Airline Travel, Especially When Special Needs Children May Be Involved

Yes, I jumped in but didn't want to engage in an "argument". I was a bit shocked. Once I saw that two of the kids had a disability, I knew it was not going to be a pleasant, supportive thread.

We have thought about our ASD son not being able to handle the flying, and not having an option to take him off, plus would he refuse to get on the plane for the flight home. That certainly could have been the case on the SW flight - if you can't explain the ears, the butterflies, the pressure changes, then how can he handle it?

It's sad that people are so eager to pile on. But if you've been reading lately, there is the tendency of SOME people to put their own needs above all else. Like, I HOPE lots of people have to cancel because they can't afford it - that's more room/less crowds for me, etc. etc.

At least we all have each other, right? :grouphug:
 
I am part of that thread.

Based on the video and other articles about the story, we are not talking about a child being loud, or hand flapping, or just being disruptive. From the mother's account, multiple children were running around the plane. This is a safety concern both for the children and for the other passengers. There is a huge difference between the two. In the first case, I would very upset with any airline that kicked off the family and would defend the children/family to anyone who would suggest that the child/family not be allowed to fly. With some children on the spectrum, these actions are not controllable. In the second scenario (where safety is a concern), I have to support the airline.

Now, none of us was on that flight so we don't know exactly what the children were doing or how SW handled it prior to refusing to board the family on the connecting flight. However, when the children's mother admits that the children were out of control and running around, I have to think that safety was a concern.
 
Well, crashbb I started the thread on the Transportation Board so apparently I am even worse than you. ;)

I invite anyone reading here to read that thread, especially the references to safety. As someone who has been in several near crashes, I will always be convinced that safety is of primary consideration.

The reality is that unless someone here was on that flight, was the family in question, or works for SW, they do not have all the details. All the information we have to date is what the mother herself volunteered - that her children were not in control.

Unrestrained passengers do pose a safety risk; I posted about an aborted landing I had last year due to an unrestrained child. Ultimately, safety does take priority on an aircraft.

And had there been turbulence, sadly this story could have had a very different and much worse outcome.
 
Honestly, I would never attempt to fly with my two kids. Both are on the spectrum. The older one I could explain things to, but she may still have a hysterical crying meltdown (but at least she would probably stay in her seat). My younger one is nonverbal and is cognitively at about 6 - 18 months, so she wouldn't understand anything and also start screaming. I don't think I would subject my fellow passengers to that!

We ended up booking the AutoTrain down to WDW. It cost more than the 5 days we are staying at WDW! But it is worth the extra cost to us, we even got a sleeper room so the kids could have a place to regroup.

It was a good thing we didn't fly. We would have flown out of our small regional airport and JetBlue ended up cancelling 1 of the 2 daily flights to Florida! Our flight probably would have been cancelled!
 
OP, I have had the utmost of respect for SueM in MN over the years. I may be mistaken, but I believe that she is the moderator for this board.

I won't quote her post here, but her response in the thread on the Community Board is well reasoned and well though out, and may not be what one expected based on her position (but is what I expected from her based on her past well-reasoned and balanced posts)

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1878163&page=7

This is not an 'us' vs 'them' situation which this thread makes it appear. Most of the regular posters on the Transportation Board tend to avoid emotion and discuss facts and regulations.
 
We may not have all the facts but the mother said her kids were "out of control". Two of the 4 kids didn't have any stated disabilities.

My guess is the mother had more then she could handle.

The posters on the other thread don't agree with you. Most of us interpert the situation differently then you do. Nothing to be sad about, just a difference of opinion. At first some of us thought you were actually on the flight, and were basing your opinion on first hand information.
 


Bookwormde, while I feel that some responses indicate a lack of information about autism, I have to say, as a parent of a child with ASD....her behavior can't be allowed to interfere with the safety of others. When Zoe is having a meltdown, there really is no reasoning with her, or calming her, the way I can our "normal" daughter. Thank God we don't have to fly anywhere with her. We drive everywhere.

I haven't viewed the video, so I can't comment on the flight or the family. Maybe they had no other options than to fly. I feel sorry for the family, because with an ASD child, you constantly have to monitor their sensory condition, and try the best you can to avoid triggers. But the bigger concern is the safety of everyone on the plane.
 
:confused3
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1878194

Another sad thread and it is on DIS

Just though you might want to see some of the comments from some of our fellow DIS members

I know we do not have all the info but people’s reactions are still sad

bookwormde


What would you like? The endangerment of the child with autism? The endangerment of the entire plane?

I symphatize with the mother. I have a friend with a child who has a severe case of autism. He is non verbal, he has behavioral problems and so on. However, I somehow doubt that she would want his life to be endangered when they fly? Yes, there have been flights with him and yes there have been some interesting scenes but he was not allowed to endanger himself or others. Prohibiting that is the job of parents. And just because you are a parent of a disabled child you don't get to abdicate that responsiblity. If anything you become MORE responsible because you realize that your child may not have the skill sets needed.

I have worked with disabled children. I would have been negligent to allow them to endanger themselves, me or other children. In that case I would have deserved to be sued.

So would you have us just let children do whatever they want because "they are disabled" If we don't protect them shouldn't we be considered negligent?

:confused3

Your posts seem to indicate that since this child has a problem he/she should just be allowed to do whatever??? Are you the parent of a child with autism? Is this your approach? If so I am truly concerned. Your childs safety should ALWAYS come first. If that means it's not a fun flight that means it isn't a fun flight. Yes, that may mean you have to physically restrain the child... but think of the alternative. A small child flying through a steel tube going 300 MPH. When that child hits something it's not going to be pretty!

What's sad is this view that it was OK for the mother to abdicate and that it became SW's responsiblity to care for her children!
 
My apologies, I posted what was an unkind/mean/uninformed response. I did apologize on that thread but let me apologize to my DISabilities friends here also. In reviewing my post, I realized that I based my response based on the high functioning autistic people in my family. I did not want to remove or edit my post, because it was what I posted and it would disrupt another post that referred to it. Here are boths posts in full. My apologies again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharadoc
My son has an Autism Disorder, and I have NO IDEA how he'll react to flying, and I don't think he'll comprehend it all. This is my greatest fear - that he'll freak out, make a commotion, or something like that.

Of course when I read this, I wondered exactly what the disruptive behaviour was and I was sympathetic to the issue. People are still really uninformed about autism and consider our kids to be badly behaved. When mine was younger, I had a woman in Home Depot come up to me and ask "What's wrong with him?" when my son was freaking out at my husband taking him inside the store when I stayed outside in the lawn center.

That's all I need in a closed airplane 30,000 feet in the air! And based on past experience, and the reactions in this thread, I would expect that no one would be sympathetic, they'll look at him like the devil himself and how dare I let him behave that way!

Sad but true, but driving trips are one of his favorites, so I'm sure he'll be great in the van and even greater in WDW!



I think people are more understanding than what you may see here in this situation. This woman had FOUR children out of control--not just the one with autism or the one with CP. I think when people see parents TRYING they have an entirely different attitude than when the parents just kinda ignore the situation (like this woman apparently did--the kids were excited).

I alos think that a parent like yourself, who obviously has thought this out, would be prepared to deal with your child. I loved the part where the mom talks about the autistic child's short attention span and wonder---so why didn't you bring things to engage him?

Or seeing the five months pregnant woman preparing her cigarette, or the child who was holding what looked like some kind of animal/hermit crab thing on his lap or the mom admitting the children were out of control





Bella1962

If you had a more accurate and complete understanding of the Autism spectrum you would understand that it is not as simple as keeping them engaged.

bookwormde
Thank you. You are correct that I am not that familiar with all degrees on the spectrum and my remark to keep him engaged may not have been an accurate reflection of how to handle that particular child--they are all so unique with their own needs. I'll try to be more careful in the future.
 
Autism, CP, deafness, physical disability is not an excuse to allow your children to run about an airplane out of control. I have a daughter on the spectrum and have worked with children with different disabilities including autism and under no circumstances would we allow them to behavior in a manner dangerous to themselves or others. My daughter would be removed from the situation until her behavior was under control. I have a lot of compassion for parents of children with autism but I draw the line at putting people in danger.
SW was right in not allowing them to continue their flight until they were able to be controlled. I would rather have a child seatbelted in a seat and crying than running in the aisles of a plane and possibly hurting themself or another person. It apparently was not only her disabled children but all her children who were posing a problem.
The whole point is: Does an airline have the right to refuse passage of children who are not under control and pose a potential danger to others on the plane as well as themselves. Forget whether the child has a disability or not. That is not the point.
 
I don't want this thread to become just another of the threads of "us" and "them".
If it continues nice, it will continue to be open. If not - not.

I'd suggest rather than discussing something where we don't have a lot of facts, we use the opportunity to discuss things that might be helpful or constructive for people planning a first plane trip for someone with a disability.
 
I don't want this thread to become just another of the threads of "us" and "them".
If it continues nice, it will continue to be open. If not - not.

I'd suggest rather than discussing something where we don't have a lot of facts, we use the opportunity to discuss things that might be helpful or constructive for people planning a first plane trip for someone with a disability.
Good idea Sue.
Some of the things my daughter took on her first airplane flight besides her viola (she was with a group of Suzuki students) were some games, ViewMaster, a book (avid reader), her teddy and some paper and crayons.
We also explained what would happen before the flight as she was not flying with us but with her teacher and other chaperones.
I think making a book showing what will happen for the non-verbal child can be very helpful.
Maybe a trip to the airport to see the planes, security, etc.
Role playing going through security, getting on the plane and putting on the seat belt, etc.
Making sure the child is well rested before the trip as well as the parents.
Preparing for delays or stop overs. (my daughters, original flight home would have possibly been diverted to another airport due to a hurricane we were expecting. The teacher and chaperones decided that rather than get diverted, to remain in the city where they were and come back a day later when the hurricane had passed. They felt it would be more comfortable for the children.)
 
Good idea Sue.
Some of the things my daughter took on her first airplane flight besides her viola (she was with a group of Suzuki students) were some games, ViewMaster, a book (avid reader), her teddy and some paper and crayons.
We also explained what would happen before the flight as she was not flying with us but with her teacher and other chaperones.
I think making a book showing what will happen for the non-verbal child can be very helpful.
Maybe a trip to the airport to see the planes, security, etc.
Role playing going through security, getting on the plane and putting on the seat belt, etc.
Making sure the child is well rested before the trip as well as the parents.
Preparing for delays or stop overs. (my daughters, original flight home would have possibly been diverted to another airport due to a hurricane we were expecting. The teacher and chaperones decided that rather than get diverted, to remain in the city where they were and come back a day later when the hurricane had passed. They felt it would be more comfortable for the children.)

There was a great book out a few years ago by Mr. Rogers (of all people). But it had great pictures of the whole flying process. From packing a suitcase, checking in all they way thru to arrival at the next airport.

"Going on an Airplane (A Mister Rogers, First Experiences book)
by Rogers, Fred, and Judkis, Jim (Photographer)

Details an airplane trip from packing and arriving at the airport to the moment the plane comes down to land in a new city. "
 
I fly about 3 times a year with 2 children with autism. Most of the time I am alone as their father has moved on & has a new family.
My daughter is high functioning, but we have had problems especially when there are schedule changes. For this reason I keep her out of sight of any clocks & I refuse to let her wear a watch on the plane. For example scheduled arrival time is 3:38, if we are still in the air at 3:40 we have a meltdown.
My son is low functioning. He is now 12 & acts similar to most 18 month olds on a plane. We get some stares with his clapping. As long as I keep the food coming & we travel later in the afternoon I have no problem with him. I also use a portable DVD player to entertain them.
We were switched from an afternoon flight to an evening flight & had to wait about 4 hours in the airport before taking off. (2 hours longer than I had planned) A family of 6 had trouble checking all their bags & we were delayed in take off waiting for them about 25 minutes. So I ran low on snacks & had repeated the DVDs twice. About 20 minutes from landing in Orlando my children had hit their limit.
It was bedtime. The people around me seemed to understand. Secretly praying we weren't on their return flight. My children were not running around, I did my best to parent them but I will admit they were noisy not quite out of contol but somewhere near the border. My son kicked the empty seat in front of him a few times. (Good thing it was empty!)
Sometimes it isn't the Mom's fault, but in this case it may have been. I just don't understand why they weren't given another flight. If someone is too intoxicated they allow them time to sober up. Why don't they allow children time to quiet down?
 
With equal access rights comes equal responsiblity. I have worked with children and adults with severe disabilities for over 30 years; I have a daughter with hearing loss (who can get VERY loud).....when I first started working with kids on the spectrum and with developmental delays they were in the back wards with NO rights or access to appropriate education, social opportunities, sports, etc.....that has significantly changed, thank God.

At the same time, with that access comes responsibility, and sometimes some individuals (with 98% being great) forget that.....just because you are allowed to fly on a plane, play on a team, or frequent a restaurant or WDW where access had been previously denied, this is not a license for disruptive or inappropriate behavior. Children cry, melt down, etc......but parents need to deal with it- not inflict the situation on others.

Example: Just last night we went out to dinner with MIL (with advanced dementia), my other three kids, and DD10 with hearing loss. The restaurant was quite noisy and DD10 began to talk loudly because she couldn't hear well.....does she have a right to talk loudly and disrupt others? NO....she was told to hush. She said, "but I can't hear".....we consoled her, and it was a tough situation, but she mustn't inflict her loudness on others. We probably won't go back to that restaurant because of the noise (or at least with DD10 and MIL)....so be it. Sometimes crap happens- and we deal with it. NO one's life is perfect, and we need to develop a little tolerance for the uncomfortable- even if you have autism,hearing loss, or another disability.

Now, I agree as well that there needs to be some "definitions" on inappropriate behavior. A crying child who remains in their seat, sitting relatively still and NOT running around is NOT a disruptive child- that is an uncomfortable situation (and I think us adults are jealous because the kid can howl and WE can't!). A child running up and down the aisles, tantrumming in the aisles or kicking the seats or walls of the plane IS disruptive and a danger to themselves and others. That requires intervention, including removal from the plane.

I have hauled each one of my kid's little behinds out of the grocery store, movie theaters, and my son once tantrummed from China to the International Gateway (while strapped in his stroller) when we were at Epcot. I was horribly embarrassed each time- but my kids NEEDED to know that their behavior had reached unacceptable limits and we were leaving. Not fun for any of us- but they learned. I also removed students with disabilities from a theatre, Walmart and way-to-many other locations because THEIR behavior was disruptive.....and THEY quickly learned that when with Dr. Val you don't do that (and if you behave you get fun things!). I would haul my teenagers out of a store/mall/restaurant now, if need be! Limitations and appropriate behavior have to be taught.

As my dear Professor Higbee taught me when I was first starting out- you get what you expect. You expect little brats and you will get little brats. You set clear limits, reward good behavior, implement consequences and you will have fine children regardless of what "label" has been applied to them. He taught me that it was a disservice to believe that children with labels couldn't learn good behavior- what was that saying about them- that they were incapable of learning? Then why bother? Instead, he wisely instructed us: Expect good behavior, reward good behavior, and generally, you will get good behavior. When you don't- review, redo and replan. If you stop expecting great things, then great things can never happen.

Now, if they could only come up with an adequate plan for husbands! And with that I will get off my soap box for the evening and climb back under my rock.
 
Sue, in response to your "brainstorming" idea about how to make travel easier....I guess I'd suggest erring on the side of caution:

consider bringing a chewy tube, or weighted vest, if your child has used these in the past. Even if they don't use them on a regular basis.

Bring "too much" food. Even in the car, we get stuck in traffic, delayed etc. I always have some type of food Zoe has to work on to eat, meaning, raisins, chewy breakfast bars, crunchy foods, etc. Not only does she get something to eat, but it seems to give her some sensory input, if the food is extra chewy.

Headphones --Good to cancel out too much sensory input, if the child is easily overwhelmed.
 
As my dear Professor Higbee taught me when I was first starting out- you get what you expect. You expect little brats and you will get little brats. You set clear limits, reward good behavior, implement consequences and you will have fine children regardless of what "label" has been applied to them. He taught me that it was a disservice to believe that children with labels couldn't learn good behavior- what was that saying about them- that they were incapable of learning? Then why bother? Instead, he wisely instructed us: Expect good behavior, reward good behavior, and generally, you will get good behavior. When you don't- review, redo and replan. If you stop expecting great things, then great things can never happen.

Now, if they could only come up with an adequate plan for husbands! And with that I will get off my soap box for the evening and climb back under my rock.

Do not go back under your rock! Please stay out here and tell me where I can find your Professor Higbee! The part of your post that I quoted above just sums up 100% my philosophy of working with not only the special needs students in my program, but with all of the students in our local high school. I've been having great success ignoring the labels and the 'disabilities' that come with them, and just working with each student as an individual, with individual needs, as we all are individuals with different needs. Sorry that I'm way OT, but this stuff you just posted says it all to me!

About the flight/family/airline - I'm sure that some passengers will come forward to speak up for one side or another, and until we get more of the story, I'm trying not to judge the family. I think I'm just really glad I wasn't on the flight, as I have a hard time keeping comments to myself (my disability, but I'm working on it!) One thing I've always made myself do - make sure I have enough cash on me for a 48 hour emergency. That means enough for food for 48 hours, taxi transport, and a night at a moderate priced hotel. It came in very handy when we got stuck at the airport in Denver for 27 hours, with a cardboard cutout of Captain Jack Sparrow in a garment bag :rolleyes1
 
I hope I didn't come across as trying to stoke a fire. I just wanted to convey that I was sympathetic, but I too don't support putting a planeload of folks in any danger which is why we won't be flying. I commend all of you who have found a way to fly with your autistic kids. I certainly took no offense from anything that was said - it was generally a kind and factual discussion. Although the "glee" exhibited by some of the posters could have been construed as lack of understanding, I'm sure that it wasn't.

This is a wonderful community and it's always an eye-opening experience to see how others view the world.

Take care all,
 
It's interesting, there are at least three threads on this incident on different DIS boards and they are all so different. I personally find the one on the Community Board to be rather disgusting - the physical attributes and personal habits of the family has no bearing on the issue. For the most part, this thread and the one on the discussion board have remained factual and directed at the issue.

A question for parents who travel with children on the spectrum - if your child is having a meltdown, what do you want others to do? Ignore you/your child? Try distraction (you know how with a baby you might start playing peek-a-boo)? I've always gone with "pretend I don't notice so as not to make it seem like a big deal", but maybe ignoring something obvious is upsetting to parents/children.
 

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!











facebook twitter
Top