Now that we are through Thanksgiving........

[unrequited23]

I was a realist about Thanksgiving. I had a talk with my DH at the end of October when our state's daily cases were trending up around 2,000 a day and told him I was feeling uncomfortable about Thanksgiving at his parents. I said that if it got to 5,500/day I thought we should postpone. We were well over 8,000/day last week.

I'm having trouble being so definitive about Christmas. Logically I know I should say we'll drop the presents on the porch and open on zoom.

 

[Christine]

Well, got the email today from my coworker--her whole family is positive for COVID (and all are symptomatic). Her adult son (living with her) decided to go to an indoor birthday party celebration (10 people) and he picked it up there and brought it back home. My coworker is just furious with him for doing that.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Well, got the email today from my coworker--her whole family is positive for COVID (and all are symptomatic). Her adult son (living with her) decided to go to an indoor birthday party celebration (10 people) and he picked it up there and brought it back home. My coworker is just furious with him for doing that.

Yup, we're going to see so much of this. I know I'm hearing of lots of people lately who have gotten Covid, or have been exposed.

In my immediate family (siblings, parents...etc), we all stayed to ourselves. But my 35 year old cousin had a big ole' Thanksgivng.....10 additional adults along with his wife, kids and lots of other little kids. Well, just heard that he was exposed on Tuesday at a work meeting. Someone came to work with symptoms. They all had masks on, but when the guy started coughing, everyone freaked out. Sure enough, his results came back positive.

However, my cousin went ahead with TG plans. Now he's "quarantining" in his basement, which I take to mean a normal Saturday for him...drinking beer in his basement watching TV and playing video games. In the meantime, he has possibly exposed 4 people over 60, two of whom have pretty serous preexisting conditions.

 

[ronandannette]

I'm glad you said that because it makes me feel nuts to decline this. They make me feel like I am overreacting. She already shamed me for not going to restaurants.

I realize how terribly difficult some of these choices are - the struggle with pressure from others is real! But (and I say this kindly ) if one were to go to this event, regardless of how they justify it, they lose any high-ground from which to criticize anything Covid-related and move themselves from being part of the solution to being part of the problem. Make the right decision. I wish you well.

 

[Colleen27]

Hair cuts might not be necessary. But hair stylists feeding their families IS necessary. That's the link people are missing.

This is all a much bigger issue than it was back in the spring since our elected officials decided to play politics instead of passing any sort of additional help for the businesses they were closing (and the people working there).

This pandemic has been very revealing in terms of how people view "non-essential" workers, almost as though they're *things* that exist to provide a particular service and simply stop existing when they aren't "in use", rather than actual people with bills to pay and children to feed. "I can go a year without a haircut", as though that's the important thing - the state of your hair, whether or not you've seen the latest Hollywood blockbuster - and it really doesn't matter whether the person who cuts your hair or sells you a movie ticket or prepares your restaurant meal can survive for weeks or months or a year or more without a paycheck.

 

[Farro]

This pandemic has been very revealing in terms of how people view "non-essential" workers, almost as though they're *things* that exist to provide a particular service and simply stop existing when they aren't "in use", rather than actual people with bills to pay and children to feed. "I can go a year without a haircut", as though that's the important thing - the state of your hair, whether or not you've seen the latest Hollywood blockbuster - and it really doesn't matter whether the person who cuts your hair or sells you a movie ticket or prepares your restaurant meal can survive for weeks or months or a year or more without a paycheck.

Bingo.

 

[AustinTink]

To be honest, our Thanksgiving for three was just lovely. After 25 years of traveling to the big family gathering it was so nice to just enjoy a quiet meal without any stress. Not one ounce of stress from the road trip, the awkward conversations with cousins you see once a year, the madness of Black Friday. None of it. It was just right.

Christmas will be more of the same. We've already decided to pare down the gifts immensely and just focus on the joy of the season. We will do a lot of baking, movie watching, popcorn popping and just relax. 2020 has taught us that we don't need any of the big things in life to be happy. The trips, a room full of Christmas gifts, attending every party... it's just not important.

 

[AustinTink]

This pandemic has been very revealing in terms of how people view "non-essential" workers, almost as though they're *things* that exist to provide a particular service and simply stop existing when they aren't "in use", rather than actual people with bills to pay and children to feed. "I can go a year without a haircut", as though that's the important thing - the state of your hair, whether or not you've seen the latest Hollywood blockbuster - and it really doesn't matter whether the person who cuts your hair or sells you a movie ticket or prepares your restaurant meal can survive for weeks or months or a year or more without a paycheck.

I love my hairdresser and his partner, but I'm not willing to risk my life to support his business. We talk every few weeks and he understands where I'm coming from. People shouldn't be guilted about protecting their own health and safety and the safety of those around them.

 

[JLTraveling]

This pandemic has been very revealing in terms of how people view "non-essential" workers, almost as though they're *things* that exist to provide a particular service and simply stop existing when they aren't "in use", rather than actual people with bills to pay and children to feed. "I can go a year without a haircut", as though that's the important thing - the state of your hair, whether or not you've seen the latest Hollywood blockbuster - and it really doesn't matter whether the person who cuts your hair or sells you a movie ticket or prepares your restaurant meal can survive for weeks or months or a year or more without a paycheck.

Which is why we need to be leaning on our elected officials to do what they should have done since the beginning: PAY people to stay home. The solution isn't for us to sacrifice ourselves/each other to ensure people can pay their bills. The solution is for our government to provide the relief needed for non-essential workers to stay home AND pay their bills.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

This post doesn't make any sense. Some businesses are essential for society to run. Utilities, hospitals, grocery stores, some financial institutions. It is just reality. That doesn't make them "safe", it just means we couldn't run without them. That doesn't mean anyone is living a dream high on a pedestal in a pandemic, it is just reality.

On the other hand other things are not necessary. You can go a year or longer without a haircut, or going to a movie, or eating inside a restaurant, or seeing extended family, or getting a tattoo, or going to a bar. You don't ignore the unessessary added risks of the non-essential things because of the essential things. If that means you just go to work, the grocery store, the bank, and nowhere else that is what it means. It is what I'm doing and many other people that aren't just thinking about themselves.

At this rate there won't be any movie theater companies left to even watch a movie in. Regardless I gather it's hard to see the person behind the 'want' not 'need'. The ironic twist is you actually are only just thinking about yourself. If you were thinking about other people you wouldn't even make such comments about necessary and not necessary with an air of well I'm not even sure how to describe it; you would be able to see that there are people who work in salons or have their own salon business and the people who have tattoo shops or work in ones or the waiter and waitresses at the bar and the bar owners and the kitchen staff at the restaurants (and waiter and waitresses and the restaurant owners), etc.

There isn't a win-win here as we do understand some places simply make things easier for COVID to spread but you'd think people would be at least cognizant of the people who are just like us in the end.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

I love my hairdresser and his partner, but I'm not willing to risk my life to support his business. We talk every few weeks and he understands where I'm coming from. People shouldn't be guilted about protecting their own health and safety and the safety of those around them.

That's not what she was doing at all. You shouldn't go to the hairdresser if you feel your safety is at risk, gosh no, no one is suggesting that. I feel like that is a deliberate misunderstanding of the conversation.

 

[VandVsmama]

Here in AZ, the vaccine will start getting administered to healthcare workers and first responders in about 2 weeks. We had Thanksgiving at home with just our immediate family. Tentative Christmas plans include having my MIL and sister over.

 

[bennifer]

Our Thanksgiving was just DH, younger DS and me. My parents decided the day before that they just weren’t comfortable coming and that was fine! We took them food and we FaceTimed while eating. Tomorrow we’ll be doing the same with the in-laws. I really would like to think that Christmas will be better in terms of Covid, but like @georgina, we’re also in Western PA (just a county north of her, I suspect) and the numbers are getting out of control. I’d rather have a FaceTime Christmas one year than not have any more with my parents.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Which is why we need to be leaning on our elected officials to do what they should have done since the beginning: PAY people to stay home. The solution isn't for us to sacrifice ourselves/each other to ensure people can pay their bills. The solution is for our government to provide the relief needed for non-essential workers to stay home AND pay their bills.

That's decades in the making IMO to overhaul such a system.

And how much will you pay those people to stay home? Is that 100%+extra of each and every person's income? What about lost career advancement and bonus opportunities for the future? And will you provide all that their job provided in terms of vacation pay, sick leave, insurance, adoption aid, bereavement leave, holiday pay, etc? Or is this yet again another short-sighted conversation where people aren't seeing the big picture.

You're asking people to be paid to stay home and yet there's zero concept of what that actually means. The CARES Act and Unemployment are short-term programs and aren't intended to replace one's job and yet you expect that to be the case.

Are we really asking people to simply exist and be scraping by?

I'm totally behind companies needing to adjust sick time and vacation time to encourage those ill to be able to realistically stay home. That is way different than we're telling you you can't work but here some money not be quiet and stay home would ya.

 

[AustinTink]

Which is why we need to be leaning on our elected officials to do what they should have done since the beginning: PAY people to stay home. The solution isn't for us to sacrifice ourselves/each other to ensure people can pay their bills. The solution is for our government to provide the relief needed for non-essential workers to stay home AND pay their bills.

 

[Colleen27]

I love my hairdresser and his partner, but I'm not willing to risk my life to support his business. We talk every few weeks and he understands where I'm coming from. People shouldn't be guilted about protecting their own health and safety and the safety of those around them.

I'm not saying any *individual* should feel guilty about not getting their hair done. What I am saying is that the "shut it all down" crowd isn't thinking about the people who are being destroyed by that approach as people, only as service providers that they are willing to temporarily live without. It is really disheartening to listen to people who can work from home and are enjoying the extra family time or at the very least surviving this situation with a minimal amount of hardship advocate stripping literally everything from low-wage workers who were already struggling before all of this.

Which is why we need to be leaning on our elected officials to do what they should have done since the beginning: PAY people to stay home. The solution isn't for us to sacrifice ourselves/each other to ensure people can pay their bills. The solution is for our government to provide the relief needed for non-essential workers to stay home AND pay their bills.

I agree with that in principle... but I think policy has to come from a real-world perspective and the real-world perspective is that our government structure allows a small number of wealthy individuals to decide that no such measures are necessary and therefore our on-the-ground approach has to take into account the fact that no support is likely to be forthcoming. Not now, not in January, not in the foreseeable future. We need to adjust our approach to containing the virus to that reality, not just passively wish reality were different while following a course that is consigning millions to poverty, hunger and eviction.

 

[mousefan73]

My non-expert opinion thinks either 1. Things are going to spike and gets so bad in 2-4 weeks after Thanksgiving that everyone ( even non- believers) Will be too scared to leave their houses. As they probably will be sick themselves or know people who are sick. Or know people who are having issues getting healthcare do to our infrastructures being overwhelmed. 2. Things will still get worse but there will still be pockets were people are relatively not affected and things will continue as they are now. Some go on as normal.

My other non-expert opinion is that even if people get the shot this coming month it will not be enough to show any impact until at least February in numbers. Or cases for spread.

we have already decided that we will not go to my sister-in-law and meet up with other family members as we usually do. We will probably suggest to my one sister in law that we go for a Christmas walk outside as a family. My mother who was in our bubble and in our home many nights of the week has threatened that if we go to other family not in our bubble on Xmas, she will basically not see us over Christmas/NYE . So this is kind of causing a little internal family drama. Me telling my husband it’s either my mom or your family. And seeing that my mother lives alone and has no other family it would be unfair to have her be by herself while we visit his larger family, where everyone has large households

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

This pandemic has been very revealing in terms of how people view "non-essential" workers, almost as though they're *things* that exist to provide a particular service and simply stop existing when they aren't "in use", rather than actual people with bills to pay and children to feed. "I can go a year without a haircut", as though that's the important thing - the state of your hair, whether or not you've seen the latest Hollywood blockbuster - and it really doesn't matter whether the person who cuts your hair or sells you a movie ticket or prepares your restaurant meal can survive for weeks or months or a year or more without a paycheck.

All of us earn a paycheck because we fill a need in society. If the role you fill is discretionary, it's a much higher risk that your role can go away very quickly. Whether that's a recession, crap CEO, or pandemic, you have to be prepared for black swan events.

I feel for people on the lower end of the pay scale as it is much harder (and sometimes even impossible) to "be prepared" but I can only control my life. If our governor went full Florida and said 100% capacity is allowed tomorrow it would just make me less likely to go to a movie or restaurant.

 

[JLTraveling]

That's decades in the making IMO to overhaul such a system.

And how much will you pay those people to stay home? Is that 100%+extra of each and every person's income? What about lost career advancement and bonus opportunities for the future? And will you provide all that their job provided in terms of vacation pay, sick leave, insurance, adoption aid, bereavement leave, holiday pay, etc? Or is this yet again another short-sighted conversation where people aren't seeing the big picture.

You're asking people to be paid to stay home and yet there's zero concept of what that actually means. The CARES Act and Unemployment are short-term programs and aren't intended to replace one's job and yet you expect that to be the case.

Are we really asking people to simply exist and be scraping by?

I'm totally behind companies needing to adjust sick time and vacation time to encourage those ill to be able to realistically stay home. That is way different than we're telling you you can't work but here some money not be quiet and stay home would ya.

And your solution would be? Let the virus run rampant because by golly, people gotta work, which means other people gotta go to the movies to support them??? Our government always manages to come up with money to fund endless wars. Tax breaks for the wealthy. Corporate welfare. They can darn well cough up the cash to replace people's income. Of course they're short-term programs. That's all we would need if we did it right. See South Korea, who had their first case the same time we did, but locked down tight for several weeks and then got back to nearly normal. The virus is out of control now because we NEVER had a federal response, and some states were slower on the uptake than others. But even from this level, shuttering everything and replacing income for 6 weeks would break the chains of transmission while buying us time to get vaccines into arms. And no, they don't need to pay all the extras (holiday pay, etc.). Everyone can tighten their belts a little and get by on their basic salary, provided by the government, for 6 weeks....not that the guy selling movie tickets or the girl waiting tables gets adoption aid, insurance, or bereavement leave anyway.

 

[mousefan73]

To be honest, our Thanksgiving for three was just
Christmas will be more of the same. We've already decided to pare down the gifts immensely and just focus on the joy of the season. We will do a lot of baking, movie watching, popcorn popping and just relax. 2020 has taught us that we don't need any of the big things in life to be happy. The trips, a room full of Christmas gifts, attending every party... it's just not important.

My mom and I were just talking about gifts today. For the kids they have a few things they want but I think me being furloughed has toned down their wishes this year. To be honest they have everything under the sun anyways. My mom was like to me “I don’t want anything this year” I said the same. I just said all I want to do is travel. Or do fun things out of my home. All stuff we can’t do right now. The whole vacation, lack of, has affected my mom and I. We live and work to travel. So “things” we realize don’t matter. We decided to save that money and let it all out when we travel again.

we realize it’s life EXPERIENCES we dearly wish for, not shiny THINGS