My Rant on tipping

[tloft]

They also receive training in their trade.

Is this to imply that somehow US servers aren't trained and are inferior to European servers?

 

[TLSnell1981]

Is this to imply that somehow US servers aren't trained and are inferior to European servers?

Not at all. In the european equivalent of high school, kids actually choose to go on to college or to learn a trade. They do not generally wait until they are out of high school to start studying or training for their profession. Most U.S. servers receive on the job training, more or less. There was no insult intended. Some people are more suited to college than others. I think your education should include what you expect to do (job wise) when it is completed.

 

[tloft]

Not at all. In the european equivalent of high school, kids actually choose to go on to college or to learn a trade. They do not generally wait until they are out of high school to start studying or training for their profession. Most U.S. servers receive on the job training, more or less. There was no insult intended. Some people are more suited to college than others. I think your education should include what you expect to do (job wise) when it is completed.

That why I asked before jumping on that. I agree with that for the most part but could still construe the "some people are more suited to college than others" to imply that the employees you encounter at restaurants aren't college material or just fell into their career. Sorry if I'm misreading it. At my restaurant 7 of 8 employees have college degrees 4 of them in a culinary or hospitality field. The youngest is 28 years old and I would consider all of them professionals in this industry, and this is their career. I would expect them to be treated with the same dignity and respect as any other professional in any other field.

 

[tndisneyfan]

Putting the money one intends to tip, in a cup or on the table, and informing the server that this is where their tip starts - and maybe I'm reading a different post but I see NOTHING in that one that implies that the diner would ever be ADDING to the saucer (and I've seen this so-called 'advice' before) - is tantamount to one's boss in any job placing the person's wage on a desk, telling them that this is where their pay starts, and then removing money based on percieved performance.

Trying to lighten the mood here a little. This post reminds me of that TV show Third Rock From the Sun. John Lithgow didn't understand about tipping so he put money on the table and told the waitress this was her highest potential tip. He took money away when the server mixed up his and Jane Curtain's drinks, then Jane Curtain wanted to know why her drink tasted funny. Really funny episode.

BAck on subject, I would hate for someone to do that to me. I wouldn't want money dangled in from of my face like that.

 

[sjaakie]

The restaurants I have dined at in Europe have the service included. It is not, per se, a separate service charge. The price you see on the menu includes everything. Servers in other countries make nowhere near what is possible here in the states. They also receive training in their trade. So you are really not making a fair comparison to restaurants that automatically add a percentage....whether it is included in the menu price or on your check.

I do think the European system works much better. I also like the fact that all their prices already have the tax included.

We dined in the Netherlands, France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Luxemburg and Belgium and there’s no tipping.
If you like the server personal you MAY give him a tip but its not a common use.

Strangely in Austria you have to rent the plates and silver.

There’s a special amount on the bill for using it but you can read that also on the menu.


In my country its even a law that all prices in shops ore restaurants ore where ever MUST include taxes.

If I'm not mistaking its an EU law also.

 

[sjaakie]

Not at all. In the european equivalent of high school, kids actually choose to go on to college or to learn a trade. They do not generally wait until they are out of high school to start studying or training for their profession.

That’s thru.

They work mostly in the profession they choose in the weekend ore in case of a waiter in the evening.
My son's friend is in training for chef kook but he also has to wait on people to learn all the inns and outs of the profession.
So the chef knows how difficult a customer could be.

Last week he served our food and I tipped him very well

 

[tloft]

We dined in the Netherlands, France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Luxemburg and Belgium and there’s no tipping.
If you like the server personal you MAY give him a tip but its not a common use.

The Netherlands
Tip customs lean on the generous side in the Netherlands' larger cities; the Dutch tip smaller amounts in smaller cities and towns. In Amsterdam and other major cities, restaurants normally include a service charge of 5%. Tip 10% extra if you've really enjoyed the meal and you got good service, and leave the tip as change rather than putting it on your credit card. If you're not satisfied, don't leave anything.

France
Bills in bars and restaurants include 15% service, but it is customary to round out your bill with some small change unless you're dissatisfied. The amount of this varies: anywhere from €.10 if you've merely bought a beer, to €2 after a meal.

Germany
Service is included in the price of your bill, but it is customary to leave a 10% tip. Pay the waiter directly rather than leave any money or a tip on the table. If service is poor, round the bill up to the next euro and leave it at that.

Austria
Although virtually all restaurants include a 10% service charge, tipping 5%-7% is customary. You can tip a little more if you've received exceptional service.

Switzerland
Despite all protests to the contrary and menus marked service compris, the Swiss do tip at restaurants, giving quantities anywhere from the change from the nearest franc to 10 SF or more for a world-class meal that has been exquisitely served. If, in a café, the server settles the bill at the table, calculate the total, including tip, and tell her the total sum you'd like to pay. If you need more time to calculate, you may leave the tip on the table, though this isn't common practice in outdoor cafés. If you're paying for a meal with a credit card, try to tip in cash.

Belgium
A tip may be included; if it is, you'll see a clear indication on the bill. If service is not included, people often round up a bit when paying, but it isn't offensive to pay the exact amount.

I've never been to any of these countries but I will consider Fodors a reputable source on international travel. If anything I think it highlights that gratuity is just as convoluted elsewhere. According to Fodors it is customary to leave some sort of tip in all of these cities but Belgium. My only point is that a lot of people believe switching to a European method would make things better here. There doesn't appear to be any uniformity to it and appears just as complicated, misunderstood, and controversial. Someone from Holland that has traveled extensively insists there is no tipping in these countries. Professional travels writers contend that there is.

 

[sjaakie]

The Netherlands
Tip customs lean on the generous side in the Netherlands' larger cities; the Dutch tip smaller amounts in smaller cities and towns. In Amsterdam and other major cities, restaurants normally include a service charge of 5%. Tip 10% extra if you've really enjoyed the meal and you got good service, and leave the tip as change rather than putting it on your credit card. If you're not satisfied, don't leave anything.

France
Bills in bars and restaurants include 15% service, but it is customary to round out your bill with some small change unless you're dissatisfied. The amount of this varies: anywhere from €.10 if you've merely bought a beer, to €2 after a meal.

Germany
Service is included in the price of your bill, but it is customary to leave a 10% tip. Pay the waiter directly rather than leave any money or a tip on the table. If service is poor, round the bill up to the next euro and leave it at that.

Austria
Although virtually all restaurants include a 10% service charge, tipping 5%-7% is customary. You can tip a little more if you've received exceptional service.

Switzerland
Despite all protests to the contrary and menus marked service compris, the Swiss do tip at restaurants, giving quantities anywhere from the change from the nearest franc to 10 SF or more for a world-class meal that has been exquisitely served. If, in a café, the server settles the bill at the table, calculate the total, including tip, and tell her the total sum you'd like to pay. If you need more time to calculate, you may leave the tip on the table, though this isn't common practice in outdoor cafés. If you're paying for a meal with a credit card, try to tip in cash.

Belgium
A tip may be included; if it is, you'll see a clear indication on the bill. If service is not included, people often round up a bit when paying, but it isn't offensive to pay the exact amount.

I've never been to any of these countries but I will consider Fodors a reputable source on international travel. If anything I think it highlights that gratuity is just as convoluted elsewhere. According to Fodors it is customary to leave some sort of tip in all of these cities but Belgium. My only point is that a lot of people believe switching to a European method would make things better here. There doesn't appear to be any uniformity to it and appears just as complicated, misunderstood, and controversial. Someone from Holland that has traveled extensively insists there is no tipping in these countries. Professional travels writers contend that there is.

That's a book a no reality.
Why do you think that American tourist are so welkom?
They read that book.

You MAY give a tipp but its something extra and not something a waiter ore his family has to live from.

 

[tloft]

That's a book a no reality.
Why do you think that American tourist are so welkom?
They read that book.

You MAY give a tipp but its something extra and not something a waiter ore his family has to live from.

well another quick check shows the Frommers - not only the original American authority on European travel, but the authority on budget travel also acknowledges that additional gratuity is common if not required in the same countries.

All I know is that there are people here that believe a nice compliment is sufficient so obviously in areas where the tip is lower it is bound to be even more confused. Regardless, the cost of dining in any of these countries is considerably more expensive than here in the U.S.

 

[tloft]

Gratuity advice from people in each respective country:

http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/eurotips.htm

 

[sjaakie]

Gratuity advice from people in each respective country:

http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/eurotips.htm

I rest my case and you winn
Go ahead and tipp.


O yes and I bought these books also about America and found a whole other reality that they wrote. As a matter of fact your far more lovely than in these books.

 

[tloft]

I rest my case and you winn
Go ahead and tipp.

I'm not coming to Europe anytime soon so it doesn't concern me. It is just disingenuous of people to act like it is so simple everywhere else but here.

 

[bicker]

Thanks tloft for the excellent information and insightful comments.

 

[sjaakie]

Thanks tloft for the excellent information and insightful comments.

Just anther tip. My mother visited Russia last year and the people are very gratefull for paintablets,pantys and candy.

 

[TLSnell1981]

That's a book a no reality.
Why do you think that American tourist are so welkom?
They read that book.

You MAY give a tipp but its something extra and not something a waiter ore his family has to live from.

Your statement is very correct. I do tip even when I go across the pond, but not as much as I do here. It is a true gratuity.

 

[sjaakie]

Your statement is very correct. I do tip even when I go across the pond, but not as much as I do here. It is a true gratuity.

One of my friends works in the Disney Hotel in Paris. She always says that the American and Arabic quests tipp so generous she feels its sometimes a bitt overdone.

So your just very good tippers

Its just a diffrence between two continents.

 

[TLSnell1981]

One of my friends works in the Disney Hotel in Paris. She always says that the American and Arabic quests tipp so generous she feels its sometimes a bitt overdone.

So your just very good tippers

Its just a diffrence between two continents.

The first time I went over, I was told I was too generous. My step-father has many friends and colleagues in France and Germany. They were constantly reminding me that I was giving too much.....and went on to explain the difference in pay for servers and local customs.

 

[TheDizDad]

Is five of the same post some kind of record? Sorry about that, folks!

No...it's called "post whoring."
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=post+whoring In case someone needs a reference.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Ouch! It really WAS due to the boards acting up! Honestly! I mean, I really don't need to boost my post count!

 

[TheDizDad]

As far as the whole tipping thing, I think the tip should reflect the type of service the customer received. I know the restaurants can be a busy place at a Disney resort. I understand the whole crying kids thing. It is the parents responsibility to keep their kids in line. I understand the large party thing. If a server can't handle it...don't take it. I always would set some ground rules with large parties. Tell them that I do have other tables and that when I come to theirs that they be ready to tell me everything they need at one time...not each time I came back with something. If the server has a difficult table...don't take it out on the other tables. I waited tables for 7 years. I know what a server is going through. I am more lenient when we eat out. But if I am paying $100 for a meal...the service has to be better than what I get at "Denny's." I have a list of things that bring a tip down in my mind.
1) Forgetting to bring something.
2) Screwing up an order. (especially from a server that doesn't write the orders down and tries to remember them)
3) Not watching drink levels.
4) Rude waiter/waitress.
5) Disappearing waiter/waitress.
6) No check backs.
7) Bad or undercooked food. Only if a replacement takes too long to get back out or not offered.
8) Too many excuses.
9) Can't understand them. (needs no explanation)
10) Appearance.
11) Smells like a cigarette.
12) No menu knowledge.
This is my opinion. I am positive that someone will disagree. TheDizMom and I usually tip between 15 and 20%. We have gone lower. Sometimes we disagree on the level of service when it comes to tip amount. She is more liberal. But she is a democrat and I am a republican. There are some things I am forgetting...but I am done typing for a while. Don't want to get carpal tunnel.