Disney dining plan will NOT include grat in 2008

[just another guy]

Of course, I also don't think 40 customers in 5 hours is a realistic number.....haven't been to WDW yet, but in the nice resturant's we go to around town, most times there is one server per section...thinking of our favorite place, our fav waitress is probably handling 4-6 tables at all times....figure there are 4 people at each table and they all take 1 hour to eat, in a 5 hour day she'd have served 80-120 people. It's definitely hard work but if each of those 100 people left only $2 that's a very nice wage. In our state that would beabove the median (of course we're not Florida touristy center either).

Sorry, but there are HUGE errors in your theory. My ex was a disney server, and I think her highest guest count ever was mayne 70, and that was an extreme. Average was more about 40-50. A restaurant may be open from 5-10, but the server doesn't get all their tables filled ASAP. The seaters go in a rotation. When you get your first table, it may be another 10 minutes until you get your next. Sometimes 5 minutes, sometimes 20. You then still have to figure some people may sit there sipping a coffee for an extra 20 minutes over the 1 hour average. Some may be there 2 hours, just as they might only be there 45. You also have to figure in the time to clean the table. If you get a little kid with rice, it takes even longer to clean the floor and seats.

Plus, lets say you have 4 tables, they hold 4, 4, 5, and 6 people. Your first table is mom, dad, and 2 children. Next table is 4 adults, but they don't speak english. Then on your table for 5 you get grandma and 3 kids so mom and dad can have a night alone. On your table for 6 for luck out and get 6 adults, but 90y/o grandpa grabs the checks, and thinks he is doing you a favor leaving $5 on a $120 bill.

 

[lindayves]

Hello,

I'm also Canadian, and it's my first time with you guys.

Let me telle you that when I heard about the way Disneyserver talks about us, I have only one thing to respond to him:

"Dear Disneyserver, you don't even deserve to work for the Disney empire ! With an attitude like yours, if I would still have my restaurant, I'd pray the Lord not to send me an employee like you"

As I said, I use to have a seafood restaurant, and before that I've worked as a waitress and barmaid as well. So don't you think I don't know about the amount of tip that we have to give.

Regardless of the type of establishment, if I had a good service (with a smile), I always give 20 %.

So, dear Disneyserver, ask yourself this question: "To the English, Irish and Canadian people that you blame to be cheap on tips, have you given them a good service ?"

Honestly, I doubt.


Linda

 

[NMW]

It seems to me that the DDP may have run its course. These changes may be made to discourage visitors from selecting the DDP. I for one applaud that and would not mind seeing its demise. I know it is a good value and helps folks prepay their visit and all the other reasons people love it.

I miss the days of being able to select my choices a couple weeks ahead or even while at Disney. I know the locals do. Maybe this change is being done to dissuade people from adding the DDP. If so, seems to be working based on the posts on the DDP board.

For our family the DDP does not change or dictate where we dine. We would eat at the same restaurants with or with out the DDP. We eat two TS meals a day-breakfast and dinner and even a couple TS lunches. We also eat some CS lunches-mostly because my kids want them. We eat an early breakfast (around 8 AM) and a late dinner (around 7:45-8:00). They are usually starving around 1 PM.

Before we bought DVC in 2005, we always did the meals plans. They were called dreammaker gold and silver. We loved them and I couldn't imagine doing Disney without a meal plan. When I was pregnant with my youngest and when she was an infant we did the gold plan-3 TS meals a day. Then we tried the silver-2 TS meals a day and thought that was perfect for our family. When we bought DVC (2005) we weren't able to purchase the NEW DDP. We still ate at all the same restaurants, ordered all the same things, made ADR's on the first possible day, etc. In 2006, DVC members were able to purchase the DDP, so we did.

It's not as perfect for our family as the silver plan was, but I like the all-inclusive thing. I can't help it. Even though it's not completely all-inclusive for us, since we pay oop for all our breakfasts and a couple lunches.

I just wanted to point out that not all people who buy the DDP are people who would not ordinarily eat in TS restaurants. We'd eat there anyway, with an ADR made 6 months before, no matter how we were paying.

I don't know if Disney is trying to get people to NOT select the DDP with these changes. I would find that odd, but who knows? What I would really like is a DDP that suits my family's needs better. Like they do with the magic your way tickets.

I do think it's a shame that locals (or anyone) can't call the day of or walk-in a restaurant. I just don't know if elimating meals plans is the way to go. I think a better way to go would be to require a credit card hold with a penalty for no-shows on dinner ADR's. That would stop all the double and triple booking that apparently goes on and open up a lot of ADR's.

 

[klinlin]

saying that if I have sub par service from my waiter/waitress and I get hit with an 18% charge I will not pay it. I will pay what I feel is right and if that gets me in trouble with Disney so be it.If I get great service then I will tip more.

Tips are earned.....at least where I come from.

Sometime in the past year the NY Daily News ran a story about a man who refused to pay the 18% gratuity and was subsequently arrested and charged with theft of services. (Just something to think about! )

I believe in adjusting the tip according to service, but tips aren't really optional. If resaurants had to pay servers a living wage, prices would go way up, and I think service would really suffer because those who are really good at their job would probably find a more lucrative field.

I have been following this thread, but may have missed something. Have we heard anything official from Disney? It seems we have a few new DISers whose only posts revolve around this rumored issue. Kind of reminds me of when Magical Express began, and we had all kinds of horror stories on the transportation board from new one issue posters.

 

[just another guy]

So, dear Disneyserver, ask yourself this question: "To the English, Irish and Canadian people that you blame to be cheap on tips, have you given them a good service ?"

Honestly, I doubt.

I know many disney servers, and even the nicest of nicest servers still get screwed by foreigners on a LOT larger percentage rate that americans.

Also, I see nothing wrong with Disneyserver's comments. He/she called is as he/she sees it.

 

[just another guy]

It seems we have a few new DISers whose only posts revolve around this rumored issue.

If I say the sky is falling, thats a rumor. If several, if not many people who work for disney, or know good friends that work for disney all report the SAME info, I don't think that goes in the rumor category.

 

[DiszyDean]

If I say the sky is falling, thats a rumor. If several, if not many people who work for disney, or know good friends that work for disney all report the SAME info, I don't think that goes in the rumor category.

While I believe that they will be removing the gratuity from the 2008 dining plan, unless there is an official release by Disney or the release of the rules for the 2008 dining plan, it still falls into the rumor category. A well-substantiated rumor albeit, but still a rumor.

 

[GreatLakes5]

While I believe that they will be removing the gratuity from the 2008 dining plan, unless there is an official release by Disney or the release of the rules for the 2008 dining plan, it still falls into the rumor category. A well-substantiated rumor albeit, but still a rumor.

Yup - still rumor.

But pre-DDP (way pre....early 70s...yup, THAT old...) I can remember wandering through the MK early in the morning and my mom and dad deciding on a whim to try that nice glass-looking building in the corner of main street. We went on for years to talk about the great breakfast we had at the Crystal Palace.

The first time we went back with the kids my mom had passed on but dad asked, with little tears in his eyes, if we "popped in" at Crystal Palace to have a meal. I had to explain ADRs to him.... he said "that sort of takes the fun out of it, doesn't it?"

 

[Sardinia]

I can see the point from the servers, everyone wants to make a decent amount of cash. I wish though that they wouldn't lump folks together based on nationality, what they perceive to be one's economic standing, etc. and base service/lack of service on that.

To be honest, I think most people tip based on service, and if servers would improve their customer service, they would earn more. Sure, there will be the occassional person who doesn't tip, but that's a bit of an "occupational risk" isn't it??

There's no guarantee of a certain tip (except for those places that automatically add it, but then that is something the customer is agreeing too beforehand, as each establishment, I believe, notes the automatic gratuity right on the menu) so servers should know it's a "risk" they're taking by choosing their job.

Hearing how some servers feel toward Disney guests really makes me sad I know, they want money, but you know what, it's sad to hear the "Brits are cheap" and so on -- if you're really that unhappy with the job as a server at Disney (or elsewhere) then perhaps it may be time to find a new line of work

I can really understand SOME Disney servers' fear that Disney will revoke the auto 18% tips -- with attitudes such as I am reading here, I can see why -- they don't want to provide the decent service to EARN the tips I know it's unfair to the good servers, but why penalize the customer because some servers want tips without providing service -- seems to me that the problem isn't with Disney, guests, or the DDP plan auto tip -- it's with servers who don't want to earn their tips. It is they, IMO, who are "ruining it" for the good servers, no one else.

 

[eeyoresnr]

Hello,

I'm also Canadian, and it's my first time with you guys.

Let me telle you that when I heard about the way Disneyserver talks about us, I have only one thing to respond to him:

"Dear Disneyserver, you don't even deserve to work for the Disney empire ! With an attitude like yours, if I would still have my restaurant, I'd pray the Lord not to send me an employee like you"



So, dear Disneyserver, ask yourself this question: "To the English, Irish and Canadian people that you blame to be cheap on tips, have you given them a good service ?"

Honestly, I doubt.


Linda

I totaly agree with you. I think these folks are doomed from the biginning with Disneyserver, just because of where they come from. not fair

 

[BuffaloGal]

I've waited on half a dozen of you. Many of you know EXACTLY who I am. This isn't a rumor. The contract passed. Most servers DID NOT want it to. It's just like any other election. Majority rules and we are, by far, a minority of Disney employees. Plus, all were placed into a strike or pass position. No 18% included gratuity on the dining plan next year. Disney will be releasing "official" info in July when it always releases the following years package info.

 

[nbodyhome]

I know many disney servers, and even the nicest of nicest servers still get screwed by foreigners on a LOT larger percentage rate that americans.

Also, I see nothing wrong with Disneyserver's comments. He/she called is as he/she sees it.

When I was a server - 20 years ago!, I generally received poorer tips from guests from other countries. That is just the way it was. The custom in many countries is not to leave a tip - it is already included in the servers wages. Like in Paris - I will leave an extra Euro usually, but it isn't necessary. I would bet in Europe that the servers receive bigger tips from Americans, because we are accustomed to that. It is weird feeling like I'm not supposed to tip.

That isn't to say that I never received bad tips from others. Groups were a problem when the 15% wasn't added. I once had a youth group of 30 or so people for 2 hours (including an extra hour after my shift), and they left me $2.00. At that time, I was making $2.01 an hour. I am VERY glad the Disney Dining plan has included tips - because waiting on tables is hard work, and I'd rather see the DD plan price raised than tips being left off. Having the tip left off is a big deal too. If you eat $60.00 off of food from the menu, that is an extra $12.00 that you need to pay. That definitely make it a much less valuable plan (but I'd rather see Disney charge $50 per day and pay the servers).

 

[eeyoresnr]

Yup - still rumor.

But pre-DDP (way pre....early 70s...yup, THAT old...) I can remember wandering through the MK early in the morning and my mom and dad deciding on a whim to try that nice glass-looking building in the corner of main street. We went on for years to talk about the great breakfast we had at the Crystal Palace.

The first time we went back with the kids my mom had passed on but dad asked, with little tears in his eyes, if we "popped in" at Crystal Palace to have a meal. I had to explain ADRs to him.... he said "that sort of takes the fun out of it, doesn't it?"

Maybe Disneyserver and KeepingQuiet and some of the other WDW servers that have posted here and keep telling us of the "Ghost Town" restaurants can help us out and let us know just which one's they are talking about so maybe we can get a table without an ADR. Like the old days

 

[BuffaloGal]

--

I worked as a server for about 15 years. In the finer dining restaurant that I worked at we usually had 4 tables at a time. The beginning and end of the shifts were slower but at least two of the four tables were occupied. I made good money for only having to work 4 to 5 hours at times.

I based the above figures on the low end. As busy as every restaurant that I have been at in disney I am sure servers have more than 40 customers per hour. If the restaurant has food runners, busers ect, the server should be able to manage more customers.

I agree that if each customer left $2, that would calculate a nice daily wage.

Your figures are WAY off, sweetie. I work in one of Disney's top ten busiest restaurants. Probably top 5, actually. It's a family style place. On average, we feed 1000 every night. There are between 16 and 20 chairs in my section, depending on where I am. Average table turn is about 1 hr and 30 minutes. Most turns, I'm going to get about a 75% fill rate on those chairs. That fill rate includes infants, who drink and dine for free. Our restaurant is open 5 hours for dinner. At break neck speed, I might get 4 turns, but usually it's 3 to 3 1/2. On an average night, I will serve about 56 guests (including the infants). That's not a guess. That's based on the reports that Disney gives me at the end of each shift.
And remember that most of us are part time and a lot of us are trying to be the primary bread winner because our spouses work in a non-tipped position for Disney. We aren't getting rich. I can afford to pay my bills.
40 guests an hour. Oy.

 

[Sardinia]

Just a little side note on tipping that came to mind as I was replying to another thread ...

How does the gratuity added at Pepper Market work for the servers? On the DDP I am aware that the 10% gratuity is covered -- HOWEVER, when we were paying one day on our last trip (we ate at Pepper Market almost every afternoon) the man at the check-out stand told me that though people think that the server gets the full 10%, he or she really only gets 4%. Is this true??

When he told us that, dh put an additional tip on the table for the server.

I just figured that the server was given the full 10% -- but then as DH pointed out, how would they know which server to give the tip to, being that there is no "code" or anything on the stamped cards identifying which server asssited each guest--

I thought that since it appears as though there are Disney servers reading the thread, someone would know if indeed Pepper Market servers only get 4% of the 10% added to dine-in bills.

 

[GreatLakes5]

Your figures are WAY off, sweetie. I work in one of Disney's top ten busiest restaurants. Probably top 5, actually. It's a family style place. On average, we feed 1000 every night. There are between 16 and 20 chairs in my section, depending on where I am. Average table turn is about 1 hr and 30 minutes. Most turns, I'm going to get about a 75% fill rate on those chairs. That fill rate includes infants, who drink and dine for free. Our restaurant is open 5 hours for dinner. At break neck speed, I might get 4 turns, but usually it's 3 to 3 1/2. On an average night, I will serve about 56 guests (including the infants). That's not a guess. That's based on the reports that Disney gives me at the end of each shift.
And remember that most of us are part time and a lot of us are trying to be the primary bread winner because our spouses work in a non-tipped position for Disney. We aren't getting rich. I can afford to pay my bills.
40 guests an hour. Oy.

Help me understand the math here as I truly want to understand...I'm coming up with an average of $20/hr in tips (I know this is before you share with assorted buss staff and bartender if applicable).....I'm figuring if of the 56, 30 are eating at the normal menu with an average cost of $20/pp. That's $600 in regular eating - doesn't account for drinks and the like - or about $100 in tips if paid at the DDP rate of 18-20%. Plus the meager hourly wage it still seems like it comes out to a pretty decent hourly rate. What am I missing?

(I realize this has nothing directly to do with the initial DDP conversation but it does seem to fall under the idea of 'seek first to understand...')

 

[mom2my3kids]

Hello,

I'm also Canadian, and it's my first time with you guys.

Let me telle you that when I heard about the way Disneyserver talks about us, I have only one thing to respond to him:

"Dear Disneyserver, you don't even deserve to work for the Disney empire ! With an attitude like yours, if I would still have my restaurant, I'd pray the Lord not to send me an employee like you"

As I said, I use to have a seafood restaurant, and before that I've worked as a waitress and barmaid as well. So don't you think I don't know about the amount of tip that we have to give.

Regardless of the type of establishment, if I had a good service (with a smile), I always give 20 %.

So, dear Disneyserver, ask yourself this question: "To the English, Irish and Canadian people that you blame to be cheap on tips, have you given them a good service ?"

Honestly, I doubt.


Linda

While I don't work at Disney, its true about most foreigners they don't tip as well.. I don't mean to be mean but its the way it is. Maybe they don't tip as much back home I don't know but from what I have experienced its just about right..Now I am not bashing any country, I love to travel and would love to travel to Britain and Canada so I hope no one takes it that way.We also have a lot of cheap people in the USA also with no excuse other then lets stiff the server and shame on them because they know better..

 

[allyphoe]

This isn't a rumor. The contract passed.

I think most of us reading here are aware that the contract passed. What we aren't aware of is the exact language in the contract, which may or may not support the conclusions being reached. So for those of us who don't have a copy of the contract, the consequences (or lack thereof) of specific contract provisions are rumors.

Anyone who has access to the recently-passed contract care to post the exact text of the relevant sections? (I assume it's going to be up on the STC website fairly soon; there's no confidentiality issue regarding union contracts.)

 

[BuffaloGal]

Help me understand the math here as I truly want to understand...I'm coming up with an average of $20/hr in tips (I know this is before you share with assorted buss staff and bartender if applicable).....I'm figuring if of the 56, 30 are eating at the normal menu with an average cost of $20/pp. That's $600 in regular eating - doesn't account for drinks and the like - or about $100 in tips if paid at the DDP rate of 18-20%. Plus the meager hourly wage it still seems like it comes out to a pretty decent hourly rate. What am I missing?

(I realize this has nothing directly to do with the initial DDP conversation but it does seem to fall under the idea of 'seek first to understand...')

You aren't incorrect. Your first batch of figures had me making $80 an hour, though, which is wildly inaccurate. And I'm not saying that it's not a proper wage. It is. Well, it is until next year when the gratuity comes off of the DDP. But, like I said, Disney doesn't employ many full time servers. Most of us work part time. I just moved from Michigan a little over a year ago. My husband worked in the automotive industry. (now you understand why we moved). Housing prices here are quite a bit higher than in MI. The house that I sold for $120000 simply can't be had here. Prices start at about the $200000 mark. My husband makes about 1/2 what I do. He's full time. I work in a tipped position so that we can afford to live. That's quite typical of Disney employees. Lots of families where both mom and dad are working for the mouse. Yes, we do it by choice. We do it because my husband's health (though he's in his early 30's and looks fit as a fiddle) was failing under the stress of his job. We came to Disney because we wanted to make other people happy. Because we wanted to make the magic for you folks that other CMs had done for us on our vacations. We could make other choices. We could be "smart" and leave Disney for better paying jobs. Maybe we'll have to, unless guests step up to the plate and take care of us like they know they are supposed to. Think of it this way..... yes, you tipped me. Yes, I made a decent wage. But, what you really did was make it so my husband could still spread magic over at the front desk somewhere and not have to worry about the fact that he doesn't really make all that much.

People on these boards talk all the time about how they figure Disney servers are making 6 figures. I know a lot of full timers and even they aren't bringing home 6 figures. Half that is closer. There might be a few full timers at CRT and the dinner shows who come close to that, but most of us are treading water.

 

[GreatLakes5]

I've been catching up a bit on my news reading and I did find where it said that there are over 20,000 people affected but only 5,700 showed up to vote. (These are rounded numbers.) In addition, CMs were given 2 hours pay for reporting to vote and if currently working, provided with company transportation to get to the voting locale.

Agree or disagree I just hope that those who were most affected by this vote (and I truly don't mean us consumers) bothered to vote! It's sort of like complaining about the President but not even bothering to vote in the general election.

Anyway, interesting numbers....