Now that we are through Thanksgiving........

[SaintsManiac]

This pandemic has been very revealing in terms of how people view "non-essential" workers, almost as though they're *things* that exist to provide a particular service and simply stop existing when they aren't "in use", rather than actual people with bills to pay and children to feed. "I can go a year without a haircut", as though that's the important thing - the state of your hair, whether or not you've seen the latest Hollywood blockbuster - and it really doesn't matter whether the person who cuts your hair or sells you a movie ticket or prepares your restaurant meal can survive for weeks or months or a year or more without a paycheck.

I am on month 10 without a haircut because my (now former) hair stylist refuses to wear a mask. She said it flat out. I’m guessing in these parts she will still have plenty of business.
Not arguing anything specific. Just sharing an anecdote.

 

[AustinTink]

I'm not saying any *individual* should feel guilty about not getting their hair done. What I am saying is that the "shut it all down" crowd isn't thinking about the people who are being destroyed by that approach as people, only as service providers that they are willing to temporarily live without. It is really disheartening to listen to people who can work from home and are enjoying the extra family time or at the very least surviving this situation with a minimal amount of hardship advocate stripping literally everything from low-wage workers who were already struggling before all of this.

Believe me, I get it. I worked two jobs before the pandemic. When the schools opened back up, I wasn't willing to return. So now I have one job, that I can work from home. I lost a job I loved and a paycheck I needed.

My husband is a small business owner. His work has dried up because of the pandemic. We are struggling, but making things work. That's all anyone can do.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And your solution would be? Let the virus run rampant because by golly, people gotta work, which means other people gotta go to the movies to support them??? Our government always manages to come up with money to fund endless wars. Tax breaks for the wealthy. Corporate welfare. They can darn well cough up the cash to replace people's income. Of course they're short-term programs. That's all we would need if we did it right. See South Korea, who had their first case the same time we did, but locked down tight for several weeks and then got back to nearly normal. The virus is out of control now because we NEVER had a federal response, and some states were slower on the uptake than others. But even from this level, shuttering everything and replacing income for 6 weeks would break the chains of transmission while buying us time to get vaccines into arms. And no, they don't need to pay all the extras (holiday pay, etc.). Everyone can tighten their belts a little and get by on their basic salary, provided by the government, for 6 weeks....not that the guy selling movie tickets or the girl waiting tables gets adoption aid, insurance, or bereavement leave anyway.

Nope, not even close. I'd like to have a good conversation without people using the go to extreme because really where was in my conversation that I said just let the virus run rampant.

Where are you getting knowledge that short term aid would be all we need to replace the millions and millions and millions of people's lost income, work benefits, career advancement and more? How could you possibly know that? Clearly some industries even being reopened can't rebound well so how would a short-term fix absolve that?

I'm sorry I have to really laugh at the basics stuff. You realize that vacation pay isn't just for vacation right? I haven't worked at a company that gave vacation pay it was PTO and to be used for everything like sickness, like appointments, like taking care of other people, like so many other things. My husband doesn't have vacation time, he has PTO time. Several years ago they combined sick pay into vacation time. It's no wonder people have this impression of others, they don't even know the tiniest glimpse of their lives.

Sorry this conversation just isn't going to be fruitful. I do suggest speaking with a variety of people though who come from all walks of lives. You might be able to see they aren't just able to snap their fingers and tighten up their belts a little (which is insulting as is). Have a great rest of your day though!

 

[SaintsManiac]

I realize how terribly difficult some of these choices are - the struggle with pressure from others is real! But (and I say this kindly ) if one were to go to this event, regardless of how they justify it, they lose any high-ground from which to criticize anything Covid-related and move themselves from being part of the solution to being part of the problem. Make the right decision. I wish you well.

Thank you. I agree that they’ve become part of the problem. I just politely declined and offered a Face Time session for gift opening. We will see!

 

[dvcgirl67]

This pandemic has been very revealing in terms of how people view "non-essential" workers, almost as though they're *things* that exist to provide a particular service and simply stop existing when they aren't "in use", rather than actual people with bills to pay and children to feed. "I can go a year without a haircut", as though that's the important thing - the state of your hair, whether or not you've seen the latest Hollywood blockbuster - and it really doesn't matter whether the person who cuts your hair or sells you a movie ticket or prepares your restaurant meal can survive for weeks or months or a year or more without a paycheck.

You're exactly right. This is service sector recession. My business has been impacted greatly as a result. Thankfully, DH is still employed and we have means. Not everyone does, which is why this is truly a "K" shaped recession. People stopped spending on services, and started spending more on consumer goods. I read that Amazon has added 500,000 jobs since the pandemic began. It's going to take a long time for some of these service sector businesses to come back, and many will never return to their 2019 levels.

 

[Colleen27]

I am on month 10 without a haircut because my (now former) hair stylist refuses to wear a mask. She said it flat out. I’m guessing in these parts she will still have plenty of business.

Any business she loses is self-inflicted pain, and I don't blame you one bit for not going to her under those circumstances. I wouldn't either!

I don't actually get my hair cut or colored professionally, but my daughters' stylist has been incredibly accommodating through the pandemic - not only does she wear a mask, she's been arranging outdoor appointments for regulars who aren't comfortable coming into the relatively small and not distancing-friendly salon she works out of. Obviously that only really works for clients who are cut-only, but that's all my girls need so we really appreciated her "outside the box" thinking (pun only sort of intended).

 

[AustinTink]

My mom and I were just talking about gifts today. For the kids they have a few things they want but I think me being furloughed has toned down their wishes this year. To be honest they have everything under the sun anyways. My mom was like to me “I don’t want anything this year” I said the same. I just said all I want to do is travel. Or do fun things out of my home. All stuff we can’t do right now. The whole vacation, lack of, has affected my mom and I. We live and work to travel. So “things” we realize don’t matter. We decided to save that money and let it all out when we travel again.

we realize it’s life EXPERIENCES we dearly wish for, not shiny THINGS

That has been one of the gifts 2020 has given us. A greater appreciation of everything we took for granted, from our health to our life experiences.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Any business she loses is self-inflicted pain, and I don't blame you one bit for not going to her under those circumstances. I wouldn't either!

I don't actually get my hair cut or colored professionally, but my daughters' stylist has been incredibly accommodating through the pandemic - not only does she wear a mask, she's been arranging outdoor appointments for regulars who aren't comfortable coming into the relatively small and not distancing-friendly salon she works out of. Obviously that only really works for clients who are cut-only, but that's all my girls need so we really appreciated her "outside the box" thinking (pun only sort of intended).

I’m going to have to find someone that has integrity and safety measures in place. It won’t be easy around here.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I am on month 10 without a haircut because my (now former) hair stylist refuses to wear a mask. She said it flat out. I’m guessing in these parts she will still have plenty of business.
Not arguing anything specific. Just sharing an anecdote.

I think that's something that becomes a hinderance to the cause if you will. Hairstylists, salons, etc can be open with mitigation procedures in place one of the main ones being masks for both the guests and the employees.

 

[SaintsManiac]

I think that's something that becomes a hinderance to the cause if you will. Hairstylists, salons, etc can be open with mitigation procedures in place one of the main ones being masks for both the guests and the employees.

I’m sure she’s doing fine. It’s a common attitude in my area and no one is enforcing anything.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I’m sure she’s doing fine. It’s a common attitude in my area and no one is enforcing anything.

Oh I'm sure she is basing off of your comments. I was meaning the cause as in having these places be open as in it gives it a bad name/impression when you get situations like you described.

 

[takemethere]

I think it’s going to get much worse. We will see the after affects of Thanksgiving just as we go into the Christmas holiday. You add normal family gathering times and Covid fatigue and I think it’s going to be a very ugly winter.

And I agree - we don’t start seeing any major relief until the vaccine is rolled to most of the masses. Hopefully by late Spring. But most likely Summer.

Totally agree

 

[disykat]

Oops!!! Didn't realize this posted, I guess!

 

[disykat]

As for the work thing, that's really a small part of the spread if people are masked and distancing. My husband's employer employs about 14,000 people. They have been tracking everything. All the the active cases appear to be coming IN via people who have attended parties, family gatherings, etc. and are not seeming to spread. Obviously people CAN catch it at work while taking all the recommended precautions, but all the tracking (in the case of my husband's workplace) points towards the majority of cases coming IN. I barely leave home and caught the flu a few weeks ago, so nothing is foolproof. We only can do our best. However, think of the cases we could prevent if everyone would just do their best to avoid spreading this thing?

I have not worked since March, but as a part time worker and the secondary income in our family I'm just glad my full time coworkers are working. I'm willing to take my hit and I wish there was an easy way to equalize the pain for those that aren't able to work. There's definitely a big difference between those who are being crushed by this, those of us who are mildly affected financially, and those that are able to go on without consequence. Those of us who aren't really financially affected definitely need to be more aware. The long term affects of this remain to be seen and we need to realize there will be consequences still coming that will probably affect us all.

Meanwhile, my parent's senior residence (they are in the memory care area) just got their first known positive. Now we wait.

 

[dclpluto]

As for the work thing, that's really a small part of the spread if people are masked and distancing. My husband's employer employs about 14,000 people. They have been tracking everything. All the the active cases appear to be coming IN via people who have attended parties, family gatherings, etc. and are not seeming to spread. Obviously people CAN catch it at work while taking all the recommended precautions, but all the tracking (in the case of my husband's workplace) points towards the majority of cases coming IN. I barely leave home and caught the flu a few weeks ago, so nothing is foolproof. We only can do our best. However, think of the cases we could prevent if everyone would just do their best to avoid spreading this thing?

Meanwhile, my parent's senior residence (they are in the memory care area) just got their first known positive. Now we wait.

I agree with you but you only have to post it one time. Lol. Just kidding I know you only meant to post it once

 

[sweetpeama]

I am glad when it comes down to it that my DH has over 2 and actually closer to 3 months of sick time available saved up. While we would have a bit of a pay cut as he would not have his cases pulled, time under the standard for pulling his orders we would be able to make it with some modifications if we had to quarantine for a couple of weeks or more. We would be able to pay our mortgage and utilities along with the minimiums on our credit cards. We would not have gas for our truck to deal with during that time as we would not be going anywhere. We have family close enough that we could leave a cooler on the deck for them to put any food items that we run out of in for us wearing disposable gloves so we would not be having to pay for a delivery service which due to limited providers is expensive where I live. Most of our bills are either automatic or I can pay them from home easily enough. I am sure if it came down to when the one we drop off locally instead of mailing to a processing center in another town someone in my family would take care of that for us if I put everything in an envelope and they could use the drop box. Luckily we get our receipts via email for there so I wouldn't have to worry about that one.
I know that not everyone DH works with has the sick time he has saved up. His company gives them so many days a year which if not used roll over to the next year. In his 14 years with his employer he has used only 2 days, what makes me nervous is the younger guys starting out that are in their early 20s and who don't have much sick time available though the company has come down from their national office and stated that if an employee has a diagnosis of covid they will have their base pay covered during that time. Where it gets tricky is co workers spouse gets a positive test and thus co worker has to quarantine for 14 days unless co worker develops symptoms and has a positive test in which case it is 10 days and 72 hours after a fever breaks whichever is later. Though DH's employer did send home two of his co workers who were sharing a table in the breakroom with another co worker who had a positive diagnosis for a 2 week quarantine with pay. After that is when the extra chairs were removed from the tables in the breakroom and the security cameras were set to record instead of monitor. All employees were also told one person per table and not to be at the kitchen area to reheat their food if they have leftovers from home if someone else is in that area. if they are caught breaking this they will be on a one week suspension without pay for the first offense, 2 weeks for the 2nd offense in 6 months and on the third it is an automatic termination. They are not messing around with this which does make me feel better that he is not going be at an incereased risk of bringing covid home to me and the girls due to a nimskull co worker.

 

[ronandannette]

I’m going to have to find someone that has integrity and safety measures in place. It won’t be easy around here.

Just a musing on one of the many differences in the way things have been handled in various places. Here, salons and personal services were one of the last business types to be re-opened after our spring shut-down. The restrictions were extremely tight - specific cleaning protocols, very low-capacity, by appointment only, wait outside until your scheduled time, no touching product displays and everyone on the premises masked at all times. (This was in June - well before our total mask mandate was imposed.) Mine and the ones my DH and friends go to were all desperate to be back in business and have been fanatical in enforcing the safety measures.

Our case numbers are now exponentially higher than they were at the peak in the spring. Our province has just had a number of very strict measures imposed as of this Tuesday. Salons have specifically been allowed to stay open because there has not been a single instance of transmission traceable to a hair salon or barber shop (and they were under particular scrutiny by both the Provincial Health Authority and Occupational Health and Safety). It seems they are one type of service that can be demonstrably very safe as long as everyone is compliant to comprehensive and well-thought-out measures.

 

[JLTraveling]

Nope, not even close. I'd like to have a good conversation without people using the go to extreme because really where was in my conversation that I said just let the virus run rampant.

Where are you getting knowledge that short term aid would be all we need to replace the millions and millions and millions of people's lost income, work benefits, career advancement and more? How could you possibly know that? Clearly some industries even being reopened can't rebound well so how would a short-term fix absolve that?

I'm sorry I have to really laugh at the basics stuff. You realize that vacation pay isn't just for vacation right? I haven't worked at a company that gave vacation pay it was PTO and to be used for everything like sickness, like appointments, like taking care of other people, like so many other things. My husband doesn't have vacation time, he has PTO time. Several years ago they combined sick pay into vacation time. It's no wonder people have this impression of others, they don't even know the tiniest glimpse of their lives.

Sorry this conversation just isn't going to be fruitful. I do suggest speaking with a variety of people though who come from all walks of lives. You might be able to see they aren't just able to snap their fingers and tighten up their belts a little (which is insulting as is). Have a great rest of your day though!

Um, please don't make assumptions about who I do and don't speak with. I happen to have stumbled into a WFH career a few years back (and yes, my hours have been cut), but before that 100% of the jobs I've ever held were in-person customer service (theme parks, grocery stores, casino cage cashier, etc.) or in-person professional (mental health technician in residential mental health facilities). I also own a small business that is 100% reliant on people being very close to each other (immersive/interactive theater) that's shuttered for the foreseeable future. A lot of my friends still work for the theme parks, are tour guides or tarot readers or bartenders in NOLA, or are Broadway/off-Broadway actors. Or I should say WERE, since most of them have been completely out of work for months now. Believe me, I'm not living up in some ivory tower somewhere. Hell, it wasn't all that long ago that I was homeless. Some of the greatest people I know still are. I'm extremely aware of what PTO is, thank you. And I'm also extremely aware that your average front-line service worker doesn't earn ANY. At all.

But in answer to "how would a short term fix help with that?" It's easy. You solve the virus, you solve everything else. Everyone from Dr. Fauci to the former head of Goldman Sachs has said that. So have all the front-line workers I still talk to on a daily basis. And when I referred to belt tightening, I was referring to people who ARE fortunate enough to get bonuses/holiday pay/etc., who by definition are not the movie theater ticket sellers we were originally discussing...and I do believe that they could manage to live on their base salary for 6 weeks. The ticket sellers and grocery clerks are already living on their base salary because that's all they get. And yes, the federal government could afford to pay EVERYONE their base salary for 6 weeks. It would be pennies on the dollar compared to what we spend on endless wars.

And 6 short weeks is all I'm talking about. We could lock down HARD--close "essential" businesses too. After Katrina, the National Guard came in and distributed huge boxes of MREs at pickup stations. The Red Cross served free hot meals out of the back of ambulances in gas station parking lots. Do that on a national level and no one has to go ANYWHERE (obviously keep hospitals open). And 6 weeks later we have nearly zero cases and vaccines are flowing to high risk groups. Then we start reopening responsibly, while keeping federal money flowing to places that CAN'T reopen until we achieve herd immunity via vaccination. Tell me why that can't work.

 

[RamblingMad]

What about Christmas? I was just reading an article where Fauci was saying he is concerned that we are heading into a "dark holiday season" as the surge in cases is likely to persist through Christmas and New Years. Sigh. I am so looking forward to this pandemic getting under control. What do you all think will happen in the coming months? Things will get better or worse? Vaccine out next month? Will people gather/travel for Christmas? I just don't know what to think.

I went to the mall today and stood in line to go into the LEGO store for sets sold out online. The mall wasn't packed like it had been in previous holidays, and some stores that were once open now are closed. But it was still crowded.

Things will get worse through March of next year. Flu season is just starting, but it should be a mild year for it given the precautions for COVID even if everyone isn't following the rules.

 

[NFLDERS]

Um, please don't make assumptions about who I do and don't speak with. I happen to have stumbled into a WFH career a few years back (and yes, my hours have been cut), but before that 100% of the jobs I've ever held were in-person customer service (theme parks, grocery stores, casino cage cashier, etc.) or in-person professional (mental health technician in residential mental health facilities). I also own a small business that is 100% reliant on people being very close to each other (immersive/interactive theater) that's shuttered for the foreseeable future. A lot of my friends still work for the theme parks, are tour guides or tarot readers or bartenders in NOLA, or are Broadway/off-Broadway actors. Or I should say WERE, since most of them have been completely out of work for months now. Believe me, I'm not living up in some ivory tower somewhere. Hell, it wasn't all that long ago that I was homeless. Some of the greatest people I know still are. I'm extremely aware of what PTO is, thank you. And I'm also extremely aware that your average front-line service worker doesn't earn ANY. At all.

But in answer to "how would a short term fix help with that?" It's easy. You solve the virus, you solve everything else. Everyone from Dr. Fauci to the former head of Goldman Sachs has said that. So have all the front-line workers I still talk to on a daily basis. And when I referred to belt tightening, I was referring to people who ARE fortunate enough to get bonuses/holiday pay/etc., who by definition are not the movie theater ticket sellers we were originally discussing...and I do believe that they could manage to live on their base salary for 6 weeks. The ticket sellers and grocery clerks are already living on their base salary because that's all they get. And yes, the federal government could afford to pay EVERYONE their base salary for 6 weeks. It would be pennies on the dollar compared to what we spend on endless wars.

And 6 short weeks is all I'm talking about. We could lock down HARD--close "essential" businesses too. After Katrina, the National Guard came in and distributed huge boxes of MREs at pickup stations. The Red Cross served free hot meals out of the back of ambulances in gas station parking lots. Do that on a national level and no one has to go ANYWHERE (obviously keep hospitals open). And 6 weeks later we have nearly zero cases and vaccines are flowing to high risk groups. Then we start reopening responsibly, while keeping federal money flowing to places that CAN'T reopen until we achieve herd immunity via vaccination. Tell me why that can't work.

Um, please don't make assumptions about who I do and don't speak with. I happen to have stumbled into a WFH career a few years back (and yes, my hours have been cut), but before that 100% of the jobs I've ever held were in-person customer service (theme parks, grocery stores, casino cage cashier, etc.) or in-person professional (mental health technician in residential mental health facilities). I also own a small business that is 100% reliant on people being very close to each other (immersive/interactive theater) that's shuttered for the foreseeable future. A lot of my friends still work for the theme parks, are tour guides or tarot readers or bartenders in NOLA, or are Broadway/off-Broadway actors. Or I should say WERE, since most of them have been completely out of work for months now. Believe me, I'm not living up in some ivory tower somewhere. Hell, it wasn't all that long ago that I was homeless. Some of the greatest people I know still are. I'm extremely aware of what PTO is, thank you. And I'm also extremely aware that your average front-line service worker doesn't earn ANY. At all.

But in answer to "how would a short term fix help with that?" It's easy. You solve the virus, you solve everything else. Everyone from Dr. Fauci to the former head of Goldman Sachs has said that. So have all the front-line workers I still talk to on a daily basis. And when I referred to belt tightening, I was referring to people who ARE fortunate enough to get bonuses/holiday pay/etc., who by definition are not the movie theater ticket sellers we were originally discussing...and I do believe that they could manage to live on their base salary for 6 weeks. The ticket sellers and grocery clerks are already living on their base salary because that's all they get. And yes, the federal government could afford to pay EVERYONE their base salary for 6 weeks. It would be pennies on the dollar compared to what we spend on endless wars.

And 6 short weeks is all I'm talking about. We could lock down HARD--close "essential" businesses too. After Katrina, the National Guard came in and distributed huge boxes of MREs at pickup stations. The Red Cross served free hot meals out of the back of ambulances in gas station parking lots. Do that on a national level and no one has to go ANYWHERE (obviously keep hospitals open). And 6 weeks later we have nearly zero cases and vaccines are flowing to high risk groups. Then we start reopening responsibly, while keeping federal money flowing to places that CAN'T reopen until we achieve herd immunity via vaccination. Tell me why that can't work.

HEAR! HEAR!