Your thoughts on Unions

[Christine]

I hear that excuse a lot to keep certain jobs low wage and without benefits or job protections. And I find it ironic given that many people in our grandparents generation (maybe even your grandparents themselves) did that very job and were able to make a living doing so. As for the other jobs, I was pointing that....well, it's all relative. There are plenty of people that don't think those jobs should be well paid livable jobs too.

Now you've made me have memories!!! Historically where I live, grocery stores have been unionized. I grew up in the 60s and 70s and remember the same grocery store clerks working in the same store for their whole lives. While I believe they were making a lower wage, they got benefits and a pension from the union. While most of our grocery stores are still unionized, I believe their benefits have eroded and basically the union keeps their wages up. I think the last grocery store cashier "lifer" that I know here locally retired about 5 years ago after about 40 years of working the checkout.

Now I don't think it was enough to live on by herself, but it certainly was a worthy job in her mind and better than a regular run-of-the-mill minimum wage job.

I think even though unionized, those cashier jobs were relatively lower paid, you have to factor in that the minimum wage has not kept up with inflation so that's why people don't live well enough on them to begin with.

 

[Hikergirl]

I hear that excuse a lot to keep certain jobs low wage and without benefits or job protections. And I find it ironic given that many people in our grandparents generation (maybe even your grandparents themselves) did that very job and were able to make a living doing so. As for the other jobs, I was pointing that....well, it's all relative. There are plenty of people that don't think those jobs should be well paid livable jobs too.

I'm not going to turn this thread into an economics argument. This was about what we thought about unions. I shared what I thought, obviously I hit a nerve with you. Move on, really it's ok that someone doesn't see things your way.

And just a little FYI retail was my career. It is how I made my living and paid all my bills. I started as a part time cashier in high school making minimum wage. Never went to college, worked for years, getting raises, enjoying benefits until I reached management position. Then used my experience to get a better paying management position. Would have went farther but life's circumstances changed.
You can assume what you want about why I feel the way I do, but you do know what they say when one assumes

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Now you've made me have memories!!! Historically where I live, grocery stores have been unionized. I grew up in the 60s and 70s and remember the same grocery store clerks working in the same store for their whole lives. While I believe they were making a lower wage, they got benefits and a pension from the union. While most of our grocery stores are still unionized, I believe their benefits have eroded and basically the union keeps their wages up. I think the last grocery store cashier "lifer" that I know here locally retired about 5 years ago after about 40 years of working the checkout.

Now I don't think it was enough to live on by herself, but it certainly was a worthy job in her mind and better than a regular run-of-the-mill minimum wage job.

I think even though unionized, those cashier jobs were relatively lower paid, you have to factor in that the minimum wage has not kept up with inflation so that's why people don't live well enough on them to begin with.

Many groceries around me were union as well. Some still are.

 

[wvjules]

You're basically saying that's not a job worthy of respect or a living wage. Frankly, there are plenty of people out there (many in high places) that would say the same of teachers, nurses, police, fire fighters, constructions workers, secretaries, and more. We have unions to protect people from bosses who think their workers do little and can be continually nickeled and dimed.

How do the many millions of successful people manage without unions to protect them from their bosses?

 

[Suger Mag]

I find it interesting the things we take for granted... job safety, vacation and sick time, raises etc were because of unionization.

An excellent read for what life was like for the average worker before unions.

 

[Klayfish]

I find it interesting the things we take for granted... job safety, vacation and sick time, raises etc were because of unionization.

An excellent read for what life was like for the average worker before unions.

That book was written well over 100 years ago. Life was very, very different for everyone...regardless of job.

Look at the American auto industry for a great example of union effects. The "Big 3" were strangled by their unions and will be paying the price for many years to come. Chrysler is basically dead at this point.

 

[Suger Mag]

That book was written well over 100 years ago. Life was very, very different for everyone...regardless of job.

Look at the American auto industry for a great example of union effects. The "Big 3" were strangled by their unions and will be paying the price for many years to come. Chrysler is basically dead at this point.

112 years ago to be exact, was published in 1906. Didn't realize that 100 years was the expiration date for a book to be good and interesting.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I find it interesting the things we take for granted... job safety, vacation and sick time, raises etc were because of unionization.

An excellent read for what life was like for the average worker before unions.

The positive that comes from anyone or anything shouldn’t insulate them from criticism when they do wrong.

 

[Suger Mag]

The positive that comes from anyone or anything shouldn’t insulate them from criticism when they do wrong.

I agree. No one should be above criticism when they do wrong.

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

How do the many millions of successful people manage without unions to protect them from their bosses?

In my experience, it comes down to luck. I've worked at wonderful privately owned companies and private companies that are thorough reminders of how employees can be taken advantage of without unions.

 

[mom2my3kids]

Yes but my husbands union sucks...

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

I agree. No one should be above criticism when they do wrong.

I have to laugh at this because even though my husband's union is OK, it still feels risky speaking up and the health benefits have dwindled to practically nothing. Unions aren't the free for all Eden people think they are. When I was doing my visiting nurse rotation, the only people that had the gold plated union benefits were a few elderly people...who usually despised union supporting politicians, but that's another story.

 

[Klayfish]

112 years ago to be exact, was published in 1906. Didn't realize that 100 years was the expiration date for a book to be good and interesting.

Never said anything about whether it's entertaining or not. My comment is that a book about work life pre-1906 has little to do with work life/conditions in 2018. So much has changed since that time, union or not. Just my opinion, but using that book as a reference point for unions today is apples and oranges.

 

[mrodgers]

Generally speaking, people “think of” Teamsters as truckers & others in the transportation industry. At least I do. But, obviously that’s not all they do.

See, I'm in western PA. Teamsters to me is steel mill and factory workers.

My only experience with unions is the UAW trying to unionize (6 times) where I work in OEM automotive parts manufacturing.

The one that sticks out the most was the guy fired after 3 times being told not to smoke in the propane shed. Because it was during a unionization campaign, the UAW filed grievance for unfair labor practices and he got his job back. About 3 weeks after that the 4th time he was told about smoking in the propane shed he quit.

 

[sasywtch]

As a retired CA state worker, yes I was forced to join the union. (that just changed though). Years ago when it was CSEA, it was small and they were personal. If you had issues, they were attentive. Fast forward, changed to SEIU. Dues doubled. They would have meetings at our building and tell us they were offering "free" lunch for us. Yeah, our money paid for that lunch. They got a new building, everyone got secretaries, calls go unanswered. Their political agenda is different than mine and they do continually remind you who they are backing. They had the opt out where you still had to pay a reduced dues but you were not represented (they wouldn't show up if you had issues at work) but you paid fair share. It wasn't much less. Now, you can opt out completely is my understanding.

Good-I never realized until reading the Dis just how good my medical insurance is. Also, it's on a fair balance as everyone in your classification has the same steps of pay and vacation. Management has to follow procedure on writing someone up/firing. I worked private and everyday, people were being led out the door due to sales being down. You couldn't plan that you had a job the next day.

Bad-when it changed over, I saw a huge change in their helping an employee having trouble with management. For example: when I was written up on the false charges about 3 employees I worked with (all 3 said it was false and willing to state that), my union person told me to wait a year and petition to have it removed from my file. ???? If it's false, it shouldn't be in there!!!! Our whooping 3-5% raises they touted? It was over 3 years and by the time they took out their additional percentage (because we pay our dues per percentage of pay), then there was always a raise in our health care, we maybe ended up with a $28 a month take home raise after 3 years of waiting. In the meantime, rental prices have gone up 40%. People continually complain about how much the union leader is making but they keep voting her in which I do not understand.

People do get fired under the union. 3 people in my building were fired for good cause. On the other spectrum, the union bends over and doesn't follow up on crooked management. There are very devious managers out there that know how to play the system and are proud of their lies to get people fired. It was sickening and one of the reasons I retired early. The union doesn't listen to the lower level employees and they need to start listening. I have a funny feeling that in years to come, there will be an uprising and the union is going to wonder what happened.

So, it was 50/50 for me. Loved the benefits, vacation. health insurance, etc. Hated how they changed over the years. It became less about protecting employees to their political agenda.

 

[longboard55]

A couple years back when the economy was not as good I new a few kids working in retail. Min wage of course. They worked 31 3/4 hours so no benefits, no vacation, no sick leave, insurance? you must be joking, they would text their schedule sunday night for the next week so it was impossible to make any plans or get a second job, raises were 5 cents a year, they would have them do things that were supposed to be higher pay like tech support and not pay them. Its was 100% for the employer.

The problem is if you let employers get away with murder they will take it. You need a balance

 

[Suger Mag]

Never said anything about whether it's entertaining or not. My comment is that a book about work life pre-1906 has little to do with work life/conditions in 2018. So much has changed since that time, union or not. Just my opinion, but using that book as a reference point for unions today is apples and oranges.

i never said it was a reflection of today, I simply said I thought the book was interesting and suggested that folks check it out, and that it was about working conditions before Unions. I apologize if I misunderstood the tone of your post, but to me it seemed like you were very dismissive of the book simply due to age, and gave the impression that it was uninteresting.

read the book or don't LOL, I thought (perhaps wrongly) that folks might find it interesting due to the topic of the thread, no other reason... it is just a good book, not meant to be a trigger.

 

[StageTek]

Been a long time Union member. Five different IATSE locals.

Proud to be a member. Proud to be a skilled worker. Not always happy about everything the Union does but that is true about everything.

 

[kilroy1966]

I retired in 2012 at 55, thanks to the APWU. 30 years working and have a 60% pension.

 

[longboard55]

I laugh when the talk about manufacturing jobs being good jobs. This is not the 60s when there was union protection, any new manufacturing job will be minimum wage no benefits. That's the way it works, and if you complain they threaten to ship the job to mexico