No More ADR's at conflicting times

[pilferk]

This is my take on the 180 vs. 90 day windows. While MOST people would have plans nailed down by 90 days, that also means that they are ALL online and on the phones making ADRs at the exact same time. The system would get bogged down and many would miss out and NO ONE is happy. As big as WDW and Disney are, I highly doubt their servers could handle 100,000 guests swarming their system at 6 am to make ADRs. Everyone has the opportunity to make ADRs at 180 days out if they so choose. Though you may not feel like making all those decisions at 180 days you can choose not to, or make plans and switch things around as plans change. Then you aren't left in the cold.

It's feasible to modify any system to handle volume.

The question is: Is the cost of doing so considered worthwhile (which means some sort of decent ROI) by the business who would need to front the costs.

In addition, the number of tables don't change. You would still have the same number of successes and failures (they might just take longer to get, if the system lags). That's the point in this discussions, really.

 

[pilferk]

Yes, I was speaking in terms of outcome - which obviously has a direct correlation to satisfaction, though.

Actually, REALLY, it doesn't. There's the exact same number of tables, either way. The same sheer NUMBER of people are going to get tables, no matter when the window opens.

So it's still about making the planners vs non-planners happy by artificially adjusting the window.

That's a vaild point, although it's a bit harsh on those who are not able to "do something" (due to work/family constraints, or whatever). And in full disclosure, I would actaully rather they go to 30 or 45 days - not 90.

No more harsh than telling those that can't call in precisely at 7 AM (or get to the computer at 6 AM) due to work or family constraints that THAT process is fair.

Fair means everyone has access. Fair ISN'T taking every single persons circumstances and trying to create a system that caters to them....

Again, you can't make EVERYONE happy...you can't design a system where EVERYONE is going to be able to access the system, when taking into account other "life factors" that Disney has no control over.

First, I (and many have echoed this sentiment in this thread and others) am simply opposed to the idea that you need to plan key aspects of the trip that far in advance. It just seems crazy to me - and I'm a planner, just not an obsessive uber-planner. It's not necessarily a matter of "how do i know i want to eat at LeCellier on that day?" I'm a pure carnivore, I can eat steak every day. It's more of a matter that I have now pretty much locked myself in to Epcot for that day.

I'm not sure why personal preference should enter into the discussion?

One group or the other is going to get a system they don't like, in that sense. I can't see any logical argument that puts either group ahead of the other.

Secondly (and this is where it ties in to the OP), I feel it lends itself to far too many abuses (at worst) and/or non-optimal practices (at best). I know it's not done by everyone, but I believe for too many "planners" that "planning" means going in at 180 (with +10, most likely) and making an ADR at Ohana for every night of their stay, same for Le Cellier and other popular restaurants - becasue Disney says thay CAN. Then when they get (much) closer, they finalize their plans and HOPEFULLY cancel the ADRs they don't plan to use. I'm exagerating a little (I hope), but you get the idea. Those are obviously in the "abuse" category. As for the non-optimal practices, those would be things like people going in at 180 and booking ADRs, even though they do not have a trip booked yet and it may only be 50% at best that they do end up booking the trip. Then when they ultimately decide they're not going (for whatever reason), maybe they cancel the ADRs, maybe they don't.

But that's a failing of the system, not the window, itself. And there's certainly an argument to make that it would be just as present in the 90 day (because there would be another group out there that says 90 days is too long to have to plan out where you want to eat AND you'd have a group who would go through an make multi ressies, first thing in the AM, because the system would be bogged down with requests and they want to ensure they eat at Le Cellier "at some point" during their vacation). I don't know if that WOULD happen (though I remember some talk about it even when the window was at 90 days for awhile...though it was less prevalent because there was no online system), but without solid data it's tough to argue one way or the other.

I agree the double bookings are an issue...but then, it looks like the online system has fixed that to some extent. It's much like the CRT ressie swapping that went on years ago: Disney finally felt enough effect (either in terms of revenue or guest satisfaction issues) to make a change to prevent it.

A lesser window, I believe, both lessens the want or need to do these things, plus also diminishes the ability to do them.

MAYBE that's true (I've no concrete data and can see a counter argument to the point), but there are other ways to address that "symptom", first, that have nothing to do with the window.

 

[pilferk]

But that's the problem for Disney. Far too many times, tables are not filled. Sure, all the tables are reserved, but many times they end up empty. The current system has created this weird dynmaic where the demand for ADRs is much greater than the actual demand for meals.

I suspect that's true...and is LARGELY what prompted the changes to the on-line system.

During the busier times of year....Disney fills those tables anyway. There's no shortage of walk ups to fill the "empties".

In late October and early November? Probably a little harder.

 

[pilferk]

I don't think for a minute that Disney made that decision based on guest preferences. I think that was entirely a function of what their IT infrastructure could handle - a shorter window means more people trying to query an already unstable system simultaneously, and given Disney's track record with their booking systems and web sites I don't think they are willing/able to do what would need to be done to meet the demand spikes a shorter window would create.

I definitely think that's part of it (probably a good part). And it's not just IT infrastructure. It's call center resources, too. You'd have to hire more agents for "prime time" (and really, only then) and use more lines.

But then, those resources would likely be unused for most of the rest of the day.

I don't know anything about Disney's system logistics, in this case. But I don't think it's too far a leap to think the 180 day system might "even out" resource utilization a bit more.

 

[lovethattink]

I was surprised yesterday! I got a resie for Le Cellier for 2 days away!!! I did not get a message to cancel my existing reservation for Biergarten though. The Biergarten resie was for 12:50 and the LeCellier was for 2:15pm. I went in and cancelled it after I scored Le Cellier, but I am not understanding how they determine which ones are conflicts and which are not.

 

[BuckeyeDad]

Add me to the choir.

We, too, are DVC members.

We, too, have no problems nailing down our schedule 6 months out...and if there's a day that's iffy (in terms of day off vs 1/2 day in a park) during our vacation...we make ADR's at one of the resorts, rather than in a specific park.

In short: I agree with you.

But you have to remember there are a lot of us, that cannot plan our vacations that far out, my job is not the type that I can say with certainty I want to be off July 16th in January. that being said I am going to be at AKL July 16th. I planned the trip last month, so I obviously missed the 180 day window. however I was able to score pre rope drop Crystal Palace, Chef Mickey (for a late dinner) Boma for breakfast, Tusker for Breakfast, and Biergarten for Dinner. Now I know those are not the premium ADRS but they worked for me and my girls.

 

[CarrieR]

Not sure this system has all of the wrinkles worked out yet. I had a 5:15 at Sci-Fi for Saturday and wanted to move it to more like 7. This morning, I found a 6:50 and grabbed it. I fully expected a prompt to cancel the earlier booking, but no such prompt existed.

I thought perhaps it was because I booked the later reservation on my phone, not integrated into the Disney site the way I normally do, but when I hopped on my laptop it was in my profile with all the rest of my reservation.



(And yes, I did cancel the earlier reservation. Although it took me a couple of tries to do so... sigh. I cannot believe how poorly the system works!)

 

[pilferk]

But you have to remember there are a lot of us, that cannot plan our vacations that far out, my job is not the type that I can say with certainty I want to be off July 16th in January. that being said I am going to be at AKL July 16th. I planned the trip last month, so I obviously missed the 180 day window. however I was able to score pre rope drop Crystal Palace, Chef Mickey (for a late dinner) Boma for breakfast, Tusker for Breakfast, and Biergarten for Dinner. Now I know those are not the premium ADRS but they worked for me and my girls.

Not to be harsh, but:

There are a lot of people who can't go to WDW at all, either because of financial concerns or professional concerns.

There are a lot of people who can't call for ADRs at 7 AM (or log on to the net at 6 AM) because of professional or familial commitments.

If Disney was to make decisions based on some segment of their customer base saying "I can't do that"....you'd have no system at all.

I realize some segment can't (because of "real life" factors) plan trips that far out. But I don't think that's sufficient justification for not allowing those who CAN to make use of the system when they want to. The fact is...you have ACCESS to the 180 day window, right? If you called, Disney would make an ADR for you.

The fact your LIFE won't allow you to do so isn't something Disney needs to account for.

 

[traylorc]

Not sure this system has all of the wrinkles worked out yet. I had a 5:15 at Sci-Fi for Saturday and wanted to move it to more like 7. This morning, I found a 6:50 and grabbed it. I fully expected a prompt to cancel the earlier booking, but no such prompt existed.

I thought perhaps it was because I booked the later reservation on my phone, not integrated into the Disney site the way I normally do, but when I hopped on my laptop it was in my profile with all the rest of my reservation.



(And yes, I did cancel the earlier reservation. Although it took me a couple of tries to do so... sigh. I cannot believe how poorly the system works!)

Pure speculation on my part...but I wonder if the new system is designed to handle conflicting ADRs that are made after the upgrade was implemented?

So if you made your 5:15 reservation at Sci Fi after the software update occurred, and then later on attempted to book a 6:50 ADR perhaps the system would have forced you to cancel the earlier reservation.

However, let's assume you made your original 5:15 reservation prior to the software update. The system may not require you to cancel your old reservation when booking the new 6:50 ADR.

Again....this is simply a guess and I acknowledge I may be wrong.

 

[pilferk]

Not sure this system has all of the wrinkles worked out yet. I had a 5:15 at Sci-Fi for Saturday and wanted to move it to more like 7. This morning, I found a 6:50 and grabbed it. I fully expected a prompt to cancel the earlier booking, but no such prompt existed.

I thought perhaps it was because I booked the later reservation on my phone, not integrated into the Disney site the way I normally do, but when I hopped on my laptop it was in my profile with all the rest of my reservation.



(And yes, I did cancel the earlier reservation. Although it took me a couple of tries to do so... sigh. I cannot believe how poorly the system works!)

Phone ressies may (or may not) have a pop up alerting the CSM of conflict. But even the pop up you see on-line says you can call to make overlapping ressies by phone. So that probably IS a factor.

Your ADR's are tied to your phone number, I think, and we've had both phone and on-line ADR's show up under "my reservations" in the past. I think that's the way it's supposed to work.

 

[sjs314]

Pure speculation on my part...but I wonder if the new system is designed to handle conflicting ADRs that are made after the upgrade was implemented.

So if you made your 5:15 reservation at Sci Fi after the software update occurred, and then later on attempted to book a 6:50 ADR perhaps the system would have forced you to cancel the earlier reservation.

However, let's assume you made your original 5:15 reservation prior to the software update. The system may not require you to cancel your old reservation when booking the new 6:50 ADR.

Again....this is simply a guess and I acknowledge I may be wrong.

You very well may have something to your theory, I changed 3 ADRs earlier today, two which I had made under the updated system told me I had to cancel the existing one to book the new one. The other which I made back on April 22 did not ask me to cancel , no pop up message at all which at the time I thought odd since it was for Le Cellier. I had to end up going into my reservations to cancel my previous Le Cellier ADR.

 

[BuckeyeDad]

Not to be harsh, but:

There are a lot of people who can't go to WDW at all, either because of financial concerns or professional concerns.

There are a lot of people who can't call for ADRs at 7 AM (or log on to the net at 6 AM) because of professional or familial commitments.

If Disney was to make decisions based on some segment of their customer base saying "I can't do that"....you'd have no system at all.

I realize some segment can't (because of "real life" factors) plan trips that far out. But I don't think that's sufficient justification for not allowing those who CAN to make use of the system when they want to. The fact is...you have ACCESS to the 180 day window, right? If you called, Disney would make an ADR for you.

The fact your LIFE won't allow you to do so isn't something Disney needs to account for.

That knife cuts both ways, there are people that plan 360 days in advance should they have access to the ADR's when they are ready? and to your point, you also have access to make adr's at 90 days right? why do you want them at 180? Is it just so you have an advantage over those that schedule their vacations later? But that is besides the point. what I was really trying to get to, I planned my vacation, and was able to get 80% of the ADR's I wanted for my kids without getting up at 7am on the 180+10 window. It may not be my normal dining time, but who cares im on vacation, so its not going to break my heart if they go back to the 180.

 

[quandrea]

http://www.wdwmagic.com/Resorts/Wal...tiple-reservations-for-the-same-timeframe.htm

I have a few double bookings. Will some of my reservations be cancelled due to the double bookings. Please advise and I will clean up my ADRs.

 

[mill4023]

I have a few double bookings. Will some of my reservations be cancelled due to the double bookings. Please advise and I will clean up my ADRs.

I don't think anyone knows for sure.

 

[Huck Sawyer]

I have a few double bookings. Will some of my reservations be cancelled due to the double bookings. Please advise and I will clean up my ADRs.

Why not clean them up anyways. The OP was about double booking and how the system now is trying to prevent that. Why even double book in the first place.

 

[smidgy]

I'm glad that they are making easy for everyone else to get reservations, online or walk-ins. I don't believe in Karma, so I won't go there

but I do believe i casting your bread across the waters..

I'm sure there is a lot of that. But I think there are also a lot of people who double book while they are working out their schedule, then cancel the ones they won't be using.
I know I did a lot of that before we had our plans nailed down. But I don't feel guilty about booking a bunch of stuff, then canceling a month before the trip. Someone still got the ADR's I canceled. It was just the person looking a month ahead of time instead of 2 months ahead.

but, see, that isn't fair to those of us who plan. those of us who mark out a schedule, with the emh hours, parade hours, fireworks,etc.; try to fit everything in. the "new" opening 1 month ahead of time.. well that no longer helps someone who already planned a whole bunch of other stuff, that can't be changed. you know.. the "domino" effect.. if you change this, then that changes that...

I am VERY!!! happy with the new rule. and the proof of the success is all the people being able to book reservations they previously weren't able to!!!

 

[smidgy]

And I'll say it a million times more... you're in the minority.

Most people do plan WDW vacations 9-12 months in advance. Most people only get 1-2 weeks of vacation per year, and know whether or not WDW will be among the finalists.

There are only 74 table service restaurants which take reservations. With an average occupancy of 150 persons per seating, that's 11,100. WDW receives 100,000+ guests on almost any given day. It's inevitable that people will not get the dining times or locations that they want. As for double-booking, it's not as serious an issue as people make it out to be. If Disney were truly concerned, they would require CCs on all reservations -- hopefully they'll go that route in the future. In the meantime, the system works just fine for anyone who plans a week-long vacation in advance. Most people do. For those who do not, or choose not to, that's why there's counter service. Disney provides something for everyone.

the problem for us Disney planners is this: the full Park schedules are not out yet.. my "conspiracy theory" is: disney is FORCING us to buy the hopper pass. how can we make our adrs or plan anything until we know the parade and fireworks schedules, , EMH, etc.?

It's pretty much a fallacy that if you do not book all your restaurant reservations 180 days out you will have to eat counter service. There is usually somewhere to eat. It just will not be one of the ultrapopular places and you might have to leave a park.

which goes along with the PP, that those who choose not to plan there is counter service. yeah, maybe we don't want to take disney transportation to OKW, to eat at Olivias.

we had friends who were going with a "grand gathering" they kept insisting to us that all their food was "included:, so they didn't need to make reservations. they stayed at POr and ended up eating at the resort most of the time, either at Boatwrights or the food court. they had tons of credits left over, but they were blissfully ignorant. they didn't realize that they PAID for the DDP. and wasted tons of credits. (Itried to warn them ahead of time.. after the trip.. I just left them be happy)they didn't realize that they could have eaten in france, Uk, mexico, Ohanas, Bomas, etc etc.

I bring up this story because Nala is right, there is always "somewhere" to eat . but I might not want to purchase the DDP if I have to eat at restaurans I don't care for. IN THAT case, if I can only get ADRS for a couple places, I might choose to pay OOP for them, and save money.. why would I want to spend $40 per day to eat the same food in China I can get down the street from my house at the New Hunan, and hubby and I can split a CS meal... we don't eat that much in one day, and certainly don't EACH need a dessert and huge drink.at each meal.
we only decide to purchase the DDP (or get it"free" thereby forgoing any otherroom discounts) IF we can eat at the places we want to eat. otherwise, it is NOT worth it, to us.
yes, there is usually "somewhere" to eat. not worth the time to travel to a resort (dont' bother with Shutters, at CBR, yuck)
to many people , the DDP is only worth the money if you eat where you choose to eat.
which is why this new rule is great. people will know ahead of time if they want the DDP or not,

 

[smidgy]

It's not the uber-planners who would be upset, it's those that aren't flexible. An uber-planner always has a back-up plan..

where is the tag fairy?

 

[pilferk]

That knife cuts both ways, there are people that plan 360 days in advance should they have access to the ADR's when they are ready? and to your point, you also have access to make adr's at 90 days right? why do you want them at 180? Is it just so you have an advantage over those that schedule their vacations later? But that is besides the point. what I was really trying to get to, I planned my vacation, and was able to get 80% of the ADR's I wanted for my kids without getting up at 7am on the 180+10 window. It may not be my normal dining time, but who cares im on vacation, so its not going to break my heart if they go back to the 180.

Actually, the above makes my point rather than refutes it. The availability of the system shouldn't take any small customer segment into account.

I would guess (though I don't have data to support it....I know Disney does) that they choose the 180 day window for a variety of reasons. At least some of them probably have to do with useage and resort booking volume. Also, their internal planning seems to jive with that time frame (park hours are right around 6 months out, party dates are usually announced right AROUND that point...certainly we can quibble about the specific availability in specific cases). In other words, they think that the LARGEST segment of their customers benefit from the window they've set AND it fits their business goals. For further evidence in that direction...they tried the 90 day window and (relatively) quickly changed back to 180 days.

See, the issue is that many people are looking at this personally. I get why that is, but It's NOT personal. What "I" want and what "you" want is irrelevant, really. I can (and have) exist within whatever system they provide for me and I'm perfectly fine doing it. Not so very long ago, when the window was 90 days, we STILL planned 6 months+ out. And we still called at 7 AM on the first day we were able (the 90 day mark).

It's (like almost anything at WDW, actually) a system. The system is designed to weight business goals and overall customer goals and work accordingly. It's not designed to ensure that EVERY customers "real life" factors can't prevent them from maximizing the systems useage. No system can do that. DISNEY isn't providing the 180 dayers with an advantage. The LIVES of the 90 dayers is providing them with a disadvantage. I don't see any reason why Disney should have an onus to balance that out. I don't see any system that could do that, and still work for the business, either.

To be honest...I would have no issue with Disney instituting a 360 day window, so long as it allowed equal access. I suspect, given what we know about their system, they wouldn't implement one because their OTHER systems don't, usually, provide that kind of leeway. Even the DVC system only allows bookings 11 months out. But just by way of "for instance"....I'd either plan further in advance or live with the risks of planning closer to my departure date. I wouldn't ask (or expect) the system to change FOR ME. Now, I would expect that if Disney found that a large segment of their customers weren't using that window...they'd change it.

And, again, the 180 day window is an inclusive window. It tells customers they CAN do something (all of them). The 90 day window is much more EXCLUSIVE, telling a good sized customer segment they CAN'T do something. That's the difference. If there was little booking volume between the 180 and 90 day mark....Disney would probably change the window (and rightfully so). But we KNOW that's not the case. There is obviously ample demand (as evidenced by ADRsgetting filled up)...and since Disney's ultimate goal is to fill tables....I'm not sure what any change would accomplish. Given the evidence we DO have....it's tough to argue that the "90 dayers" are a sizeable enough market segment for Disney to make changes for.

Just for way of full disclosure, I've always said that, for my money, the "perfect storm" would be 120 day window for most customers. Park hours are definitely out. Party dates are definitely out. I suspect MOST people have planned their trip at 4 months-ish. It caters to the planners AND the non-planners, to a large extent. Obviously that idea doesn't rely on any real DATA, but just from a logic standpoint, it seems to fit. However I have more than a sneaking suspicion that THAT window, for whatever reason, doesn't meet Disney's business goals. Maybe it requires too much resource utilization from the IT and call center areas, maybe it doesn't allow them enough time for strategic planning...I don't know.

 

[pilferk]

Just as an experiment, I thought I'd check available ADR's for Oct 1 at 6 PM, in Epcot.

I know...Oct 1st isn't busy season. I'm also unsure if there is free dining going on (maybe only with a PIN?). And I'm sure during busy season/free dining it's a completely different story (though I looked for August 6th...maybe got lucky on the landing date...and only see 5 places on Disney property listed as unavailable). I'm sure the 180 day window is much more important to use during those times.

But, having said that, the ONLY 2 restaurants that were UNAVAILABLE in Epcot between 4 PM and 8 PM were Le Cellier and Teppan Edo.

Only Coral Reef and Via Napoli offered times an hour or more past my requested 6 PM (7:30 for Coral Reef, 7 PM for Via Napoli). Every other sit down at Epcot was within 40 minutes of my requested time (before or after).

Granted, it's a snapshot. But it's a snapshot on a Saturday night, in Epcot, during Food and Wine.

Given that, I would have to agree with a previous poster: There's usually SOMEPLACE to eat. Maybe not if you wait til you walk up...but assuming you're willing/able to make ADR's at least somewhat in advance.