Ringling Brothers Circus to Close

[scdak]

I can't wait to see the show in Tampa on 1/23/17, I haven't been since I was a young girl and my best friend has never gone, I bought tickets before I knew the news and now I am so happy that I splurged on the event! We are both all about "making memories" now as we get older (54/56) and this will be an awesome memory to have esp to see the first female ringmaster!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

My dad worked at Ringling Brothers for about 3 years

Because of that, he would never take us kids to see them

What were his reasons?

I have mixed feelings. Sad to see such an old institution close, but I think there was a lot of suffering involved over many years, as well. It's sort of like cigarette smoking - years ago, people didn't realize how bad it was. Same with the circus, maybe - years ago it may have been ok to whip and mistreat people and animals, but today, we know better. Many people weren't aware of what went on behind the scenes, but let's just say that an elephant standing on one leg on a little box doesn't happen magically; it's a long, torturous process to get there.

 

[bcla]

What were his reasons?

I have mixed feelings. Sad to see such an old institution close, but I think there was a lot of suffering involved over many years, as well. It's sort of like cigarette smoking - years ago, people didn't realize how bad it was. Same with the circus, maybe - years ago it may have been ok to whip and mistreat people and animals, but today, we know better. Many people weren't aware of what went on behind the scenes, but let's just say that an elephant standing on one leg on a little box doesn't happen magically; it's a long, torturous process to get there.

I'm kind of torn on it. I remember going on a vacation in Thailand where I visited an elephant farm and saw a show. I saw them using bull hooks, thinking it was cruel. Then I visited a local theme park (Marine World) that had Asian elephants. Their handlers were also using bull hooks. I know it looks bad, but animal handlers and the American Veterinary Medical Association claim that they can be used humanely. The rationale is that they have a thick hide, and prodding with the hook produces a mild discomfort that gets their attention, maybe like pulling back at a dog on a leash. In any case. Several cities where Ringling Brothers would do shows outlawed the use of bull hooks, such as Los Angeles and Oakland. A state law banning the use was passed in California last year.

 

[MillauFr]

Barnum just needed to evolve but they seemed stuck in the past. Cirque du Solei is doing great.

 

[macraven]

What were his reasons?

I have mixed feelings. Sad to see such an old institution close, but I think there was a lot of suffering involved over many years, as well. It's sort of like cigarette smoking - years ago, people didn't realize how bad it was. Same with the circus, maybe - years ago it may have been ok to whip and mistreat people and animals, but today, we know better. Many people weren't aware of what went on behind the scenes, but let's just say that an elephant standing on one leg on a little box doesn't happen magically; it's a long, torturous process to get there.

He worked with the elephants

Had a team of 3 assigned to him

Trained and took care of them

He was so attached to one of them, he slept near her when she was not well

He left because he disagreed with management in the care for his elephants

Our family spent a lot of time while growing up, to go to zoos
Of couse we always went to see the elephants first and repeated that before leaving the zoos

He worked with Robbins Bros Circus first then on to ringling
Both with elephants

You know how a dad will buy his newborn baby a gift...

Mine was a stuffed animal, elephant
Lol

 

[RangerPooh]

I have fond memories of my parents taking my brother and I to see them perform at both the Oakland Coliseum and the Cow Palace in Daily City (both are located in the SF Bay Area). The last show I was was probably about 25-28 years ago. Even at that time I had mixed feelings about it over the treatment of animals. While it's sad to see them come to a close, it's probably about time that this sort of entertainment phases out. Personally we have never taken or children to the circus. A few years ago I looked up RB prices for an weekend show in Spokane, WA tickets were roughly $40/person before fees. Passed.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

Can't say I'm sad
I've never taken my kids

 

[chartle]

There's opportunities for clowns. There are a bunch of fixed location circuses and a few touring companies. They probably need to change their act for a different style of circus.

Ringling Brothers also traveled by train. They may have been the last circus to do so.

In Pittsburgh they unload the train at a rail yard a couple of blocks down the street from where I work. I would see the small circus trailers rolling down the street on the way to the area they use a couple of miles away. I think they used to move the elephants early in the morning.

 

[hereyago]

I used to love taking dd to see it, but I hadn't taken her in years. We still have a blue elephant cup that we got with a snow cone.

Last werk, we had a lot of snow for our area. Days leading up, I kept hearing people recall in the 80's Ringling came and the audience had to stay in the coliseum with then because of the weather.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I never really liked circuses, so I'm not upset that it's closing. I did suck it up and take DS once when he was little, so now I'm kind of glad I did that before he lost the chance.

 

[teller80]

I didn't know they got rid of elephants, do they still have other large animals? If so, I'm glad to see the end. It always bothered me to see people make animals perform for our amusement, living in a cage being transported from city to city.

 

[AppleDumpling]

I have mixed feelings too. As a kid, I remember Gunther Gebel-Williams and loved seeing the beautiful tigers. It was exciting and entertaining, and we didn't think much back then about animal rights.

I feel bad for the human performers-- the talented acrobats, trapeze artists etc., many of whom come from long-standing circus families that go back generations. I hope they are able to find work with other companies.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I'm kind of torn on it. I remember going on a vacation in Thailand where I visited an elephant farm and saw a show. I saw them using bull hooks, thinking it was cruel. Then I visited a local theme park (Marine World) that had Asian elephants. Their handlers were also using bull hooks. I know it looks bad, but animal handlers and the American Veterinary Medical Association claim that they can be used humanely. The rationale is that they have a thick hide, and prodding with the hook produces a mild discomfort that gets their attention, maybe like pulling back at a dog on a leash. In any case. Several cities where Ringling Brothers would do shows outlawed the use of bull hooks, such as Los Angeles and Oakland. A state law banning the use was passed in California last year.

It is interesting reading through the various stances on this, ie elephant captivity, "training", and the use of bull hooks, etc.

Basically, here are two main viewpoints in the U.S., from Voices for Elephants, and the AVMA. (Voices for Elephants seems to be the group that helped get the banning accomplished in CA.)

https://www.elephantvoices.org/elephants-in-captivity-7/about-the-bull-hook.html

https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/LiteratureReviews/Pages/Elephant-Training-Backgrounder.aspx

National Geographic weighs in, too.

http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2013/05/03/no-ethical-way-to-keep-elephants-in-captivity/

You mentioned dog collars and mild discomfort. They've looked at the tracheas of dogs and found them to be partially collapsed in some cases, because people don't understand that pulling and tugging there can do a lot of harm. It seems to be the case with the bull hook, too, especially if used incorrectly, on one the many sensitive areas on an elephant. But the bull hook, unfortunately, isn't the worst of it. There are far more sinister things done to elephants to get them to submit. A friend of mine visited an elephant sanctuary in Thailand recently. She told me a sad story. (Highlighting for sensitivity - change color to black if you want to read it.) Some of them had had their eyes shot out with slingshots for misbehavior. There are lots of other horrible - wait, unimaginable - things done to elephants to get them to submit. To do this to an elephant - or any animal (or person), really - in the name of entertainment, is something that I just can't get behind. I think things have changed for the better in recent years, but there are still a lot of small shows that use animals. (Google the story of an elephant named Raju if you want to see how awful an elephant's life can be in captivity. I'm sure his story isn't one of the worst, either. Granted, it is not the U.S., but some of the methods used have also been used in the U.S.)

 

[ronandannette]

Well there's my ringmaster apprenticeship out the window

Yep, what are we going threaten to run away and join now?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

He worked with the elephants

Had a team of 3 assigned to him

Trained and took care of them

He was so attached to one of them, he slept near her when she was not well

He left because he disagreed with management in the care for his elephants

Our family spent a lot of time while growing up, to go to zoos
Of couse we always went to see the elephants first and repeated that before leaving the zoos

He worked with Robbins brothers first then on to ringling
Both with elephants

You know how a dad will buy his newborn baby a gift...

Mine was a stuffed animal, elephant
Lol

I'm glad your father was there for them. He must have some difficult memories.

 

[chartle]

I feel bad for the human performers-- the talented acrobats, trapeze artists etc., many of whom come from long-standing circus families that go back generations. I hope they are able to find work with other companies.

What about all the Clowns there will now be hundreds of out of work clowns roaming the streets making balloon animals and throwing buckets of confetti on people.

But seriously I think there is still a major circus presence in Europe and there should still be many non traveling entertainment venues like Vegas where they could go.

But really think about the clowns, for professionals, a circus is their main source of employment. An entire culture may be lost. Oh and I have no issues with clowns.

 

[Micca]

Yep, what are we going threaten to run away and join now?

The Rolling Stones?

 

[bcla]

You mentioned dog collars and mild discomfort. They've looked at the tracheas of dogs and found them to be partially collapsed in some cases, because people don't understand that pulling and tugging there can do a lot of harm. It seems to be the case with the bull hook, too, especially if used incorrectly, on one the many sensitive areas on an elephant. But the bull hook, unfortunately, isn't the worst of it.

There has to be restraint of course. The handlers should only use them sparingly and gently.

As far as pulling on a chain goes, it was worse when choke collars were used. On top of that, I see a lot more dogs leashed to harnesses rather than to the collar. The idea of pulling is to get the dog's attention and not to cause pain.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

There has to be restraint of course. The handlers should only use them sparingly and gently.

As far as pulling on a chain goes, it was worse when choke collars were used. On top of that, I see a lot more dogs leashed to harnesses rather than to the collar. The idea of pulling is to get the dog's attention and not to cause pain.

I agree with both, but unfortunately, don't think it's the reality much of the time.

 

[RedAngie]

Yep, what are we going threaten to run away and join now?

Don't worry. There are still plenty of sleazy traveling carnival troupes around.