Urgent Poll - would you still book the Dining Plan if gratuity is not included?

[just another guy]

While I don't have 25,000 posts to my name, my info was and remains very accurate, and very "urgent" if you want things to stay the same..."urgent" as in the Disney/union contract voting and finalization is imminent (guess I need to spell that out instead of saying read between the lines).

I fully believe you as I was told the same info from a WDW server. One tab bit you left out(maybe to avoid the drama of posting this info) is that the proposed setup, which you talked about, also includes an automatic 18% gratutity to the DDE card holders.

 

[Katiebell]

I think a better solution would be to have the guests write in the amount of tip they think their server deserves up to the 18% (part of the dining plan) and if you want to leave an extra tip then go ahead. This would then give the servers an incentive to provide good service. Sometimes you get a bad server, sometimes the server has been assigned to many tables and are trying their best but are just rushed off their feet.

I think Disney is trying to milk the success of the DDP for all they can get and trying to disguise it by saying the waitstaff should EARN their tips instead of having it added automatically.

I agree that they should have the customer determine the amount of tip by just writing in a percentage up to 18% when signing the bill; but it should still be included in the plan.

I also think this is an interesting idea -- the max tip included in the plan is 18%, but the guests could always leave more OOP if they chose, or indicate on the ticket if the service was lacking and deserved a lower tip. If Disney didn't change the cost of the plan but only implemented this, either service would be fantastic, or Disney would save money. It would also satisfy those who feel uncomfortable with the automatic 18% gratuity.

I think an automatic 18% tip at a buffet restaurant is on the high side.

I don't think I'd purchase the dining plan if the price went up much, and dropping the tip would increase my cost by $5-$10. I think the servers would get screwed if the tip became optional.

I agree, both on the buffet tip being high (since I serve myself at a buffet, I don't ever tip that high OOP for someone to essentially bus my table), and that servers could definitely get the short end of the stick if tips were totally optional. But, the 18% tip included in the price of my DDP...doesn't bother me if that's what the buffet servers get.

If the DDP changed to not be all inclusive, the servers are the ones who would bear the brunt of the cut. Let's face it, people order expensive items on the DDP, many of whom would never order the same way if paying for each meal (at time of meal).

I doubt if many people would be as generous as an 18% tip if they do tip. If tips decline, then service will decline. If DDP becomes known as the dining plan where servers get stiffed, then the service will decline also.

I would rather the price go up then to remove a critical element of the DDP. It should be all inclusive or retired, IMHO

I agree with all points you made, Pumbaa_. If the tip was not included...I would seriously consider the AAA room discount instead, look for other package perks, and skip the DDP. DH and I might eat fewer TS meals (maybe 5 in a 7 day trip instead of 7), and when we ordered OOP we'd be more careful about entree price again, and go back to sharing appetizers and/or desserts, and probably sharing CS meals, too. Wouldn't be as much fun, but we'd eat more like we typically do, and I'm sure we could do it under $80/day.

Nothing is set in stone yet, but the union made clear they wanted it gone. After 20 some hours of straight aruging 2 days ago, this is what they came up with. Clearly the servers union is trying to get as much possible in return for losing the grat, but I don't see them getting much. It will be up for vote sometime shortly. I personally hope its voted down, and the servers strike. If they lose the grat, I see a lot of servers being stiffed by trashy lowlifes, and then quitting disney.

If the union gives it up, then as a fellow union worker, I really hope the servers get a good contract in exchange.

Some guests may stiff the servers. Some of those guests might be "trashy lowlifes" but many of those guests might not have realized gratuities were excluded until they got their check. Do you really think the marketing material, and CM assisting guests with their reservations, will be highlighting the fact that gratuities are now excluded?

Nope, I think they just won't mention gratuities at all, and will gloss that right over. I think it will be left up to the servers to point out to guests when they present their check -- "Um, oh, by the way...don't know if you've been on the dining plan before, but things have changed, and the tip is no longer included...yes, I realize that the cost didn't decrease for you, but honest, my tip is no longer part of the package...I'm sorry if that wasn't explained to you clearly when you purchased the plan this year..." How...awkward...that might be.

 

[bicker]

Nothing is set in stone yet, but the union made clear they wanted it gone.

It is amazing that that union is pushing for this. As Lewis pointed out, they'd basically be sacrificing a guaranteed gratuity for a chance that some guests may give them more. Bad choice. I hope the union doesn't end up regretting this.

If it does come to pass, we, here, need to keep in mind that the servers themselves brought about this change.

 

[bicker]

But disney could lower the price. I haven't heard anything about this, but it would shock me if they drop the grat and leave the price the same. I can see them dropping the price maybe $1-3.

They might, or maybe they'll give up on trying to enforce some of the rules or in some other way provide a better value for the price. I doubt, though, they'd have a year-over-year price increase of 18%.

 

[bicker]

This was a tad harsh :-(

It was and sorry for that. It think, though, that it was appropriate given the extreme wording it was replying to, i.e., "urgent" and "writing on the wall". We both over-wrote. There was no way to tell the difference between you and a Class A troll and the last thing these forums need is to fall victim to someone playing games like that, and some members were indeed very upset by your message. The words I wrote were factual. There was no sound foundation for believing what you wrote, because none of the members who are CMs had corroborated what you wrote.

For future reference, you should know that sometimes important info MUST be vague so that those in the know can hint at stuff without fear of losing their job (until enough people know about it that anonymity is possible).

Most of the CMs here establish connections with other long-standing members, and feed corroboration through those channels. It is a mystery why you knew something that they didn't elect to confirm through those channels, but since they prefer anonymity, there's no way to ask them why.

I am sorry if this board gets inundated with loads of b.s. rumors - Im sure it happens. Not from me.

Keep in mind that the only way you establish yourself as a reliable source is to provide valid information. You've now done so once, which puts you pretty high-up there in that regard. When you first posted your message, you didn't have that in your favor.

Again, sorry, but please understand that folks cannot come into a community cold and drop such a bomb.

To further the details that others have added to my original post, it does indeed seem gratuity is on the way out as demanded by Disney.

This contradicts an earlier message of just another guy's.

 

[bicker]

The DDP is a good deal with the tip included. Without the tip included, a lot of the value is lost.

That is a very important point. The difference between price and value should be zero. I believe in 2007, the Dining Plan was about a 14% better value than it cost (my valuation). So an 18% price increase would account for 2007's value-differential, plus a 4% price increase, which just seems a bit too much of a gap to close in one year. So I'm not expecting to see a straight "gratuities are not included" change.

And I do not believe at all that Disney will lower the cost of the dining plan, certainly not more than a token dollar or two

That token dollar or two would even things out in my book. Of course, evening things out is not necessarily the best approach, but at least there is logic associated with it.

If it becomes common knowledge that is the practice, would groups be more likely to break up into parties of 5 or less when making their ADR's to avoid being automatically charged that gratuity?

I don't think so. Automatic gratuities are already pretty common for large groups in restaurants nationwide, yet I don't think many groups deliberately break up into smaller parties to avoid it.

 

[DISNEYFAMILYOFFOUR]

I scanned through most of these posts, but I did not see any mention as to when this would be effective.

 

[bicker]

It has not yet been decided yet what changes, if any, would actually be implemented. It's still in the speculation stage.

 

[milmore104]

Yes I would still get the DDP. It's still a good deal. We usually tip extra anyway.

 

[Lewisc]

Re-read the post you quoted. I think what was said, or at least meant, was the union said they (MEANING DISNEY) wanted it gone.

Disney promotes the meal plan as giving guests a 40% savings on their food costs. That may be overly generous but without the expectation of some savings I would never pre-pay for my meals nor would I subject myself to the requirements of a package.

It is amazing that that union is pushing for this. As Lewis pointed out, they'd basically be sacrificing a guaranteed gratuity for a chance that some guests may give them more. Bad choice. I hope the union doesn't end up regretting this.

If it does come to pass, we, here, need to keep in mind that the servers themselves brought about this change.

 

[k5thbeatle]

We don't use the dining plan as we feel it is a bad deal. So I guess NO is the answer.

...Disney promotes the meal plan as giving guests a 40% savings on their food costs. That may be overly generous but without the expectation of some savings I would never pre-pay for my meals nor would I subject myself to the requirements of a package.

That pretty much sums up our feelings.

 

[DISNEYFAMILYOFFOUR]

It has not yet been decided yet what changes, if any, would actually be implemented. It's still in the speculation stage.

Thanks--that is what I thought. I guess I am curious to see how they would implement it if it does happen. We purchased our DDP for our next trip while tip was still included. I would have to think that they would have to honor that if the change takes place prior to our trip.

 

[Katiebell]

It is amazing that that union is pushing for this. As Lewis pointed out, they'd basically be sacrificing a guaranteed gratuity for a chance that some guests may give them more. Bad choice. I hope the union doesn't end up regretting this.

Not so amazing, if there are other, more important things on the table. My union worked without a contract for months because the things management was trying to take away from us were so important we couldn't give up the fight (like medical benefits that had been promised to our retirees -- the ones already retired who rely on those benefits). We had to give up some things we wanted so we wouldn't lose some things we needed.

If it does come to pass, we, here, need to keep in mind that the servers themselves brought about this change.

If it happens, it doesn't mean the servers asked for it or wanted it to happen -- it means that they were forced to compromise, and some other things were ultimately more important. Sometimes there is really no choice, and you have to swallow the bitter along with the sweet. If the servers lose the automatic 18% gratuity, they may get less in tips, but it doesn't mean that they'll get nothing at all. Reasonable people will still tip a reasonable amount for reasonable service, just as they do if they are not on the plan and are paying OOP.

 

[Katiebell]

Re-read the post you quoted. I think what was said, or at least meant, was the union said they (MEANING DISNEY) wanted it gone.

I think he really did mean that the servers union was pushing for the drop of the automatic gratuity in exchange for more important things they want, but I'm not sure, and hope he will come back to clarify. He said, "Nothing is set in stone yet, but the union made clear they wanted it gone. After 20 some hours of straight aruging 2 days ago, this is what they came up with. Clearly the servers union is trying to get as much possible in return for losing the grat, but I don't see them getting much." I think "they" in both sentences is referring to the servers' union.

Disney promotes the meal plan as giving guests a 40% savings on their food costs. That may be overly generous but without the expectation of some savings I would never pre-pay for my meals nor would I subject myself to the requirements of a package.

ITA. It is advertised and promoted as a way for vacationing families to save money. If it's not a savings -- and a significant enough savings to bother with it -- then there's no point to purchasing the plan. Just the convenience of prepaying for food wouldn't be worth the obligation.

If the gratuity is dropped from the plan, ultimately Disney guests will take the hit. Unless the price of the plan drops significantly, the OOP cost for eating at Disney will go up because they will have to budget extra money for tipping over and above the base cost of the plan. Also, if the tip is coming out of their pocket at the point of purchase, people may, consciously or unconsciously, make less expensive choices from the menu. Why order 3 courses if you know you can't finish them all, and will have to pay OOP for the tip on the full menu price of each of those items? If you order the most expensive appetizer, steak, and deluxe dessert on the menu, the tip you pay will be a lot higher than if you order salad, chicken, and a less pricey dessert -- or no dessert at all.

 

[bicker]

Re-read the post you quoted. I think what was said, or at least meant, was the union said they (MEANING DISNEY) wanted it gone.

Hmmm... re-read the post... it would have to be really bad wording to mean what you suggest. Disney isn't even mentioned until the last word in the message.

 

[bicker]

If it happens, it doesn't mean the servers asked for it or wanted it to happen -- it means that they were forced to compromise, and some other things were ultimately more important.

Of course. The point I was making, though, is that this isn't something being imposed on them unilaterally. It goes back to the whole "fault" thing we're discussing. There's accountability in all directions, so fault is not applicable.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

So, what is the true reason for these actions...

Is it a bargaining tool because of something else wanted on the part of Disney, or the Union?

Is the DDP not bringing in the income Disney hoped for?

If so, why offer it for free three years in a row when a huge room discount probably would have brought just as many people to the parks?

As I mentioned previously, it doesn't matter as much to me as it does to others because I would never purchase the DDP anyway due to the pricing structure for children. Until my kids get old enough to actually eat a full adult entree...my money stays in my wallet.

Have we confirmed yet whether or not this is definitely going into effect next year or would it be sooner?

 

[gina2000]

That is a very important point. The difference between price and value should be zero. I believe in 2007, the Dining Plan was about a 14% better value than it cost (my valuation). So an 18% price increase would account for 2007's value-differential, plus a 4% price increase, which just seems a bit too much of a gap to close in one year. So I'm not expecting to see a straight "gratuities are not included" change.

That token dollar or two would even things out in my book. Of course, evening things out is not necessarily the best approach, but at least there is logic associated with it.

I don't think so. Automatic gratuities are already pretty common for large groups in restaurants nationwide, yet I don't think many groups deliberately break up into smaller parties to avoid it.

I have to admit, I'm scratching my head with your "14% better value than it cost comment". I wandered over to Deb's to look at menus, chose dinner menues in all parks (and some resort hotels), chose the lowest priced appetizers, entrees and desserts unilaterally and still came up with mid to high $20s in terms of cost without tip. Then I would need to add on the cost of a snack ($3-4) and the cost of a CS meal. DDP's cost is more than 14% lower using the cheapest scenarios I could find (excluding burgers for dinner and the less expensive buffets). That or the menus are so overpriced that it makes DDP look REALLY good. You can't have it both ways.

Also, since WDW hasn't released data as to what % of people order 3 courses verses 2 either on or off the plan, that can't be used. Nor does it release what percentage of the patrons order expensive verses inexpensive meals. So I'm at a loss as to where you came up with the magic number.

 

[gina2000]

I truly believe WDW offered the DDP with the idea of creating an all-inclusive type vacation package. I think they didn't reckon with the creativeness of people and servers to get the most value for the buck (including using children's credits for adult TS meals and/or servers up-selling the product). We don't know what they are or aren't negotiating for with the servers' unions.

I also believe that WDW has to fill resort space. Alot of it looks like white elephant space because it hasn't been filled adequately since 9/11 with or without a discount. The DDP was just another incentive to pull people in. For awhile, it looked really good. Once the menus changed and now with further changes pending, it doesn't really appear all that attractive. We shall see.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

I have to admit, I'm scratching my head with your "14% better value than it cost comment".

He said it was based on his valuation...I took that to mean what he would order if paying out of pocket.

I feel my family would fall into the same category...we would never order an appetizer, my kids normally go with a pasta dish (which are typically lower than steaks or seafood), we usually just get water to drink, and at most we would order two desserts to share between four people. That would significantly lower the cost of our meal.