Disney dining plan will NOT include grat in 2008

[TDC Nala]

Hey Nala, good to "see" you .
I'm still somewhat confused myself about the possible DDE changes, wish Disney would stop "fixing" things that aren't broken in the *first* place, like the original Imagination ride, pin-trading, etc.

agnes!

Hey Aggie how are things down the road?

 

[allyphoe]

Ummm...is this a typo....or are we reading an old contract since it says through 2006?

It's the contract that was in place until the recently voted-in contract was approved. AFAIK, the new contract isn't yet available online.

 

[allyphoe]

Ok...and if I'm reading this right....it sounds like if I'm a cheapskate and only leave 10% so long as the service person brings a manager into the situation then even if I refuse to go higher than the 10%, now the Company will give the server the 8% I refused to pay?

If you're subject to a mandatory 18% gratuity, and you refuse to pay it for reasons other than poor service, and discussion with a manager doesn't make you willing to pay it, then yes, under the 2004-2007 contract, Disney would make the server whole for bad guest behavior. If you aren't subject to the mandatory gratuity, that section isn't relevant.

what the acronym TIPS means....To Insure Personal Service"

Sorry, that's not what it means at all. http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/tip.htm

 

[keeping quiet]

What a sensible and well-balanced person you sound, keeping quiet . Perhaps you can answer my question. Does your heart sink when you serve on a table of Brits? Are you pleasantly surprised if they leave a decent tip?

Debbie,

I have to say I don't consider it either way. The funniest thing I see on this board is how people claim the DDP or OOP results in them having better or worse service (this thought ran through my head while working today). I ask when I approach your table to guide you through you options. After that I am far too busy and concerned with getting you in and out as well as my other tables to even think about if you were DDP or where you are from, etc. I usually don't remember your ordering/paying status until I am preparing your check.

HOWEVER, I will admit to being pleasantly surprised to a good tip from Brits. In all honestly (not trying to make a broad generalization but hard not to without real conversation), we don't get consistancy in tipping from Brits. It swings wide for me.

 

[keeping quiet]

I'm confused again. Are you saying NOT all the restaurants onsite are constantly busy and full of diners, to the point that it's close to impossible to get a walk-up table? That would imply that the Guests (locals, DVCers, APers, etc) upset about not being able to make last-minute plans would be wrong?

They absolutely are not all busy. I have worked in Disney restaurants where I would be sent home after only one table or WITHOUT even having a table because we were so slow (and never had more than 8 servers on to begin with). One location I worked at had to regularly bump my server pay up to minimum wage because we weren't making it with tips. Some are gold mines, some are ghost towns and some are decent places to work.

 

[just another guy]

They absolutely are not all busy. I have worked in Disney restaurants where I would be sent home after only one table or WITHOUT even having a table because we were so slow (and never had more than 8 servers on to begin with). One location I worked at had to regularly bump my server pay up to minimum wage because we weren't making it with tips. Some are gold mines, some are ghost towns and some are decent places to work.

Yup, thats sounds pretty correct from what I've seen. I know a handful of disney servers. Some sell $1000 in food and drinks every shift. Other sometimes sell $200 over a 4 hour period.

 

[Amy5000]

All servers run the 'risk' of what will be left as a tip - WDW is not unusual. But remember that tipping is OPTIONAL - just as each server has the OPTION of going the extra mile or grunting and barely making eye contact.

Great Lakes: You are not the first person on this Board to make a point of saying tipping is optional...but I can't let it be said again without saying something. I don't feel that tipping at a table service restaurant in the US is optional. Servers make less than minimum wage b/c they are expected to get tips. There are a lot of service industries where you might not do a bang up job but you get all your $$. There are plenty of lawyers out there who do a great job for $300/hour and who do a mediocre job for $300/hour. They both get paid the full amount. (Or at least are legally entitled to the full amount). For some reason wait staff gets squeezed.

I've never been waitress, but I can tell its hard work. I also moved from a major city (where most of the service was excellent - they were professional servers who wanted to turn tables) to a small almost-city (which I fondly refer to as Timbuktu). When I moved here I was frequently disappointed in the service at several of the local restaurants. I remember once where I wouldn't let the server remove my signed credit card slip until she gave me a glass of water. (DH still laughs about that one). When the service was really poor, there were a few times I may have tipped under 15%. For truly poor service, I probably tipped in the 10% to 12% range a few times.

When thinking about it, I think poor service really should be taken up with the management, but in honesty, I will start to avoid bad places with consistently bad service rather than complain to the manager.

Despite my view, I don't hold myself up to be any waiters favorite patron. (Although I'm guessing they don't complain too much about me). I'm polite, try to clean up after my really messy kids, but I rarely order alcohol or even soda (thus a lower tab) and while I usually give a bit over 15% (and occasionally 20% if the server did something really unexpected), I'm sure that most servers would not describe me as a big tipper. Maybe that's worse in that servers who are more attentive and polite don't get that much more than the server who waits 10 minutes to pick up the bill with our credit card.

On a final note, to any Europeans reading this: I would prefer if the US were on the European system where service was included in our bill. But we are not and I can't change that. I know some of you may be uncomfortable with tipping, but on behalf of the hardworking and continually squeezed waitstaff in the US, I have to say you really should respect US custom when in the US and leave at a minimum a 15% tip.

To the posters who truly believe that tipping is optional...I know there was little in this post that will change your mind. But I just had to say it anyway.

Good luck to all. Amy

 

[keeping quiet]

I need to point out a few facts regarding the option of tipping vs the worthiness of tipping:

I get taxed on 13% of my sales regardless if I receive tips from them all or not.

I tip out bartenders, bussers and food runners based on my sales, whether I get tipped or not.

I make $3.65/hour, which is just enough to cover taxes usually.

Should you not tip at all, it costs me money to serve you. Should you tip even 8-10%, it usually costs me money to serve you.

I have stated before that I don't see myself as being paid by Disney, but rather paid by my guest. I am, however, employed by Disney and therefore, subject to its rules, pay scales, policies, etc.

 

[EmptyCinema]

I need to point out a few facts regarding the option of tipping vs the worthiness of tipping:

I get taxed on 13% of my sales regardless if I receive tips from them all or not.

I tip out bartenders, bussers and food runners based on my sales, whether I get tipped or not.

I make $3.65/hour, which is just enough to cover taxes usually.

Should you not tip at all, it costs me money to serve you. Should you tip even 8-10%, it usually costs me money to serve you.

I have stated before that I don't see myself as being paid by Disney, but rather paid by my guest. I am, however, employed by Disney and therefore, subject to its rules, pay scales, policies, etc.

I don't think anyone begrudges you your pay or tips. Unless service is absolutely HORRID, I tip a minimum of 15%, and for good service I tip 20%+. The other night my GF and I went to a restaurant where several parts of our order were screwed up (brought sweet tea instead of unsweet, food delivered to the wrong table, glasses always empty, and eyerolling when we asked for these to be corrected) and yeah, the tip was bad. I understand one or two mistakes (we all make them) but all night is just unacceptable. But if you don't get along with guests, find another line of work where your pay is not dependent upon service.

 

[TomD]

I have read all 18 pages and here are my thoughts

We have used the Dining plan and if all is true(and yes i believe it) about the price increase and taking the tip out then we will not use it

saying that if I have sub par service from my waiter/waitress and I get hit with an 18% charge I will not pay it. I will pay what I feel is right and if that gets me in trouble with Disney so be it.If I get great service then I will tip more.

Tips are earned.....at least where I come from.

Disneyserver Thanks for taking the time to report this. I may not agree 100% with what you said but I do agree with you on a majority of your points.

 

[mgilmer]

Very well stated.

Spoken strictly as a consumer:

1) I fully expect prices to rise - each year. I mean, it's the American way of doing things If my price goes up by not having the tip included in my DDP, so be it. Tomato - Tomatoe....

2) By doing this, some power has been given back to me....we had phenomenal service at Boatwright's last year. We tipped 20% on top of whatever was given him via the DDP. He was on top of things, personable, interesting, treating my children as paying guests rather than annoyances...the whole bit. We had a buffet dinner at Crystal Palace and I have no idea to this day who my server was. Drinks came and left but I never met him/her - the tip was still granted via DDP.

3) I think the DDP sometimes makes those of us on it feel like we're eating free all the time - it's often easily forgotten once we enter the kingdom that we DID pay for all the food & service just we did so in advance. In a way, sort of silly to tip in advance of service we may receive (or not receive). Sure, it can save $, not debating that....

4) A tip is not a right - it is earned. Those who will excel at waitstaffing will treat the job as a career & realize that like it or not they have to plaster a on & serve. I will gladly tip for that service. Go the extra mile (or more) & I will certainly acknowledge that as well....and your manager will hear about it as well I have had better service at McDonald's than at some WDW restaurants but there's no tip jars at my local McD's but I automatically paid the WDW server 18-20%.

5) And in regard to previous posts, I DO tip based on service - I do not hold my server responsible for poorly cooked food. If my food is late I DO hold the server responsible IF he or she does not have the courtesy to come over and speak with me about it....don't avoid my table because my salmon isn't ready.

Just my 18-20%....

 

[TDC Nala]

personally I would never suggest not tipping a server unless the service is TOTALLY abysmal - on the level that the server should probably find another line of work.

 

[a1tinkfans]

I agree! Problem is that is the policy in eveyr restaurant I've worked in. The other problem is in some restaurants the bartenders claim their tips (including what I gave them) the bussers claim their tips (including what I gave them) and I claim my tips (including the amount I gave to them) so the money is being double taxed. With all that said I still make out pretty decently! Although I make nothing compared to what my coworkers made at CRT when I worked there in 2001-2002. (as should be expected, I live in NH not WDW!) This was when only breakfast was a character meal.

Why would you be claiming tips that YOU don't keep??? Its NOT your income?? Am I missing something?

 

[Sardinia]

I need to point out a few facts regarding the option of tipping vs the worthiness of tipping:

I get taxed on 13% of my sales regardless if I receive tips from them all or not.

I tip out bartenders, bussers and food runners based on my sales, whether I get tipped or not.

I make $3.65/hour, which is just enough to cover taxes usually.

Should you not tip at all, it costs me money to serve you. Should you tip even 8-10%, it usually costs me money to serve you.

I have stated before that I don't see myself as being paid by Disney, but rather paid by my guest. I am, however, employed by Disney and therefore, subject to its rules, pay scales, policies, etc.

Good points, BUT wouldn't that give servers the incentive to give good service rather than EXPECTING a tip regardless of service?

We have used the DDP and also paid OOP, and to be honest didn't notice a difference in service between the two.

The worst service ever received was at Whispering Canyon -- server took forever getting to our table to take our order, didn't bring seconds though we ordered the Canyon Skillets which it's touted as all you care to eat (not all she cared to serve ) and didn't refill the all you care to drink milkshake even once, and didn't bring refills on my water, or on dh's soda even when asked (dh had to track her down to even do that!) -- are you saying that I should have tipped well regardless of this lackluster (I'm being kind) service? I don't think so! DH insisted we leave her something, but I was opposed to that -- actually, I wanted to ask to see a manager, because the service was so poor, but again DH said not to rock the boat.

I think that servers should be tipped based on service provided. If it would "cost" the server to serve a non-tipping guest, I see that as incentive to provide great service, not as a "tip me regardless" attitude.

Now, I am not saying you are a bad server, but I do think that tips are EARNED, not a right, as others have pointed out.

If a server cannot bring refills or provide basic service, I do not think they deserve a tip. I am a huge fan of the idea of Disney giving DDP guests the option of inserting the amount of a tip, ranging from 0% to 18%

 

[UKDEB]

I think that servers should be tipped based on service provided. If it would "cost" the server to serve a non-tipping guest, I see that as incentive to provide great service, not as a "tip me regardless" attitude.

I'm sure that good servers are more than happy to be tipped based on the service they give. If everyone adopted the approach of tipping at the going rate for good service, more for excellent service, less for poor service, and not at all for appalling service, then the whole premise would work. The problem is that, because it's discretionary, some people will choose not to take part in this code of practice. That results in good servers not always getting paid fairly for their work.

 

[Pumbaa_]

It seems to me that the DDP may have run its course. These changes may be made to discourage visitors from selecting the DDP. I for one applaud that and would not mind seeing its demise. I know it is a good value and helps folks prepay their visit and all the other reasons people love it.

I miss the days of being able to select my choices a couple weeks ahead or even while at Disney. I know the locals do. Maybe this change is being done to dissuade people from adding the DDP. If so, seems to be working based on the posts on the DDP board.

 

[Tigger1]

What did you base your figures on though....is it first/second hand knowledge or an assumption? And of course you're assuming all 40 of those customers actually left a tip....the servers posting on this thread seem to indicate many don't leave them anything. Of course, I also don't think 40 customers in 5 hours is a realistic number.....haven't been to WDW yet, but in the nice resturant's we go to around town, most times there is one server per section...thinking of our favorite place, our fav waitress is probably handling 4-6 tables at all times....figure there are 4 people at each table and they all take 1 hour to eat, in a 5 hour day she'd have served 80-120 people. It's definitely hard work but if each of those 100 people left only $2 that's a very nice wage. In our state that would beabove the median (of course we're not Florida touristy center either).

--

I worked as a server for about 15 years. In the finer dining restaurant that I worked at we usually had 4 tables at a time. The beginning and end of the shifts were slower but at least two of the four tables were occupied. I made good money for only having to work 4 to 5 hours at times.

I based the above figures on the low end. As busy as every restaurant that I have been at in disney I am sure servers have more than 40 customers per hour. If the restaurant has food runners, busers ect, the server should be able to manage more customers.

I agree that if each customer left $2, that would calculate a nice daily wage.

 

[Tigger1]

Keeping quite

I get taxed on 13% of my sales regardless if I receive tips from them all or not.

I tip out bartenders, bussers and food runners based on my sales, whether I get tipped or not.

I make $3.65/hour, which is just enough to cover taxes usually.

Should you not tip at all, it costs me money to serve you. Should you tip even 8-10%, it usually costs me money to serve you.

I have stated before that I don't see myself as being paid by Disney, but rather paid by my guest. I am, however, employed by Disney and therefore, subject to its rules, pay scales, policies, etc.

If I am correct, the IRS requires you to pay taxes on exactly what you make in taxes, after tipping out to bus boys, food runners, ect, not 13% of your sales. Back in 1995, if a server did not report at least 8% of sales, the employer was to report it to the IRS. It was then up to the server to prove why he/she did not make the tips. I would think a server would be fired if they did not make at least 8% in tips as they were likely giving very bad service. The 8 % accounts for the average of good and bad tips made.

So are you saying that Disney makes you pay more or less than you make in tips? Do you claim exactly 13 %?

 

[Luv2Roam]

I am just purely guessing on this for the DDP. But I am thinking the DDP was used as a means for various goals: filling room occupancy; getting guests use to or familiar with WDW restaurants; keeping guests on-site; keeping even the lesser known restaurants busy. (Just to name some off the top of my head.)
Now that the DDP was so popular and has been in effect a few years, it could be Disney is not making as much $ (if any) from the DDP as they hoped. And whatever arm of Disney does not want to foot the bill any longer, or at least in such mass numbers.
Who knows, maybe even some restautants were complaining.
I am sure there is no one reason or area debating what is best.
Everything evolves and changes through Disney. Why would the DDP be any different? DDP is what it is, and never has been a one type suits all plan. As always guests who are applicable for the DDP will have to decide what works best to fill their needs.

 

[UKDEB]

I miss the days of being able to select my choices a couple weeks ahead or even while at Disney. I know the locals do.

Here, here!