Even Disney Is Worried About the High Cost of a Disney Vacation

[LAS2AMS]

What I am gathering here is that a business should never change or adapt, no matter if it is demand or CPI, AND it should be willing to leave money on the table bc they will make that up down the road. Lol.

Basically, Disney is doomed while every other tourist destination is not doomed. Or something to that effect.

The forum fixates on Disney because most people don’t travel or even want to travel anywhere else, but travel costs have exploded over the past decade. It’s not limited to Disney at all. The largest price hikes are in Hawaii.

 

[Miffy]

This thread reminds me a bit of the post-covid thread where posters were convinced (and actually very convincing in their arguments) that Disney would never bring back AP sales and would at some point not renew APs either.

There were a lot of very well-thought-out reasons for this yet they were in the end proven wrong. WDW did bring back APs. And they brought back bounceback offers. And they ended having to pay to park at a resort.

So I'm hoping that perhaps they'll wise up and bring back DME. To me, this was the worst thing they did, even worse than turning free FPs into for-$ LL. Why? Because they turned something that was such a huge convenience into a service not half as good as MDE was and that really has nothing to do with WDW. You can't book Mears Connect on the WDW site, for example.

But I think they're going to be very unhappy with the results of dynamic ticket pricing. At some point, they are definitely going to start losing customers. And even though Disney once seemed to be saying that they didn't care about repeat customers and wanted only once-in-a-lifetime-spend-the-bank visitors, I think they have realized this doesn't work. Exhibit A: the Starcruiser.

 

[LAS2AMS]

So I'm hoping that perhaps they'll wise up and bring back DME. To me, this was the worst thing they did, even worse than turning free FPs into for-$ LL. Why? Because they turned something that was such a huge convenience into a service not half as good as MDE was and that really has nothing to do with WDW. You can't book Mears Connect on the WDW site, for example

DME isn’t coming back. The reasons the service launched, no longer exist. In the 2000s, Disney had a glut of hotel capacity to the point that large portions of the Disney Institute, Port Orleans, Caribbean Beach, All-Stars, etc. would be shuttered during off peak periods. Today, demand is so strong that many of its resorts, especially the Values, sell out months in advance.

Fuel, insurance and labor costs have increased exponentially since DME was launched. Bookings are up. Ridership was down. Not a week goes by on these forums in which somebody who has been to WDW a million times writes “I don’t take WDW transportation, I get a ride share. My Disney time is too precious.”

But I think they're going to be very unhappy with the results of dynamic ticket pricing. At some point, they are definitely going to start losing customers. And even though Disney once seemed to be saying that they didn't care about repeat customers and wanted only once-in-a-lifetime-spend-the-bank visitors, I think they have realized this doesn't work. Exhibit A: the Starcruiser.

Disney has never said they didn’t care about repeat visitors — repeat visitors are its core base, the ones who spend the most, the ones willing to pay whatever the price is. No first time visitor is going to spend $400/night at the Port Orleans.

The Star Wars property failed largely due to union victories that won higher compensation and categorization. Labor costs ended up being way more than budgeted, resulting in high per night fees. Doubt Disney would’ve moved forward with the project today at those rates.

 

[Minnie1222]

And even though Disney once seemed to be saying that they didn't care about repeat customers and wanted only once-in-a-lifetime-spend-the-bank visitors, I think they have realized this doesn't work. Exhibit A: the Starcruiser.

A $6000 Star Wars voyage is very different from a $200 multi-themed amusement park ticket.

 

[TinkAgainU]

A point rarely mentioned is that a lot of hard core Disney Lovers are "aging" out and the younger generations have fond memories of a number of different, and expanding (looking at you Epic Universe) parks.

This would be where I bring up one of the pet peeves of friends - where are the benches at the parks? I can't prove it, but I'm reasonably sure a Lot of those Scooters are there because there is a shortage of places (especially with shade) to sit in many of the parks. If you have to bring your own chair at $200+ per day, it's not a good sign lol.

 

[Brian Noble]

The nighttime shows and parades also are lacking compared to the old days....

What's missing other than the MK night parade---which is due back this summer?

Fantasmic is Fantasmic. I haven't seen the new Pocahontas-less version yet, but I haven't heard much chatter about it one way or the other as a downgrade/upgrade.

HEA is very very good. A little less heart than Wishes, but much more of a spectacle.

Luminous is a lot of fun. It is a very different show than Illuminations, but I think it is fair to say that the latter had to grow on most people a little bit. I know I didn't "get it" the first few times I saw it.

I was one of the few people who loved Rivers of Light---I thought it was GREAT. But it only lasted a hot minute, and I don't think dates back to "the old days" seeing as how it opened in 2017 and lasted just over three years.

 

[BrianL]

What's missing other than the MK night parade---which is due back this summer?

Fantasmic is Fantasmic. I haven't seen the new Pocahontas-less version yet, but I haven't heard much chatter about it one way or the other as a downgrade/upgrade.

HEA is very very good. A little less heart than Wishes, but much more of a spectacle.

Luminous is a lot of fun. It is a very different show than Illuminations, but I think it is fair to say that the latter had to grow on most people a little bit. I know I didn't "get it" the first few times I saw it.

I was one of the few people who loved Rivers of Light---I thought it was GREAT. But it only lasted a hot minute, and I don't think dates back to "the old days" seeing as how it opened in 2017 and lasted just over three years.

I also liked Rivers of Light (original version) and so did a friend of mine who I would not have expected that from. It touched him deeply.

Fantasmic is still good with the changes. It was more of a lateral move, though they did upgrade the projectors recently.

I like Luminous and you've gotta respect the pivot away from the poorly received Harmonious. I bet they expected to use those barges for a while! The show was actually really good while it was running - the issue was leaving the barges out all day.

 

[Minnie1222]

A point rarely mentioned is that a lot of hard core Disney Lovers are "aging" out and the younger generations have fond memories of a number of different, and expanding (looking at you Epic Universe) parks.

Every generation has its hardcores. There are likely more of them now due to the increasing population and cheaper airfares.

 

[Brian Noble]

This was in the WSJ today.

https://www.wsj.com/economy/consumers/us-economy-strength-rich-spending-2c34a571

It is paywalled, so here is a reasonable summary:

The top 10% of earners—households making about $250,000 a year or more—are splurging on everything from vacations to designer handbags, buoyed by big gains in stocks, real estate and other assets. Those consumers now account for 49.7% of all spending, a record in data going back to 1989, according to an analysis by Moody’s Analytics. Three decades ago, they accounted for about 36%. [...] Between September 2023 and September 2024, the high earners increased their spending by 12%. Spending by working-class and middle-class households, meanwhile, dropped over the same period.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

A cavalcade is not a parade.

I do find the subject of this post ironic since Disney literally just announced trying to milk the consumers to the max with the "dynamic" pricing. Doesn't seem like they care much about the price.

Dynamic pricing is a myth as there's a floor price. It's only dynamic on the high end.

There has to be a floor no matter what they're offering. It's not like Disney (or any company for that matter) starts pricing at 0. So it will constantly fluctuate between the floor and the ceiling.

 

[New Mouse]

There has to be a floor no matter what they're offering. It's not like Disney (or any company for that matter) starts pricing at 0. So it will constantly fluctuate between the floor and the ceiling.

So then it's not truly dynamic. It's dynamic starting at the lowest we would possibly take which is often at or below the existing floor before it's implemented. Aka just another price increase dressed up to make it look like they care.

 

[Minnie1222]

Aka just another price increase dressed up to make it look like they care.

Why do they even need to show that they care? Do people not realize that this has always been a transactional relationship? Whatever fluttering feelings one may experienced were eternally one-sided. Lol.

 

[Cfabar1]

What's missing other than the MK night parade---which is due back this summer?

Fantasmic is Fantasmic. I haven't seen the new Pocahontas-less version yet, but I haven't heard much chatter about it one way or the other as a downgrade/upgrade.

HEA is very very good. A little less heart than Wishes, but much more of a spectacle.

Luminous is a lot of fun. It is a very different show than Illuminations, but I think it is fair to say that the latter had to grow on most people a little bit. I know I didn't "get it" the first few times I saw it.

I was one of the few people who loved Rivers of Light---I thought it was GREAT. But it only lasted a hot minute, and I don't think dates back to "the old days" seeing as how it opened in 2017 and lasted just over three years.

Tapestry of Nations at EPCOT
AK March of the Animals
Rivers of Light at AK

Perhaps I should have said the parades and nighttime shows… might have been more clear…

 

[Brian Noble]

I confess I never saw Tapestry. But the AK daytime parade was fun---as was the one at Studios. It seems like both of those have been gone a long time, and TBH I miss the Studios streetmosphere more.

 

[Summer2018]

Why do they even need to show that they care? Do people not realize that this has always been a transactional relationship? Whatever fluttering feelings one may experienced were eternally one-sided. Lol.

Disney set the tone for creating magical experiences and caring about guests or making us think they cared. More cast members than I could count went above and beyond with us and seemed quite genuine. Once you’ve experienced special moment after special moment over a period of decades, you become accustomed to it. I especially felt it in Disneyland much more than in WDW. I wanted to be able to go back to that magical bubble again and again without going bankrupt. Am I being naive? Perhaps I am. As a kindergarten teacher, I am very in touch with my inner child and empathize with children. Witnessing the reactions of children who were given magical moments by cast members was as much fun as experiencing it firsthand.

Walt and Roy created something so special that competitors have tried and failed to duplicate. It’s just sad that the prices have become so astronomical that many children will never have the opportunity to experience it.

 

[Brian Noble]

Why do they even need to show that they care?

I don't know that they need to, but it is their business model. Disney is a company that makes its money by selling happiness. And they are very good at it, so:

Do people not realize that this has always been a transactional relationship? Whatever fluttering feelings one may experienced were eternally one-sided.

Most people do not at first, because Disney is good at what it does.

And in the early days it is easy to confuse "Disney makes money by selling happiness" with "Disney wants me, specifically, to be happy." Eventually, something happens that puts the lie to the second statement, and depending on how deep the pixie dust addiction has run by that point, the withdrawal can be real.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Disney set the tone for creating magical experiences and caring about guests or making us think they cared. More cast members than I could count went above and beyond with us and seemed quite genuine. Once you’ve experienced special moment after special moment over a period of decades, you become accustomed to it. I especially felt it in Disneyland much more than in WDW. I wanted to be able to go back to that magical bubble again and again without going bankrupt. Am I being naive? Perhaps I am. As a kindergarten teacher, I am very in touch with my inner child and empathize with children. Witnessing the reactions of children who were given magical moments by cast members was as much fun as experiencing it firsthand.

Walt and Roy created something so special that competitors have tried and failed to duplicate. It’s just sad that the prices have become so astronomical that many children will never have the opportunity to experience it.

Walt never built Disneyland for everyone to experience it, there's always been a cost associated with it. The fact that the parks are so popular that Disney can charge "astronomical" prices speaks to the "magic" they're able to provide.

Think of it this way, if Disney decided to charge less, even more people would buy tickets, ticket sales translate to foot traffic (a problem many of people have called out ie it's too crowded). Remember that there is only a finite amount of tickets to be sold because of capacity in the parks. To combat this problem Disney charges more for tickets (Supply and Demand) which in turn gives them a number of guests they are more comfortable with.

In a perfect world everyone would enjoy an affordable vacation. In the real world it's not practical. In general people shouldn't let idealism cloud them to reality, and we shouldn't hold a company to an impossible standard

 

[LAS2AMS]

don't know that they need to, but it is their business model. Disney is a company that makes its money by selling happiness. And they are very good at it, so:

Happiness and nostalgia. Disney captures some happy moments, and the nostalgia factor keeps people coming back. Notice the backlash whenever Disney makes a change. For example, The Great Movie Ride was a dated, expensive ride waning in popular facing tens of millions in maintenance costs (the track and ride vehicle system needed replacement). Disney choose to invest in a new ride experience that’s much more popular, but a large subset of Disney fans are unhappy because years of memories were lost.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

So then it's not truly dynamic. It's dynamic starting at the lowest we would possibly take which is often at or below the existing floor before it's implemented. Aka just another price increase dressed up to make it look like they care.

Disney has set the lowest price they are willing to take. That is completely and totally up to the company, believing that they can ask for less is a personal belief but not based in anything aside from personal opinion.

 

[Cfabar1]

Happiness and nostalgia. Disney captures some happy moments, and the nostalgia factor keeps people coming back. Notice the backlash whenever Disney makes a change. For example, The Great Movie Ride was a dated, expensive ride waning in popular facing tens of millions in maintenance costs (the track and ride vehicle system needed replacement). Disney choose to invest in a new ride experience that’s much more popular, but a large subset of Disney fans are unhappy because years of memories were lost.

I think there’s more to it than that…

The Great Movie Ride was set in a recreation of an iconic theatre… While there you watched scenes and moments from great movies…

Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railroad does not need to be set in a theatre at all… Despite attempts to make it seem sensical by showing all these Mickey and Minnie movie posters inside, it doesn’t really make sense why you are walking through a theatre to get there… Also, I am convinced a huge part of the popularity/long waits is because well, there isn’t much else for little kids to do at Disney’s MGM Studios… I don’t think the waits would be as severe if that ride were in the Magic Kingdom.

It was expensive to run and operate, and if it wasn’t popular, it makes sense to get rid of it.

This is a conundrum Disney has with many of the more show-style attractions right now. The country bears don’t pack them in at all, the Muppets are being replaced because there is never ending seating available every time I go in there… Walt knew things needed to change, and the park couldn’t stand still. The one concern I have is that Disney shouldn’t be just another theme park…