $1,000 - 1,200 range. Maybe we would have 1 character meal and another sit down meal. Definitely CS meals at the parks. Then along comes the Magical Express, MYW Ticket Pricing where an extra day only cost $4 total for a family of 4 and the dinning plan. The dinning plan and the Magical Express changed our minds and we decided to stay on site at WL. So instead of WDW getting $1,200 of our money they got somewhere between $2,700 - 3,000. They litterally got every dollar we spent in Floriday except for lunch at the airport on departure day. Heck the gift shop / pin stand at WL got over $200. (I still don't know how that happend? ) And yes, we did use 4 "child" credits and got a signature meal at Artist Point, savings after paying for 2 of the kids meals somewhere around $60. Assuming that $60 is direct cost right out of Disney's pocket they essentaily traded $60 for an additional $1,500 to $1,800 in revenue. $1,400 of that was for the WL for a room that otherwise would have been empty. Somehow I think the cost accountants at Disney would love to give us $60 in food revenue to get an additional $1,800 in total spending while at the same time draining cash away from other Orlando attractions.

I think we should make no mistake. The Magical Express, which is free for for the next several years, and the Dinning plan are filling rooms at the resorts, keeping people on site and increasing the per capita spending at WDW. I know with our trip next year the only reason we will be staying on site instead of staying off site is because of the dinning plan and ME.

For those that still find it unbelievable that Disney would ever be OK with people using a credit purchased at the rate of $12 for an adult that should have paid $38, a savings of $26, could you explain why Disney provides transportation worth over $100 for free to a family of 4? The initial theory was to drive out competitors then raise the prices. Of course that theory has proven to be false as ME has been extended and is still free.

 

[lookingforward]

I have two thoughts on this and I apologize up front for the long posting but this doesn't lend itself to simple math.

My First thought is not many people are doing this. I think you greatly over estimate the use of the plan in this manner. No offense to the folk here at the DIS but on any given day I would estimate that people that frequent the DIS make up less than 1% of the visitors to WDW. I would guess that out of the DIS maybe 5%, and that would be a high number, use the Dinning plan and do the whole credit pooling thing. Then they most likely don't use it in that manner every day. So that the in the know WDW visitors about credit pooling are 1% and that 5% of them do it for half of the meals. We are talking about 0.025 percent. That is 2.5 visitors out of 10,000. So say there are 100,000 in a day and 25 people engage in this behavior. Those 25 folks saved maybe $40 on the meal whose incremental cost, i.e. food cost, was probably less than $15. That would be a total loss of $375 per day. I admit my numbers are purely speculative and have not much basis in fact except that the people in the know are really a small percentage and of those an even smaller percentage would do this. I just can't see the cost getting that high.

My second thought is along the lines of lets assume everyone is doing this and lets put it in context of the overall marketing scheme. Here I will use some real numbers from our family. Our initial plan for our trip last year was to stay off site at the Nick Hotel, rent a car, go to WDW 4-5 days and maybe spend a day at Universal or just hang out at the hotel. The Nick Hotel is more in lines with the type of space we like to stay in and I really wasn't that interested in staying on site. Under the initial plan our budget for money spent at WDW was somewhere in the $1,000 - 1,200 range. Maybe we would have 1 character meal and another sit down meal. Definitely CS meals at the parks. Then along comes the Magical Express, MYW Ticket Pricing where an extra day only cost $4 total for a family of 4 and the dinning plan. The dinning plan and the Magical Express changed our minds and we decided to stay on site at WL. So instead of WDW getting $1,200 of our money they got somewhere between $2,700 - 3,000. They litterally got every dollar we spent in Floriday except for lunch at the airport on departure day. Heck the gift shop / pin stand at WL got over $200. (I still don't know how that happend? ) And yes, we did use 4 "child" credits and got a signature meal at Artist Point, savings after paying for 2 of the kids meals somewhere around $60. Assuming that $60 is direct cost right out of Disney's pocket they essentaily traded $60 for an additional $1,500 to $1,800 in revenue. $1,400 of that was for the WL for a room that otherwise would have been empty. Somehow I think the cost accountants at Disney would love to give us $60 in food revenue to get an additional $1,800 in total spending while at the same time draining cash away from other Orlando attractions.

I think we should make no mistake. The Magical Express, which is free for for the next several years, and the Dinning plan are filling rooms at the resorts, keeping people on site and increasing the per capita spending at WDW. I know with our trip next year the only reason we will be staying on site instead of staying off site is because of the dinning plan and ME.

For those that still find it unbelievable that Disney would ever be OK with people using a credit purchased at the rate of $12 for an adult that should have paid $38, a savings of $26, could you explain why Disney provides transportation worth over $100 for free to a family of 4? The initial theory was to drive out competitors then raise the prices. Of course that theory has proven to be false as ME has been extended and is still free.

This is an excellent analysis! I don't think WDW would allow the Dining plan to exist or continue if it were "losing" money and having to raise prices elsewhere to make up for it. The dining plan is genius, pure and simple. I can only imagine how well they are doing because they are offering it again this year (free dining). We are traveling with three children, two of whom are considered adults. My daughter (age 7) eats so little there will be times when I won't bother ordering her a full meal. For instance, she will eat a cup of soup and be full..then later I might buy her a hot dog (she likes to graze all day as opposed to eating full meals). So if there is a time or two when she orders outside the dining plan I am not going to lose sleep if her two teenage brothers split an "adult" meal that might have been meant for her.

 

[Pedler]

This is an excellent analysis! I don't think WDW would allow the Dining plan to exist or continue if it were "losing" money and having to raise prices elsewhere to make up for it. The dining plan is genius, pure and simple. I can only imagine how well they are doing because they are offering it again this year (free dining). We are traveling with three children, two of whom are considered adults. My daughter (age 7) eats so little there will be times when I won't bother ordering her a full meal. For instance, she will eat a cup of soup and be full..then later I might buy her a hot dog (she likes to graze all day as opposed to eating full meals). So if there is a time or two when she orders outside the dining plan I am not going to lose sleep if her two teenage brothers split an "adult" meal that might have been meant for her.

All you need to do is take a look at last years attendence figures when compared to Universal and last years annual report. Attendence and more importantly per capita spending is up. This type of coordinated marketing and leveraging all assets of the company is pure genius. There is a reason why Universal is mailing a single days no strings attached free admission tickets to some Florida residents in the hope that they will bring along a paying friend. Its not because things are going so well for them.

 

[Pedler]

This is an excellent analysis! I don't think WDW would allow the Dining plan to exist or continue if it were "losing" money and having to raise prices elsewhere to make up for it. The dining plan is genius, pure and simple. I can only imagine how well they are doing because they are offering it again this year (free dining). We are traveling with three children, two of whom are considered adults. My daughter (age 7) eats so little there will be times when I won't bother ordering her a full meal. For instance, she will eat a cup of soup and be full..then later I might buy her a hot dog (she likes to graze all day as opposed to eating full meals). So if there is a time or two when she orders outside the dining plan I am not going to lose sleep if her two teenage brothers split an "adult" meal that might have been meant for her.

Actually you brought up one other point about this. If Disney is willing to offer the plan for free to sell rooms and admission tickets during the slow times, a savings of around $100 per day for the family of 4 with 2 kids, to get people on site paying rack rate for the rooms do we think that they are concerned with the pooling of credits. For us we had planned on purchasing the dinning plan but then they came out with the promo. Between the dinning plan and ME we saved over $700 on our trip. If they are fine with doing that to keep us captive on site I don't really think that they have a problem with the pooling of credits.

 

[samijam]

Thank you. I am glad someone has put this in perspective. (Nice examples by the way) . I thought i was crazy reading the other post about the dinning plan.

One question if Disney is giving the dinning plan for free, what is left to steal it's FREE! (BTW I am paying for the dinning plan adult price for a 10yr old, who does not eat anything other than Candy! Is Disney stealing from me?)

 

[Pedler]

(BTW I am paying for the dinning plan adult price for a 10yr old, who does not eat anything other than Candy! Is Disney stealing from me?)

No, its only stealing if you are able to take an advantage of a legitimate use the plan. If Disney comes out ahead it isn't stealing.

 

[bicker]

Perspective is another way of saying "one way of looking at things." There are always other ways to look at things. Just be prepared for the possibility that at times that reality won't match your preferences.

 

[jonkatony]

Pedler, I agree that the number people using the plan this way is small and any loses to Disney sustainable as they must factor in allowences in any predictions they make for profitability.

I do not have a problem with people using the plan how thet see fit but even as well put and structured your opinion is it is still boils down to wether you feel it ok to pay a childs rate for an adults meal. This thread as all the others on this topic,will end in name calling.

 

[Pedler]

Perspective is another way of saying "one way of looking at things." There are always other ways to look at things. Just be prepared for the possibility that at times that reality won't match your preferences.

I am always interested in other ways to look at things. Did you have a specific scenario, with numbers, that would cause Disney to want to change / alter the plan? I am curious as to what triggers you think would cause Disney to change the plan.

 

[bicker]

What are you talking about, Pedler?