!!! PLEASE READ!!! Important News Regarding Swaps & Shares!!!

[phorsenuf]

All I know is that the reason given for stopping the swaps is money changing hands based on a transaction from a post on these boards. If you can refute the fact that money transactions are not happening on the DVC rental boards based on a post on these boards, then I am wrong.

If the rules are that no money changes hands for swaps....then, why does the DVC Points Rental board get a pass on this rule? Why not just say "We are stopping swaps because we want to."

Speed

Because it is written by Disney it is allowed. Show me IN WRITING by Disney that any of these swaps are allowed.

 

[delmar411]

Sorry if I confused anyone...my post was not regarding checking in a stroller...for us, now, it would be all of the extra baggage fees. I do realize a stroller gate-check is still considered a "perk" for many airlines, however, the extra we would pay in luggage for all of us, coupled with the increased price in airfare is what made our decision to drive.

OT but have you checked fares out of Indy. We always seem to have great fares for some reason. And as mentioned SW gives you 2 free checked bags.

Flying right now is about double what driving would cost. But I've done the drive before and I'd rather fly! LOL

 

[disneymom3]

mad for the mouse--I am not certain I can say this here so please delete if inappropriate.

I understand the hassle of traveling with a stroller-though I have to say that when flying when my boys were little there is no way I woudl have dealt with an airport without my stroller and gate check is a gift to parents everywhere! However, when we drove to WDW and had two young ones in a double stroller, no way did our stroller fit in the van with all the suitcases etc.

It also makes sense to me that buying a stroller for hte week and then disposing of it is not a responsible use of our resources and some may not be able to travel offsite to donate items in the local area.

However, our solution to this issue several times was to rent from A Baby's Best Friend. They are a wonderful company who deliver right to your hotel. They have a great relationship with all of the resorts. They bring you a VERY clean stroller with many styles to choose from and pick it up when you leave. They are very helpful and I can't think how much harder traveling would have been without their service. Yes, it is going to cost more than $10, but I am having a hard time with the idea that and extra $100 will prevent a trip that costs at least $2K to begin with from taking place.

Anyway, in case others don't know about them, I wanted to spread the word. As I said, if I am out of line, it's not on purpose adn I understand if you have to delete.

 

[speedyf]

1. The original stroller swap (several years ago) was a donated stroller. Over time, swappers mentioned that the stroller needed wipes, or a rain cover or whatever. Someone usually stepped up and offered to bring that item to WDW when they were there and just leave it with the stroller. No money changed hands and no one was required to add anything to the swap in order to participate. I don't see how this would be a "wink and a nod" donation to the swap organizer, who may have already had their trip to WDW and will never get to use the donated item. Maybe I'm missing something here that you're seeing?

AKA...I think the original poster meant that someone would post a "free swap" with a "wink and a nod" somehow for people to contact them to arrange payment.

I would guess a swap could start out as being free and with the exchange of e-mail addresses or other contact info, end up being a swap that the participants "donated" money to the original owner.

I'm guessing that anyone found doing this could be banned from the site for breaking the rules at that point.

Speed

 

[JLKennedy]

The strollers break down over time. the swap i am organizing I had to replace the seat, the front wheel, and the front axle. This costs money as does the shipping. Also for accessories which get lost such as a rain cover, extended shade covering, etc.

Yeah, but at the cost of replacing parts on a "discontinued" model, you'll fair much better buying a new one....someone, somewhere is making money on these swaps.

 

[Geoff_M]

What caused the banning of swaps? Anyone know the actual answer?

I think I can take a good stab at it based on what I know and have read here:

1) As stated, the DIS (with narrowly controlled exceptions like DVC rentals) has always prohibited the commercial use of the DIS by its members. You can't sell stuff or advertise for personal benefit. While "swaps" where money changes hands aren't quite money making ventures, they're similar to things that have been shut down here in the past like people selling copies of WL lobby music for just a few dollars to cover the cost of the CD and mailing.

2) Any activity on such boards will be only tolerated until the "hassle" factor for moderators and the site owner reaches a certain threshold. Once that point is crossed, the tendency is for the mods to say "enough". Legalities and ethical questions about the now banished "swaps" aside, it was pretty clear that more and more people (even though a minority) were getting burned and losing money. Even though the DIS can post it up front that they are not responsible for member-to-member transactions made via the site, that won't stop people that feel they've been ripped-off from PMing the mods to seek information in an effort to try and track down their lost money or CD. It takes time and energy to deal with those situations. I also doubt that that mods and webmasters like knowing that more and more people were using the DIS as a tool for ripping people off. I think a threshold was crossed on several fronts, and the decision was made to "stop the hassle".

I also feel safe in saying that if the DVC rental board started to go south in terms of rip-offs that its activities might be halted too... I don't think it's immune from such triggers.

Lastly, I doubt that it had anything to do with the "bandwidth" that such swap threads were taking up. For the DIS, I sure they were a drop in the bucket.

 

[mookie]

OT but have you checked fares out of Indy. We always seem to have great fares for some reason. And as mentioned SW gives you 2 free checked bags.

Flying right now is about double what driving would cost. But I've done the drive before and I'd rather fly! LOL

Don't I know it...our problem is we are in the FAR northwest burbs, so by the time we get to Indy, we might as well drive the rest of the way! Actually MKE or even Rockford would work better. MDW has great prices (hence, the SW fare) but again, it takes us about 1 1/2 hours to get there. ORD is the closest, but most expensive.


For us, it just cam down to overall price of the trip. Regardless, even if we found a decent airfare for 160.00 pp round trip as previously mentioned, we now have 2 extra tickets to buy for. That's 800 bucks. Driving will cost us about 1/2 that. DH isn't happy about driving, but I'm considering it a "budget adventure."

 

[Octoberbabiesrus]

Wow. I find this upsetting.

 

[mill4023]

The difference between renting DVC points and a stroller/fridge swap is we don't need to involve Disney. They don't have to schlep DVC points back and forth to rooms. They don't need to search through bell services and be reamed out if points go missing. They don't take up space in the storage area.

Besides, you are comparing apples to oranges.

I own DVC but don't have it in my signature. I'm sure I will be forgiven about that.

If the DIS was banning all threads about stroller/fridge swaps because they involve Disney storing items, your comments might be relevant.

But since free swaps are still fine and they are banning the other threads because they involve money being exchanged between DIS'ers, your comments are totally irrelevant.

 

[tracipierce]

The worst part about these swaps ending is that the Disboards are losing something that helped to build community on their site. Swaps and Photoshares brought us closer togethor. It added to the excitement . Once I invested some money and time into finding a group to which I belonged, the site seemed friendlier. Freindships were formed. Magic was made.

Well said

Us travelling from the Uk makes it even more difficult to transport things over to WDW with us so the swaps were a fantastic help.
I did buy a cheap stroller from Walmart on our last trip and left it behind for someone from the Dis free of charge with pleasure.
However, buying a fridge would be a different matter, it would not be practical at all for me to do. I do think its about time Disney put them in all of their hotel rooms not just the mods and deluxes.

I have met some wonderful people from the US through participating in the swaps and it will be really sad that I will miss out on this in the future.

 

[speedyf]

Because it is written by Disney it is allowed. Show me IN WRITING by Disney that any of these swaps are allowed.

Show me IN WRITING by Disney that any of these swaps are not allowed. You may have a point on the copyright of the Photopass share...but, I don't recall any rules about fridges or strollers. What rule are the swappers breaking?

I understand that renting points is allowed by Disney. This board has a RULE that states that no money transactions are allowed on this board. This is the reason that TheDIS is giving for shutting down these swaps. If sending someone $15 for stroller rental breaks this rule (of this board, not Disney), then why can I go hook up with someone on the DVC Rental board and send them $2000 for a rental without breaking this rule (of this board).

Speed

 

[aka-mad4themouse]

AKA...I think the original poster meant that someone would post a "free swap" with a "wink and a nod" somehow for people to contact them to arrange payment.

I would guess a swap could start out as being free and with the exchange of e-mail addresses or other contact info, end up being a swap that the participants "donated" money to the original owner.

I'm guessing that anyone found doing this could be banned from the site for breaking the rules at that point.

Speed

I suppose that someone might try that. But then there's always someone who will tattle on the offender for offering up a "free" swap with monetary conditions.

Or maybe, just maybe, one of those "members" who contacts them could be a moderator or webmaster. You never know...

 

[Disneyluvr]

Because it is written by Disney it is allowed. Show me IN WRITING by Disney that any of these swaps are allowed.

Show me in writing where Disney says these swaps are NOT allowed. I don't think the problem is whether or not they are allowed, the whole point is the exchange of money between 2 Disers! If the DVC exchanges money (or it's equivelent) than that is basicly the same type of transaction. Disney has it written in the contract that it is allowed, that doesn't mean the Disboards has to allow it, but they do. Disney does not prohibit the swapping of strollers, only the Disboards does, if it involves money. So if they are disallowing one type of money exchange, they should disallow ALL types of money exchange, regardless of what Disney's rules are.

 

[phorsenuf]

If the DIS was banning all threads about stroller/fridge swaps because they involve Disney storing items, your comments might be relevant.

But since free swaps are still fine and they are banning the other threads because they involve money being exchanged between DIS'ers, your comments are totally irrelevant.

As I said in a later post that since she is charging she essentially has a stroller rental business. That is in violation of the DIS guidelines. Plain and simple. FREE swaps can go on because they would not be considered a business.

Although I'm guessing its only a matter of time till those are not encouraged.

 

[JLKennedy]

Because it is written by Disney it is allowed. Show me IN WRITING by Disney that any of these swaps are allowed.

I really couldn't care less about swaps....but by virtue of your own response, please, show me where disney states that swaps are illegal.

 

[Smile4Me]

There are some crazy conversations going on...Even with the extreme upset of a lot of Disers, It is unfortunate that it appears whoever is in charge has not even considered creating a seperate spot for only swaps. Hope they aren't disappointed if, and ,or when their number of visits to their website go down cause swappers don't visit their boards nearly as much anymore whether it be for swap related topics, disney info, or just the camaraderie that builds on message boards.

Edit-
I have no opinion on the subject, but it is a supply and demand type of deal. Yahoo and other sites that allow swaps will see a greater demand because they supply people who want them. I was thinking more toward advertising and membership for the people who run the Dis boards...

 

[Mouse House Mama]

There are some crazy conversations going on...Even with the extreme upset of a lot of Disers, I feel it is unfortunate that it appears whoever is in charge has not even considered creating a seperate spot for only swaps. I hope they aren't disappointed if, and ,or when their number of visits to their website go down cause swappers don't visit their boards nearly as much anymore whether it be for swap related topics, disney info, or just the camaraderie that builds on message boards.

So you wouldn't come to converse with other people that love Disney because you can't swap a stroller/fridge/bag of buns etc?

 

[ZPT1022]

For the comment about Earth Day and not buying strollers and tossing them, here's a suggestion I've made before


DONATE THEM TO GIVE KIDS THE WORLD VILLAGE.


I believe they will even coordinate for the stroller to be picked up from you if you can't drop it off. These are children with life threatening illnesses and their families who are there on wish trips. Surely those of us who can afford to go to WDW can afford to make a stroller donation to such an organization.

 

[irishbosoxfan]

No joking.

And I don't consider myself to be the "fair" police but more of a recruiter to common sense.

And your analogy doesn't work--If something goes wrong with the car the company is responsible--if something goes wrong with the stroller (fridge,photopass,whatever) people complain to the DIS.

Whatever the DISs reason is for stopping the swaps everyone must be accepting of it.




And judging by most of the swappers responses,also the worst.

My original post.

Your chopped version of my post:
Originally Posted by irishbosoxfan
No joking.
And your analogy doesn't work--If something goes wrong with the car the company is responsible--if something goes wrong with the stroller (fridge,photopass,whatever) people complain to the DIS.

Whatever the DISs reason is for stopping the swaps everyone must be accepting of it.

And judging by most of the swappers responses,also the worst.

The analogy works just fine. It's the same thing. If the DIS wants to stop it because they are getting complaints, then ok. But that has nothing to do with whether doing a swap like that is equivalent to "getting something for nothing." Paying $15 to use a stroller for a week is exactly like paying $200 to use a car for a week.

You're right. The DIS can set whatever policy they want. If people disagree with the policy, they can post their reasons for not being happy with it.

I've read every thread on here and all I saw from the swappers is their opinion about why they don't like the policy and how they think it's unfair vs the DVC forum areas. The only nastiness I saw was the anti swappers who didn't just feel the need to give their opinions about why these threads should be banned, but instead, decided to accuse anyone who participated in swaps of acting illegally, imorally, trying to "scam disney out of money", and trying to "get something for nothing".
Saying something like "if you can't afford to rent a Disney stroller, than maybe you shouldn't be going to WDW" is just plain nasty and uncalled for.

No the analogy doesn't work.

And like AKA said the swaps are fine but not on the DIS.

DVC and all that it entails is a Disney sanctioned business--swapping a stroller/fridge on a message board is not.

So essentially she has a stroller rental business that she is promoting on the DIS which is a clear violating of the DIS guidelines. Seems pretty cut and dry to me as to why they are being discontinued.

I think I can take a good stab at it based on what I know and have read here:

1) As stated, the DIS (with narrowly controlled exceptions like DVC rentals) has always prohibited the commercial use of the DIS by its members. You can't sell stuff or advertise for personal benefit. While "swaps" where money changes hands aren't quite money making ventures, they're similar to things that have been shut down here in the past like people selling copies of WL lobby music for just a few dollars to cover the cost of the CD and mailing.

2) Any activity on such boards will be only tolerated until the "hassle" factor for moderators and the site owner reaches a certain threshold. Once that point is crossed, the tendency is for the mods to say "enough". Legalities and ethical questions about the now banished "swaps" aside, it was pretty clear that more and more people (even though a minority) were getting burned and losing money. Even though the DIS can post it up front that they are not responsible for member-to-member transactions made via the site, that won't stop people that feel they've been ripped-off from PMing the mods to seek information in an effort to try and track down their lost money or CD. It takes time and energy to deal with those situations. I also doubt that that mods and webmasters like knowing that more and more people were using the DIS as a tool for ripping people off. I think a threshold was crossed on several fronts, and the decision was made to "stop the hassle".

I also feel safe in saying that if the DVC rental board started to go south in terms of rip-offs that its activities might be halted too... I don't think it's immune from such triggers.

Lastly, I doubt that it had anything to do with the "bandwidth" that such swap threads were taking up. For the DIS, I sure they were a drop in the bucket.

A voice of reason!!

 

[mill4023]

Because it is written by Disney it is allowed. Show me IN WRITING by Disney that any of these swaps are allowed.

Does it say IN WRITING that you can walk down main street carrying a cup of coffee?
It doesn't?
Oh, then I guess that's not allowed?

Aside from the fact that your comment makes no sense at all, you are also getting completely off topic. The DIS is not obligated to allow discussion of something just because it's something that Disney says is allowed. And they are certainly not obligated to ban discussion of something that Disney has no policy on whatsoever.

None of this discussion is even remotely related to Disney policy. It's simply a discussion about what kind of discussion threads the DIS is going to allow.