Solo: A Star Wars Story

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Thing is, most everybody admits it is indeed character assassination.

Whether they say "don't like what was written for the character" or "people change", its still an admission.

I will also disagree with you here. "People change" is nowhere near a charge of "character assassination", which I don't think applies to the sequel-ization of a character anyway. SW-sanctioned writers changing Old Luke is not killing some previous version of him, no matter how strongly you feel about his idealized former self.

This endless discussion is showing why outsiders say the things they do about hardcore SW fans: what you think should have happened stops counting for anything once it becomes canon... which TFA and TLJ both now are.

And please stop comparing it to Harry Potter and the Avengers, as if there is supposed to be some sort of internal consistency between all fantasy series.
 
I will also disagree with you here. "People change" is nowhere near a charge of "character assassination", which I don't think applies to the sequel-ization of a character anyway. SW-sanctioned writers changing Old Luke is not killing some previous version of him, no matter how strongly you feel about his idealized former self.

This endless discussion is showing why outsiders say the things they do about hardcore SW fans: what you think should have happened stops counting for anything once it becomes canon... which TFA and TLJ both now are.

And please stop comparing it to Harry Potter and the Avengers, as if there is supposed to be some sort of internal consistency between all fantasy series.

Keep the point of a discussion board in mind.
 
I will also disagree with you here. "People change" is nowhere near a charge of "character assassination", which I don't think applies to the sequel-ization of a character anyway. SW-sanctioned writers changing Old Luke is not killing some previous version of him, no matter how strongly you feel about his idealized former self.

This endless discussion is showing why outsiders say the things they do about hardcore SW fans: what you think should have happened stops counting for anything once it becomes canon... which TFA and TLJ both now are.

Doesn't mean we have to like it. And discussion forums are just the place for discussions why we don't like it. It amazes me that people try and shut down the people they don't agree with like this. Personally I think what they did to Luke was tragic and stupid, but you are right that it is canon. It is up to me whether I want to continue with the canon. For right now, I do. But a discussion forum about Star Wars is exactly where I can and should express my displeasure with the myriad of stupid plots, plot holes, and generally poor storytelling that I think went in to TLJ.

I do think it is a beautifully cinematic movie. I think the storyline came second to Johnson's first really big budget movie. "Gee whiz, look what I can do with all this money" supplanted "should I do this to the story?" It doesn't matter if it makes sense, Johnson wanted that massive self-sacrificing explosion (pilot the ship with a droid!), he wanted that beautiful red sand (5 minutes in a speeder at full speed but half dead Rose was carried back in the blink of an eye!). He wanted that beautiful casino planet (which was an entire plot sequence with no point). He wanted dramatic, no sound, Superwoman in space (which Leia had no training for)! In the end, I don't think it mattered much that the story didn't really hold together or come close to working in concert with the first movie in the sequel. He made it pretty, but he forgot the whole point of a Star Wars tentpole, middle of the franchise movie. It's to appeal to the most people, make the most money, and to be relatively mindless but fun adventure.

And this is exactly the place to talk about it. You don't have to agree, but trying to shut down the discussion because someone doesn't like it says more about that person than it does the people having a discussion.
 
Keep the point of a discussion board in mind.

Doesn't mean we have to like it. And discussion forums are just the place for discussions why we don't like it. It amazes me that people try and shut down the people they don't agree with like this. Personally I think what they did to Luke was tragic and stupid, but you are right that it is canon. It is up to me whether I want to continue with the canon. For right now, I do. But a discussion forum about Star Wars is exactly where I can and should express my displeasure with the myriad of stupid plots, plot holes, and generally poor storytelling that I think went in to TLJ.

I do think it is a beautifully cinematic movie. I think the storyline came second to Johnson's first really big budget movie. "Gee whiz, look what I can do with all this money" supplanted "should I do this to the story?" It doesn't matter if it makes sense, Johnson wanted that massive self-sacrificing explosion (pilot the ship with a droid!), he wanted that beautiful red sand (5 minutes in a speeder at full speed but half dead Rose was carried back in the blink of an eye!). He wanted that beautiful casino planet (which was an entire plot sequence with no point). He wanted dramatic, no sound, Superwoman in space (which Leia had no training for)! In the end, I don't think it mattered much that the story didn't really hold together or come close to working in concert with the first movie in the sequel. He made it pretty, but he forgot the whole point of a Star Wars tentpole, middle of the franchise movie. It's to appeal to the most people, make the most money, and to be relatively mindless but fun adventure.

And this is exactly the place to talk about it. You don't have to agree, but trying to shut down the discussion because someone doesn't like it says more about that person than it does the people having a discussion.

I'm clearly not the only one tired of the endless "TLJ sucks" talk in a thread about the new Solo movie. And my comment was actually about endlesssssss discussion: it's not necessary to respond to every single comment with further and further arguments about why you think TLJ sucks. Nobody is trying to shut down discussion, but eventually the discussion can move on to the next topic...
 


I'm clearly not the only one tired of the endless "TLJ sucks" talk in a thread about the new Solo movie. And my comment was actually about endlesssssss discussion: it's not necessary to respond to every single comment with further and further arguments about why you think TLJ sucks. Nobody is trying to shut down discussion, but eventually the discussion can move on to the next topic...

It is hard to discuss the expected numbers for Solo without referencing how people felt about TLJ. It's going to be a factor. Solo may or may not have other problems or merits, but a strong fan base doesn't just ignore what came before. But for every comment negative about TLJ there has always been someone who has come to take the opposite path. It takes at least 2 to disagree.
 
And please stop comparing it to Harry Potter and the Avengers, as if there is supposed to be some sort of internal consistency between all fantasy series.

Can I compare it to LOTR?

The stormtroopers are like orcs
Luke is like Gandalf
Rey is like Frodo
Finn is like Sam
Yoda is like Gollum
Poe is like Pippin
Snoke is like Sauron
Leila is like Liv Tyler
 


That really surprises me as I keep seeing generally positive reviews.

The guy who sees movies on my local news station even said it was a fun movie.

Yes. I'm not a conspiracy guy at all, and I obviously didn't care for TLJ, but I do believe there is a very angry and vocal group of fans that is out for Star Wars blood right now. I think they are magnifying the negative numbers on places like Rotten Tomatoes, and I think it's a stupid thing to do. But people are people for better or worse.

I think my wife and I will be off to see it this weekend, though she is still choosing between Solo, Infinity Wars and our favorite foul-mouthed superhero. I'll be fine with seeing any of the three and just as happy waiting to see any of them on my tv at home. I'm pretty ambivalent about seeing movies in the movie theater these days given how good most home entertainment systems are.
 
Can I compare it to LOTR?

The stormtroopers are like orcs
Luke is like Gandalf
Rey is like Frodo
Finn is like Sam
Yoda is like Gollum
Poe is like Pippin
Snoke is like Sauron
Leila is like Liv Tyler

Well obviously if you're making that comparison you need to stick with the original trilogy, as it follows the same archetypal Hero's Journey template. :D
 
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That will happen Friday when people start writing about how Solo sucks!

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/solo_a_star_wars_story

The “want to see” score is 38%. That’s really surprising for a Star Wars Movie. 38% is just so low.

If you look at the comments from people though it is all from people that didn't like the Last Jedi and saying they are out do to that and I guess we shall see this weekend if that is a vocal minority or how a large chunk of the fan base feels

Also, apparently people are upset that it positions Lando as pansexual and how that is messed up and now they can't take their kids to see the movie due to that, etc.
 
Also, apparently people are upset that it positions Lando as pansexual and how that is messed up and now they can't take their kids to see the movie due to that, etc.

My understanding is that that's not in the movie, it's just what one of the screenwriters envisioned as they wrote the character, not that it should really be a problem even if I'm not sure Lando is that character as envisioned by the writer. People always overreact to this stuff.

Also, on the subject of the fans, Solo and TLJ are two different movies. Suppose Solo is more of the kind of Star Wars movie that those who disliked TLJ want to see. Then it's actually better for them if Solo does even better to show Lucasfilm that the fans prefer it. Trying to tear it down serves no purpose.
 
My understanding is that that's not in the movie, it's just what one of the screenwriters envisioned as they wrote the character, not that it should really be a problem even if I'm not sure Lando is that character as envisioned by the writer. People always overreact to this stuff.

Also, on the subject of the fans, Solo and TLJ are two different movies. Suppose Solo is more of the kind of Star Wars movie that those who disliked TLJ want to see. Then it's actually better for them if Solo does even better to show Lucasfilm that the fans prefer it. Trying to tear it down serves no purpose.

To the first, that is my understanding as well - that one of the screenwriters indicated that and Donald Glover went with it as he feels it makes sense for the character (as he put it "How can you not be pansexual in space? There are so many things to have sex with.") but yes there is nothing in the movie to demonstrate that, so if you didn't know the writer said that you wouldn't know from the movie. I think for some people they see this as "Disney pushing an agenda" and that turns them off

To the later, they are just saying they are done with the franchise and Kathleen Kennedy ruined it and they are just done and want everyone at Disney involved with making the Star Wars movies gone - so they hope if Solo (and then Episode IX) do bad that they will fire everyone (not likely in my mind)
 
To the later, they are just saying they are done with the franchise and Kathleen Kennedy ruined it and they are just done and want everyone at Disney involved with making the Star Wars movies gone - so they hope if Solo (and then Episode IX) do bad that they will fire everyone (not likely in my mind)

I wouldn't say Kathleen Kennedy ruined it, Rian Johnson did. Solo has never been a favorite character of mine so especially after TLJ I'm out on this. I'll be waiting for ObiWan. More to the fact I'm out on anything Rian Johnson puts his hands on star wars or not. I'm all in for Episode IX because JJ is doing it and I'm intrigued about the live action show Farveau is doing.
 
I wouldn't say Kathleen Kennedy ruined it, Rian Johnson did. Solo has never been a favorite character of mine so especially after TLJ I'm out on this. I'll be waiting for ObiWan. More to the fact I'm out on anything Rian Johnson puts his hands on star wars or not. I'm all in for Episode IX because JJ is doing it and I'm intrigued about the live action show Farveau is doing.

I think others are just grouping the entire brain trust that allowed TLJ to be made as it was together and saying they all need to go

Funnily I wouldn't be very excited for an Obi Wan film (I mean I'll see it like I'll see any Star Wars film, and I do like Ewen McGregor who seems really into doing the movie) but I feel like most of his story is already told. I'd rather get a Qui Gon film (maybe upto when he takes on Obi Wan or something)

I wasn't really looking forward to a Han Solo film in general but the trailers make it seem like a fun film as a standalone thing moreso than as part of the Star Wars universe
 
I think others are just grouping the entire brain trust that allowed TLJ to be made as it was together and saying they all need to go

Funnily I wouldn't be very excited for an Obi Wan film (I mean I'll see it like I'll see any Star Wars film, and I do like Ewen McGregor who seems really into doing the movie) but I feel like most of his story is already told. I'd rather get a Qui Gon film (maybe upto when he takes on Obi Wan or something)

I wasn't really looking forward to a Han Solo film in general but the trailers make it seem like a fun film as a standalone thing moreso than as part of the Star Wars universe

Honestly I would love a Qui Gon film too.. I mean i just prefer the Jedi/Sith characters vs guy with a gun.

From what I've read about the movie (All spoilers and plot points) it doesnt seem to exciting. Also I've said this before but for me if a Han Solo film is being made then there are like 3 or 4 must have things in there ... IE, how he got his gun, how him and chewy met, etc...

So with that being said one of those check boxes are left out and to me its the one i would want to see the most. Also, they gave away the ending of the movie in the trailer which i had a strong feeling they did when i first time i saw it. Very disappointing... but, i cant wait for you guys to see it so we can discuss.
 
If it doesn't rain on Sunday, I'm going to see Solo and Infinity War at a drive-in. It's been forever since I've been to a drive-in.

that's a nice double feature! We love the drive in and try to get to the one near us once or twice a year (though as we have little kids sometimes we only make it through the first film)
 
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