Airlines limit "service animals" to dogs

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The reality is that people lie. It doesn't matter if the business asks, people will lie at best, make a huge scene at worst. Asking these 2 questions does NOTHING because as soon as a business says that they don't think that the dog is a service dog, the owner goes crazy, they don't just leave peacefully and "learn their lesson".
Well, it’s the best that can be done with the current laws that exist. I disagree completely with the law. I know people like to say that the service animal is an accommodation like a motility device. But that just makes no logical sense. A dog is a dog. A dog is an animal, that in most cases is a pet. Almost 40% of US households own a dog. I totally agree with service animals being allowed in (almost) all places. But to think that they shouldn’t have to be registered/have an ID like a drivers license makes absolutely no sense. But that’s where we are. And asking the questions allowed by law is the best we can do.
 
Service animal benefits are grossly over stated and most of the time, are not clinically approved.
 
Hey,
So I got locked out of my account after my last response the other day when I tried to change my email address. It said it was going to send me a confirmation email so I could log back in, and it never did. I just tried to logout and back in again just now, and somehow it's working again!

Anyway, I wanted to say that I really did not mean to upset anyone here with my posts or opinions, nor did I intend to make anyone feel like I wasn't listening to their perspective or not taking it seriously. I definitely do take all of this seriously, and those of you I've been corresponding to -- I fully admit that you have legit concerns and I don't want to dismiss those at all.

I think I was just trying to give my view from a service dog handler's perspective. All the points I've ended up making have been made in this forum over the years many times over by other handlers. Perhaps some people think the scenario has changed or invalidates these responses. I will not say you are wrong. My main disagreement is in regard to what constitutes a reasonable solution to the problems you (and I) have all mentioned. Differently from some of you, I don't think it's reasonable to require extra regulations or licenses from legitimate service dog teams as an answer. I don't have another suggestion to this, other than the things I've said previously, but I agree there are some difficult problems with some of the people claiming to be part of the service dog community, and this makes certain individuals feel like not enough is being done. I understand why you feel this way.

I hope some of the things I've said will at least be considered as well. I don't expect everyone to agree with me about my conclusions, only to be thoughtful that other people may have valid points as well.

Again, for anyone who feels I was not being appropriately empathetic or hearing you out, I'm terribly sorry as that was not my intention. Thank you for listening to my comment.
 
Hey,
So I got locked out of my account after my last response the other day when I tried to change my email address. It said it was going to send me a confirmation email so I could log back in, and it never did. I just tried to logout and back in again just now, and somehow it's working again!

Anyway, I wanted to say that I really did not mean to upset anyone here with my posts or opinions, nor did I intend to make anyone feel like I wasn't listening to their perspective or not taking it seriously. I definitely do take all of this seriously, and those of you I've been corresponding to -- I fully admit that you have legit concerns and I don't want to dismiss those at all.

I think I was just trying to give my view from a service dog handler's perspective. All the points I've ended up making have been made in this forum over the years many times over by other handlers. Perhaps some people think the scenario has changed or invalidates these responses. I will not say you are wrong. My main disagreement is in regard to what constitutes a reasonable solution to the problems you (and I) have all mentioned. Differently from some of you, I don't think it's reasonable to require extra regulations or licenses from legitimate service dog teams as an answer. I don't have another suggestion to this, other than the things I've said previously, but I agree there are some difficult problems with some of the people claiming to be part of the service dog community, and this makes certain individuals feel like not enough is being done. I understand why you feel this way.

I hope some of the things I've said will at least be considered as well. I don't expect everyone to agree with me about my conclusions, only to be thoughtful that other people may have valid points as well.

Again, for anyone who feels I was not being appropriately empathetic or hearing you out, I'm terribly sorry as that was not my intention. Thank you for listening to my comment.
Without a legal registration process, nothing will change. People will continue to lie and try to pass of their pets as service animals. A business asking those 2 questions does absolutely nothing. You can't have less abuse without a legal process to identify actual service dogs. It just can't happen. It is pointless to say that things have to change and then be unwilling to make those changes because of the "hassle".
 
Lilsia,
I think you have some really valid concerns, as I've already said, and I understand based on your statements, why you feel the way you do.

I do not expect you to agree with my opinions. However, you have been incredibly rude and hurtful in your choice of words and consistent repetition of the same points over and over and you extend no courtesy to others who also have a right to express themselves here.

You have not only done this to me, but have repeatedly corrected people who disagree with you through this entire thread, always saying the same thing. Your voice has been heard. I don't think anyone would not know what your opinion is. But your aggression and disrespectful way of speaking to people is really uncalled for. I would hope you would remember that you are not the arbiter of truth and everyone deserves respect and a chance to be heard here on this forum. I would also hope that you would remember that you are in the disabilities forum. I will speak only for myself, that I have serious mental illness as I've already said, and your demeanor is causing me true distress and flashbacks which I'm sure you do not intend. Please be kind.

Thank you.
 
Hey,
So I got locked out of my account after my last response the other day when I tried to change my email address. It said it was going to send me a confirmation email so I could log back in, and it never did. I just tried to logout and back in again just now, and somehow it's working again!

Anyway, I wanted to say that I really did not mean to upset anyone here with my posts or opinions, nor did I intend to make anyone feel like I wasn't listening to their perspective or not taking it seriously. I definitely do take all of this seriously, and those of you I've been corresponding to -- I fully admit that you have legit concerns and I don't want to dismiss those at all.

I think I was just trying to give my view from a service dog handler's perspective. All the points I've ended up making have been made in this forum over the years many times over by other handlers. Perhaps some people think the scenario has changed or invalidates these responses. I will not say you are wrong. My main disagreement is in regard to what constitutes a reasonable solution to the problems you (and I) have all mentioned. Differently from some of you, I don't think it's reasonable to require extra regulations or licenses from legitimate service dog teams as an answer. I don't have another suggestion to this, other than the things I've said previously, but I agree there are some difficult problems with some of the people claiming to be part of the service dog community, and this makes certain individuals feel like not enough is being done. I understand why you feel this way.

I hope some of the things I've said will at least be considered as well. I don't expect everyone to agree with me about my conclusions, only to be thoughtful that other people may have valid points as well.

Again, for anyone who feels I was not being appropriately empathetic or hearing you out, I'm terribly sorry as that was not my intention. Thank you for listening to my comment.
Beth——-
I’m just curious, why do you feel this way? I do not have a service dog, or know anyone with one, so this is just my layman’s opinion/observations. I have just a regular dog as a pet. There is a huge expense that goes along with having a regular dog as a pet. When I board my dog, not only is it expensive, but I have to provide all proof of shot records/immunizations/etc. My dog is not allowed in most businesses because it is not a service dog. I think that requiring a license for an animal/that provides a legitimate service is totally reasonable. When people compare a dog to a motility device, that makes no sense to me. A dog is not a wheelchair or a scooter or a rolator. Do you know who has motility devices? People who need them. Do you know who has dogs? About 40% of US households. That’s why it should be closely regulated. Again, I’m just curious why someone would feel it shouldn’t be regulated. I know that the law as it stands doesn’t allow for that, just wondering why it shouldn’t be changed.
 
Beth——-
I’m just curious, why do you feel this way? I do not have a service dog, or know anyone with one, so this is just my layman’s opinion/observations. I have just a regular dog as a pet. There is a huge expense that goes along with having a regular dog as a pet. When I board my dog, not only is it expensive, but I have to provide all proof of shot records/immunizations/etc. My dog is not allowed in most businesses because it is not a service dog. I think that requiring a license for an animal/that provides a legitimate service is totally reasonable. When people compare a dog to a motility device, that makes no sense to me. A dog is not a wheelchair or a scooter or a rolator. Do you know who has motility devices? People who need them. Do you know who has dogs? About 40% of US households. That’s why it should be closely regulated. Again, I’m just curious why someone would feel it shouldn’t be regulated. I know that the law as it stands doesn’t allow for that, just wondering why it shouldn’t be changed.
The expense, the red tape well known throughout the USA (my cousin applied for SSD for her toddler - who passed away before benefits were granted) and the discrimination that arises from it all. I'm training my Labrador retriever to assist me, and I'm not shelling out thousands of dollars to get her in a program that would train her. I know how to train her, and if she is able to meet my standards (which she's not even close to doing, but she's a puppy) I will be using her as a service animal when my PFD and other issues limit me. What exactly do you think I would need to do to get her licensed?
 


Beth——-
I’m just curious, why do you feel this way? I do not have a service dog, or know anyone with one, so this is just my layman’s opinion/observations. I have just a regular dog as a pet. There is a huge expense that goes along with having a regular dog as a pet. When I board my dog, not only is it expensive, but I have to provide all proof of shot records/immunizations/etc. My dog is not allowed in most businesses because it is not a service dog. I think that requiring a license for an animal/that provides a legitimate service is totally reasonable. When people compare a dog to a motility device, that makes no sense to me. A dog is not a wheelchair or a scooter or a rolator. Do you know who has motility devices? People who need them. Do you know who has dogs? About 40% of US households. That’s why it should be closely regulated. Again, I’m just curious why someone would feel it shouldn’t be regulated. I know that the law as it stands doesn’t allow for that, just wondering why it shouldn’t be changed.

Hi Disneychick13,
I just came back on to correct my previous post to Lilsia, but I am touched that you are asking why i feel the way I do and I would love to respond. Thank you so much for asking.

I've mentioned previously that the spirit of the ADA when it disallows documentation for service dogs, does so to not unfairly burden a disabled person that uses the SD. To require documentation is seen as making these service dog handlers second class citizens by requiring them to get permission to go into public, while no one else has to do that. The reason service dogs are equated to mobility devices despite being animals, is that their only purpose and reason they are allowed is to make it possible for these people to live their lives in a more equal way to the non-disabled. In this way, they are the same as any other medical device. They allow some to have a more equal experience in their lives to others by providing a way for them to function that they would not otherwise be able to have. Non-disabled people can freely come and go in public. Disabled people with medical devices are allowed to freely come and go in public. To then require that someone that uses a service dog for the same purpose to NOT be able to freely come and go in public (without showing proof/getting permission everywhere they go) is seen as discrimination because it is not equal treatment.

This is why the law reads as it does. It's a point that I agree with and feel very strongly both philosophically and personally.

As someone who is disabled by mental illness, and even moreso, my particular mental illnesses, I am discriminated against everywhere I go, service dog or not. I have been rejected by everyone I know, blamed for my illnesses that have literally been caused by other people in my life, and ridiculed when I try to set the record straight. No one tolerates me having any symptoms or acting naturally, as this disrupts other people's comfort and worldview that the world is safe and just. I am constantly corrected that I have no disabilities because it has been necessary to do my best to hide every aspect of myself. I struggle with never feeling seen, never being accepted in society, and people online and in my life trying to erase who I really am and not allowing me to express myself. I have daily flashbacks, constant suicidality and violent impulses and because I have dissociative identity disorder I am plagued by crowds of voices, emotions and experiences in my head of thousands of "other parts" of myself. Sometimes it comes in the form of hallucinations and delusions. No one wants me to exist. It is uncomfortable.

Because this is my personal experience, I believe that the potential for further service dog regulations (and showing proof to be allowed in public) has the potential to truly destroy any sense I have of being "okay" to exist or be treated like I am an equal to others in society. To be forced to get permission to even walk in to a grocery store, restaurant or shopping mall further ostracizes me and seems inhumane.

Of course, this particular explanation is only based on my personal experience and disability. Philosophically, I believe that other service dog handlers with different disabilities could also experience this as inhumane gate keeping that keeps them in a separate, "inferior" category than everybody else as well. All disability laws are specifically written to avoid this dilemma.

I don't expect my reasoning to resonate with everyone or change people's minds. Lilsia doesn't agree with me for one, and I don't want her or anyone else to feel like I'm negating their opposing opinions or saying they have to agree with me.

I wanted to come back on here to comment further to Lilisia that perhaps I am being unfair to her by saying she has been rude. Yes, I have been hurt because I felt I was not allowed to have a different opinion without it being called "pointless" or implied that I was an idiot for not seeing it her way. It felt like no matter how carefully I tried to explain myself or validate others' opinions, mine couldn't be left alone without being reminded that I was stupid for disagreeing. But I recognize I am sensitive to feeling unheard and erased and I would not want to be unfair. To Lilsia, if I have unfairly categorized you, I am truly sorry. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings.

I see that DisneyOma has replied since I've been writing this too, and I have no seen her post. Maybe this comment will be helpful to her as well. I'm truly sorry if I've upset or offended anyone.
 
The expense, the red tape well known throughout the USA (my cousin applied for SSD for her toddler - who passed away before benefits were granted) and the discrimination that arises from it all. I'm training my Labrador retriever to assist me, and I'm not shelling out thousands of dollars to get her in a program that would train her. I know how to train her, and if she is able to meet my standards (which she's not even close to doing, but she's a puppy) I will be using her as a service animal when my PFD and other issues limit me. What exactly do you think I would need to do to get her licensed?
So I guess what I would think that would be required, if there was such a provision, would be the following (and somewhat similar to getting a handicapped tag for a motor vehicle): application with the person’s name/address, the dog/breed/approx age/color. There would need to be a place on the application(though it need not show on the actual liscence) for the reason for obtaining the permit and then doctor/therapist/etc signature/address/liscence number. Proof of vaccinations would need to be shown. Then a picture Id with pet/applicant much like an ID card. That’s it. It would have to be government regulated of course. No need for approved standards/tests because I do think that could be overly burdensome. There would be fraud of course, but much less. Just my 2 cents.


Hi Disneychick13,
I just came back on to correct my previous post to Lilsia, but I am touched that you are asking why i feel the way I do and I would love to respond. Thank you so much for asking.

I've mentioned previously that the spirit of the ADA when it disallows documentation for service dogs, does so to not unfairly burden a disabled person that uses the SD. To require documentation is seen as making these service dog handlers second class citizens by requiring them to get permission to go into public, while no one else has to do that. The reason service dogs are equated to mobility devices despite being animals, is that their only purpose and reason they are allowed is to make it possible for these people to live their lives in a more equal way to the non-disabled. In this way, they are the same as any other medical device. They allow some to have a more equal experience in their lives to others by providing a way for them to function that they would not otherwise be able to have. Non-disabled people can freely come and go in public. Disabled people with medical devices are allowed to freely come and go in public. To then require that someone that uses a service dog for the same purpose to NOT be able to freely come and go in public (without showing proof/getting permission everywhere they go) is seen as discrimination because it is not equal treatment.

This is why the law reads as it does. It's a point that I agree with and feel very strongly both philosophically and personally.

As someone who is disabled by mental illness, and even moreso, my particular mental illnesses, I am discriminated against everywhere I go, service dog or not. I have been rejected by everyone I know, blamed for my illnesses that have literally been caused by other people in my life, and ridiculed when I try to set the record straight. No one tolerates me having any symptoms or acting naturally, as this disrupts other people's comfort and worldview that the world is safe and just. I am constantly corrected that I have no disabilities because it has been necessary to do my best to hide every aspect of myself. I struggle with never feeling seen, never being accepted in society, and people online and in my life trying to erase who I really am and not allowing me to express myself. I have daily flashbacks, constant suicidality and violent impulses and because I have dissociative identity disorder I am plagued by crowds of voices, emotions and experiences in my head of thousands of "other parts" of myself. Sometimes it comes in the form of hallucinations and delusions. No one wants me to exist. It is uncomfortable.

Because this is my personal experience, I believe that the potential for further service dog regulations (and showing proof to be allowed in public) has the potential to truly destroy any sense I have of being "okay" to exist or be treated like I am an equal to others in society. To be forced to get permission to even walk in to a grocery store, restaurant or shopping mall further ostracizes me and seems inhumane.

Of course, this particular explanation is only based on my personal experience and disability. Philosophically, I believe that other service dog handlers with different disabilities could also experience this as inhumane gate keeping that keeps them in a separate, "inferior" category than everybody else as well. All disability laws are specifically written to avoid this dilemma.

I don't expect my reasoning to resonate with everyone or change people's minds. Lilsia doesn't agree with me for one, and I don't want her or anyone else to feel like I'm negating their opposing opinions or saying they have to agree with me.

I wanted to come back on here to comment further to Lilisia that perhaps I am being unfair to her by saying she has been rude. Yes, I have been hurt because I felt I was not allowed to have a different opinion without it being called "pointless" or implied that I was an idiot for not seeing it her way. It felt like no matter how carefully I tried to explain myself or validate others' opinions, mine couldn't be left alone without being reminded that I was stupid for disagreeing. But I recognize I am sensitive to feeling unheard and erased and I would not want to be unfair. To Lilsia, if I have unfairly categorized you, I am truly sorry. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings.

I see that DisneyOma has replied since I've been writing this too, and I have no seen her post. Maybe this comment will be helpful to her as well. I'm truly sorry if I've upset or offended anyone.
And Beth, thank you for your insightful reply. I do see what you are saying even though I may not agree with you. I really do approve of service dogs, whatever service they provide, being allowed to travel with their companions. They clearly improve the quality of life for so many people. Whenever I see someone with a dog in public (where most dogs can’t go) I assume they are needed in some way. As long as they are well behaved it doesn’t bother me at all. No judgement here.
 
So I guess what I would think that would be required, if there was such a provision, would be the following (and somewhat similar to getting a handicapped tag for a motor vehicle): application with the person’s name/address, the dog/breed/approx age/color. There would need to be a place on the application(though it need not show on the actual liscence) for the reason for obtaining the permit and then doctor/therapist/etc signature/address/liscence number. Proof of vaccinations would need to be shown. Then a picture Id with pet/applicant much like an ID card. That’s it. It would have to be government regulated of course. No need for approved standards/tests because I do think that could be overly burdensome. There would be fraud of course, but much less. Just my 2 cents.
Doctor's approval is not needed for service dogs in the US, nor for wheelchair, ECV, rollator use. Should people have to get a permit to use an ECV at WDW?
 
Doctor's approval is not needed for service dogs in the US, nor for wheelchair, ECV, rollator use. Should people have to get a permit to use an ECV at WDW?
You need doctor‘s approval for a handicapped tag. Why? Because lots of people would like the close spots at a grocery store/ amusement park/etc. The permits ensure that the spots aren’t abused by those who don’t need it. Same goes for a service dog. Lots of people would like to bring their pets to an amusement park/ department store/etc. But they can’t. Wheelchairs/rollators/ECV use is not “abused”. No one wants to use them except those who need them. There is no benefit to having them/using them unless you need to. No one owns those devices except those who need them. Lots of people own cars and dogs. It is ripe for abuse. There is a benefit to bringing your dog places dogs can’t normally go. There is not equal access to bringing your pets wherever you want. That’s why I believe a permit should be required. I am aware that that is not the case. Just arguing why I think it makes sense.
 
Lilsia,
I think you have some really valid concerns, as I've already said, and I understand based on your statements, why you feel the way you do.

I do not expect you to agree with my opinions. However, you have been incredibly rude and hurtful in your choice of words and consistent repetition of the same points over and over and you extend no courtesy to others who also have a right to express themselves here.

You have not only done this to me, but have repeatedly corrected people who disagree with you through this entire thread, always saying the same thing. Your voice has been heard. I don't think anyone would not know what your opinion is. But your aggression and disrespectful way of speaking to people is really uncalled for. I would hope you would remember that you are not the arbiter of truth and everyone deserves respect and a chance to be heard here on this forum. I would also hope that you would remember that you are in the disabilities forum. I will speak only for myself, that I have serious mental illness as I've already said, and your demeanor is causing me true distress and flashbacks which I'm sure you do not intend. Please be kind.

Thank you.
What I am saying is not just my "opinion", it is the reality of things. If you see that has hurtful, there is nothing that I can do about that. I get what you are saying and how you believe things should be, but that is not reality in the world that we live in. You can't put the onus on the businesses like that and expect that it is going to make any difference. This has to come from some kind of government regulations that are enforced. Your thinking of "if only the businesses asked those 2 questions and weeded all of the fakers out, things would be great", is not reality.
And I guess you are now the ultimate Disboards moderator to tell others that they can not post now? Just because someone does not agree with you, doesn't mean that they can not post. I think that you are just salty because you know that what I, and others that have said the same thing, is true. And I have never ONCE told you not to post your counter argument.
 
This seems to be a good time to remind everyone that "tone of voice" can be very hard to recognize in written posts. I sometimes have to stop myself and think: is it possible I'm misinterpreting? And sometimes I find that I just need to take a break from a thread.

Since we've ventured away from the airlines discussion of the OP I will close this.
 
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