Monorail To Everywhere - How Cool Would That Be?

[bytheblood]

And while we are on the subject of the monorail:

Legend: “The reason the Walt Disney World Monorail system has not been expanded is that it would cost a million dollars per mile.”

Status: False

The figure of a million dollars per mile keeps coming up in Internet discussions about expanding the Walt Disney World Monorail system. Someone will post that it would certainly be nice if Walt Disney World would replace the stinky diesel bus fleet with sleek “highway in the sky” Monorail lines. Then, someone will reply that they heard that the cost would be a hefty million dollars per mile, and that’s just prohibitive.

Actually, if the Walt Disney Company could add ten miles to the Monorail system for just $10 million, they would jump at the opportunity. The truth is that the cost would be much, much higher.

The Las Vegas Monorail, which opened in 2004, cost $654 million for just 4.4 miles. It uses the same Bombardier technology as the Walt Disney World Monorail. Bombardier acquired the technology from Disney. There were some issues in Las Vegas—such as having to deal with many various property owners, structures in the right-of-way, and municipal politics—that Disney would not face. So maybe Disney could hold the costs under $100 million per mile.

A Monorail expansion would a be huge capital expense that would not generate direct revenue. Sure, Monorails could reduce bus fleet expenses. And, for guests, the Monorails add to the “magic” of a Disney vacation. But it’s still hard to justify the business expense, even if Disney could hold the costs to “only” $50 million per mile.

The Walt Disney World Monorail has not been expanded since the opening of the Epcot line in 1982. It’s safe to say that the reason is cost—a much higher cost than the oft-repeated million dollars per mile.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

Also, I have to clarify - I'm not saying that WDW made serious consideration to a monorail expansion to WL, only that the building was designed so that a monorail stop was a possibility.

1) Actually, no.
2) There has never been a design for a monorail station at Wilderness Lodge.
3) Also, the squares on Swan/Dolphin are architecture, not a monorail entrance.
4) I know it would be nice to think of monorails, but none were considered.

 

[Rudi610]

I've looked at Mapquest and it seems that an expansion to the Epcot resorts is possible, logistically. If you look at the birds-eye view, coming out of the Epcot station, the track could loop around towards the Epcot resorts with a station at the Beach/Yacht club hotels and possibly another at the Swan/Dolphin. Then it could loop back up towards the TTC. This arrangement works good for the morning rush. However, the only problem I see with this scenario, would be the evening rush hour. Epcot resort guest coming back from the MK would have the trains jammed when it stopped at the Epcot station to pick up passengers (so that hardly anyone could get on). One solution could be to run an express for MK that does not stop at the Epcot station. Or (and this could be tricky), at sometime during the evening before the parks close, they could switch the direction of the trains. That way, MK would drop off Epcot resort passengers before heading to the Epcot station then back to the TTC. This last one could have safety implications if it is not executed properly (ie, a head on collision if the timing is off). Just my thoughts.

 

[B&WMickey]

The biggest deterrent to building monorails to all resorts and theme-parks is the huge amount of TERMINAL SPACE it would require.

Look how big TTC is with just the THREE monorails there.
How big would if need to be to handle two, to ten more trains at the same junction?

And there WOULD need to be a central junction, as there would be NO WAY to send multiple monorails (at least the kind they are using NOW) to multiple parks (individually).

Now, imagine what TTC would look like will virtually ALL guests from 4 theme-parks and X number of resorts "changing trains" going to/from parks/resorts/parking lots at or near opening or closing times... even if the times were "staggered". (YIKES!)

AND...
There would STILL be the need for X number of buses going to/from at least some of the resorts... and for "back-up" should there be a problem with the monorail(s) or the track(s).

With WDW as large and varied as it has become... a conventional monorail system (as they have now) would not be very practical on a larger scale, even if its cost to build was lower.

OTOH, there was talk for awhile (within the last 10-15 years) of using a DIFFERENT KIND of monorail system at WDW with much smaller cars that could be more easily "re-routed" on the tracks (think of the cars as rather large "traveling elevators") as needs changed throughout the day. This system is still closer to being "experimental". Another flaw with this system is it would not be able handle a substantial of people per car at any given time, so it would require MANY cars... and there could be significant safety issues with more and more cars operating at once.

It’s all about practicality; well OK price has a lot to do with it too.

Of course don’t get me wrong. I love the monorail and have often caught myself daydreaming about the same thing, having everything connected via the monorail. It is one of the most iconic things about WDW.

When you take a good look at a monorail versus a normal train you quickly realize that you can’t just switch a monorail from track to track as quickly as you can with a rail based train.

Granted there have been technological improvements over the years that would make it easier but I don’t know how practical any of them would be in being able to move the amount of monorail traffic that would be required at WDW.

You’d have to assume there would be several trunk lines connecting major attractions and then like branches off a tree there would be shorter lines connecting the various resorts to the mainline track. This would require switching mechanisms at all of these points. Of course you’d need multiple sets of tracks to carry multi directional traffic, which means more switching points.

The switching process would have to be seamless and almost instantaneous or the entire monorail grid would grind to a halt. Case in point. Have you ever been on the monorail when they are adding a new train to the loop. They have to stop every monorail on the system so they can switch the tracks to bring a new one on. You wind up standing still for at least 5 minutes. Now imagine this process repeating every time a monorail has to transfer from one track to another to get where it is going on a totally connected monorail WDW.

If modern switching mechanisms aren’t up to snuff then some kind of mega TTC type of facilities would be needed. Once again just not very practical.

 

[joelkfla]

My idea is to extend the monorail south to DHS and DAK, and reroute the Epcot line northward to the MK. The monorail would be strictly a trunk line serving all 4 parks and the TTC.

Each park would be a hub, connected to nearby resorts by a local circulator system. The existing resort monorail would contine to serve the MK resorts from the MK. At the other hubs, buses would eventually be replaced by people movers or PRT -- Personal Rapid Transit, which uses small vehicles (up to 6 passengers) that are automatically routed on demand.

As an example, POR & OKW resorts are literally right across the road from Epcot; SSR is just a bit further down the road. They would be perfect for a people mover loop connecting with an Epcot hub.

Another loop could serve the Epcot resorts from DHS; etc.

A crosstown line would run from CSR to DTD, connecting with the trunk at DHS. This could be light rail, monorail, or a higher capacity people mover. That line could extend to BB & All-Stars, or they could be served by a loop from AK.

In order to keep travel times reasonable, and handle the higher traffic volume, the monorail trunk line would have to be significantly upgraded. Trains would have to run every couple of minutes during mornings and park exits, without compromising speed. And reliability would also need to be much better than it is today.

I think all of this is technically feasible today. It's also enormously expensive, so I don't really expect it to happen.

But it's fun to dream up an ideal system.

 

[igk]

Given the cost, it makes you wonder how the original monorail ever got built in the first place. If not the original monorail then the additional cost of the Epcot line added to the cost of building Epcot in the first place must have been incredible...

 

[Pineapple Whip]

And while we are on the subject of the monorail:

Legend: “The reason the Walt Disney World Monorail system has not been expanded is that it would cost a million dollars per mile.”

Status: False

The figure of a million dollars per mile keeps coming up in Internet discussions about expanding the Walt Disney World Monorail system. Someone will post that it would certainly be nice if Walt Disney World would replace the stinky diesel bus fleet with sleek “highway in the sky” Monorail lines. Then, someone will reply that they heard that the cost would be a hefty million dollars per mile, and that’s just prohibitive.

Actually, if the Walt Disney Company could add ten miles to the Monorail system for just $10 million, they would jump at the opportunity. The truth is that the cost would be much, much higher.

The Las Vegas Monorail, which opened in 2004, cost $654 million for just 4.4 miles. It uses the same Bombardier technology as the Walt Disney World Monorail. Bombardier acquired the technology from Disney. There were some issues in Las Vegas—such as having to deal with many various property owners, structures in the right-of-way, and municipal politics—that Disney would not face. So maybe Disney could hold the costs under $100 million per mile.

A Monorail expansion would a be huge capital expense that would not generate direct revenue. Sure, Monorails could reduce bus fleet expenses. And, for guests, the Monorails add to the “magic” of a Disney vacation. But it’s still hard to justify the business expense, even if Disney could hold the costs to “only” $50 million per mile.

The Walt Disney World Monorail has not been expanded since the opening of the Epcot line in 1982. It’s safe to say that the reason is cost—a much higher cost than the oft-repeated million dollars per mile.

Deal. I will expand the monorail for WDW at a cost of $50,000,000 per mile. I will run it from AK / AKL to at least near each resort, and over to DTD, DHS, and even the water parks. I will also have it done by 2015 if they get me started on it this year.

 

[doconeill]

I thought everyone on here knew by now that the lore of the black squares was false...but it was one of the bits of "trivia" the boat skippers and bus drivers were armed with which perpetuated the myth...

Will remember to clarify what I meant in the future

 

[Goofy4]

If you go up to the third floor in the lobby and look out the front of the resort, you can walk out onto what was designed as a potential monorail loading area. So it was at least considered in the process.

I walked out there and wondered what in the world they were thinking when they did that. Very cool.

 

[chartle]

I thought everyone on here knew by now that the lore of the black squares was false...but it was one of the bits of "trivia" the boat skippers and bus drivers were armed with which perpetuated the myth...

Will remember to clarify what I meant in the future

Yes I took it that way.

That rumor is up there with the one about the rooms at the Contemporary being modular and able to be all swapped out in a few days for a compete rehab.

 

[Robo]

I walked out there and wondered what in the world they were thinking when they did that. Very cool.

Keep on wondering.

 

[MonorailBeebz]

If you factor in all costs (beams, concrete, electricity, metalwork, labor, construction expenses, new platforms, new employees, and of course new Monorails), the projected cost PER MILE (yes, PER MILE!) of additional track would be approximately $20,000,000.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

I know monorail expansion is probably not going to happen. I would love to see some sort of light rail system connecting parks, DtD, and selected resort hubs though. Surely it would be at least a bit more economic and feasible than monorail expansion.

 

[d1gitman]

personally i'd like to see an 'individualized' people mover system. maybe a network of pathways to drive electric golf carts. if that is too prohibitive due to liability, age of driver, etc...then an automated system similar to TTA but on ground level or track system like Tomorrowland speedway but with vehicles more accomodating for guests and belongings.

people can drive around Fort Wilderness campground on carts, why not the world? it wouldn't cost $1m per mile to build pathways.

 

[asdfghjkl13]

I love the monorail, that would a cool thing if they did do that.

 

[Jestocost]

If you factor in all costs (beams, concrete, electricity, metalwork, labor, construction expenses, new platforms, new employees, and of course new Monorails), the projected cost PER MILE (yes, PER MILE!) of additional track would be approximately $20,000,000.

As large as that number is it's extraordinarily conservative. Most monorails built in recent years, those currently under construction and planned systems are at least three times that price and in some cases the capital cost approaches $100 million per mile.

 

[Technosavant]

It would likely be considerably cheaper to build a light rail system (similar to the systems in many cities) instead of expanding the monorail system. Still, you'd end up with having to connect via a central station in order to get anywhere. Imagine if you had to go via the TTC to get to any where from a resort... it would be a logistical nightmare. At least the buses can go direct from point to point while using existing infrastructure (roads) that would have to be there anyway.

From an environmental standpoint, Disney would be better off switching to buses fueled by CNG. It would also be cheaper. But the current bus system is likely the most efficient (in terms of funds to run it and from the standpoint of the users) that there could possibly be. I know everybody would love it if every resort was a monorail resort, but that's never going to happen. I know it would be great if we could catch a quick train to any park, but that's never going to happen.

Simply put, the most effective thing they could do to ease transportation woes is run more buses. The expense required to build a new rail-based infrastructure of any kind for the rest of the parks and resorts just is never going to be justified... the improved experience for the end users will never pay it back (and may never even materialize; getting around might be an even worse nightmare).

 

[DOOM1001]

I would miss the buses!!

 

[iheartdisney]

I'm sorry, but a monorail line would not fit in at Fort Wilderness or Wilderness Lodge. I can't imagine the Tron monorail pulling into the Yellowstone Lodge without having a mild seizure. It doesn't work. I like the boat transportation, or if we are using our WILDEST imaginations, I could see an actualy railroad system. Or maybe even bring back the skyway!! But could you imagine the backup caused by folks waiting until the last possible moment to fold the stroller and hop into the Skyway cab? NIGHTMARE!

 

[quirty30]

Thanks but no thanks. I'll gladly wait for my boat at the WL to take me to the MK or to the CR. In fact, I could probably ride those boats all day long and be perfectly content