Who thinks the CDC will roll back their new mask rules from two days ago?

[Verity_]

But this is where the confusion comes in.

The CDC says you don't have to wear a mask if you are vaccinated.

I will obey local store rules. Some will follow the science that CDC has presented to them.

Lots of us understand and respect science. At the same time, we can also respect the current policy of local stores.

 

[Monykalyn]

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations84% of the MOST VULNERABLE are at least one shot, wit 59% of > 18 is at least one shot. It's time to be optimistic, however the trauma inflicted by fear driven media WILL take some time to recover. IF the CDC and media had been clear from beginning about risk stratification/mitigation many wouldn't be so traumatized and we'd likely have saved many lives. Instead we must now be 'safe' and nothing but 100% 'safe' will do for too many.
Also-the country as a whole are <4% positivity rate! a drop of 15% on average from just a week ago.
PERSPECTIVE is important. Instead allll we hear now is "scary variant"-fight the urge to be afraid, it will take time to get used to this too!. Listen to real world epidemiologists and virologists (not political appointees)

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But this is where the confusion comes in.

The CDC says you don't have to wear a mask if you are vaccinated.

I will obey local store rules. Some will follow the science that CDC has presented to them.

I'm not the poster you're quoting but I'm going to repeat what I said on your thread that got locked:

"I fully support people who don't want to patronize a place that has a requirement they don't like. That's always been okay to me long before the pandemic but like others mentioned just respect their decision to do it, regardless of whether they are going to kick you out, or even approach you.

For the longest time there were people supported who business' rights in determining things for themselves such as when they can and cannot be open, how long they can be open for, their occupancy limits, and more. If that was you (and I include myself in this), then support them in this as well if they want to maintain masks or request you wear masks, respect that it's their choice (if they are without a mandate covering it most especially). If you have a favorite business that was impacted by a closure or occupancy limit or whatever and you supported them throughout all of this if they have a mask request or requirement support them in this as well. Vaccinated or not."

If in this case, like another poster mentioned, this area has a local mandate, that's what you need to follow and Costco's policy explicitly states that. In this case the poster should be going by their local mandate which aligns with Costco's policy of no change even if you're fully vaccinated.

Clearly people have valid reasons to be concerned about how our fellow citizens will react if people will just say "yeah I don't care what your policy is"

 

[wenrob]

Don’t get me wrong - I totally agree with you. Whether others agree our strict mitigation factors helped or not, we did a lot of hard work to get here. And after such a horrible winter, I think kicking buff is accurate.

I was just letting you know where that came from. They quoted you but then quoted me without actually quoting me.

 

[EACarlson]

But this is where the confusion comes in.

The CDC says you don't have to wear a mask if you are vaccinated.

I will obey local store rules. Some will follow the science that CDC has presented to them.

This has been one of the biggest issues that has been flagrantly ignored in all of this. Businesses have the authority to put almost whatever restrictions they want on their customers. Regardless of what the CDC recommends. Remember Menards put mask requirements in place in all of their stores long before any government "mandates." I am going to honor the wishes of whatever business I am going into, if I find that onerous or offensive to my beliefs I won't shop there or utilize their services.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

But this is where the confusion comes in.

The CDC says you don't have to wear a mask if you are vaccinated.

I will obey local store rules. Some will follow the science that CDC has presented to them.

I don't see this as a confusing when we're talking about a business having a policy. I think if someone said 'well the cdc says I don't have to so I'm not going to doesn't matter what your policy is' they are being deliberately obtuse. Haven't we all been aware of stores having their own policies throughout?

Are people just giving convenient excuses to do what they want to do because that's what they want to do. One minute they follow the policy but the next they don't?

Following the science is like this new buzz phrase, pulled out when it suits people, at least from what I'm seeing.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Do you think the differences may be how they count individuals? Like in-state vs out of state?

I know my county's data does not include county residents who received their shots not within our state (like our neighboring state). The state data is supposed to be sharable but the county information does not. It's been explained to us that the CDC has the information from outside of the area for my specific area. IDK just wondering. Throughout all of this I feel like I've constantly been chasing what the metrics mean and how they came to it lol.

I can’t find a date last updated on the Johns Hopkins page, but my guess is it’s just outdated info. I won’t say for certain because I don’t live in a border city, but I don’t think CA allowed out of state people to be vaccinated within our state and while I’m sure there were some who went to other states, the JH count is almost 2 million people short and I don’t believe that many would have gone out of state.

The state page gets updated every weekday, so is current as of Friday night. And I believe those numbers. Since both the CDC and state show similar info, I think the JH info is wrong/outdated.

 

[EACarlson]

I don't see this as a confusing when we're talking about a business having a policy. I think if someone said 'well the cdc says I don't have to so I'm not going to doesn't matter what your policy is' they are being deliberately obtuse. Haven't we all been aware of stores having their own policies throughout?

Following the science is like this new buzz phrase, pulled out when it suits people, at least from what I'm seeing.

Many businesses in many states for the last 15 months have been not been allowed to have their own policies. How many state and local governments have said just follow whatever the CDC recommends? "Following the science" was the buzzword that Fauci, Cuomo, Newsom, Whitmer, Walz and Evers harped on for months and months until the "science" they were following was proven false, then they started and have continued to ignore the science.

 

[tippity]

Well first, I didn’t say “kicking butt”. I said CA is doing is great. We are. We DO have the lowest percent positive in the nation. Also remember population sizes. It’s much easier to get a state with 1.5 million fully vaccinated than it is to get one of 39.5 million. And the vaccination rates I mentioned for my county and San Francisco are accurate. LA County, a hot spot, is expected to reach herd immunity in July.

But also, the CDC disagrees with you. We’re above average in all age groups, towards the top in 18+ and one of the top in 12+. So yeah, we’re doing great.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations

Well first, I didn’t say “kicking butt”. I said CA is doing is great. We are. We DO have the lowest percent positive in the nation. Also remember population sizes. It’s much easier to get a state with 1.5 million fully vaccinated than it is to get one of 39.5 million. And the vaccination rates I mentioned for my county and San Francisco are accurate. LA County, a hot spot, is expected to reach herd immunity in July.

But also, the CDC disagrees with you. We’re above average in all age groups, towards the top in 18+ and one of the top in 12+. So yeah, we’re doing great.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations
ETA: The Johns Hopkins percentage is way is off. CA has 48.3% fully vaccinated. And another 15.2% partially vaccinated. That puts us way ahead on the chart you posted.

https://covid19.ca.gov/vaccination-progress-data/

You're showing the same chart as Johns Hopkins for the CDC. Actually, Johns Hopkins is the data repository for the Covid pandemic worldwide.

 

[mjkacmom]

Many businesses in many states for the last 15 months have been not been allowed to have their own policies. How many state and local governments have said just follow whatever the CDC recommends? "Following the science" was the buzzword that Fauci, Cuomo, Newsom, Whitmer, Walz and Evers harped on for months and months until the "science" they were following was proven false, then they started and have continued to ignore the science.

They’ve been able to have their own policies. CDC’s recommendations are a guide, but policies can be stricter. Our governor sats mask here must be worn indoors, stores can’t say no to masks even though the cdc says it’s okay.

 

[Colleen27]

I can’t find a date last updated on the Johns Hopkins page, but my guess is it’s just outdated info. I won’t say for certain because I don’t live in a border city, but I don’t think CA allowed out of state people to be vaccinated within our state and while I’m sure there were some who went to other states, the JH count is almost 2 million people short and I don’t believe that many would have gone out of state.

The state page gets updated every weekday, so is current as of Friday night. And I believe those numbers. Since both the CDC and state show similar info, I think the JH info is wrong/outdated.

IIRC, because I did explore these discrepancies a bit a while back, the data collection process is county -> state -> CDC -> JHU. So there are some data delays as the information moves upward, and the state and county figures tend to be the most current while the state and higher figures are the most inclusive (because state-run and private pharmacy partners report directly to the state, not to the counties where they're located).

There's also a difference in how JHU calculates vaccination rates, at least when compared to my state's dashboard. They use the whole population as the denominator, while the state and county reporting use the vaccine-eligible population. So JHU's percentage is significantly lower because it includes everyone while the state percentages (at least in Michigan) haven't begun counting 12-15 yet and won't include <12 until there is a vaccine approved for them.

 

[goodeats]

I'm confused, if you're in an area where local mandates require that they ask if you have a mask does that mean you're supposed to be wearing a mask? Did you just go around Costco without a mask despite you needing to (if that's what the local mandate states) because you wanted to? Are you fully vaccinated and your local mandate allows for you to not wear a mask because of that?

If the government mandate you wear a yellow star because you’re vaccinated would you? I don’t believe the mask mandate is legal or enforceable outside of government buildings or airplane/train/bus travel. I am fully vaccinated, but since I live in America yes I do think I can shop maskless anytime I want. It’s up to the store to withhold services from me for not following their rules. IME, this does not happen.

 

[tippity]

Don’t get me wrong - I totally agree with you. Whether others agree our strict mitigation factors helped or not, we did a lot of hard work to get here. And after such a horrible winter, I think kicking buff is accurate.

Everyone has suffered through the pandemic, and everyone worldwide has suffered and sacrificed.
Yes, California closed a lot of businesses, but there is no evidence of cause and effect. If I am wrong , please cite the studies supporting the assertion that California's "strict mitigation factors" have been successful in combating the pandemic.

I am seeing that infection rates are going down nationwide, regardless of a state's restrictions.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

If the government mandate you wear a yellow star because you’re vaccinated would you? I don’t believe the mask mandate is legal or enforceable outside of government buildings or airplane/train/bus travel. I am fully vaccinated, but since I live in America yes I do think I can shop maskless anytime I want. It’s up to the store to withhold services from me for not following their rules. IME, this does not happen.

So I was right to be concerned about the situation, got it.

 

[aprilchem]

My fully-vaccinated flight attendant brother-in-law has been flying internationally pretty much throughout the pandemic for work. He was in India a few weeks ago for work, and now he's in isolation with a variant that doesn't care that he's vaccinated; he's drastically ill. No thanks, I'll keep wearing my mask for awhile longer.

Are you saying that your brother is vaccinated and is very ill with the Indian variant? I thought that in countries where that variant has spread (particularly Britain) only the unvaccinated were getting sick with that variant. If that's not the case, then that's really, really bad news.

My state dropped the mask requirement on Friday at midnight, and almost immediately nearly every business in our area dropped their mask mandates right away. It's frustrating to me, because I have two partially vaccinated children (they got their first doses on Thursday) and one child who is not eligible to be vaccinated until July 20th. This will really restrict their summertime activities - I can have them wear masks when we go places, but I'm in a pretty anti-vax county and I expect unvaccinated people to shed their masks pretty immediately, so the kids wearing their masks won't be enough protection.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

Many businesses in many states for the last 15 months have been not been allowed to have their own policies. How many state and local governments have said just follow whatever the CDC recommends? "Following the science" was the buzzword that Fauci, Cuomo, Newsom, Whitmer, Walz and Evers harped on for months and months until the "science" they were following was proven false, then they started and have continued to ignore the science.

I think you can understand why I said what I said as it relates to the Costco situation. If a business has a policy just go with it or choose not to shop there (even you said that) but don't walk in and say 'I'm following the science' like the person I quoted said some people will follow the science and disobey the policy. They are selectively pulling that out of their pocket to use when it gives them the best advantage.

People, in general, are using follow the science whenever it suits them. I never made any distinction which group because it's a collective action.

 

[goodeats]

So I was right to be concerned about the situation, got it.

What’s there to be concerned about? Mind your own business and protect yourself as you see fit. Personal responsibility is a wonderful thing.

 

[tippity]

As an essential healthcare worker, I travel a lot for my job. In the past month, I have visited CA, IL, CO and WA. In every state, there were vaccination sites that were taking walk-ins. At this point I do not feel obliged to wear a mask, since vaccines are readily available to anyone over the age of 12.

I will wear a mask when required, but I will not wear a mask to protect people who refuse the vaccine.

 

[EACarlson]

I think you can understand why I said what I said as it relates to the Costco situation. If a business has a policy just go with it or choose not to shop there (even you said that) but don't walk in and say 'I'm following the science' like the person I quoted said some people will follow the science and disobey the policy. They are selectively pulling that out of their pocket to use when it gives them the best advantage.

People, in general, are using follow the science whenever it suits them. I never made any distinction which group because it's a collective action.

I'm absolutely with you. I'm quite surprised that Costco of all places isn't using the tools in front of them to remedy the situation though. Costco would be well within their rights and might even draw a few Sam's Club converts like me if they actually enforced their rules and cancelled the memberships of those that did not follow their rules.

 

[mjkacmom]

If the government mandate you wear a yellow star because you’re vaccinated would you? I don’t believe the mask mandate is legal or enforceable outside of government buildings or airplane/train/bus travel. I am fully vaccinated, but since I live in America yes I do think I can shop maskless anytime I want. It’s up to the store to withhold services from me for not following their rules. IME, this does not happen.

It would absolutely happen here, and other customers might actually assist the store employees.