Fastpass return or replacement?

[Cabius]

The way I read into it...no one has to do the Genie recommendations, but it will be the quickest way to do the rides you want without paying.

Not necessarily.

A third-party app can genuinely give every user advice on how to optimize the day for the user. A Disney app has to give advice to optimize the day for the park.

TouringPlans can tell the small % of guests that use it how to optimize their day and get the most bang for their buck. The benefit consists entirely of being more informed than the average guest.

There are so many butts in so many seats on any given day at Magic Kingdom. An individual can get their butt in more seats by being more informed and organized than the average guests. But it's not possible for every guest to be above-average, and attempts to universalize differentiated goods entirely miss the point. It would be one thing if ride capacity were truly sitting empty, but that's really not the case.

-- Virtual queues may let people wait in two lines at once, or enjoy shopping/dining/atmosphere while they wait.

-- Limiting guests to one virtual queue in a class of attraction (like how you can't get a FP+ for multiple Tier 1 rides) or to one use per X days would actually reduce demand, which would be an improvement in terms of availability and thus wait times.

-- Paid FP+ may let people buy their way out of lines (but increase wait times for free guests commensurately - it's zero-sum).

-- Charging per ride ticket would actually bend the demand curve and reduce wait times, at the expense of guests (especially APs) not getting to go on as many attractions. No way they'll do this, though.

These are the things that can make a difference. The recommendation engine can't make every guest above-average.

 

[cakebaker]

I would hope we can opt out of having our hands held telling us what options are available, whether it's dining, attractions, shows etc....I've been going to WDW for decades. I don't need help deciding which of this or that I will like. Just give me a FP and let me go on my way! Genie really sounds like it's geared for those who don't have a clue what the parks offer- in other words- first and only timers.

I didn't read anything about the Lighting Pass rumor- I'm beginning to wonder if that's not anything that will come to pass.

 

[malba2366]

Not necessarily.

A third-party app can genuinely give every user advice on how to optimize the day for the user. A Disney app has to give advice to optimize the day for the park.

TouringPlans can tell the small % of guests that use it how to optimize their day and get the most bang for their buck. The benefit consists entirely of being more informed than the average guest.

There are so many butts in so many seats on any given day at Magic Kingdom. An individual can get their butt in more seats by being more informed and organized than the average guests. But it's not possible for every guest to be above-average, and attempts to universalize differentiated goods entirely miss the point. It would be one thing if ride capacity were truly sitting empty, but that's really not the case.

-- Virtual queues may let people wait in two lines at once, or enjoy shopping/dining/atmosphere while they wait.

-- Limiting guests to one virtual queue in a class of attraction (like how you can't get a FP+ for multiple Tier 1 rides) or to one use per X days would actually reduce demand, which would be an improvement in terms of availability and thus wait times.

-- Paid FP+ may let people buy their way out of lines (but increase wait times for free guests commensurately - it's zero-sum).

-- Charging per ride ticket would actually bend the demand curve and reduce wait times, at the expense of guests (especially APs) not getting to go on as many attractions. No way they'll do this, though.

These are the things that can make a difference. The recommendation engine can't make every guest above-average.

You are right… it will not improve things for the people who were booking fastpasses 180 days out or using touring plans etc. but it will improve things for the majority of the people in the parks.

 

[DefnotDLav]

You are right… it will not improve things for the people who were booking fastpasses 180 days out or using touring plans etc. but it will improve things for the majority of the people in the parks.

They are going to need a lot of people to use it for it to be successful. I can see them offering a free wish or whatever for signing up.

First hack, making multiple accounts lol

Which obviously won’t work if you have APs…

 

[asumom]

I am willing to spend more for a better experience, but I HATE being nickeled and dimed at every turn. I'd rather give them a pile of money up front and have lots of options than repeatedly have to decide if I want to spend $10 more to get in the fastpass lane. This is why, for example, I like the dining plan.

which is what we do now (giving disney tons of money for a vacation). very dissapointing if the only way to get fast passes is to pay even more.

 

[Arym]

Yeah, this is just basically just stealing cool merch ideas from Etsy sellers on a larger scale - taking third-party planning sites' business models and integrating them into their own revenue stream.

Interesting comment but I know this thread is not the place to ask you to elaborate. Maybe you'll see fit to start a thread on that sometime.

 

[snowwhite84]

Interesting comment but I know this thread is not the place to ask you to elaborate. Maybe you'll see fit to start a thread on that sometime.

Merch has gotten much better in the parks since Etsy exploded

 

[anomamatt]

They are going to need a lot of people to use it for it to be successful. I can see them offering a free wish or whatever for signing up.

First hack, making multiple accounts lol

Which obviously won’t work if you have APs…

Yes!

I’m sure we can figure out ways around it.

 

[Lewisc]

Merch has gotten much better in the parks since Etsy exploded

How many Disney oriented etsy sellers have Disney's permission? License use of Disney's IP

 

[Mac30188]

I maybe in the minority, but I believe the Geenie recommendation engine could be cool.

With regard to Geenie, Disney is not going to force you to do anything you don't want to. What the application could do is use a combination of machine learning and access to significantly more data than I can process to provide personalized recommendations options of what could be good thing to do right now. I have used Touring plans and Lines App before on trips to do almost the same thing, and I generally found them to be helpful. Did I ever follow their recommendations like a script? Never. However I have definitely used their recommendations to generally craft when would be good times to hit certain rides. I have definitely used lines app to help determine, oh god, we are not going to do that now...or... oh wow, look this is pretty short, lets do this now. This is likely a good thing that will make it easier to enjoy my day.

With regard to paid FP... Yes, that could be a deal breaker but a lot depends on price point and details. If you get a certain number free, it will be a non issue. If they are cheap enough, it will be a non-issue. While I understand people's hesitancy, I am still hopeful and optimistic that the system will provide a positive experience. While I understand the trend of eroding services combined with the COVID impact have left a cautious or even negative taste in users mouths, I still have faith that the system Disney is producing will be just one more option to provide an enhanced guest experience.

In contrast, right now there is nothing. Most reports on lines in the park have been luke warm at best. Several posters have responded after their returning that they would not return to Disney under current conditions. At this point, bad news to me would be something to the effect of "we have decided to do nothing."

At this point, virtually any news that points to a return to almost any system is good news to me. I really hope we hear more details today.

 

[emilymad]

A third-party app can genuinely give every user advice on how to optimize the day for the user. A Disney app has to give advice to optimize the day for the park.

This is the key takeaway for this entire discussion. Anything Disney does, free or paid, is to benefit Disney and their earning statements. If the guest happens to think it helps them then happy coincidence.

A third-party app works for you. The average guest will probably see no difference between these two but those of us here probably will. I don't want Disney planning my day. I know how to do it. I am envision getting a notice from Disney that "the wait time is low on the TTA so go do that now". I don't need an app to tell me that.

 

[mrd7896]

Unsure if a PP was saying it as an example or saw it on a blog or report but the aspect of helping those tour that aren’t “experts” or familiar with the parks is all fine and dandy but how in-depth will the genie actually be?

Me: “hey i want to ride SDMT”
Genie: “Awesome! Go at rope drop, during parades, or before the park closes!”
Me:

additionally, as we all know Disney inflates their wait times already. They always have (not this egregiously) but they always will to maintain some level of expectations. If ALL the wait times say 50+ minutes (when in reality potc is only 20 and HM is only 30) That will definitely incline *some* to purchase a FP and then the lines will ACTUALLY be that long.

Idk man I’m just getting more and more worried about it and that touring will have been changed significantly

I was okay with paying for one or two attractions throughout my stay-not every day-to guarantee getting to experience headliners at a lower wait but then if every other line is subsequently going to be 40+ minutes that’s misery all around.

 

[::danielle::]

Me: “hey i want to ride SDMT”
Genie: “Awesome! Go at rope drop, during parades, or before the park closes!”
Me:

there’s the other options you didn’t mention.

Genie: Awesome! The current wait time is 47 minutes. To reduce time waiting in line you can go at rope drop, during the 4pm parade, before the park closes, or you can reserve a LP+ pass for an additional $3/pp.


I’m not saying these are ideal options, only that they’re not a fatalistic as you proposed.

It sounds like the Genie app allows everyone to have all of the information and make the choice that’s right for them.

 

[anomamatt]

Genie: Awesome! The current wait time is 47 minutes. To reduce time waiting in line you can go at rope drop, during the 4pm parade, before the park closes, or you can reserve a LP+ pass for an additional $3/pp.

I think you are missing a zero on the price (at least if prices will be in line with DL Paris).

 

[New Mouse]

If the genie actually offers upcharge options, thats very poor story telling. Everyone knows the genie doesnt charge Aladdin.

 

[2Lunds]

Merch has gotten much better in the parks since Etsy exploded

How many Disney oriented etsy sellers have Disney's permission? License use of Disney's IP

As @snowwhite84 said, Etsy creators picked up on things that we loved about the parks, that were not really on Disney's merch radar. I'm not talking about bootlegged Mickey images being printed on t-shirts, I'm talking about things like being obsessed with the People Mover, or classic snacks. Disney picked up on the popularity of themes they had not really exploited and started creating merch around them. I'm not saying Disney is wrong in doing so, rather that they spotted an opportunity to re-direct that revenue into their own stream, and they took that opportunity. So, not much different than seeing that guests are paying subscriptions to third-party touring plan creators, and deciding to introduce their own in-house planning system.

 

[malba2366]

They are going to need a lot of people to use it for it to be successful. I can see them offering a free wish or whatever for signing up.

First hack, making multiple accounts lol

Which obviously won’t work if you have APs…

Im sure they will be smart enough to stop that…similar to the boarding groups for ROTR. Multiple people can have the same party set up on their phone but you can’t get 2 boarding Groups.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Genie: Awesome! The current wait time is 47 minutes. To reduce time waiting in line you can go at rope drop, during the 4pm parade, before the park closes, or you can reserve a LP+ pass for an additional $3/pp.

You forgot the '0' after the '3'.

 

[snowwhite84]

As @snowwhite84 said, Etsy creators picked up on things that we loved about the parks, that were not really on Disney's merch radar. I'm not talking about bootlegged Mickey images being printed on t-shirts, I'm talking about things like being obsessed with the People Mover, or classic snacks. Disney picked up on the popularity of themes they had not really exploited and started creating merch around them. I'm not saying Disney is wrong in doing so, rather that they spotted an opportunity to re-direct that revenue into their own stream, and they took that opportunity. So, not much different than seeing that guests are paying subscriptions to third-party touring plan creators, and deciding to introduce their own in-house planning system.

Agree! I have loved the elevated merch in the parks, particularly the explosion of Minnie ears designs!

 

[cakebaker]

Genie: Awesome! The current wait time is 47 minutes. To reduce time waiting in line you can go at rope drop, during the 4pm parade, before the park closes, or you can reserve a LP+ pass for an additional $3/pp.

There would have to be a parade first in order for that to happen.

Genie just won't have much to share on what to do right now other than which ride to go on next because there's absolutely nothing else being offered outside of a lite version of FOTLK.

And btw, there's not anything in that suggestion that I didn't already know. I'd just find it irritating. Should be pretty common knowledge that you can get a shorter wait going at rope drop, during a parade or right before the park closes. This is not super secret insider info. Selling me the FP, that's new and equally irritating that I'd have to go through all that just for the ability to pay for a single ride. I'm willing to pay for quick ride access if I have to, just please don't make me do it ride by ride. That's just ridiculous.