Cabins at Fort Wilderness Points Charts Posted! For Sale and Booking Dates too!

[CarolynFH]

I’ll never understand why the bunks have been in the master last iteration and this. Just doesn’t seem to make much sense since they could have put that wall that separates the bedroom from living space virtually anywhere

The cabins have always been like that - bunks and a queen in the bedroom, queen of some kind in the living room. When we stayed there in 1994, we put the kids in the bedroom and we took the living room, which was a Murphy bed at the time (1st iteration of the cabins - the ones being replaced now have sofa beds in the living room). I don't know whether there's something on the foundation that required them to do the same with the DVC version of the cabins, but given that there's no TV in the bedroom, I'd rather have the kids sleeping in there so I can watch TV with DH after they go to bed.

 

[champagne&disney]

The cabins have always been like that - bunks and a queen in the bedroom, queen of some kind in the living room. When we stayed there in 1994, we put the kids in the bedroom and we took the living room, which was a Murphy bed at the time (1st iteration of the cabins - the ones being replaced now have sofa beds in the living room). I don't know whether there's something on the foundation that required them to do the same with the DVC version of the cabins, but given that there's no TV in the bedroom, I'd rather have the kids sleeping in there so I can watch TV with DH after they go to bed.

There is a smaller tv in the bedroom!

 

[Wendysofftoneverland]

The cabins have always been like that - bunks and a queen in the bedroom, queen of some kind in the living room. When we stayed there in 1994, we put the kids in the bedroom and we took the living room, which was a Murphy bed at the time (1st iteration of the cabins - the ones being replaced now have sofa beds in the living room). I don't know whether there's something on the foundation that required them to do the same with the DVC version of the cabins, but given that there's no TV in the bedroom, I'd rather have the kids sleeping in there so I can watch TV with DH after they go to bed.

The family suites at Universal's Cabana Bay have 2 beds in the bedroom and the couch bed in the living room (but there you have to walk through the bedroom to the bathroom). Not ideal, but not terrible. I like that the cabins have a Murphy bed in the living room...I will sleep on that but not a couch bed. There's room for 6 if you need it (like when we bring the grandparents) or room for 4 when you don't. I was sad they didn't add a w/d, but considering the point chart, it wasn't a deal breaker.

Our family loves Fort Wilderness. But we also love SSR, which some people don't. The great thing about DVC is there is a different product for different members. Our next trip to Disney is going to be a split stay between AKL and 2 nights in a tent site to experience trick or treating at the Fort. We are probably one of the few current DVC families that Fort Wilderness points would actually make sense for. We were ready to buy CFW (even with restrictions), but not with those dues.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

The real death knell for CFW isn't the features. It's the dues and the restrictions. People who decide to buy there direct need to understand that there is a very real possibility that in 10 years not only will CFW be completely worthless on the resale market, it may be difficult to get rid of even for free. That is not an unbelievable scenario since it is the fate of many other timeshares.

The "industry standard" that Disney is trying to emulate here, resale restrictions and extremely high annual dues is present in many of the timeshare systems where the timeshare is ultimately such a huge liability that it can't even be given away for free.

If CFW dues increase by an average of 5 percent per year, in 10 years, they will be $19.82 per point.
If CFW dues increase by an average of 6 percent per year, in 10 years they will $21.79 per point.
If CFW dues increase by an average of 7 percent per year, in 10 years they will be $23.94 per point.

I see no optimistic reason why they will average just 5 percent given history, but maybe the CFW owners get lucky, there are no major storms that hit Orlando in the next 10 years that damage these trailers, and dues increases hold steady at 6 percent per year such that in 2034 the owners are paying $21.79 per point for the cabin. Lets further assume that an owner after 10 years decides they don't want it anymore and decides to sell (not unrealistic given the average amount of time people tend to hold onto their DVC timeshares).

A resale purchaser of 150 points (who is going to be more savvy than most who bought direct), is immediately going to be paying $3,268.50 in annual dues for points that can only ever be used to book those cabins. That savvy resale purchase will also see the historical 6 percent increases and realize that if they own it for 10 years, at the end of their 10 years, the dues will be $39.02 per point, or $5,853.38 per year.

Now yes, there will have been inflation in that time, dues increases almost always outpace inflation. Do you think that there will exist that many resale purchasers in 10 years willing to take this on, at any price? I don't.

People should not be purchasing this from Disney. It is an extremely bad deal. It is a huge financial liability from which the purchaser may never be able to escape. It has qualities of the worst actors in the timeshare industry out there (like Westgate). People who are considering purchasing CFW should be encouraged not to purchase, and anyone who makes the purchase should be given the advice to rescind if they are within the rescission period.

And I say this all as someone who has purchased DVC resale and direct, so I'm not just a direct purchase naysayer. But CFW is a really really really bad deal.

My two cents.

 

[intamin]

Lots and lots of families go to Disney and stay in one hotel room, and given how popular studios are within DVC, I’d say owners too.

Now, it’s definitely a unique product and not for everyone…but given the lack of incentives in relation to poor sales, there must be a long term plan for this project.

Give it walking distance to River Country 2.0 and it may be in business. At the very least I think it needs Reflections to fix this. That's true that majority of families do still sleep in studios but I think when given the option most would probably prefer for kids to sleep outside in the living room when given the space so mom and dad can unwind by themselves in the master. Most little kids when they see that bunk bed are going to jump at the opportunity to sleep there instead of wanting to sleep on the bed outside. That with the fact that it IMO clutters up the master idk I'm just not a fan. Probably could've had a larger bathroom instead of the bunkbed and fit a bathtub in there instead but /shrug I'll get off my soap box lol. I know this resort isn't for me so there's no point in trying to make suggestions. As long as the people who own there and want to stay there are happy with the configuration that's all that matters.

 

[Doberge]

The real death knell for CFW isn't the features. It's the dues and the restrictions. People who decide to buy there direct need to understand that there is a very real possibility that in 10 years not only will CFW be completely worthless on the resale market, it may be difficult to get rid of even for free. That is not an unbelievable scenario since it is the fate of many other timeshares.

The "industry standard" that Disney is trying to emulate here, resale restrictions and extremely high annual dues is present in many of the timeshare systems where the timeshare is ultimately such a huge liability that it can't even be given away for free.

If CFW dues increase by an average of 5 percent per year, in 10 years, they will be $19.82 per point.
If CFW dues increase by an average of 6 percent per year, in 10 years they will $21.79 per point.
If CFW dues increase by an average of 7 percent per year, in 10 years they will be $23.94 per point.

I see no optimistic reason why they will average just 5 percent given history, but maybe the CFW owners get lucky, there are no major storms that hit Orlando in the next 10 years that damage these trailers, and dues increases hold steady at 6 percent per year such that in 2034 the owners are paying $21.79 per point for the cabin. Lets further assume that an owner after 10 years decides they don't want it anymore and decides to sell (not unrealistic given the average amount of time people tend to hold onto their DVC timeshares).

A resale purchaser of 150 points (who is going to be more savvy than most who bought direct), is immediately going to be paying $3,268.50 in annual dues for points that can only ever be used to book those cabins. That savvy resale purchase will also see the historical 6 percent increases and realize that if they own it for 10 years, at the end of their 10 years, the dues will be $39.02 per point, or $5,853.38 per year.

Now yes, there will have been inflation in that time, dues increases almost always outpace inflation. Do you think that there will exist that many resale purchasers in 10 years willing to take this on, at any price? I don't.

People should not be purchasing this from Disney. It is an extremely bad deal. It is a huge financial liability from which the purchaser may never be able to escape. It has qualities of the worst actors in the timeshare industry out there (like Westgate). People who are considering purchasing CFW should be encouraged not to purchase, and anyone who makes the purchase should be given the advice to rescind if they are within the rescission period.

And I say this all as someone who has purchased DVC resale and direct, so I'm not just a direct purchase naysayer. But CFW is a really really really bad deal.

My two cents.

That's a pretty aggressive increase for a new resort. I still think the first few years increases will be pretty low, like Riviera increases relative to other resorts.

Resale CFW.. I'm going to say ends up going for under 50 per point in the next 7 years (probably faster)

Resale RIV at least has multiple room types, better location, skyliner, amenities, restaurants and a lot of people do actually like the resort and it's already sitting at 100-115 on the resale market.

CFW has none of that with much higher dues.. I'm pretty certain it'll become the first "worthless" DVC contract on WDW property.

Riviera is not that low. The lowest listinh on ********** is $109 and only 6 of 55 are $115 or less. The average actual sale on DVC market was $126, just below BLT's $130 and Copper Creek $133. Riviera resale has slotted in higher than expectations.

All to say I'm having a hard time predicting FW resale. In two years if I can buy resale for like $96 and get 48 more years that's $2/point on top of dues, lets say with dues and closing costs I'm in another $14, or about $16/point. In Fall I'd need 170 points and trip is about $365/night with rough costs. I don't thats too bad. The problem is still buying direct now and being in at like $4/point acquisition. Most people will still be better off buying Riviera or Poly direct and then switching into FW, but at least a low enough resale price can make FW resale an option for those like me that'd be okay staying annually.

 

[Doberge]

I also think things can be salvaged as part of a larger resort if they build reflections and tie it to FW enough to include the cabins. That way (1) there are additional room types available to make more attractive to buyers, and (2) cabin costs are lumped into Reflections 2 costs and it smooths out cabin cost drivers over more total points at the combined resort.

 

[intamin]

Riviera is not that low. The lowest listinh on ********** is $109 and only 6 of 55 are $115 or less. The average actual sale on DVC market was $126, just below BLT's $130 and Copper Creek $133. Riviera resale has slotted in higher than expectations.

All to say I'm having a hard time predicting FW resale. In two years if I can buy resale for like $96 and get 48 more years that's $2/point on top of dues, lets say with dues and closing costs I'm in another $14, or about $16/point. In Fall I'd need 170 points and trip is about $365/night with rough costs. I don't thats too bad. The problem is still buying direct now and being in at like $4/point acquisition. Most people will still be better off buying Riviera or Poly direct and then switching into FW, but at least a low enough resale price can make FW resale an option for those like me that'd be okay staying annually.

Lol I don't think those RIV contracts are selling for as much as they're listed for otherwise they'd be gone already. During the last ROFR thread there was a fully loaded RIV that went for 116. But I'll humor you and say they go for 110-125 instead lol. The sponsor website is also usually overpriced so I wouldn't go based off theirs personally

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I also think things can be salvaged as part of a larger resort if they build reflections and tie it to FW enough to include the cabins. That way (1) there are additional room types available to make more attractive to buyers, and (2) cabin costs are lumped into Reflections 2 costs and it smooths out cabin cost drivers over more total points at the combined resort.

If they really build reflections and this just becomes a room type of reflections and the dues really do stabilize, sure, I agree, it could be salvaged. But I sure wouldn’t buy right now hoping that might happen.

 

[Doberge]

Lol I don't think those RIV contracts are selling for as much as they're listed for otherwise they'd be gone already. During the last ROFR thread there was a fully loaded RIV that went for 116. But I'll humor you and say they go for 110-125 instead lol. The sponsor website is also usually overpriced so I wouldn't go based off theirs personally

I agree about sponsor listings being overpriced but that's why I also shared the average *sale* price as $126.

 

[Doberge]

If they really build reflections and this just becomes a room type of reflections and the dues really do stabilize, sure, I agree, it could be salvaged. But I sure wouldn’t buy right now hoping that might happen.

For sure. FW as priced makes sense for pretty much no one. It makes more sense to buy Riviera, or wait for Poly, to pay less in dues and then eventually swap into FW at 7 months. Long term swapping in should be a breeze.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

. Long term swapping in should be a breeze.

This is also true. So few people have bought it, and they’ve declared so much, that 7 month swap-ins should be easy after the novelty of it wears off. The fact that there is only one room type should make that even easier.

 

[ocdb8r1]

The real death knell for CFW isn't the features. It's the dues and the restrictions. People who decide to buy there direct need to understand that there is a very real possibility that in 10 years not only will CFW be completely worthless on the resale market, it may be difficult to get rid of even for free. That is not an unbelievable scenario since it is the fate of many other timeshares.

The "industry standard" that Disney is trying to emulate here, resale restrictions and extremely high annual dues is present in many of the timeshare systems where the timeshare is ultimately such a huge liability that it can't even be given away for free.

If CFW dues increase by an average of 5 percent per year, in 10 years, they will be $19.82 per point.
If CFW dues increase by an average of 6 percent per year, in 10 years they will $21.79 per point.
If CFW dues increase by an average of 7 percent per year, in 10 years they will be $23.94 per point.

I see no optimistic reason why they will average just 5 percent given history, but maybe the CFW owners get lucky, there are no major storms that hit Orlando in the next 10 years that damage these trailers, and dues increases hold steady at 6 percent per year such that in 2034 the owners are paying $21.79 per point for the cabin. Lets further assume that an owner after 10 years decides they don't want it anymore and decides to sell (not unrealistic given the average amount of time people tend to hold onto their DVC timeshares).

A resale purchaser of 150 points (who is going to be more savvy than most who bought direct), is immediately going to be paying $3,268.50 in annual dues for points that can only ever be used to book those cabins. That savvy resale purchase will also see the historical 6 percent increases and realize that if they own it for 10 years, at the end of their 10 years, the dues will be $39.02 per point, or $5,853.38 per year.

Now yes, there will have been inflation in that time, dues increases almost always outpace inflation. Do you think that there will exist that many resale purchasers in 10 years willing to take this on, at any price? I don't.

People should not be purchasing this from Disney. It is an extremely bad deal. It is a huge financial liability from which the purchaser may never be able to escape. It has qualities of the worst actors in the timeshare industry out there (like Westgate). People who are considering purchasing CFW should be encouraged not to purchase, and anyone who makes the purchase should be given the advice to rescind if they are within the rescission period.

And I say this all as someone who has purchased DVC resale and direct, so I'm not just a direct purchase naysayer. But CFW is a really really really bad deal.

My two cents.

I don't disagree with you, but just to be devil's advocate, there will still be some value to larger families that are focused on "heads in beds". Assuming your 6% CAGR on dues:

• 10 years from now a Cabin (sleeps 6+dog) would cost $3481.60 in annual dues for a week in Oct/Nov (excluding Thanksgiving week) based on 160 points required;
• 10 years from now a 1-bed at CCV (sleeps 4) would cost $3752.91 in annual dues for a week in Oct/Nov (excluding Thanksgiving week) based on 259 points required;
• 10 years from now a 1-bed standard view at AKV (sleeps 4 or 5) would cost $3398.34 in annual dues for a week in Oct/Nov (excluding Thanksgiving week) based on 209 points required;

Yes, you give up a washer/dryer but you gain more outdoor space and no walls shared with neighbors....and if you have six, the jump to a 2-bed is costly.

Personally, I still wouldn't touch CFW with a 10-foot pole unless something is done about the dues. We don't need six beds AND I think your hypothesis that this will become a very low-value resale will result in a lot more "breakage" (unused points due to defaults, contracts waiting to be sold...etc) meaning I can pick up an occasional stay there with my small direct contract (at a much lower dues cost). But, I just wanted to illustrate that SOME will still find value in these contracts (and that's even if nothing is done to improve the annual dues and/or amenities at the resort, which I think DVC will be forced to eventually address).

 

[Doberge]

This is also true. So few people have bought it, and they’ve declared so much, that 7 month swap-ins should be easy after the novelty of it wears off. The fact that there is only one room type should make that even easier.

Even with relatively so few declared one can swap into cabins at seven months. I just checked and seven months from today is 2/3 and it's wide open availability starting 1.31.

Even more long-term there's potential to be more declared cabins than Poly longhouse studios. The Poly longhouse studios that are fewer points per night in a better location are generally easy to get into at 7 months than the less demanded FW cabins.

This pass the first time I've spoken of these are "potential" to be fully declared. It's wild to think that it could just be always on sale like Aulani. And I don't think Disney cares as long as cash occupancy rate is high enough.

 

[crvetter]

Even more long-term there's potential to be more declared cabins than Poly longhouse studios. The Poly longhouse studios that are fewer points per night in a better location are generally easy to get into at 7 months than the less demanded FW cabins.

The Poly Studios (standard view) are actually a tiny bit more per night than the cabins. I don’t disagree that the cabins seem like a weird product (and less desirable location) but we are all operating under the assumption that DVC and Disney currently care (or ever) about selling them out. Though I like that at 7 months I have another option, and am staying there Thanksgiving week over when my AP is blocked out because it offers easily the most resort activities.

Did the cash side usually sell them out? I thought they were pretty populate cash booming.

 

[CastAStone]

Did the cash side usually sell them out?

Not really.

 

[DonkeyHoTay]

I'm sitting on a Favorite Week #50 contract for CFW - just waiting for my DocuSign. Planning a CFW tour for tomorrow while I'm staying at Riviera, and was going to make a decision on signing the contract afterwards. The thing is....

Even with relatively so few declared one can swap into cabins at seven months. I just checked and seven months from today is 2/3 and it's wide open availability starting 1.31.

If that continues to be true, or becomes even more true (easier availability well within 7 months) with more declared inventory, then maybe I should just use my other points to hold/walk CFW reservations instead of locking in to a CFW contract. I was randomly checking availability at CFW a month ago and must have timed it right with an inventory release because I was suddenly able to book Thanksgiving week when the day before nothing was available in all of November.

I started the contract process because I want the guaranteed reservation for a week during the holidays at CFW, a favorite resort for me and mine (my dogs too!). But it's not clear to me whether successfully booking that week long December reservation (peak time) actually necessitates that guarantee via contract. Having been a December cash guest for 2 decades at the cabins, I know it's busy there and I know cabin availability can be sparse at that time. But, if I can get it at 7 months on my own....

 

[CastAStone]

I'm sitting on a Favorite Week #50 contract for CFW - just waiting for my DocuSign. Planning a CFW tour for tomorrow while I'm staying at Riviera, and was going to make a decision on signing the contract afterwards. The thing is....



If that continues to be true, or becomes even more true (easier availability well within 7 months) with more declared inventory, then maybe I should just use my other points to hold/walk CFW reservations instead of locking in to a CFW contract. I was randomly checking availability at CFW a month ago and must have timed it right with an inventory release because I was suddenly able to book Thanksgiving week when the day before nothing was available in all of November.

I started the contract process because I want the guaranteed reservation for a week during the holidays at CFW, a favorite resort for me and mine (my dogs too!). But it's not clear to me whether successfully booking that week long December reservation (peak time) actually necessitates that guarantee via contract. Having been a December cash guest for 2 decades at the cabins, I know it's busy there and I know cabin availability can be sparse at that time. But, if I can get it at 7 months on my own....

I think that your best course of action on cabins at Fort wilderness is probably to wait, see how seven month booking goes once it’s been open for a bit, and wait to see what better incentives they offer, because they have to offer better incentives than they are currently offering or they will never move anything.

It’s not going anywhere, you can still buy it later.

Just my unasked for $0.02.

 

[zavandor]

I'm sitting on a Favorite Week #50 contract for CFW - just waiting for my DocuSign. Planning a CFW tour for tomorrow while I'm staying at Riviera, and was going to make a decision on signing the contract afterwards. The thing is....



If that continues to be true, or becomes even more true (easier availability well within 7 months) with more declared inventory, then maybe I should just use my other points to hold/walk CFW reservations instead of locking in to a CFW contract. I was randomly checking availability at CFW a month ago and must have timed it right with an inventory release because I was suddenly able to book Thanksgiving week when the day before nothing was available in all of November.

I started the contract process because I want the guaranteed reservation for a week during the holidays at CFW, a favorite resort for me and mine (my dogs too!). But it's not clear to me whether successfully booking that week long December reservation (peak time) actually necessitates that guarantee via contract. Having been a December cash guest for 2 decades at the cabins, I know it's busy there and I know cabin availability can be sparse at that time. But, if I can get it at 7 months on my own....

Even if the cabins end up being available at 7 months, that doesn't guarantee that you can get one. I think competition will be fierce for a swap, they're the cheapest way to sleep 6 people in the whole DVC system, by far.
Also, this is right when there is the biggest gap between declared and purchased inventory. As more people will buy CFW, the peak periods (Christmas and Halloween) will have more members who can book the rooms. Also, because of the dues, who buys CFW is not after SAP, they'll buy because they think they'll stay there most if not all the time and the week you're looking for should be one of the highest in demand.
I think availability at 7 months will be good in the low season and impossible for Halloween and Christmas.

 

[MICKIMINI]

I think the lack of W/D was a huge mistake. My guide called when it first opened and he said there was no room for them. I won't waste my brainpower redoing the floorplan, but I have a background in interior design and construction (including the house we built last year) and there is always a way. Usually several ways. It obviously was not a priority.

I know I am not the only one who would not even consider the cabins for this reason. I do laundry each day and can't imagine a big family or even a small family with a baby dragging laundry around FW. Vacation is about convenience. Like buying a home, if there are enough things "wrong" (location, design, maintenance, taxes etc) you walk away without delving further. Each person that does not sit down with a guide is one less chance for a sale. The designers needed to look at the big picture but did not. Just my 2 cents!