Just curious - Disney Dining Plan

[havoc315]

I get what you're saying. But some people actually buy it for a variety of very valid reasons, not just because they are naive. I get that there are 2 sides to this discussion. But it really sounds like a marketing success to me. As long as it works for us, we'll get it. When it doesn't, we won't. We travel in slow times though, stay at a value and get free dining. So for us it's the best deal we will get at a value resort. It's a slam dunk. When we have to pay for it, we'll put pencil t paper and make a informed decision. If others aren't doing that, then they really have nobody to blame but themselves.

Free dining is an entirely different story. Since the exact $$ value of the plan is less important, free dining is still an excellent value for many families.
I feel as if -- WHen the dining plan was created (original structure and pricing), it was Disney offering a dining discount to all, as an incentive to stay on property. Now, Disney has decided they don't want to offer a dining discount incentive anymore, for most of the year. So for the non-free dining periods, they have hiked up the prices so much, that they are basically telling consumers, "we don't want to give you a discount anymore on dining, but if you want to just throw money away, we will gladly take it!"
Then for select time periods, they still want to use the dining discount incentive to fill rooms -- thus free dining.

So turning to simply purchasing a dining plan -- Are there "legitimate" reasons for buying a dining plan? Sure, some. If you have multiple children on the plan and want to do a lot of character meals, it can still save you a fair sum of money. We can dispute whether the psychological benefit of "pre-payment" is a legitimate reason to buy the plan, or just a psychological excuse to overeat. (You often hear people talking about how they love knowing everything is already paid for -- so they can then order anything they want. Which I often translate to -- oh well, guess I have to eat dessert since I already paid for it).
How many people who have crunched the numbers, who have no intention of ordering lots of desserts and drinking lots of soda, or of having steak at every meal --- How many of those people would still choose to purchase a dining plan? Not too many, I believe. For all the people who talk about the joy of prepayment, I've still never seen anybody ever claim they use the plan, knowing they aren't going to get the value. Nobody ever says, I'm only going to order $40 worth of food, but I want the $55 plan for the joy of prepayment! Nobody says, "I skipped desserts and soda, and ate moderate priced entrees.. only spending $35-$45 per day, but I'm so glad that I had the $55 plan just in case I wanted steak and dessert!"

I do agree it would be great to add TiW eligibility for all. I don't think I really understand why a FL resident can get it but I can't. They might in fact have a much higher profit margin on me since I can't get there to use it as much.

I believe they could sell a TiW card to all guests, and make profit from it.
But I understand their logic ---
When you're at Disney on vacation, you're not price comparing the restaurants to off-property. You're not saying, "hmmm, the lobster is $66 at Narcoose's but $50 at the seafood restaurant 20 miles away."

So the TiW card is a way to make Disney dining attractive, to locals who can choose any restaurant in the area, whenever they want. Which in turn gives them extra incentive to buy Florida resident passes, gives them extra incentives to visit the parks and spend money in general. And even with 20% discounts, Disney is making a profit on the food itself.

 

[Cafeen]

I'd like to see the DDP go for a simple reason -- It's a rip off.
I don't feel that it is necessarily responsible for any change in food quality (overall I like the quality of Disney restaurants). It may make it a bit more difficult to get reservations, but I find even this difficulty to be exaggerated. Right now, at 11:30...During summer peak --
I can still get a 1:30 lunch reservation at tons of restaurants including 50's Prime Time Cafe, Chefs De France, Coral Reef, Tony's Town Square and many others.

And go back in time 4-6 years, and the DDP was a good deal. Go back in time 1-2 years, and the DxDP was a good deal, if you liked a lot of signature and a lot of table service.

But now, the plan is simply becoming a rip off, that actually encourages bad eating habits. (Dessert portions at every meal, steering people to expensive steaks, mugs that are refillable with soda but not really healthier beverages).
Yes, can still opt out of the plan.
Nobody is forced to take the plan. But it is annoying that Disney actively misleads people about the cost of the plan, taking advantage of consumers' naivete, trust and ignorance.
So I'd be happy for them to get rid of the plan, and bring back a plan that actually made sense for consumers and for Disney. (TiW card eligibility for all!)

[Insert my "it's only a rip off if you don't do the math beforehand"* comments (Havoc knows them already, we go through this a lot in a friendly manner )]

However, I'm TOTALLY against the last bit!

TiW for all would make me far less useful around here. After all, the answer to "Is it worth it" would change from a novel to a "You'll save as long as you spend $x". What good could I be? At least, now, I have a very complex spreadsheet to offer people that takes them through all the math and gives them a nice little analysis on the other end. (Including estimated OOP expenses). Without all of that, I'd be left to snarky one liners, and that's just not my style (well, ok, maybe it is, but at least now I got snarky one liners AND a logical objective approach to determining if a plan (or which plan) is right for a trip). Making it easy would just make me sad...no on wants that.

I don't REALLY have to put the (JK) here do I? You all know me well enough by now, I hope.

I'd be all over that TiW for all. I'm half (well, more than half) tempted to upgrade to an AP for this year so I can pick it up for next year's trip(s) if my bigger family one is within a year of this upcoming one. (If it is, I'll be sure to plan a smaller trip in the interim as well, just because I may as well, right?)

Though, as time goes on, it seems like Disney is banking on the uninformed more and more, thus taking direct advantage of those who don't do the math, and intentionally now (it goes along with several other areas of cuts and tweaks they've done lately).

*(As a special note about that math beforehand vs being ripped off... if you're going to fall behind the curve on the price thingy, then you wouldn't buy it and thus not be ripped off. So it's not just about coming out ahead ) (I edited this in about an hour and a half after I originally posted. Deal with it )

 

[collins316]

I did the math 3 ways for our September trip- AP discount, room only discount, and free dining. Room Only discount was a few hundred bucks more. AP and free dising were almost the same.
I do find myself looking at which places are the most expensive, and booked there. I would never "waste" a sit down credit on a breakfast, when dinner is more expensive! But it is giving me the opportunity to go to places that I would not normaly go to when paying.
I have done the DDP in the past, and it is well worth it. However, we dont eat the same way when we are not on the plan- we dont get dessert at every meal,,, and we eat more counter service than sit downs. So we do use more than we will spend on the plan. But we are spending more on the plan that we would if we just ate on our own.

The concern I have- and I didnt want to do the math too much- but we will have to tip on our own seperate from the plan. Fr 15-18% for each of those nice expensive meals we plan on having- That is going to add up to a pretty penny!!! Has anyone done the math on that?
EEKS

Bernie

 

[OllieDannyandMe]

Nobody ever says, I'm only going to order $40 worth of food, but I want the $55 plan for the joy of prepayment! Nobody says, "I skipped desserts and soda, and ate moderate priced entrees.. only spending $35-$45 per day, but I'm so glad that I had the $55 plan just in case I wanted steak and dessert!"

I actually agree with your point that it is a rip-off for more consumers than not and it tries to steer all guests into making unhealthy choices.

However, I had to respond to this point, because I was so stunned a few days ago.

I was reading a blog, and the woman said that after her Disney World vacation, she did the math, and the Disney Dining Plan only cost her about $5.00 more per day than what she would have paid if she had bought the same items out of pocket.

Then, she went on to say what a good value that was and how it was well worth the added expense to have it all paid for up front, so she did not have to worry about it on vacation.

Given the high cost of Disney food in general, I was shocked. But I guess that's how some people feel.

 

[mom2rtk]

So turning to simply purchasing a dining plan -- Are there "legitimate" reasons for buying a dining plan? Sure, some. If you have multiple children on the plan and want to do a lot of character meals, it can still save you a fair sum of money. We can dispute whether the psychological benefit of "pre-payment" is a legitimate reason to buy the plan, or just a psychological excuse to overeat. (You often hear people talking about how they love knowing everything is already paid for -- so they can then order anything they want. Which I often translate to -- oh well, guess I have to eat dessert since I already paid for it).
How many people who have crunched the numbers, who have no intention of ordering lots of desserts and drinking lots of soda, or of having steak at every meal --- How many of those people would still choose to purchase a dining plan? Not too many, I believe. For all the people who talk about the joy of prepayment, I've still never seen anybody ever claim they use the plan, knowing they aren't going to get the value. Nobody ever says, I'm only going to order $40 worth of food, but I want the $55 plan for the joy of prepayment! Nobody says, "I skipped desserts and soda, and ate moderate priced entrees.. only spending $35-$45 per day, but I'm so glad that I had the $55 plan just in case I wanted steak and dessert!"

I'm just a big believer in "caveat emptor". So not much sympathy here for people who willingly buy something then don't get their money's worth.

We have a teenage son we have to "negotiate" with at every meal. We make bets on how long it will take before he says "how much can I spend?" every time we sit down at a restaurant. The dining plan is a great escape from that.

I have a friend who is married to someone who always wants to cancel half their TS ADRs during their trip since he decides it's not worth the price. With the dining plan, they can have their trip, with the character meals she loves so much, without those arguments.

Everyone is different. And the're not all "naive".

We would probably still begrudgingly do the dining plan if it weren't free. That's because the character meals we love are so expensive without it. Honestly, the high price of those meals is the greatest marketing ploy they have for the dining plan.

Ultimately, either folks will pay those high prices (for the character meals, both with and without the dining plan) or they won't. Either the tables will remain full or they won't. They are under no obligation to keep the price at a certain level. Not one of us has a right to a character meal at a reasonable price.

 

[CaliKT]

Why do you think Disney has chosen to include dessert in the dining plan as opposed to giving guests the choice of an appetizer or dessert? I almost never order dessert in restaurants -- hard for me to justify eating a Mickey Bar or something on a a snack credit, getting a dessert with my CS meal, and then getting a dessert with a TS meal on top of that. I'd be much more interested in starting my TS meal with a salad. (We also ended up throwing out many of our CS desserts, or just asking not to get them.)

For me personally, I'd see more value in the DP if you were allowed the choice of an appetizer or dessert, but obviously, desserts must be better for Disney's bottom line (although not my own! ).

 

[vicki_c]

Why do you think Disney has chosen to include dessert in the dining plan as opposed to giving guests the choice of an appetizer or dessert? I almost never order dessert in restaurants -- hard for me to justify eating a Mickey Bar or something on a a snack credit, getting a dessert with my CS meal, and then getting a dessert with a TS meal on top of that. I'd be much more interested in starting my TS meal with a salad. (We also ended up throwing out many of our CS desserts, or just asking not to get them.)

For me personally, I'd see more value in the DP if you were allowed the choice of an appetizer or dessert, but obviously, desserts must be better for Disney's bottom line (although not my own! ).

1. Desserts are cheaper to make.
2. Only allowing one or the other for the entire table allows them to turn the tables over faster.

 

[mom2rtk]

Why do you think Disney has chosen to include dessert in the dining plan as opposed to giving guests the choice of an appetizer or dessert? I almost never order dessert in restaurants -- hard for me to justify eating a Mickey Bar or something on a a snack credit, getting a dessert with my CS meal, and then getting a dessert with a TS meal on top of that. I'd be much more interested in starting my TS meal with a salad. (We also ended up throwing out many of our CS desserts, or just asking not to get them.)

For me personally, I'd see more value in the DP if you were allowed the choice of an appetizer or dessert, but obviously, desserts must be better for Disney's bottom line (although not my own! ).

I'm guessing dessert must be cheaper to provide than appetizers.

 

[HappyArtist]

They can also make many deserts ahead of time ( mass produced) and simply plate them "fresh and fancy" when they are ordered. Plus they are much cheaper to make and some people won't get one because they are too full. I am sure most people would get an appetizer though, especially if it's scallops, crab cakes or wings, they will be hungry.

 

[Sheaboys]

; however, with a party of 6 or greater, there's the 18% gratituity plus tips to consider. If you have a party with people who barely eat, then the free dining is somewhat wasted. It's up to the individual consumer to evaluate the free dining deal with their family eating habits and see which discount suits you best.

See for us, the 18% does not matter, we are a family of 7. We eat a sit down meal every night, same on vacation. I want to be served and cleaned up after, I am not into just walk up food 2-3 times a day. We have 2 child meals on the plan and 3 kids that are disney adults, which I am sure they could share, but yet, we are still a family of 7, even ordering 1-2 meals less, we are still a family of 7, they will still charge us the 18% no matter what. Now if we wanted to eat, quick service every meal, and share some, then maybe, just maybe the room discount would be cheaper. Every family certainly is different and should do their research and choose wisely.

 

[havoc315]

See for us, the 18% does not matter, we are a family of 7. We eat a sit down meal every night, same on vacation. I want to be served

I'll just point out, that parties of less than 6 tip also. (or should). So whether the tip is automatic or not, shouldn't make a big difference.

 

[havoc315]

I'm just a big believer in "caveat emptor". So not much sympathy here for people who willingly buy something then don't get their money's worth.

We have a teenage son we have to "negotiate" with at every meal. We make bets on how long it will take before he says "how much can I spend?" every time we sit down at a restaurant. The dining plan is a great escape from that.

I have a friend who is married to someone who always wants to cancel half their TS ADRs during their trip since he decides it's not worth the price. With the dining plan, they can have their trip, with the character meals she loves so much, without those arguments.

Everyone is different. And the're not all "naive".

We would probably still begrudgingly do the dining plan if it weren't free. That's because the character meals we love are so expensive without it. Honestly, the high price of those meals is the greatest marketing ploy they have for the dining plan.

Ultimately, either folks will pay those high prices (for the character meals, both with and without the dining plan) or they won't. Either the tables will remain full or they won't. They are under no obligation to keep the price at a certain level. Not one of us has a right to a character meal at a reasonable price.

I'm opinionated and abrasive. But I try not to speak in universals for good reason.
Character meals -- at least a desire to do multiple character dinners, especially with children, is still a pretty good reason to get the dining plan. Though even then, adults can do character lunches and breakfasts for less than the cost of the plan.

Turning to the teenage son example -- the teenage son can be permitted to order anything on the menu, with or without the plan. In most cases, that will still be cheaper for the family, than using the dining plan.

Same with the spouse canceling the ADRs -- here the ddp is being used as an excuse to overspend. Not very rational. The spouse will cancel reservations, because he doesnt want to spend $900 on restaurants (hypothetical number). But if we flush $1,000 down the toilet in advance, then the spouse won't have the choice! Not a very rational approach.

Yes, I'm being judgmental. But I honestly don't buy most of the rationalizatins used to justify the dining plan.
If you honestly truly eat in a fashion where it saves you money, or you at least break even, then the plan is fully justified. There are indeed some people who fit that mold. (people who want individual desserts at every meal, character dinners, and steak at every TS restaurant )

 

[bdoyledimou]

i think they should just get rid of ADRs all together -- first come first served just like any other restaurant..

 

[canopynut66]

IMO food better than ever has been in last 30 years so DDP has nothing to do with that. they have changed food vendors over the years. One needed reservations years ago for most that was sit down dining and they were easier to get back then but was also less people in the parks. have realitives and friends who do not plan anything and they hate it as they do not wan to be "told" when to eat. Disney not telling anyone when to eat that is up to the person making the ressie's and if one makes them 180 days out then they will get most all places they wanting to eat. and what time to eat and not miss park time throws a lot of people. we handle that with early character breakfast and dinner at a park we going to that closes say at 7. we plan our days according to crwod calendar and then do dining. also most our TS is done outside the parks in a resort area. have figured it with discounts and with free dining and free dining is best discount for us as we are not ones who can eat QS for two weeks. so if were in a resort that only offers QS we will upgrade to get the TS as well. we do our ressies at what sounds good at the time and then during the 180 days (as we book a year out) we may tweak a ressie or so and try and get in somewhere else that has opened up. it does take planning and if one does not want to do that then that is their business.but to us is easy to do and were all busy in one form or another.

 

[Tanyabeth8]

I gladly accepted the free dining plan for my upcoming trip, but I do think the food quality has severely dropped since Disney introduced the dining plan. I also miss the days of being able to walk up to most restaurants and be seated within 20 or so minutes WITHOUT an ADR. It was also kind of nice to be able to go into certain restaurants and have them be fairly quiet because a lot people with children were dining at counter service restaurants, but now these families are all dining at the higher end restaurants to get the most "bang for their buck". Screaming kids make for an unpleasant meal at California Grill.

 

[Sheaboys]

I'll just point out, that parties of less than 6 tip also. (or should). So whether the tip is automatic or not, shouldn't make a big difference.

Absolutely! The poster I quoted was stating that if you had eaters that did not eat enough and you were still charged the 18%, so it was not a good savings with the dining plan.

So once you are over that 6, you pay 18% no matter if OOP and half your party does not eat. Makes no difference.

 

[havoc315]

i think they should just get rid of ADRs all together -- first come first served just like any other restaurant..

Huh? Most restaurants take reservations.

 

[disneyjunkie]

I'm opinionated and abrasive. But I try not to speak in universals for good reason.
Character meals -- at least a desire to do multiple character dinners, especially with children, is still a pretty good reason to get the dining plan. Though even then, adults can do character lunches and breakfasts for less than the cost of the plan.

Turning to the teenage son example -- the teenage son can be permitted to order anything on the menu, with or without the plan. In most cases, that will still be cheaper for the family, than using the dining plan.

Same with the spouse canceling the ADRs -- here the ddp is being used as an excuse to overspend. Not very rational. The spouse will cancel reservations, because he doesnt want to spend $900 on restaurants (hypothetical number). But if we flush $1,000 down the toilet in advance, then the spouse won't have the choice! Not a very rational approach.

Yes, I'm being judgmental. But I honestly don't buy most of the rationalizatins used to justify the dining plan.
If you honestly truly eat in a fashion where it saves you money, or you at least break even, then the plan is fully justified. There are indeed some people who fit that mold. (people who want individual desserts at every meal, character dinners, and steak at every TS restaurant )

Why do you care? It isn't your money being spent on the dining plan.

 

[havoc315]

Why do you care? It isn't your money being spent on the dining plan.

I care, because irrational decision making, has made it easy for Disney to ditch a value driven dining plan.
More than that, I just don't keep my opinios to myself. Of course, if we all kept our opinions to ourselves, message board discussions would be pretty bland.

 

[Nancyg56]

I'd like to see the DDP go for a simple reason -- It's a rip off.
I don't feel that it is necessarily responsible for any change in food quality (overall I like the quality of Disney restaurants).

And go back in time 4-6 years, and the DDP was a good deal. Go back in time 1-2 years, and the DxDP was a good deal, if you liked a lot of signature and a lot of table service.
But it is annoying that Disney actively misleads people about the cost of the plan, taking advantage of consumers' naivete, trust and ignorance.
So I'd be happy for them to get rid of the plan, and bring back a plan that actually made sense for consumers and for Disney. (TiW card eligibility for all!)

I believe that Disney Dining is pretty good. NO matter which vacation destination you choose you are going to have to deal with dining options that may or may not live up to your expectations and you will be paying a premium in most resort towns.

Now I like the DDP and buy it for my own reasons. I am not naive, do my homework and crunch my numbers. I understand how my family dines while on vacation and like to plan for this.

I remember the old DDP and it was a very good value IMO. That plan included appetizer, entree and desert and also included a gratuity. IIRC it was about $32 per day for adult and about $10.00 for a child. Holy Smokes!!!!!!!! The cranky people who purchased it! They were not even there yet and worrying about the service now that the tip was paid for. Too much food! Not enough for kids to choose from! Server should not get that much money! Even when it was "free", and I took advantage of that deal , there was complaints. No amount of discussion could convince some people to simply not order apps for everyone at the table. Don't order dessert if you don't want it. Discuss poor service with the manager instead of wanting to control teh gratuity. Nope.

Disney got the message loud and clear. Now was the opportunity to change the plan while "listening" to the multitude of complaints. Too much food? Bye Bye appetizer. Don't want the server to make that much money? Gotcha. You pay the tip. And the plan went down one dollar.

Now Disney does not mislead anyone about the plan or their discounts. I believe that if one is going to spend on a vacation it would make good sense to do a bit of research. It is important to understand how your family vacations. It is important to know if menu costs are going to be stressful for one member of the family and determine how best to handle that.

Some folks will only go on all inclusive vacations. They know the cost is high for the convenience and freedom to eat and drink whatever and how much one wants. Others would never pay that price and would avoid that kind of resort at all costs.

My DH will say he wants a "cheap" vacation. That is right up to the minute he leaves our house. He is hungry as soon as he gets to the airport. He likes a sit-down full breakfast every day. He wants a nice TS meal every day and he will always order an assortment of appetizers and know that some of us (me) wants dessert. Goodness knows he is stopping for ice cream and cold drinks and hot dogs throughout the day. I know this about him. I know he knows how much meals cost and I know he knows we are going to spend a fair amount on meals. They are part of our vacation. We always save money on the DDP even this dumbed down more expensive version.

DD and I are going to use one of those fancy spreadsheets that DIS'ers have created because we need to know if we will break even we upgrade to the Deluxe DD. We have several signature TS booked as well as some dinner shows. I just don't want to give up Tier one seating.

I did the math 3 ways for our September trip- AP discount, room only discount, and free dining. Room Only discount was a few hundred bucks more. AP and free dising were almost the same.
I do find myself looking at which places are the most expensive, and booked there. I would never "waste" a sit down credit on a breakfast, when dinner is more expensive! But it is giving me the opportunity to go to places that I would not normaly go to when paying.
I have done the DDP in the past, and it is well worth it. However, we dont eat the same way when we are not on the plan- we dont get dessert at every meal,,, and we eat more counter service than sit downs. So we do use more than we will spend on the plan. But we are spending more on the plan that we would if we just ate on our own.

The concern I have- and I didnt want to do the math too much- but we will have to tip on our own seperate from the plan. Fr 15-18% for each of those nice expensive meals we plan on having- That is going to add up to a pretty penny!!! Has anyone done the math on that?
EEKS

Bernie

You need to know how you want to vacation and then go from there. My DD and DSIL are different if they go without DH and I. They used the CS plan and loved it. I think they had one TS meal and were happy. Now DH and I are more leisurely and use the dining options as part of our trip. CS would never work for us.

You do need to factor increased money for tips if you are eating more TS meals.

Why do you think Disney has chosen to include dessert in the dining plan as opposed to giving guests the choice of an appetizer or dessert? I almost never order dessert in restaurants -- hard for me to justify eating a Mickey Bar or something on a a snack credit, getting a dessert with my CS meal, and then getting a dessert with a TS meal on top of that. I'd be much more interested in starting my TS meal with a salad. (We also ended up throwing out many of our CS desserts, or just asking not to get them.)

For me personally, I'd see more value in the DP if you were allowed the choice of an appetizer or dessert, but obviously, desserts must be better for Disney's bottom line (although not my own! ).

If Disney allowed one or the other then no one would spend extra in the restaurant. When we dine out we generally order one or two appetizers to share and may split one or two desserts. We would never order both for all of us. Dessert is less expensive to make and most can be almost ready to serve prior to service. Appetizers age generally cooked to order. Folks may still add on a few appetizers to share. More money for Disney bottom line.

1. Desserts are cheaper to make.
2. Only allowing one or the other for the entire table allows them to turn the tables over faster.

i think they should just get rid of ADRs all together -- first come first served just like any other restaurant..

That would be a nightmare I would not want to see happen.