S/O: Divorce... how to cut down?

[brockash]

I don't think there is anything that can be done about divorce. It is a side effect of allowing people the freedom to make poor decisions. Therefore, I would be totally against any kind of law that makes people wait or incentives to make them stay in a bad marriage. I would also be against any kind of required counseling for marriage or divorce. The state needs to keep its nose to itself. Can divorce be hard on kids? Sure. But grown-ups can navigate that with the child in mind. If they are not grown-up to do that, they are also too immature to stay married.

I totally agree EXCEPT that I do believe there needs to be mandatory parenting and co-parenting classes required of both parents if there are kids involved. There are just so many parents who do so much damage to kids. Certainly not going to be the magic wand, but I do think it'll help. I'm 100% against making getting a divorce more difficult etc.

 

[DCLMP]

I'd argue that putting sex on a pedestal could cause people to rush into marriage. Waiting until they see if they are compatible seems much more conducive to a successful long term relationship.

Except the divorce rate was lower when people did put sex on a pedestal.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Except the divorce rate was lower when people did put sex on a pedestal.

That’s probably around the same time when women didn’t have economic independence.

 

[DCLMP]

That’s probably around the same time when women didn’t have economic independence.

Divorce is still very hard economically. I'm watching my neighbors go through it. She has to sell the house because she can't afford it. The husband had several affairs hooking up with women on one of the dating Apps.

Most single moms I know struggle. I would have struggled financially had I been in that situation.

 

[kymom99]

I absolutely married the wrong person the first time, and there was plenty warning. We had pre marriage counseling, engaged a long time, all of that. What a mess that was. It was like the textbook bad decision. I did divorce and got an annulment. My mom was not even mad, she knew all along it was a mistake.

My current husband was a better choice. However, after several good years, we went through a lot of crap that probably should have broken us. We worked through it all but there are a lot of scars. Sometimes I wonder if I might have been better off to throw in the towel, but I didn’t feel like that was an option. I often think about how my life could have turned out different.

 

[kdonnel]

That’s probably around the same time when women didn’t have economic independence.

I was about to say the same thing.

This page: https://www.wf-lawyers.com/divorce-statistics-and-facts/

Says:

5. The divorce rate per 1000 married women is nearly double that of 1960, but down from the all-time high of 22.6 in the early 1980s.

In the 60's and before, society gave women their status through their husband. If you didn't have a husband you were looked down upon. That judgement from people is so harmful.

The late 70's started the rise of women being able to be independent entities. No longer were they Mrs. HusbandFirstName HusbandLastName.

Looking at the divorce rate as rate per 1000 married women over the past 100 years:
https://www.bgsu.edu/ncfmr/resource...ange in the Divorce Rate,peak of 22.6 in 1980.



I feel like you can see woman gaining their independence between 1960 and 1980.

In my opinion the divorce rate then drops because woman did not feel an obligation to get married at 18-21. They could take their time to find a marriage partner without being judge as harshly by society.

 

[barkley]

Divorce is still very hard economically. I'm watching my neighbors go through it. She has to sell the house because she can't afford it.

where I've seen more divorces in recent years is with couples who have been married for DECADES and they are seeing tremendous economic challenges. in all the cases i'm familiar with it seemed all was well, no major transgressions on either partner's part but when one or both retired or in the case of the pandemic they shifted to both being at home together all day/every day-they came to the realization that they had very little in common and while all was well when it was just mornings/evenings/weekends and vacation weeks spent together they could not handle full 24/7. the economic fallout is their entire later life financial planning has been based on shared sources of income (pensions/ss/401 k's...) and expenses. many had homes paid off and planned to downsize to supplement (or had already downsized) but they are finding that even if everything is split right down the middle-it costs more for 2 single households than 1 dual. the homes inevitably get sold and then they are faced with both the sticker shock of housing and the sheer lack. factor in not realizing how much was saved each month by virtue of being on a spouse's health insurance vs. paying for it as an individual (even with an employer based plan) and they are experiencing a major financial downturn with few to no years to adjust and rebuild.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Divorce is still very hard economically. I'm watching my neighbors go through it. She has to sell the house because she can't afford it. The husband had several affairs hooking up with women on one of the dating Apps.

Most single moms I know struggle. I would have struggled financially had I been in that situation.

Yes I know. I divorced with two small kids. But at least I had a job, and had my own credit, and could get an apartment on my own with two kids, I owned my own car, etc. That wasn’t the case for many women back in the day so they stayed in unhappy, abusive marriages.

Yes it was a struggle but nothing lasts forever. Fifteen Years later it is hands down one of the best decisions I ever made for me and my kids lives.

 

[barkley]

I was about to say the same thing.

This page: https://www.wf-lawyers.com/divorce-statistics-and-facts/

Says:


In the 60's and before, society gave women their status through their husband. If you didn't have a husband you were looked down upon. That judgement from people is so harmful.

The late 70's started the rise of women being able to be independent entities. No longer were they Mrs. HusbandFirstName HusbandLastName.

Looking at the divorce rate as rate per 1000 married women over the past 100 years:
https://www.bgsu.edu/ncfmr/resources/data/family-profiles/FP-24-11.html#:~:text=Change in the Divorce Rate,peak of 22.6 in 1980.

View attachment 925130

I feel like you can see woman gaining their independence between 1960 and 1980.

In my opinion the divorce rate then drops because woman did not feel an obligation to get married at 18-21. They could take their time to find a marriage partner without being judge as harshly by society.

I SO remember the community college I attended in 80's offering and very much promoting 're-entry' courses focused to women. a good percentage of the women had not so much as a high school diploma -people don't realize the rate at which women graduating high school has increased in recent decades, back in the 70's 34% of women did not complete high school (I can look at my senior yearbook and many of the girls I went to school with from k on are not included b/c they had already dropped out and married). classes in basic skills to help them aquire their g.e.d's, classes in basic life skills (how to apply for a job, how to establish credit in their own name...), classes in just recognizing their own self-worth (these were incredibly competant women who handled entire households but did not recognize the skills they possessed that made them incredibly marketable to employers). it was fascinating to interact with these wonderful women and to hear their advice based on their experiences much of which centered around their beliefs that they wished (and were now activily encouraging their own daughters) that they had delayed marriage to have the opportunity to become more comfortable and competant with being independant and self sufficent.

 

[EACarlson]

How about we get rid of the institution of marriage? Or at least get the government out of it. Everything done with marriage can be done without it. If a couple wants a religious ceremony, fine, but what is the government's interest?

 

[gmi3804]

If you provide some kind of incentive (financial?) to be married, would people stay in bad marriages just because of the incentive?

Marriage, in the legal sense, is a public recognition of the union, and already comes with it legal financial protections (depending on which state you're married in) and federal and state tax advantages, which is why couples need a marriage license before they (optionally) have any kind of religious ceremony. Once you get that license, you're legally married. Tax laws already favor the legally married.

 

[sam_gordon]

A good marriage is hard work, and that’s why so many end in divorce. When the lust fades a tad and there is a need for selflessness…….many just are unwilling to do the work to build a lasting relationship. People are selfish and think the grass is always greener elsewhere. People are also lazy and unwilling to do the work to maintain the loving relationship.

Our government entitlements also financially rewards single motherhood over married couples and this has also led to the break down of our nuclear families imho.

So you want financial (other?) incentives to be married AND make it tougher for single mothers? Is that what you're saying? Leave government out of this, ignore who provides the money. Is that what you want?

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

the nuclear family is good for society, this has been proven over and over. Rampant divorce kills the nuclear family and degrades society in the process.

It should not be more financially viable to be a single mother, than living in a nuclear family with the father in the home. Our policies have lead to this degradation of the family in America.

 

[gmi3804]

A good marriage is hard work, and that’s why so many end in divorce. When the lust fades a tad and there is a need for selflessness…….many just are unwilling to do the work to build a lasting relationship. People are selfish and think the grass is always greener elsewhere. People are also lazy and unwilling to do the work to maintain the loving relationship.

Our government entitlements also financially rewards single motherhood over married couples and this has also led to the break down of our nuclear families imho.

Wrong. Marrieds receive FAR more incentives than any single person with or without government breaks. No one divorces "for the money."

Things change and people change, and reasons for being married change. It's not my position to moralize over someone else's decision to leave. Or stay.

 

[DCLMP]

where I've seen more divorces in recent years is with couples who have been married for DECADES and they are seeing tremendous economic challenges. in all the cases i'm familiar with it seemed all was well, no major transgressions on either partner's part but when one or both retired or in the case of the pandemic they shifted to both being at home together all day/every day-they came to the realization that they had very little in common and while all was well when it was just mornings/evenings/weekends and vacation weeks spent together they could not handle full 24/7. the economic fallout is their entire later life financial planning has been based on shared sources of income (pensions/ss/401 k's...) and expenses. many had homes paid off and planned to downsize to supplement (or had already downsized) but they are finding that even if everything is split right down the middle-it costs more for 2 single households than 1 dual. the homes inevitably get sold and then they are faced with both the sticker shock of housing and the sheer lack. factor in not realizing how much was saved each month by virtue of being on a spouse's health insurance vs. paying for it as an individual (even with an employer based plan) and they are experiencing a major financial downturn with few to no years to adjust and rebuild.

Yes there is that.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Our government entitlements also financially rewards single motherhood over married couples and this has also led to the break down of our nuclear families imho.

If a woman is choosing to stay single for government benefits (food stamps, welfare, etc) they aren’t even getting married in the first place. No one is divorcing because they’d rather stand in the welfare line.

It is not more financially viable to be divorced getting benefits than it is to be married with two incomes.

 

[lilmc]

Who cares? I want everyone in happy and consensual marriages. Or the option to get out. Free from all external pressures.

 

[Bad Pink Tink 2.0]

Does anyone else think the divorce rate is too high? According to this site, 40-50% of first marriages end in divorce and 60-67% of second marriages do so.

Can/should anything be done to make more "successful" marriages? If so, what? Or just "nope, keep things as they are"?

If you provide some kind of incentive (financial?) to be married, would people stay in bad marriages just because of the incentive?
Should there a waiting period (6 months? a year? longer?) between getting a marriage license and a wedding?

I'm torn. I don't want people to stay in bad marriages, but at the same time, I do think it's better (especially if there are kids) for couples to stay together.

Thoughts?

Oh, and this is a spin off to the Hannity thread where the bride's(?) three previous marriages were brought up.

Having grown up in a country where divorce was illegal, my country has suffered greatly from people not people allowed to divorce. People should not be forced to stay married, it does so much harm to everyone. Divorce became legal in Ireland in 1995 but the effects of it being illegal still resonate in Irish culture and society.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

It should not be more financially viable to be a single mother, than living in a nuclear family with the father in the home. Our policies have lead to this degradation of the family in America.

Could you provide an example of this? Because I am very skeptical of that claim.

 

[DCLMP]

the nuclear family is good for society, this has been proven over and over. Rampant divorce kills the nuclear family and degrades society in the process.

It should not be more financially viable to be a single mother, than living in a nuclear family with the father in the home. Our policies have lead to this degradation of the family in America.

Other than not paying taxes what is the financial benefit. Most single parents I know struggle.

The nuclear family is extremely important for a healthy society. I don’t even get how that’s an argument.