2008 Buffet tip?

[kaytieeldr]

So what, there food is ready when they get there, by your argument they would do that at both (TS-buffet), but the buffet there is no waiting so they come in, get there food, take a break and move on, there still isnt the order/prep wait. You constantly go back to the 'I have friends that....... and completely ignore Logic. Apparently people are resting for 4 1/2 hours at H & V after their meal if your to be believed. Your arguments continue to be rediculous!

Apparently people are resting for 4 1/2 hours at H & V after their meal if your to be believed.

"I've heard of 4.5 hours before" can't reasonably be interpreted as "people are resting for 4 1/2 hours at __..." "I've heard of..." very likely/sensibly means it happened once. It also doesn't necessarily mean it happened at a Disney restaurant.

Signed,

Just back from the Buffet Capital of the United States

 

[angelmav]

On the other hand, because it IS a buffet, people may tend to stay longer and eat more, because there are more choices, or even just to 'get their money's worth'. And, as just a guy points out, diners tend to sit between trips to the buffet. I know that while I don't wait until my stomach starts rumbling again (four and a half hours? really?), I don't jump up as soon as I've taken the last bite from the plate I have in front of me. Also, if the buffet has a carving station, there may be a line (meaning the diner takes longer to get back to the table, to start the next plate). Ditto for an omelet station.
And, just as at table service locations, diners at buffets tend to chat between bites/courses/plates. I can definitely see just a guy's point - some tables at buffets are occupied just as long as TS tables.

While it may be true that 'some' take just as long as TS, I would counter that it is not the norm, and I would hazard that you know that as well. That also ignores the fact the buffet server gets 25% more chances to earn what the TS server makes.

Its these types of insinuation's that boarder on insulting to justify TS-Buffet being equal.

 

[just another guy]

While it may be true that 'some' take just as long as TS, I would counter that it is not the norm, and I would hazard that you know that as well. That also ignores the fact the buffet server gets 25% more chances to earn what the TS server makes.

Its these types of insinuation's that boarder on insulting to justify TS-Buffet being equal.

Yes, some people eat a buffet in 30 minutes. Just as some people enjoy a 90 minutes meal at a buffet. It all even out to the same average a menu server gets.

A menu server can have guest eat quickly. They can place the order second they get sat, ask for the check with the meals, and be out the door 10 minutes after the meals are dropped off. A menu server can also have guest sip on wine for 20 minutes before even wanting to order. It goes both ways.

As I've already said now probably 5 times, a buffet server, under union contract, can have the same maximum number of chairs as a non signature restaurant. Just because they CAN have them, doesn't mean they do. A buffet server could have a small section of 4 tables that only equals 16 guests, while a menu server could have two large tables for parties that total 20. It goes both ways again.

 

[just another guy]

Non-signature servers get the same as a buffet. Signature restaurants wants the server to be more on top of the tables, thus the smaller amount.

My agenda is the truth. I don't go more that 5 days without seeing a disney server. Maybe its a game of golf, a couple beers after work, a trip to the movies, etc. I am very good friends with many servers, but of course, I'm here just making stuff up.

 

[angelmav]

Yes, some people eat a buffet in 30 minutes. Just as some people enjoy a 90 minutes meal at a buffet. It all even out to the same average a menu server gets.

A menu server can have guest eat quickly. They can place the order second they get sat, ask for the check with the meals, and be out the door 10 minutes after the meals are dropped off. A menu server can also have guest sip on wine for 20 minutes before even wanting to order. It goes both ways.

As I've already said now probably 5 times, a buffet server, under union contract, can have the same maximum number of chairs as a non signature restaurant. Just because they CAN have them, doesn't mean they do. A buffet server could have a small section of 4 tables that only equals 16 guests, while a menu server could have two large tables for parties that total 20. It goes both ways again.

Many things happen against the norm, thats why its called a Law of Averages. Just because you want it to be so and can think up an example that suites your purpose doesnt make it the case. You counter ever logical statement with your Agenda that the buffet server deserves the same 18% and provides the same service as a TS server. At least be honest about that and drop all the cloak and dagger stuff.

 

[just another guy]

Many things happen against the norm, thats why its called a Law of Averages. Just because you want it to be so and can think up an example that suites your purpose doesnt make it the case. You counter ever logical statement with your Agenda that the buffet server deserves the same 18% and provides the same service as a TS server. At least be honest about that and drop all the cloak and dagger stuff.

Lets see, you are going based on your outside opinion, while I've been there, talked with the servers, and know the truth. Like I said, beleive what you want, but stop by and ask your disney buffet server. 30 minutes isn't average. About an hour(give or take 15 minutes) is average, just like a menu restaurant.

 

[kaytieeldr]

That also ignores the fact the buffet server gets 25% more chances to earn what the TS server makes.

I don't agree with your assessment BUT!
- While the buffet server may have 25% more chances to earn what the sit-down server makes, a chance is just that - it's not a guarantee.
- Given the number of DISers upset with buffet servers getting the same 18% being given to sit-down servers, and apparently opting to leave the socially-acceptable 10% instead, the buffet server would need EIGHTY percent more chairs/diners in order to earn the same tip AMOUNT as the sit-down server:

$100 x 18% = $18
$100 x 10% = $10
$180 x 10% = $18

 

[angelmav]

Lets see, you are going based on your outside opinion, while I've been there, talked with the servers, and know the truth. Like I said, beleive what you want, but stop by and ask your disney buffet server. 30 minutes isn't average. About an hour(give or take 15 minutes) is average, just like a menu restaurant.

Well your obviously the expert then...

 

[just another guy]

Well your obviously the expert then...

I never said I'm an expert, but what I do say comes from experience, and first hand accounts from the servers, not a guests attempt at guessing how things work.

 

[angelmav]

I don't agree with your assessment BUT!
- While the buffet server may have 25% more chances to earn what the sit-down server makes, a chance is just that - it's not a guarantee.
- Given the number of DISers upset with buffet servers getting the same 18% being given to sit-down servers, and apparently opting to leave the socially-acceptable 10% instead, the buffet server would need EIGHTY percent more chairs/diners in order to earn the same tip AMOUNT as the sit-down server: $100 x 18% = $18
$100 x 10% = $10
$180 x 10% = $18

80%? Really? You mean doubling the 10% wouldnt outpace the TS 18%.

 

[angelmav]

I never said I'm an expert, but what I do say comes from experience, and first hand accounts from the servers, not a guests attempt at guessing how things work.

No, you said you had an Agenda, now that is the one thing you have posted that I do find credible.

 

[kaytieeldr]

80%? Really? You mean doubling the 10% wouldnt outpace the TS 18%.

Oh. I wasn't aware Disney is adding a 20% ('doubling') the service charge to DDE checks or to parties of six or more. I thought the figure is 18%, and that the primary objection aside from just the general principal, is that many DISers don't feel buffet servers deserve 18% of the check.

For a buffet server (at 10%) to take in the same dollar amount as a menu* server (at 18%), assuming equal checks, the buffet server would have to provide service to, again, eighty percent more filled chairs than the menu server.

If the menu server has 16 chairs, the buffet server would need to be assigned 28.
If the menu server has 20 chairs, the buffet server would have to have 36.
When the menu server has 24 chairs, the buffet server would need 43.


*With much thanks to just a guy for the term - avoiding the confusion of ALL sit-down restaurants being under the 'table service' umbrella.

 

[sandym718]

Its called I know its the truth. Don't believe me, send her a PM.



This will get long, but if ya want details....

For both servers(menu and buffet) they greet the tables just the same.

The menu server grabs a drink order, and goes to get it. He drops off the drinks, and answers any questions about the menu. He then takes the order, and enters it into the computer. If there is an app, he has about 6-8 minutes to kill until thats ready. If not, he has about 15-20 to kill until the order is up. During this 6 or 20 minute time period he should probably take a glance at his table one for the 6 minute people, twice for the 15 minute people to see if they need drinks. They can easily ask a fellow server to do so while they chill out of view. If there is an app, drop it off, and then check back 2 minutes later to see how its tastes. Remove plates when done. Same for the meals. Drop them off, wait 2 minutes, and then ask how it tastes. Another glance halfway into the meal to see if refills are needed. Remove any finishes plates as needed. Once most are done, ask about desert. If so, go get it, if not, drop off the check. You have to keep in mind, he is probably going though this same routine with 2-3 other tables, all at different paces. One is getting sat, one is getting their meal, one is waiting for desert, and one is waiting to pay.

The buffet server explains how the buffet is laid out, where certain things are, etc. He gets a drink order, and goes to get it. He drops off the drink, probably to an empty table. He stops by a minute later to make sure they all found some yummy food. A couple minutes later he stops by again(maybe just walking by) and removes any plates if necessary. This happens many times over. He asks how the salad was, how the meat tastes, if they liked the soup, how the cake was, etc. You know, basic small talk. Drinks are refilled as needed. He drops the check off when needed. Remember, the buffet server has this routine going on at 3-4 other tables as well. One table might be waiting to be greeted, one has dirty salad plates to be removed, one is waiting on refills to wash down a spicy sauce, one is waiting on clean spoons for desert, and one is waiting to pay.

Basically both servers make the same circle, from the drink area, to their tables, to the dish area, and repeat. The slight difference is the menu server has to swing by the kitchen(normally right next to the dish area) to check on the app/meal/desert. Most restaurant have food runner, so if a server is greeting a new tables, while another tables app is ready,the food runner takes it out. The menu server has the advantage here. They know the meal isn't out yet, so they don't have to worry about the guest needing new napkins/forks/steak sauce. At buffet server, at just one table, can have all their people eating at difference paces. Mom wants another side of a special dressing not on the buffet, dad needs steak sauce, and littly jimmy is already on desert and needs a new spoon.



A buffet server removes 3 plates, just as a menu server removes 3 plates. They are equal in that sense. From what I've seen/heard, disney is getting away from having bussers. Both types of server have to clear the table, wipe it down, and reset it.



If there are bussers(for either type of server) the server tips them out pretty well. If the server made $150 in tips, maybe $30-40 for the busser. Both servers also have to tip out their bartender.




Yes, both servers get 18%. How much the server really gets is all a matter of if they have a busser, food runner(for menu restaurants), and a bartender. I'm sure it could go both ways. I know Ohanas is one of the few places that has bussers. Those servers are tipping out a decent chuck to the busser, and then also some to the bartender.

Any other questions, just ask.



Um, what? More chairs means more work no matter it buffet or menu.

Thank you for the detailed explanation, though I do think a bit of the terminology ("killing time" for menu servers, but just "stops by a couple minutes later" for buffet servers) is a little biased. That's OK, that's natural.

I still think there is a good deal more time involved with the menu server (thank you for the term by the way, makes it much easier) actually taking separate course orders and delivering their orders (if they're not, they're tipping out to a food runner, thus lowering their tips). I also think you forgot about bringing a bread basket at many retaurants, checking to see if more is needed, etc. - usually before and during appetizer course if ordered. Also, both types of servers may (Should!) ask how everyone likes the food. However, if there is a problem with the food (steak not cooked correctly, etc) - the menu server actually has to handle that problem. Taking it back to the kitchen, etc. Whereas if someone does not enjoy a particular dish at a buffet, the guest themselves just goes back up and tries something else.

I'm also curious, because of your other posts, why you mentioned that a buffet server likely has 3-4 other tables going, while a menu server has 2-3 other tables.

I don't disagree that buffet servers work just as hard as menu servers - just that it really seems to me to be less work per table/chair.

I will say this - we almost never eat at buffet here at home. The one time we went to Disney- this past spring- we were on the DDP and the 18% tip was included. Thus I've never really paid the 10% I thought I might when we return in 2009. Based on some of the info you and some of the Disney servers have provided, I do think a 15% tip would be fair at buffets, since I leave 20% at menu restaurant. I still can't justify equal tip percentage, but I will in all likelihood do 15% now.

 

[just another guy]

I'm also curious, because of your other posts, why you mentioned that a buffet server likely has 3-4 other tables going, while a menu server has 2-3 other tables.

That was simply a mis-type on my part then. Non signature restaurants and buffets, under union contract have guidelines stating, that they can not serve more than 24 guests at one given point. Typical for each server is more about18 guests if all their tables are full.

 

[delmar411]

Our local buffets such as Golden Corral or Ponderosa do not have service at the level of a Disney restaurant.

Nope at our local Golden Corral I get BETTER service than we have ever gotten at a Disney buffet. During our trip in Oct we were stuck at Crystal Palace for more than an hour because our server disappeared. We had to wait almost 20mins just to get food as no one was around to be informed that the food stations were pretty empty. It was as if the whole place decided to go on break during the lunch rush! This isn't the first time we've had issues there. If the tip wasn't included the server would have gotten none at all, they were that horrible. They didn't take any of the plates away, nor did our drinks get re-filled but once during that hour.

Anyway, unless a buffet server does their job then I'd only tip the industry standard of 10% or $1 per person, whichever was more. I've worked at a buffet before and made plenty of money every night because I hustled and did my job well. It's a manual labor job, there shouldn't be any downtime.

Also doesn't Disney consider the buffet servers a tipped position? Are they paid min wage plus tips or under min wage because tips cannot be 'required'. I'd be interested in knowing that from an actual WDW buffet server (sorry just another guy but you aren't speaking from exp in the position, yk?). This would effect what I left for them.

As usual if my kids leave a disaster area then I tip for the mess since that goes above and beyond. (they rarely do it but have been know to be sneaky like that on occasion)

I'll be watching to see if a WDW server chimes in.

 

[ScottOKW2K]

It also means more in tips at a location that turns faster (buffet), but that logic keeps getting missed by you.

Here I would politely disagree. My family and I have been to Disney almost two dozen times over 8 years and have eaten at numerous TS, CS, buffet and Signature restaurants. Our favorite buffet - Boma - is a must-do for every trip. We find the we may actually spend as much or more time at the buffet vs dining at a TS. Why ? I might be trying a new soup on entree, or I might be going back for a return trip on an item that I particularly enjoyed. I've been known to hit on the zebra domes twice . I know from my own personal experience that we do not spend any less time dining at a buffet at WDW vs dining at TS. I find both to be a relaxing and satisfying experience.

BTW - I tip 18% to 20% at both TS and buffer. It's just another part of the trip that I budget for. If I can afford to get WDW, stay at WDW, play at WDW, and dine at WDW then I should be able to TIP at WDW.

 

[BuffaloGal]

Nope at our local Golden Corral I get BETTER service than we have ever gotten at a Disney buffet. During our trip in Oct we were stuck at Crystal Palace for more than an hour because our server disappeared. We had to wait almost 20mins just to get food as no one was around to be informed that the food stations were pretty empty. It was as if the whole place decided to go on break during the lunch rush! This isn't the first time we've had issues there. If the tip wasn't included the server would have gotten none at all, they were that horrible. They didn't take any of the plates away, nor did our drinks get re-filled but once during that hour.

Anyway, unless a buffet server does their job then I'd only tip the industry standard of 10% or $1 per person, whichever was more. I've worked at a buffet before and made plenty of money every night because I hustled and did my job well. It's a manual labor job, there shouldn't be any downtime.

Also doesn't Disney consider the buffet servers a tipped position? Are they paid min wage plus tips or under min wage because tips cannot be 'required'. I'd be interested in knowing that from an actual WDW buffet server (sorry just another guy but you aren't speaking from exp in the position, yk?). This would effect what I left for them.

As usual if my kids leave a disaster area then I tip for the mess since that goes above and beyond. (they rarely do it but have been know to be sneaky like that on occasion)

I'll be watching to see if a WDW server chimes in.

All servers at WDW make the same wages.... buffet or signature.... it matters not. It's about 1/2 of minumum wage.

 

[BuffaloGal]

So what, there food is ready when they get there, by your argument they would do that at both (TS-buffet), but the buffet there is no waiting so they come in, get there food, take a break and move on, there still isnt the order/prep wait. You constantly go back to the 'I have friends that....... and completely ignore Logic. Apparently people are resting for 4 1/2 hours at H & V after their meal if your to be believed. Your arguments continue to be rediculous!

Actually, his arguments aren't ridiculous at all. I can actually turn my tables at my hard menu restaurant slightly faster than I can at the family style place. The family style place has the food precooked, preplated, and ready to go. Everyone is eating the exact same thing. We just carry it out. Not all that much different on the prep time line than a buffet. However, most people at the menu restaurant don't order all 3 courses. They also aren't entitled to more than one drink choice without paying extra. So, by comparison, I have a lot more people eating a lot more courses and sipping coffee over dessert at the Family Style location. Average turn time at the hard menu place for me: between 45 min and 1hr and 15 min. Average for Family style is 1 hr 15 min to about 2 hrs.

 

[Tricia1972]

Thank you for such a specific run down of what is expected of a server! I am quoting you and answering with my personal experiences to better explain why I feel about buffet service in general. Maybe seeing what I have personally experienced will better help you and others see a different point of (the customer's) view.

....
The menu server grabs a drink order, and goes to get it. He drops off the drinks, and answers any questions about the menu. He then takes the order, and enters it into the computer. If there is an app, he has about 6-8 minutes to kill until thats ready. If not, he has about 15-20 to kill until the order is up. During this 6 or 20 minute time period he should probably take a glance at his table one for the 6 minute people, twice for the 15 minute people to see if they need drinks. They can easily ask a fellow server to do so while they chill out of view. If there is an app, drop it off, and then check back 2 minutes later to see how its tastes. Remove plates when done. Same for the meals. Drop them off, wait 2 minutes, and then ask how it tastes. Another glance halfway into the meal to see if refills are needed. Remove any finishes plates as needed. Once most are done, ask about desert. If so, go get it, if not, drop off the check. You have to keep in mind, he is probably going though this same routine with 2-3 other tables, all at different paces. One is getting sat, one is getting their meal, one is waiting for desert, and one is waiting to pay.

The buffet server explains how the buffet is laid out, where certain things are, etc.

I've eaten at CM's three times, Gulliver's once, Boma once and Crystal Palace four times. This has never happened. They point where the buffet is and let us help ourselves.

He gets a drink order, and goes to get it. He drops off the drink, probably to an empty table.

True in all cases

He stops by a minute later to make sure they all found some yummy food.

This hasn't happened in my experience

A couple minutes later he stops by again(maybe just walking by) and removes any plates if necessary. This happens many times over.

Usually true, quite often though the plates really pile up.

He asks how the salad was, how the meat tastes, if they liked the soup, how the cake was, etc. You know, basic small talk.

Not usually true, I can't think of a time that we've discussed the food after we get it.

Drinks are refilled as needed. He drops the check off when needed. Remember, the buffet server has this routine going on at 3-4 other tables as well. One table might be waiting to be greeted, one has dirty salad plates to be removed, one is waiting on refills to wash down a spicy sauce, one is waiting on clean spoons for desert, and one is waiting to pay.

Also all true in my experience

Basically both servers make the same circle, from the drink area, to their tables, to the dish area, and repeat. The slight difference is the menu server has to swing by the kitchen(normally right next to the dish area) to check on the app/meal/desert. Most restaurant have food runner, so if a server is greeting a new tables, while another tables app is ready,the food runner takes it out. The menu server has the advantage here. They know the meal isn't out yet, so they don't have to worry about the guest needing new napkins/forks/steak sauce.

TRUE - I have had many a food runner bring us our dinner at a TS location.

At buffet server, at just one table, can have all their people eating at difference paces. Mom wants another side of a special dressing not on the buffet, dad needs steak sauce, and littly jimmy is already on desert and needs a new spoon.

Buffet servers must love us - we never knew we could special request, we're content with what's out there for us and our drink refills

A buffet server removes 3 plates, just as a menu server removes 3 plates. They are equal in that sense. From what I've seen/heard, disney is getting away from having bussers. Both types of server have to clear the table, wipe it down, and reset it.

That's a lot more work for the server, and that's not very fair for either side. I guess the only plus would be that they don't have to tip out the bussers if they do their work. As a customer I hope that there's lots of hand sanitizer out there. I am not sure how I feel about the same hands cleaning dirty plates that are bringing me my clean plates.

If there are bussers(for either type of server) the server tips them out pretty well. If the server made $150 in tips, maybe $30-40 for the busser. Both servers also have to tip out their bartender.

Yes, both servers get 18%. How much the server really gets is all a matter of if they have a busser, food runner(for menu restaurants), and a bartender. I'm sure it could go both ways. I know Ohanas is one of the few places that has bussers. Those servers are tipping out a decent chuck to the busser, and then also some to the bartender.

Any other questions, just ask.

We generally tip 15-18% to a buffet server and about 18-20% for a TS server. I still feel that personally I am getting more of a service for me at a buffet and in my experience at Disney buffets and sit down TS I get more personalized service at the sit down TS. If a buffet server goes above and beyond, explaining the set out and doing all of the things I have not experienced previously I can see tipping closer to 20% - just like a sit down TS.

(Though because we are DDE AND have a party of 7 - we'll be paying a minimum of 18% and so long as service isn't abysmal, we won't complain about that 18%.)

 

[Pumbaa_]

The personal attacks in this thread have closed the topic.