Airlines limit "service animals" to dogs

[DisneyOma]

Nothing erodes trust in the system more than someone with a "service dog" that must be drug, literally, by the leash.

Did you mean drugged, or dragged? Either one would work, IMO, but that shouldn't ever happen to a dog. Just flew back from Texas, where I was helping my daughter's family for a few weeks. Saw a few 'service dogs" at the airport, including one that was jumping up on everyone as it was being walked. It was ridiculous. But there was a very well behaved kitten on the flight, a rescue being delivered to its new owner.

 

[paisleys]

Did you mean drugged, or dragged? Either one would work, IMO, but that shouldn't ever happen to a dog. Just flew back from Texas, where I was helping my daughter's family for a few weeks. Saw a few 'service dogs" at the airport, including one that was jumping up on everyone as it was being walked. It was ridiculous. But there was a very well behaved kitten on the flight, a rescue being delivered to its new owner.

One of the moms from my kids' sports team has a service dog that I have complete doubts about. She drags this poor dog everywhere and it kills me. We were at a crowded event last summer, people screaming and cheering and it was 90 degrees (south Florida) and humid out. The poor dog looked disheveled and unwell. She had him at another crowded school event and he was barking at us to pet him. She has also told us that when she takes his vest off, that he knows he is no longer working and that's why he barks and rolls around. I am no expert but I don't think actual service dogs behave this way. Nice lady, adore her sweet daughter but I have to grit my teeth around her and sometimes just walk away.

 

[lanejudy]

In addition to not having a government agency in place to oversee registrations of service dogs, to my understanding part of the reason for not have a national registry is that it would/could be an extra financial burden on the disabled community - some of whom have little funds to spare. Now when talking about flying to WDW, obviously there are extra discretionary funds; but the rules apply across the board and could severely hamper a person's ability to take a service dog into a place of business within their own community.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

That is why you have the test administered by a legitimate agency, like the humane society or a vet. Then that paperwork is turned into the government, they then send out the certification. This is not someone printing stuff up on the internet. If they can do this with handicapped placards, I don't see why it would be that difficult to do with service animals. Of course, this would have to come down through the Federal Gov't agency and the law would need to be put in that all service dogs need to be tested and certified. It really is not as hard and complicated as you are making it out to be. They figured it out with car placards, driver's licenses, etc.

but IDs can be faked even government ones and as I said what happens when like DL it is not accepted as an ID for drinks have to have a passport. yes it will happen if started. I have seen happen with placards and other things being faked. same with doctor notes. my house pet dog would pass your command test but she is not a service dog. what would stop me from taking her to be tested at humane society saying I trained her myself to alert on whatever. she passes command test and self training is allowed and you can not show alerting if that is not happening at that time. self training of service dogs is allowed

 

[Lilsia]

but IDs can be faked even government ones and as I said what happens when like DL it is not accepted as an ID for drinks have to have a passport. yes it will happen if started. I have seen happen with placards and other things being faked. same with doctor notes. my house pet dog would pass your command test but she is not a service dog. what would stop me from taking her to be tested at humane society saying I trained her myself to alert on whatever. she passes command test and self training is allowed and you can not show alerting if that is not happening at that time. self training of service dogs is allowed

Nothing would stop you other then the fact that it would be a crime to lie to a Federal agency. Those usually have stiff penalties. You are looking at the situation as it is now. I am saying what it COULD be if our elected officials actually did their jobs properly instead of acting like a bunch of junior high kids with their "clicks". It is disgraceful how these people act.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

Nothing would stop you other then the fact that it would be a crime to lie to a Federal agency. Those usually have stiff penalties. You are looking at the situation as it is now. I am saying what it COULD be if our elected officials actually did their jobs properly instead of acting like a bunch of junior high kids with their "clicks". It is disgraceful how these people act.

so appears nothing would change with your plan if someone felt they wanted to lie. government is not going to make it harder on disabled to take their animals where they need to go.

 

[mamabunny]

So... we have hit that point wherein we have a circular discussion going on...

It seems like we can all agree that "abuse" of the service animal "system" (such as it currently is in the US) is not only rampant, but wrong. Should someone be allowed to pass off a pampered pet as a working service animal? No. It's a clear abuse of the intent *and* spirit of the law.

It also seems like we can all agree that we don't want rules or regulations that will place an undue burden on disabled folks, from a financial - or even a "proof" of training standpoint - that might cause the disabled (in general) to have to spend money (on anything from travel, to special licensing to marking/identification devices for the service animal) that able-bodied people are not required to seek or spend, and those who seek to use an "emotional support animal" are not required to seek or spend.

It is evident that under the current rules & regulations that we have in this country (relative to the ADA, *not* the ACAA (Air Carriers Access Act) that there needs to be stricter, or more definitive legal language regarding what constitutes a "service animal", and the protections under US law that designation would provide. The airlines themselves need to work with both the FAA & TSA to develop a cohesive, unified plan for (1) defining what constitutes a "service animal" and (2) regulations regarding expectations of "Service animals", "emotional support animals" and then the catch-all category of "pets", as well as expected documentation, behavior by the animal, etc.

Is it sad that we have to divide and conquer via 2 different systems (the ADA & the ACAA) to get this fraud and abuse shut down? Of course it is. Those who are wealthy and self-entitled enough to want to travel with their pets thought they found a loophole that could be easily exploited, without any pushback from the airlines (or any other place they wanted to take their pets, including but not limited to grocery stores, gyms, theme parks, and of course airports/airline flights.)

The only way this changes *meaningfully* is with feedback from all of us who are directly affected by the fraud and abuse that has threatened to overwhelm the very meaning of the term "service animal". When Congress convenes it's session in the new year, we ALL need to reach out to our respective congress-persons and let them know *why* it's important to make the distinction between a true service animal and any other animal. We need to make it clear that there is no need for new legislation to be passed, but there is a great need to make the existing definitions and regulatory statues in the ADA more stringent and transparent, and via the FAA and the ACAA to urge all US airlines to adopt a single, unified plan that all airlines will be willing to enforce.

It will take all of us, speaking in a unified voice to make ourselves heard. There's a lot of noise these days that can stand between us and our elected representatives. Each one of us can do our part as citizens to make our elected officials hear our voices. Write, call, or email your congressional representation - you don't have leave home to make your voice heard.

/end rant /end soapbox

 

[Lilsia]

So... we have hit that point wherein we have a circular discussion going on...

It seems like we can all agree that "abuse" of the service animal "system" (such as it currently is in the US) is not only rampant, but wrong. Should someone be allowed to pass off a pampered pet as a working service animal? No. It's a clear abuse of the intent *and* spirit of the law.

It also seems like we can all agree that we don't want rules or regulations that will place an undue burden on disabled folks, from a financial - or even a "proof" of training standpoint - that might cause the disabled (in general) to have to spend money (on anything from travel, to special licensing to marking/identification devices for the service animal) that able-bodied people are not required to seek or spend, and those who seek to use an "emotional support animal" are not required to seek or spend.

It is evident that under the current rules & regulations that we have in this country (relative to the ADA, *not* the ACAA (Air Carriers Access Act) that there needs to be stricter, or more definitive legal language regarding what constitutes a "service animal", and the protections under US law that designation would provide. The airlines themselves need to work with both the FAA & TSA to develop a cohesive, unified plan for (1) defining what constitutes a "service animal" and (2) regulations regarding expectations of "Service animals", "emotional support animals" and then the catch-all category of "pets", as well as expected documentation, behavior by the animal, etc.

Is it sad that we have to divide and conquer via 2 different systems (the ADA & the ACAA) to get this fraud and abuse shut down? Of course it is. Those who are wealthy and self-entitled enough to want to travel with their pets thought they found a loophole that could be easily exploited, without any pushback from the airlines (or any other place they wanted to take their pets, including but not limited to grocery stores, gyms, theme parks, and of course airports/airline flights.)

The only way this changes *meaningfully* is with feedback from all of us who are directly affected by the fraud and abuse that has threatened to overwhelm the very meaning of the term "service animal". When Congress convenes it's session in the new year, we ALL need to reach out to our respective congress-persons and let them know *why* it's important to make the distinction between a true service animal and any other animal. We need to make it clear that there is no need for new legislation to be passed, but there is a great need to make the existing definitions and regulatory statues in the ADA more stringent and transparent, and via the FAA and the ACAA to urge all US airlines to adopt a single, unified plan that all airlines will be willing to enforce.

It will take all of us, speaking in a unified voice to make ourselves heard. There's a lot of noise these days that can stand between us and our elected representatives. Each one of us can do our part as citizens to make our elected officials hear our voices. Write, call, or email your congressional representation - you don't have leave home to make your voice heard.

/end rant /end soapbox

I disagree that there shouldn't be some kind of testing and regulations. The whole just "taking their word for it" does NOT work. Anyone can just lie, and that is why there are so many that do so. Even with the clarification that you say that you want, people will still just lie about it so it will change nothing. Many people get their service dog from an agency. There could be rules in place that the agency gets the dog certified before it is sold/given to someone. Those who "self train", well then they will just have to go and get it certified. Either way, there is always a price to having a service dog, or any pet for that matter. That is an unavoidable fact. Many cities have services that help pay for those things for those who can not afford it. This is such a minor cost/inconvenience when you look at the whole life span of an animal that I think the benefits out way any "inconvenience". Other Countries have regulations that work just fine, I don't see why we can't evolve and have them here.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

I disagree that there shouldn't be some kind of testing and regulations. The whole just "taking their word for it" does NOT work. Anyone can just lie, and that is why there are so many that do so. Even with the clarification that you say that you want, people will still just lie about it so it will change nothing. Many people get their service dog from an agency. There could be rules in place that the agency gets the dog certified before it is sold/given to someone. Those who "self train", well then they will just have to go and get it certified. Either way, there is always a price to having a service dog, or any pet for that matter. That is an unavoidable fact. Many cities have services that help pay for those things for those who can not afford it. This is such a minor cost/inconvenience when you look at the whole life span of an animal that I think the benefits out way any "inconvenience". Other Countries have regulations that work just fine, I don't see why we can't evolve and have them here.

long story short have family that is looking at service dog for an member of family, they have already found someone on internet willing to train/certify a family pet as a service dog. and for a lot less than a trained dog. their main selling point is landlords must accept and cant refuse. they are not requiring any doctor info as to need. if someone really wants it will still be doable need or not. and this was just before new rules came out and yes they are still thinking about doing but as I say doctor has suggested service dog for the person. they are low income and this is the only help they have found so far.

 

[Lilsia]

long story short have family that is looking at service dog for an member of family, they have already found someone on internet willing to train/certify a family pet as a service dog. and for a lot less than a trained dog. their main selling point is landlords must accept and cant refuse. they are not requiring any doctor info as to need. if someone really wants it will still be doable need or not. and this was just before new rules came out and yes they are still thinking about doing but as I say doctor has suggested service dog for the person. they are low income and this is the only help they have found so far.

And you are describing the exact scenario why there needs to be legislation and licensing for service dogs. LOL It is getting humorous how you keep "defending" the point.

 

[lanejudy]

there needs to be legislation and licensing for service dogs.

It sounds simple. Just curious what federal government department you would put in charge of this endeavor? Considering that in many areas dog licensing fees are waived for service animals, what revenue stream do you propose will pay for this?

Currently, dog-licensing varies state-to-state, county-to-county or even town-to-town throughout the country. In some places you can get a license through the Humane Society or your vet, other places it's the town clerk, State Dept of Agriculture, county dog catcher, Department of Licenses, etc. While it sounds simple -- just require a license and registration -- look at the boondoggle that has taken years to get drivers' licenses standardized into 1 system (REAL ID) in this country. Unfortunately, it would not be a simple undertaking and likely would lead to years of confusion as well as massive expense.

I agree the current system is prone to fraud. I just don't know how to make it better without creating extra challenges and expenses for the disabled.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

And you are describing the exact scenario why there needs to be legislation and licensing for service dogs. LOL It is getting humorous how you keep "defending" the point.

they are saying they would provide all you would need to get that. I just do not see it happening no matter how much you want it and it will not be as easy as you want it to be. just as funny how you keep wanting it to change when it does not appear to be happening

 

[DisneyOma]

I believe the ACAA is limiting to dogs as they have had numerous bizarre, unsafe animals labeled "service animals". Hasn't the ADA labeled only dogs and miniature horses as acceptable for service animals? If the ACAA wants to ban the emotional support animals because they also are getting out of control, that's what happens when people try to abuse the system. So, only dogs as service animals, because where would a miniature horse even fit on a plane, and rethink the emotional support animal.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

It sounds simple. Just curious what federal government department you would put in charge of this endeavor? Considering that in many areas dog licensing fees are waived for service animals, what revenue stream do you propose will pay for this?

Currently, dog-licensing varies state-to-state, county-to-county or even town-to-town throughout the country. In some places you can get a license through the Humane Society or your vet, other places it's the town clerk, State Dept of Agriculture, county dog catcher, Department of Licenses, etc. While it sounds simple -- just require a license and registration -- look at the boondoggle that has taken years to get drivers' licenses standardized into 1 system (REAL ID) in this country. Unfortunately, it would not be a simple undertaking and likely would lead to years of confusion as well as massive expense.

I agree the current system is prone to fraud. I just don't know how to make it better without creating extra challenges and expenses for the disabled.

in my state you get your dog license at any pet store, vet clinic not sure about Humane Society and when you adopt a dog it is a different fee and a second check last I knew. wish there was a simple answer but there is not one

 

[Lilsia]

It sounds simple. Just curious what federal government department you would put in charge of this endeavor? Considering that in many areas dog licensing fees are waived for service animals, what revenue stream do you propose will pay for this?

Currently, dog-licensing varies state-to-state, county-to-county or even town-to-town throughout the country. In some places you can get a license through the Humane Society or your vet, other places it's the town clerk, State Dept of Agriculture, county dog catcher, Department of Licenses, etc. While it sounds simple -- just require a license and registration -- look at the boondoggle that has taken years to get drivers' licenses standardized into 1 system (REAL ID) in this country. Unfortunately, it would not be a simple undertaking and likely would lead to years of confusion as well as massive expense.

I agree the current system is prone to fraud. I just don't know how to make it better without creating extra challenges and expenses for the disabled.

That would come down to individual States or even Counties. Just like pet licensing. Any vet can test for the requirements and take the licensing fee to send to the State. Then your paperwork would come through the mail. It might not be "easy" but is is doable and we have reached the point where it has become necessary. I believe something like what the UK does would work here too. They have 3 recognized agencies that all service dogs must test at and they provide the certification. Australia has a similar method and people have to qualify in order to receive a service animal. These are two comparable Countries that are able to control and handle the owning, training, and registering of service animals.

 

[mamabunny]

That would come down to individual States or even Counties. Just like pet licensing. Any vet can test for the requirements and take the licensing fee to send to the State. Then your paperwork would come through the mail. It might not be "easy" but is is doable and we have reached the point where it has become necessary. I believe something like what the UK does would work here too. They have 3 recognized agencies that all service dogs must test at and they provide the certification. Australia has a similar method and people have to qualify in order to receive a service animal. These are two comparable Countries that are able to control and handle the owning, training, and registering of service animals.

I don't disagree with your basic premise, but like others here, I do not see an easy path to that type of certification.

Just starting with *basic* things for handicapped people - like disabled parking - you still have 50 different States that have 50 different forms & 50 different procedures to get the plate/placard/hangtag for your vehicle. Not to mention multiple different costs, and methods of payment across those 50 states as well.

If we follow the logic that you have set forth, then we should also have a single, national form, and set of requirements, and payment/payment process for a handicapped plate/placard/hangtag for vehicles. Sounds great on paper, right?

Problem is, in the US that's not how our governing systems are set up. We *do* have the ADA, which is set forth by our federal (national level) government, right? That's law that codifies how disabled people will be treated, and what accommodations and modifications they can expect in "public" places. But it's up to every state, county, and city to make sure that those criteria in the ADA are met via building and business permits and plans, as well as code enforcement officers.

No one from the federal government goes around to every store, every restaurant, every hotel, every library, every school, etc. to inspect and make sure that those buildings and venues are handicapped accessible, and have appropriate parking as well as modifications to the building to allow handicapped users equal access. That falls squarely on the shoulders of local officials. Those folks are the ones who have to make sure that the ramps are sloped correctly, the bathroom stalls wide enough, and the auto door buttons are at the right height.

As @lanejudy said, it has taken us a *long* time just to get to RealID. The big push for *that* started after 9/11, and we are just now close to having all states on board. And even so, how the states rolled it out to their citizens, and when, was no where near consistent across the nation; Oklahoma, where I live, is still struggling to get it implemented state-wide as I write this.

Please don't misunderstand - I want to see national standards for service animals as much as you do. But realistically speaking, that may not happen for a long time. Even the airlines, which are all tied together under the ACAA umbrella don't necessarily have exactly the same rules for animals that travel, although United & Jet Blue today announced that they were proposing the creation of a unified solution.

If - and it's a big if - you could get the ADA amended to be more detailed and direct about the requirements and expectations of service animals (including what *species* of animal is "acceptable") that would be a huge step forward. That would give all 50 states the framework they need to start enforcing those rules.

 

[Disneyfan754321]

Maybe they should not charge 125 each way, maybe some of these people would not try and cheat the system. I have never taken my pet on the airline before but we looked into it. The pet fee was more than our RT ticket.

 

[Lilsia]

I don't disagree with your basic premise, but like others here, I do not see an easy path to that type of certification.

Just starting with *basic* things for handicapped people - like disabled parking - you still have 50 different States that have 50 different forms & 50 different procedures to get the plate/placard/hangtag for your vehicle. Not to mention multiple different costs, and methods of payment across those 50 states as well.

If we follow the logic that you have set forth, then we should also have a single, national form, and set of requirements, and payment/payment process for a handicapped plate/placard/hangtag for vehicles. Sounds great on paper, right?

Problem is, in the US that's not how our governing systems are set up. We *do* have the ADA, which is set forth by our federal (national level) government, right? That's law that codifies how disabled people will be treated, and what accommodations and modifications they can expect in "public" places. But it's up to every state, county, and city to make sure that those criteria in the ADA are met via building and business permits and plans, as well as code enforcement officers.

No one from the federal government goes around to every store, every restaurant, every hotel, every library, every school, etc. to inspect and make sure that those buildings and venues are handicapped accessible, and have appropriate parking as well as modifications to the building to allow handicapped users equal access. That falls squarely on the shoulders of local officials. Those folks are the ones who have to make sure that the ramps are sloped correctly, the bathroom stalls wide enough, and the auto door buttons are at the right height.

As @lanejudy said, it has taken us a *long* time just to get to RealID. The big push for *that* started after 9/11, and we are just now close to having all states on board. And even so, how the states rolled it out to their citizens, and when, was no where near consistent across the nation; Oklahoma, where I live, is still struggling to get it implemented state-wide as I write this.

Please don't misunderstand - I want to see national standards for service animals as much as you do. But realistically speaking, that may not happen for a long time. Even the airlines, which are all tied together under the ACAA umbrella don't necessarily have exactly the same rules for animals that travel, although United & Jet Blue today announced that they were proposing the creation of a unified solution.

If - and it's a big if - you could get the ADA amended to be more detailed and direct about the requirements and expectations of service animals (including what *species* of animal is "acceptable") that would be a huge step forward. That would give all 50 states the framework they need to start enforcing those rules.

No, it probably won't be "easy", but it is necessary. And that is the point. Not being easy is not a valid reason to not have it at all. We need it to stop the abuse and ridiculousness that this has become. This will be a benefit to everyone, especially those with legitimate service animals. I imagine if you asked those people, most would happily have some kind of certification and licensing to weed out the fake ones.

 

[Evita_W]

"The Transportation Department issued a final rule Wednesday covering animals on airlines. It decided that only dogs can fly as service animals, and companions that passengers use for emotional support don't count. "

I wonder if this is the first step to further regulating/licensing service animals.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/...ZPAMgpToQbH5mhe8x_YPMToMukiRKMYgUGEd_TmBdtDx8

This has long been the rule, comfort animals and service animals are different and have different rules. There are many issues with regulating/licensing service animals that would need to be overcome, not just abuse, but the expense it would add for many that are extremely low income to begin with. Remember, legally you can owner train a service animal and as it should be considering how much those that train service animals tend to charge. Seriously, after all costs you are often looking at $5,000-$10,000 in many cases. How would someone on disability ever afford that?

 

[Evita_W]

No, it probably won't be "easy", but it is necessary. And that is the point. Not being easy is not a valid reason to not have it at all. We need it to stop the abuse and ridiculousness that this has become. This will be a benefit to everyone, especially those with legitimate service animals. I imagine if you asked those people, most would happily have some kind of certification and licensing to weed out the fake ones.

See my previous post for why this is an issue, a lot comes down to cost.