Your thoughts on Free Dining?

[BEASLYBOO]

FD is a marketing tool that appeals to many. I can certainly understand that if you come to Disney, don't rent a car, stay in a value, then you have to have a place to eat in Disney and for some, FD and the DP's work and work well. I happen to need neither option, nor do I travel during the FD period, so none of it really affects me. I've never had issues booking my 2br's when and where I want.

FD users are they part of a "different crowd", no, they spend their loot, just as we all do at Disney. The word "free" is a perception, the vacation isn't free, it's the "lure" to pay for tickets and a room, something I don't need since I'm a DVC Owner and have yearly passes.

The only thing that does tork me is that, yes due to the introduction of the DDP's and FD, Disney changed the standards of most of the restaurants to accomodate larger crowds, more quickly. That's Disney's fault not the people who subscribe to what Disney offers. As a result, I spend less money at Disney. i eat off site more and I cook in our villas.

I don't care how others eat or spend their money! I can, however see that FD readily affects those who travel during those times by making it harder to get in and out of restaurants but how is that any different than those who choose to travel during Spring Break? Are those Spring Break people part of a "different crowd" ? Just kidding!! Did Spring Break, once and only once!

As long as FD/DP make money for Disney, like it or not, they are here to stay and as a DVC member Disney isn't catering to my wants or needs, they already got me and part of my money!

P.S. Bad manners, poor behavior in restaurants, jumping on the furniture, tearing up property, these attributes don't just involve FD crowds, it's a global epidemic not limited to children, it often includes the adults they travel with, DVC member or not!

 

[RLRDA]

While I don't mean to give this guy a pass for what sounds like some fairly obnoxious behavior, respectfully, what exactly did you expect?

To sum up my thoughts on kids at "nice" restaurants at Disney:
-Expecting parents to reign in their kids and not let them disrupt other diners is entirely reasonable

I'm not that person who thinks they shouldn't see any children at nice restaurants in WDW - I have 3 kids of my own but we chose not to bring them with us. There were other families with children at Jiko that night who behaved just fine. I know kids don't always sit still or stay quiet when you want them to but I know what I'm willing to put up with from my own kids and it is a lot less than what a room full of diners had to endure. I'd go to the counter service restaurant if I had to get up and play bingo with my kids during dinner. Nobody would have thought it was out of the ordinary there...they even play the classic cartoons in Mara (and elsewhere) which is entertaining for everyone.

I expect exactly what you mention in your summed up thoughts....which as you mention, is entirely reasonable.

 

[csharpwv]

While I don't mean to give this guy a pass for what sounds like some fairly obnoxious behavior, respectfully, what exactly did you expect? It's Disneyworld. There are going to be kids there, lots of them, in fact, and they are going to be at places that you wouldn't otherwise expect to see children by virtue of the fact that WDW is, at its heart, designed to be a place that the whole family can go. There is a kids menu at Jiko and at most restaurants, and with that being the case, I can't really fault the guy for bringing his children.

Honestly, if you want a kid-free environment at Disneyworld, you have to either go to V&A's or a couple of those places by the Boardwalk that don't allow children at their chef's table, or go off-site to a nice place that you wouldn't expect to see kids. At home, I would never dream of taking our daughter out to eat at nice places, but at Disney, it's just part of the deal, for better or for worse. Of course, I wouldn't bring a bingo game and start calling out numbers so the guy is clearly a knucklehead, but I can't say that this is the only instance I've ever heard of someone being totally clueless about restaurant etiquette at WDW, so it's unfortunately to be expected.

To sum up my thoughts on kids at "nice" restaurants at Disney:
-Expecting parents to reign in their kids and not let them disrupt other diners is entirely reasonable
-Expecting a truly adult environment at places that aren't designated as such is probably asking too much

I totally agree with you - we had dinner at the Wave a year or two ago and the nicest family was seated next to us and their children were 4 and 6 - and they were an absolutely pleasure to watch! The parents knew how to parent, and the kids knew that if they got fussy, they wouldn't get to go back into the Magic Kingdom that night for the fireworks - you could tell the parents were GOOD parents! The kids were just adorable, and polite, --- practically perfect in every way!

I understand that kids get fussy, they have melt downs, and they require a lot of attention, BUT there are good and bad ways to handle that. Bingo in the middle of a restaurant isn't a good way! HAHA No matter how you slice it!

We love kids, but we don't love idiotic parents who don't know how to parent!

 

[Sammie]

"Free Dining" is a tool that is used by Disney to increase attendance during forecasted low attendance periods. As a result, attendance is higher during this period, everywhere.

Free dining and the DDP have both affected the quality and quantity of food being offered. Chefs and Managers have a more restricted budget and the menu items have to allow for a faster table turn over. Disney doesn't want you to sit and enjoy your meal, they want you gone so the next guy can be served. Pacos Bill's in the MK had new chairs installed last year that were designed to be more uncomfortable with the backs removed. Guests were sitting for too long after they had finished eating.

Bill

if you are talking about the short stools at Pecos Bills they have had them for years.

 

[Sammie]

I agree with Golden Rose. Free Dining began due to the bad economy as a way to fill rooms during traditionally low seasons.

Whether it has caused a decline in food, who knows whether it did or would have happened anyway.

Honestly I never found the food to gourmet and honestly have not seen the horrible declines others talk about. Maybe we have simply tastes.

Are the restaurants more crowded, probably, but then so are resorts and theme parks. Disney just does a very good job of marketing year round.

I have no idea what the question does Free Dining attract a different crowd means

It does not bother me in the least they offer it and certainly think that all resort guests should be included.

I hope I am misunderstanding some of your questions, because it seems you think this is a class of person situation which does bother me, if that is what you are asking.

If by any chance you think that free dining encourages obnoxious behavior my 30+ years of going to Disney I have seen more wealthy people act obnoxious than anyone on Free Dining.

As to feeling rushed while dining at Disney, never ever had that happen.

 

[Sammie]

So many questions!

So-called "Free Dining" is a discount program that allows Disney to charge more for their resort rooms and to operate their resorts at a higher occupancy rate, especially when demand would otherwise be down. Disney is a business and apparently "Free Dining" has proven to be a successful way to fill rooms and increase overall revenue.

"Free Dining" is likely to continue to be back year after year, even if the economy gets much better. When the economy is better, the time periods when free dining is offered are likely to be shortened, and the room rates are likely to go up.

Disney can do what they want. They're a business. They own many of the restaurants at WDW, and they work out contracts with most of the restaurants that they don't own.

I wish the restaurants had to succeed based on the quality of their food and service, and the value received by guests. Instead, the restaurants are pretty much guaranteed a bunch of filled seats, and they can improve their P&L by lowering their costs. That's not a way to assure great meals.

But that's how it is.

Fortunately, it's still possible to dine well at WDW. And with a rental car, there are now more good places to dine within a fairly short drive from DVC resorts than ever before.

Confused as to why you think it allows them to charge more for their rooms, they charge Rack Rate when Free Dining is offered.

I know many get discounts of some sort now for rooms, but for years many people, myself included paid rack rate.

Some people still do pay rack rate without free dining.

Now you might have the opinion that the rooms are way over priced, and I might agree but they do not raise the room rates during free dining.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Confused as to why you think it allows them to charge more for their rooms, they charge Rack Rate when Free Dining is offered.

I know many get discounts of some sort now for rooms, but for years many people, myself included paid rack rate.

Some people still do pay rack rate without free dining.

Now you might have the opinion that the rooms are way over priced, and I might agree but they do not raise the room rates during free dining.

Hotels can achieve high occupancy charging rack rate (the full, undiscounted rate) during high-demand periods, but not when demand is low. But during low demand periods, hotels typically offer incentives of one kind or another. The simplest incentive in to offer meaningful discounts or promotions along the lines of "buy two nights, get one night feee."

Disney is no exception.

So-called "free dining" is a promotion. For Disney, it has the added benefits of filling restaurants, keeping guests on-site, and creating a perception of great savings without actually discounting the corresponding dollar amount.

Disney offers "free dining" to fill rooms that would, in many cases, otherwise go empty -- and to fill them at full rack rate (high rate) instead a reduced, off-season, promotional rate (low rate). In other words, Disney is charging more for their resort rooms than they could charge without so-called "free dining."

I don't see how my statement, "So-called 'Free Dining' is a discount program that allows Disney to charge more for their resort rooms and to operate their resorts at a higher occupancy rate, especially when demand would otherwise be down," is confusing.

 

[CarolAnnC]

This topic is not DVC specific and is more suited to our Disney Dining Plan Board. I will move it over for more input there. Thanks all.

 

[Sammie]

Hotels can achieve high occupancy charging rack rate (the full, undiscounted rate) during high-demand periods, but not when demand is low. But during low demand periods, hotels typically offer incentives of one kind or another. The simplest incentive in to offer meaningful discounts or promotions along the lines of "buy two nights, get one night feee."

Disney is no exception.

So-called "free dining" is a promotion. For Disney, it has the added benefits of filling restaurants, keeping guests on-site, and creating a perception of great savings without actually discounting the corresponding dollar amount.

Disney offers "free dining" to fill rooms that would, in many cases, otherwise go empty -- and to fill them at full rack rate (high rate) instead a reduced, off-season, promotional rate (low rate). In other words, Disney is charging more for their resort rooms than they could charge without so-called "free dining."

I don't see how my statement, "So-called 'Free Dining' is a discount program that allows Disney to charge more for their resort rooms and to operate their resorts at a higher occupancy rate, especially when demand would otherwise be down," is confusing.

Not so much confusing as just not how I would word it. To me it is a special promotional package that includes free dining with rack room rate.

Because for years and even now many people pay rack rate. There were times they did not discount them.

I don't consider Rack Rate an increase just because discounts are offered at other times.

Many people go and pay rack rate because they have not been offered a discounted rate or any kind.

What most hotels do and what Disney does and has done for years are not the same thing.

When Disney first started offering more wide spread discounts, PIN, Public codes, they stated they really hate to do this because when the economy improves and they start cutting them back to what they used to offer, which Florida resident and Annual pass, the general public will not be happy.

Do you not remember those day when discounts were few and far between year round. In fact AP discounts were not offered year round. They were offered during non peak times.

 

[goofy4tink]

Ok, so I've been having a heated debate with a co-worker about this topic.



As DVC members - What do you think about free dining?
I own DVC, don't much care about it one way or the other. Just let me know when it's being offered so I can plan accordingly

Do you think that it has lowered the food quality at WDW?
The ddp as a whole has changed dining quality at WDW. Free dining has removed some of the better options.

Do you think free dining attracts a different crowd to WDW?
It attracts those who feel they can't afford to go if they have to pay for food.

Do you think Value resort stays should qualify for free dining at all?
Why not? They get free CS. Seems fair to me.

Do you think that it packs the restaurants 'too' full?
Absolutely. If you are there at the start of summer free dining, the restaurants are crazy full.

Does the lack of available dining reservations during free dining periods annoy you?
Only if I have already booked my DVC stay, and then Disney comes along and announces free dining that starts at the time of my stay. Now, I have to fight to get any ADRs I want.

Do you think it is a promotion that Disney will continue to offer after this year?
It's a huge money maker for Disney, so yes.

Is the value of the promotion as high as what it is perceived to be?
I don't think so. You have to do a lot of research and decide which works better for your family...room discounts or rack rate rooms with free dining and park passes. Doesn't usually work out to be cheaper for us.

Have you had any free dining horror stories (overcrowded restaurants, lower quality of food, extremely large parties with WILD kids)?
At the Coral Reef, first week of free dining in Aug 2009. OMG...I have never seen it so awful in there. Huge numbers of families with very young kids. Babies crying, toddlers toddling around, older kids running around, shoving past guests seats to get right up to the tank. It was a nightmare. We couldn't even carry on a conversation...it was that loud. Went a year later but a week earlier, so free dining hadn't kicked in yet...it was so nice and peaceful in there. Completely different atmosphere.

I'm just curious to hear what other people with a high affinity for Disney think about this promotion that some love, and some love to hate! LOL
I hate free dining. I'm thrilled it isn't being offered for my Oct dates. Not sure about my Dec dates but I don't think it's offered then either.

Does anyone know how long free dining has been offered?
Not exactly sure...too long.

Was it ever offered when the gratuity and appetizer were included?
Free dining?? No, never. But the original dining plan covered appertizer, entree, beverage, dessert and tip. Now, they've raised the cost and taken away stuff.

Thanks for any and all feedback![/QUOTE]

Gee, I guess I'm pretty obvious...not so crazy about free dining. Really, you need to compare apples to apples when making that decision.

 

[csharpwv]

I hope I am misunderstanding some of your questions, because it seems you think this is a class of person situation which does bother me, if that is what you are asking.

If by any chance you think that free dining encourages obnoxious behavior my 30+ years of going to Disney I have seen more wealthy people act obnoxious than anyone on Free Dining.

As to feeling rushed while dining at Disney, never ever had that happen.

When I said different crowd I was referring to the masses of people that, when they thought Disney wasn't going to offer free dining this year, PLEDGED to NEVER travel to Disney again because they DESERVE that discount - and it's UNFAIR of Disney to take that Discount away! People went so far as to write nasty letters to Disney DEMANDING that they bring back free dining.

I hate, hate, hate, hate it when people feel entitled! It disgusts me more than anything else. And when I refer to a different type of crowd, I mean the people that would stop traveling to Disney altogether just because they didn't get their way! Some people won't book without it, and while I do understand that, in no way shape or form should they feel entitled to that promotion, or ANY discount for that matter!

As any DVC member knows, loyalty is expensive - DVC is one of the most expensive fractional ownership options out there. However - for most it doesn't mean that they are entitled to anything except the use of their points. Perks are great, and they sweeten the pot a little - but they aren't a requirement.

I just found the behavior childish and very off putting.

In no way does it reflect anyone that isn't written!

 

[angierae]

There is no room discount that is going to be as good as FD for two adults and two Disney adults staying moderate during peak season.

53.54x4=214.16

A room at POFQ the week before Easter 2012 is $234 a night.

Even a 60% off code is going to make my hotel room cost $93 a night, not $20.

(We were fully intending to pay rack rate + pay for DDP for our trip. Free dining came out, and we jumped on it. If Disney wants to basically give us a $1500 discount on our vacation, I'm not going to turn it down.)

So yeah, for us it really is "free" dining. Or a free hotel room, almost. But we would have went even without the promo.

 

[kerplop]

So yeah, for us it really is "free" dining. Or a free hotel room, almost. But we would have went even without the promo.

That's just my point about it. I was planning on going anyway and there was no discount during my time period for a % off, so I was paying full rack rate. But then I found out Disney was doing Free Dining for my stay and I was ecstatic as it essentially saved us $1300. It was free for us, since we didn't have any other discounts. For someone who was paying rack rate and OOP for meals anyway, it's an amazing deal. But if you're DVC or staying off-site and planning on cooking at your villa then obviously Free Dining isn't attractive to you. People shouldn't feel entitled, but for the same reason your mom told you not to feed animals because then they'd look to you for everything and not want to go back - that's what Disney has done now.

 

[housemouse]

Was it ever offered when the gratuity and appetizer were included?
Free dining?? No, never. But the original dining plan covered appertizer, entree, beverage, dessert and tip. Now, they've raised the cost and taken away stuff.

Actually free dining WAS offered when it included the appetizer, entree,beverage,dessert and tip. We had it in 2007.

 

[TDC Nala]

The dining plan has been around since 2005. Free dining has been offered since 2005 (initially a reaction to the hurricane season of 2004, where no fewer than three hurricanes influenced WDW opening and operating hours and threatened to seriously disrupt summer 2005 bookings). The appetizer and tip were removed in 2008. So for three years, 2005-2007, there was free dining that included the appetizer, entree, dessert and tip for all resort reservations.

 

[julie4423]

I guess I fall into that "class" of people as I would never book without some type of discount. I'm that way about everything though. I wouldn't buy anything full price if I knew that a discount would eventually be available. It just seems foolish to me. I'm not saying I "deserve" it, just that full price everything at WDW is a price level I'm not comfortable with. I have 3 kids and 3 college educations to pay for. Why would I spend an extra $1500+ on the same vacation?

 

[Sammie]

When I said different crowd I was referring to the masses of people that, when they thought Disney wasn't going to offer free dining this year, PLEDGED to NEVER travel to Disney again because they DESERVE that discount - and it's UNFAIR of Disney to take that Discount away! People went so far as to write nasty letters to Disney DEMANDING that they bring back free dining.

I hate, hate, hate, hate it when people feel entitled! It disgusts me more than anything else. And when I refer to a different type of crowd, I mean the people that would stop traveling to Disney altogether just because they didn't get their way! Some people won't book without it, and while I do understand that, in no way shape or form should they feel entitled to that promotion, or ANY discount for that matter!

As any DVC member knows, loyalty is expensive - DVC is one of the most expensive fractional ownership options out there. However - for most it doesn't mean that they are entitled to anything except the use of their points. Perks are great, and they sweeten the pot a little - but they aren't a requirement.

I just found the behavior childish and very off putting.

In no way does it reflect anyone that isn't written!

Thanks for the explanation which is why I asked.

 

[Cafeen]

I guess I fall into that "class" of people as I would never book without some type of discount. I'm that way about everything though. I wouldn't buy anything full price if I knew that a discount would eventually be available. It just seems foolish to me. I'm not saying I "deserve" it, just that full price everything at WDW is a price level I'm not comfortable with. I have 3 kids and 3 college educations to pay for. Why would I spend an extra $1500+ on the same vacation?

The smart class eh?

For me, while I skipped a lot and this thread is a bit off the rails of the OP, but my few cents (do I ever leave just 2?) is similar to the above. If I can get a deal for when I plan to go, I'm going to take advantage of it. If I can't, then that's fine too and I'll adjust as needed. I don't really bother shopping around much though, for anything in general. But, I have far fewer responsibilities than those "normal" people my age .

Now, I don't pick the FDP promotion (well, 2009 I did, but it was 2 of us on the plan, and next year I may, as it will be 3), but rather a room discount. I still buy the plan (well, DxDDP), but going solo and staying upper level at a mod (CSR water/preferred), it's slightly cheaper to buy the plan and use a room discount.

For those who the FDP works for them, great. For those that can only go if the FDP is offered? Even better!

 

[Sammie]

I know I will probably never change the opinions of some that do not see it as free dining.

But when you offer something without requiring you to pay for it, truly it is free.

Now, is it cheap, NO, it is a bargain, Not always.

But people do book packages that require them to pay full rack rate and buy tickets. So if that same package at the same exact price, includes meals that you do not pay extra for; how is it not Free

Now if Disney raised the package price of a free dining package to an amount more than one without the free dining, then yes you are right it is not free.

But that is not what they do.

 

[Flynn Rider]

I hate free dining. I'm thrilled it isn't being offered for my Oct dates. Not sure about my Dec dates but I don't think it's offered then either.



Was it ever offered when the gratuity and appetizer were included?
Free dining?? No, never. But the original dining plan covered appertizer, entree, beverage, dessert and tip. Now, they've raised the cost and taken away stuff.




You are wrong, Goofy4Tink, UK visitors have free dining throughout October and the dining plan including appetizer and gratuity was most definitely offered for free in 2005.