!!! PLEASE READ!!! Important News Regarding Swaps & Shares!!!

[phorsenuf]

Nevermind. You just don't get it.

 

[scootch]

Shame, not only did I save money, I met a person who I shared with at the park and it has become a very lasting friendship... that would never had been possible had I not participated in a photopass share in 2008.

 

[LisaNJ25]

I do have a question about the stroller swaps. Some of you claim that the money goes towards "maintenance" of the stroller. What maintenance? I have strollers for years and never had to pay any kind of money to maintain them. Do they take them to Jiffy Lube? Seriously- what are they "maintaining" with the money?

Seats, seat covers, tires, flats etcs. You would be surprised to see how people treat something that they are only using for a few days.

 

[DisneyDreams4P&B]

So essentially she has a stroller rental business that she is promoting on the DIS which is a clear violating of the DIS guidelines. Seems pretty cut and dry to me as to why they are being discontinued.

I am not sure how you get that. It costs money to replace those items, and the money she has gotten back after her initial investment has gone towards replacing and upkeep (kind of like how you still pay for up keep on a car, even once it is paid for). Even if she was providing a service, I can assure you that she is not getting rich off the deal. Maybe it affords someone a way to save for a trip. Why would that bother someone? It is up to the DIS, whether or not they want the paid swaps to continue, and they have said no, knowing that I will abide. What I don't understand are some of the comments that are particularily "snarky" for those who either run or participate in them. If your not participating in one, why do you care one way or the other?

The Mod even said that the rules pertaining to the swaps had become lax by even their standards. While not excusing it, because there have been times that I have broken a rule or 2 without realizing it was a rule (because I don't walk around with a copy of the DIS board rules next to me when I post). It seems many people are assuming that swap organizers are doing this out of some sense of greed and money making scheme and I don't think that is true. There didn't seem to be an uproar over it until it was said that it was aganst the rules.

It is so far fetched of an idea that they might enjoy doing it and helping people find an easier way to have a good qualitity stroller that does not cost $35 a day? I know I could think of many ways to spend that money while in Disney. When I participated in the swap it was an easy/cost efficent way to get strollers for the 5 children we have on our Grand Gathering, not a means to break rules or cause an affront on the DIS Boards.

I am all for healthy debate, but some are getting negative or nasty and I am not sure exactly why, or where some great offense was committed.

 

[JeMarie6]

This is just speculation and what comes to mind but perhaps the shares/swaps are a concern because WDW provides all the stuff the swappers are swapping? !

Sorry, I respectfully don't buy in to this argument at all. Disney sells T-shirts, even has a store to design your own, but they don't keep us from bringing our own.

Anyway, just want to say thank you to the moderators for allowing the swaps already set up to continue. We were going to do a rolling refund, but will now continue the swap free to new members. We may lose a swapper or two who were anticipating a refund, but otherwise I don't think this change will affect us much at all.

 

[mookie]

Does it say IN WRITING that you can walk down main street carrying a cup of coffee?
It doesn't?
Oh, then I guess that's not allowed?

Aside from the fact that your comment makes no sense at all, you are also getting completely off topic. The DIS is not obligated to allow discussion of something just because it's something that Disney says is allowed. And they are certainly not obligated to ban discussion of something that Disney has no policy on whatsoever.

None of this discussion is even remotely related to Disney policy. It's simply a discussion about what kind of discussion threads the DIS is going to allow.

I would think that WDW has no right to control stroller or fridge swaps, if they are not creating a problem on Disney grounds. (storage when not in use, CM's having to look for them for the next person, etc.) After all, even if you don't participate in a swap, WDW still allows you to bring in your own stroller vs. renting one...I don't think they really care HOW you got the stroller....

Now the Photoopass is another story. While it's a great deal, and one that I once considered myself, it doesn't dispute the fact that it is cheating the system. I would think THAT has got to be in writing somewhere, and if it's not, I would venture to bet that WDW is catching on to these types of things, and will eventually put some sort of "clause" on their Photopasses (ie. "one per family.")

 

[ZPT1022]

There are some crazy conversations going on...Even with the extreme upset of a lot of Disers, I feel it is unfortunate that it appears whoever is in charge has not even considered creating a seperate spot for only swaps. I hope they aren't disappointed if, and ,or when their number of visits to their website go down cause swappers don't visit their boards nearly as much anymore whether it be for swap related topics, disney info, or just the camaraderie that builds on message boards.

It's not that hard to set up a yahoo group or even a yuku board. Call it "Disney Swaps" or "Disney Swappers". If you (general you, not specific you) have half a brain in your head you can have it set up in less than 10 minutes. Would one of you (again, general you, not specific you) please just take a few minutes and do it and the rest of you go search for it. You can continue your swaps and complain about how unfair it is that you're not allowed to do that on the Dis anymore. Those of us who have always thought the swaps were a bit nuts can just go about our regular lives, you can all keep swapping. Win-Win

 

[speedyf]

Nevermind. You just don't get it.

I understand your point. I just feel that the reason given for stopping these swaps is unfair. The rules of this board states no monetary transactions. Point rentals are monetary transactions. Sure...point rentals can go on any other place...just like swaps can go on any other place...Yahoo Groups...other boards...eBay...etc.

If you have a rule for all the boards and decide to enforce it for one group, why not enforce it for the entire board?

I don't think it's really about the monetary thing...I think it's more about the hassle of the swaps and probably some of the negative feedback from the swaps as well. Also...I'm sure there is some kind of legal grey area when it comes to the Photopass copyright stuff, but I don't see where sharing a stroller or fridge goes against any rules.

Speed

 

[mill4023]

My original post.

Your chopped version of my post:
Originally Posted by irishbosoxfan
No joking.
And your analogy doesn't work--If something goes wrong with the car the company is responsible--if something goes wrong with the stroller (fridge,photopass,whatever) people complain to the DIS.

Whatever the DISs reason is for stopping the swaps everyone must be accepting of it.

And judging by most of the swappers responses,also the worst.



No the analogy doesn't work.

And like AKA said the swaps are fine but not on the DIS.

DVC and all that it entails is a Disney sanctioned business--swapping a stroller/fridge on a message board is not.







A voice of reason!!

Just so we're clear, I didn't "chop" your post to be sneaky, although I'm not sure what the point would be of leaving out the one line. I simply included the portions I was responding to.

As far as the analogy, here's some help from dictionary.com:
Analogy - a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based

 

[DVCBELLE]

The difference between renting DVC points and a stroller/fridge swap is we don't need to involve Disney. They don't have to schlep DVC points back and forth to rooms. They don't need to search through bell services and be reamed out if points go missing. They don't take up space in the storage area.

Besides, you are comparing apples to oranges.

I own DVC but don't have it in my signature. I'm sure I will be forgiven about that.

You don't involve Disney? Not true at all. You do involve Disney - you call and make the reservation on the renter's behalf. Then Disney has to treat the reservation as a guest and not DVC member. Making sure they charge them for benefits given to DVC members on a stay vs. when they rent the points (free internet and valet) - this takes some extra manpower or more likely just gets overlooked. or causes a hassle for members when they are charged and have to go get the charges taken off their bills.

The bigger issue is that the DIS is saying the policy is b/c they don't want money changing hands among DIS members. This is what happens on the DVC board.

Its like when you have kids - you should be consistent in your rules and in this case it should be for:
Photopass
Stroller/Fridge Swaps
DVC Rental
Firework cruises
etc.

Something tells me the money the DIS generates over the fact that they have a reputable DVC rental board is the real reason they are willing to overlook the rule there.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Seats, seat covers, tires, flats etcs. You would be surprised to see how people treat something that they are only using for a few days.

I am sorry but some of these swaps go on for 50+ people. At $10 a pop that is $500 right there. Let's say the stroller cost the organizer $300. Now you have $200 left over for maintenance? Sorry but I don't care what you are maintaining it doesn't cost that kind of money. I have the same double stroller that went on 8 trips just to WDW alone. It has traveled many other places and has gotten tons of use. The only thing that has broken is the clip to hold it closed. That costs hardly anything to get a new one. Oh- and I don't have an expensive stroller. It was only about $125 brand new.

I am not flaming you but if anyone thinks that the stroller swap organizers aren't making money on this deal you are kidding yourself.

 

[tpettie]

I am so saddened to see the latest RESTRICTION on the DIS. Although I understand the explanation, I must respectfully disagree with the policy.

The DIS is a community of people who share their enthusiasm for Disney. It works because most people here take pride in helping others through their experience and personal advice. The Budget Board has become a place I visit daily for ways to save money and opportunities to help my fellow DISers.

I cannot think of a better way for a group of people to come together to save a few dollars (and the hassle of transporting a large stroller) than a stroller swap.

As long as the DIS is perfectly clear that they are not responsible for any of these swaps, I see no reason to discontinue all of them. If swap participants are willing to take part at their own risk, why prohibit the swaps? It is clear to me that swap leaders are NOT making money on these swaps. Stroller swaps, in particular, could not continue long term if a small DONATION is prohibited. In the case of the Royal Carriage Swap, this DONATION is used to maintain the strollers and nothing else. 100's of DISers have participated in this swap alone. I am disheartened that the DISboards has shut the swap down. There is no way it can continue without the DONATIONS of participants.

I hope that you will reconsider your decision given the popularity of swaps with DISers. Perhaps a separate Swap Board would be appropriate with strict guidelines about donations for long term swaps.

Well said!! I think a Sepreate Swap Board with clear outline or risks and and guidlines is a great idea.

 

[ZPT1022]

I would think that WDW has no right to control stroller or fridge swaps, if they are not creating a problem on Disney grounds. (storage when not in use, CM's having to look for them for the next person, etc.) After all, even if you don't participate in a swap, WDW still allows you to bring in your own stroller vs. renting one...I don't think they really care HOW you got the stroller....

Now the Photoopass is another story. While it's a great deal, and one that I once considered myself, it doesn't dispute the fact that it is cheating the system. I would think THAT has got to be in writing somewhere, and if it's not, I would venture to bet that WDW is catching on to these types of things, and will eventually put some sort of "clause" on their Photopasses (ie. "one per family.")

I've been betting on one of two things happening for a while now- either the DIS does away with the swaps and shares entirely, or WDW tries their best to discourage it by instituting large luggage handling/storage fees. Which of course, would stink for people who are just legitimately looking to say, store their baggage and visit a park before their late night flight.

 

[bop28]

I think I can take a good stab at it based on what I know and have read here:

1) As stated, the DIS (with narrowly controlled exceptions like DVC rentals) has always prohibited the commercial use of the DIS by its members. You can't sell stuff or advertise for personal benefit. While "swaps" where money changes hands aren't quite money making ventures, they're similar to things that have been shut down here in the past like people selling copies of WL lobby music for just a few dollars to cover the cost of the CD and mailing.

2) Any activity on such boards will be only tolerated until the "hassle" factor for moderators and the site owner reaches a certain threshold. Once that point is crossed, the tendency is for the mods to say "enough". Legalities and ethical questions about the now banished "swaps" aside, it was pretty clear that more and more people (even though a minority) were getting burned and losing money. Even though the DIS can post it up front that they are not responsible for member-to-member transactions made via the site, that won't stop people that feel they've been ripped-off from PMing the mods to seek information in an effort to try and track down their lost money or CD. It takes time and energy to deal with those situations. I also doubt that that mods and webmasters like knowing that more and more people were using the DIS as a tool for ripping people off. I think a threshold was crossed on several fronts, and the decision was made to "stop the hassle".

I also feel safe in saying that if the DVC rental board started to go south in terms of rip-offs that its activities might be halted too... I don't think it's immune from such triggers.

Lastly, I doubt that it had anything to do with the "bandwidth" that such swap threads were taking up. For the DIS, I sure they were a drop in the bucket.

Thank you.

 

[mill4023]

Nevermind. You just don't get it.

You're absolutely right. I don't get it.
You just implied in your post that the only topics that can be discussed on the DIS are things that Disney specifically says, IN WRITING, area allowed.

I don't get it at all.

 

[Disney 4 Me]

I am sorry but some of these swaps go on for 50+ people. At $10 a pop that is $500 right there. Let's say the stroller cost the organizer $300. Now you have $200 left over for maintenance? Sorry but I don't care what you are maintaining it doesn't cost that kind of money. I have the same double stroller that went on 8 trips just to WDW alone. It has traveled many other places and has gotten tons of use. The only thing that has broken is the clip to hold it closed. That costs hardly anything to get a new one. Oh- and I don't have an expensive stroller. It was only about $125 brand new.

I am not flaming you but if anyone thinks that the stroller swap organizers aren't making money on this deal you are kidding yourself.

I agree about it being a lot of money for maintenance. I have a double stroller as well that went on every Disney trip with me since 2003. That includes gate checking it each time. The wheels are definitely worn but that's about it. Oh, and a clip that holds the bars closed broke. And that was because I got mad and threw it out of our van. Oops. I just don't use the bars. I does sound like someone is making money somewhere. And I use the stroller at home, too.

 

[JLKennedy]

It's not that hard to set up a yahoo group or even a yuku board. Call it "Disney Swaps" or "Disney Swappers". If you (general you, not specific you) have half a brain in your head you can have it set up in less than 10 minutes. Would one of you (again, general you, not specific you) please just take a few minutes and do it and the rest of you go search for it. You can continue your swaps and complain about how unfair it is that you're not allowed to do that on the Dis anymore. Those of us who have always thought the swaps were a bit nuts can just go about our regular lives, you can all keep swapping. Win-Win

They already exist on yahoo, search Walt Disney World Swaps or something alon those lines!

 

[speedyf]

I've been betting on one of two things happening for a while now- either the DIS does away with the swaps and shares entirely, or WDW tries their best to discourage it by instituting large luggage handling/storage fees. Which of course, would stink for people who are just legitimately looking to say, store their baggage and visit a park before their late night flight.

I thought that WDW was going to implement some fee based on packages. So...your luggage would be ok...but, if you had a package shipped to the resort (like water from Staples/Office Depot, etc), they would charge you some type of small fee (I thought it was supposed to be $5) to store it until you arrived.

I can see this happening since the airlines started charging fees for baggage. I think more people are trying to FedEx/UPS stuff ahead to save the $15 per bag fee at the airport.

Speed

 

[JoanneNC]

Oh man and I was just about to start a Refillable mug swap..

Come on - people are acting like this is the end of the world or their entire vacation is ruined. Disboards has the right to set rules and even decide when they want to enforce them or turn a blind eye - if you don't like it - go somewhere else. In the end - this decision is to protect everyone and because of how bad the economy is, makes this even better timing to clamp down. Crime is up, fraud is up and this just eliminates one more avenue to be scammed. yes I realize that for every 1 scammer - 20 honest swaps go off.
Swaps are mini-businesses or at least the potential if done right to be a money making business.

 

[mill4023]

I've been betting on one of two things happening for a while now- either the DIS does away with the swaps and shares entirely, or WDW tries their best to discourage it by instituting large luggage handling/storage fees. Which of course, would stink for people who are just legitimately looking to say, store their baggage and visit a park before their late night flight.

I would think that the percentage of stored items that are being stored for swaps would be about 0.0000001% and have basically zero impact. I mean really, how many people are actually participating in these things compared to the number of people who stay at Disney hotels every night.

Is Disney really storing refrigerators for people? I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped doing that, since it's a bit different from strollers.