JUST BACK - NEW DDP changes in action (Photo added)

[pixiesrule]

Just jumping in to keep in the loop for July trip. This will be our first time using the DDP, and I am so looking forward to it. All of your tips and comments are appreciated on this thread. I'll keep 'listening'

 

[Carrieberry]

Ok so let me get this straight....

If they continue to pool the adult and childrens CS meals into one lump number, I could technically order my 8 year old the adult chicken strips instead of the chintzy nuggets and it still will pull from the credits correctly? So unless they change it to make it like the TS system, it just sees it as (6 days, 4 people) 24 counter service credits total and just subtracts them with no difference as adult or child?

I am so confused, just want to get it straight before I start following up over the next months! Thanks!

 

[disneyag]

Yay, bicker!

Last spring/summer there were so many threads about how to "maximize" one's dining credits, in spite of the fact that Disney probably did not mean for that to happen. Now, Disney has had to become more restrictive in what was a great plan.

 

[Steph9072]

Does this include children. DS is 2 and I was told when I made our ADR's that he was free eating at buffets and eating off of our plates. Now I wonder if this is true or not?



Steph


dh
ds2 yrs
dd 6 yrs
dss 11 yrs

 

[disneyag]

Your 2 year old should be fine. They have always eaten free.

 

[Katiebell]

I remember when the first big hubub blew up over how people were abusing the system to get extra adult meals (TS and CS). Another DIS member and I had a PM discussion about it, and came to agreement that it was clearly not what Disney intended, represented another example of Entitlement Mentality that has been sweeping the country for a decade, and was clearly going to eventually result in Disney taking steps to compensate for the abuse, and those steps would invariably have some collateral damage, i.e., cause some inconvenience or dissatisfaction for some guests who were always using the Dining Plan appropriately. Lo and behold, that did happen. Indeed, there was recently a thread where we listed a few such side-effects of the new TS enforcement. I don't think the CS situation will result in as significant of a change in enforcement as the TS situation did, because the differential in value isn't as high. Indeed, I think there will be even worse collateral damage from the CS situation: I think they'll simply recognize that some people are getting a greater value from the Dining Plan than intended, and reflect that by increasing the price to compensate, perhaps even just increasing the child price. Time will tell. Surely, given how much less value differential there is with CS credits, it'll probably take longer, and whatever reaction there is will probably be more subtle, than that for the TS situation.

I agree with many of your points, Bicker. The main abuse of the plan -- trying to use children's credits for adult meals -- is obviously unethical. Whether or not there is a loophole, whether or not it's possible -- people know that if they paid $11/day for their kids' plans, it's just not right to use those credits for an adult's $70 meal of steak and lobster and cherries jubilee. And I absolutely agree and understand why Disney had to crackdown on that misuse. It was greedy and totally unfair to Disney...but then again, some might say charging $4 for a .25 bottle of water is greedy and totally unfair to guests.

However, the DDP is not free, unless you are one of the lucky ones who got the promotion. Most customers pay for the DDP. Will every single adult in your party -- including those 10 and 12 year old "adults" -- eat $40 worth of food every single day? Maybe, maybe not. I crunched some numbers based on what my husband and I would likely order at the restaurants we plan to visit, and overall...it's pretty much a wash. Some days more than $40, some days less. We'll probably save a little, and have more fun dining at fun places -- and we'll stay on Disney property, pay extra for items not included on the plan, spend more time in the shops...Disney knows what they are doing, and they aren't going bankrupt by a long shot. The plan is convenient, our food is prepaid so we don't have to worry -- but it certainly isn't free.

As far as "entitlement"...hmm. If I pay $40 for a TS, CS, and S every day, then yep, I am entitled to what I paid for with that flat fee, whether it's the most expensive steak or the cheapest hamburger. IMHO, once I use that credit to purchase my food, it should be mine to do with as I please -- if I want to eat it, or share it with my family, or give it to people at the next table, give it to a homeless guy, mail it back to my house, or poke it with my fork and leave it on the table.

If it's not my food...and I can waste half of it and leave it on the plate, but I can't give it to my family member...then what exactly have I purchased?

 

[bicker]

However, the DDP is not free, unless you are one of the lucky ones who got the promotion. Most customers pay for the DDP. Will every single adult in your party -- including those 10 and 12 year old "adults" -- eat $40 worth of food every single day? Maybe, maybe not.

Folks who won't get a good deal on the Dining Plan shouldn't get it. If I figure I won't get $300 worth of entertainment out of my admission passes, I don't look for ways to defeat the biometrics so I can transfer my pass to someone else to split the cost. If I figure I won't get $180 worth of enjoyment out of a new stereo system, I don't try to walk out of the store with a matching equalizer that I didn't pay for. The issue isn't whether each will get $40 worth of food every single day (night, really), but rather whether or not they'd spend $40 for that 10 year old's food if they were paying in cash.

Regardless, there is no issue with 10 and 12 year olds -- they've always paid full price. The issue is when folks pay the discounted child rate for 8 and 9 year olds and then try to use those credits for adult meals, or when folks try to use any of their credits for meals for folks not on their reservation.

.Disney knows what they are doing, and they aren't going bankrupt by a long shot.

That is really irrelevant. The point of pricing is to assess what the offering is worth to a typical customer and exact that much revenue from each customer. Going back to my stereo system example, Samsung isn't going bankrupt either, but I'm still going to assess their offering at the price they offer it, and if it isn't worth it to me, I won't buy it.

The point is that just because it is often easier to break the rules with regard to services Disney provides doesn't rationalize doing so.

As far as "entitlement"...hmm. If I pay $40 for a TS, CS, and S every day, then yep, I am entitled to what I paid for with that flat fee, whether it's the most expensive steak or the cheapest hamburger.

Absolutely, subject to the terms and conditions which were part of the offering. You paid $40 for the offering they outlined for you in the brochure, not for what you wished the offering was.

IMHO, once I use that credit to purchase my food, it should be mine to do with as I please

Sorry, but no. You don't get to impose rules unlaterally on the supplier. In a mass-market scenario, the supplier always makes the rules. The consumer always has the ultimate power, but that power is either to accept the rules the supplier set forth, or to walk away from the offering.

what exactly have I purchased?

You've purchased a set of meals for the specific people listed on your reservation, with the number of adult versus child meals proportional to the number of adults/older children versus children 3-9.

 

[Uncleromulus]

Lots of speculation continuing with the new DDP rules enforcement. And that e-mail from Guest services reported by Katiebell is interesting.
We'll let this thread run a little longer as it does contain reports about what is ACTUALLY happening. But if we get too many more "discusions" about how to share, rule breaking, etc , we'll have to invoke our "Only WDW can answer" rule and close it out.

 

[bicker]

Maybe one of our members who has higher level contacts at Disney Dining can contact them about those letters. They do seem to be relatively remarkable.

 

[thunderbird1]

Ok so let me get this straight....

If they continue to pool the adult and childrens CS meals into one lump number, I could technically order my 8 year old the adult chicken strips instead of the chintzy nuggets and it still will pull from the credits correctly? So unless they change it to make it like the TS system, it just sees it as (6 days, 4 people) 24 counter service credits total and just subtracts them with no difference as adult or child?

I am so confused, just want to get it straight before I start following up over the next months! Thanks!

Not exactly. I won't try to tell you what you can do, because that comes too close to the line of what you shouldn't do, but I will tell you what you can't do. You can't, at any one time, order more than the number of adult and child CS meals stated on your KTTW card. I don't know the age of your other child, but if you have 2A/2C listed on your card, you cannot order more than 2 adult meals or 2 child meals at any one time. So, if you are all eating together, and your 8 yo wants an adult meal, you would either have to share an adult meal with your child or one of the adults would have to eat a kids' meal. Does that make sense?

Since most 8 year olds couldn't finish an adult meal, even if they prefer the adult choices, many people do share their adult meal with their kids, and use their child credits for a child meal at another time, perhaps at breakfast, where there is less difference in the type of meals offered.

 

[fla4fun]

I don't purchase the dining plan, because I have an AP and book room only. But after reading this thread, particularly the sharing, something doesn't make sense.

You are allowed one TS for each night of your stay. But some TS cost two credits, so that means you need to skip a day to have two credits available. In a scenario outlined earlier, just a husband and wife, both on the plan, I don't understand why they couldn't share a meal a couple times, in order to save the credits for the Signature restaurants? No difference in the quantity of food being issued to the guests, both guests on the plan, not getting a single thing that they didn't pay for. I'm not saying they should share, if sharing is against the rules, but I don't understand WHY the sharing is against the rules if both parties are on the plan (other than because Disney says so).

I'm just really confused on this issue.

 

[bicker]

In a scenario outlined earlier, just a husband and wife, both on the plan, I don't understand why they couldn't share a meal a couple times, in order to save the credits for the Signature restaurants?

Are you asking logistically or philosophically? Keep in mind that, generally speaking, sharing is allowed, but applying the hypothetical if new rules were put forth that prohibited that, it would be just a matter of "their house, their rules". Nothing in the Dining Plan marketing materials explicitly promises that sharing will be allowed, and the materials clearly indicate that the rules can change without notice.

No difference in the quantity of food being issued to the guests

This is statistically not true. There is unquestionably a significant difference in the quantity of food "being issued" to guests comparing a Dining Plan that allows sharing and a Dining Plan that does not allow sharing.

 

[Katiebell]

I don't purchase the dining plan, because I have an AP and book room only. But after reading this thread, particularly the sharing, something doesn't make sense.

You are allowed one TS for each night of your stay. But some TS cost two credits, so that means you need to skip a day to have two credits available. In a scenario outlined earlier, just a husband and wife, both on the plan, I don't understand why they couldn't share a meal a couple times, in order to save the credits for the Signature restaurants? No difference in the quantity of food being issued to the guests, both guests on the plan, not getting a single thing that they didn't pay for. I'm not saying they should share, if sharing is against the rules, but I don't understand WHY the sharing is against the rules if both parties are on the plan (other than because Disney says so).

I'm just really confused on this issue.

Thank you, fla4fun. This is exactly my point, and I'm glad you understand what I'm talking about.

I just want to clarify:

I'm not talking about using children's credits for adult meals; that is obviously unethical.

I'm not talking about using DDP credits to purchase meals for people not on the plan; yes, potentially unused credits are "wasted", but you can't transfer credits, just like you can't transfer unused days on your admission ticket. I understand the logic in that.

I am not suggesting "beating the system", breaking the rules, or even bending the rules. I just want to know what the rule is. Can two adults on the DDP share one TS credit? And if they can't, why not? The answer seems to depend on who you are talking to.

If someone with contacts in Disney Dining or a board moderator would like to see the emails I received, I would be happy to forward them. I still think the DDP is a great idea and will work well for my husband and me; if we can't share the couple of meals we planned to, no problem, we can pay out of pocket, and leave what we can't eat. But I know from reading these boards there are a lot of families on very tight budgets -- and I know what that feels like, it wasn't that long ago we had three kids at home and cut corners and saved to be able to take a family vacation. It costs a lot to feed a family at WDW for a week. It's easy to say, "well, then just don't buy it", but they are honestly trying to figure out if the DDP will work well for their family and help them afford their vacation. And a lot of them are counting on sharing a few of their meals among their family members, especially if they want to save up extra credits for a special meal, like CRT.

 

[Susan555]

And a lot of them are counting on sharing a few of their meals among their family members, especially if they want to save up extra credits for a special meal, like CRT.

Of course you can also spread out your CS meals by sharing THOSE, and then you don't have to worry about sharing a meal at a TS restaurant even if you have a 2 credit TS meal or two during the week. I don't feel very comfortable sharing a meal at any sit-down restaurant, and I would feel particularly uncomfortable doing it with the DDP dining credits. There's no implication by Disney that the dining plan will cover ALL your meals, so if you choose to to CRT or another 2 credit meal, you can either spread out your CS meals or pay for a CS or TS out of pocket. And no one is forcing guests to have a TS every day - nothing wrong with eating a 4 buck hot dog at Casey's the day after your big meal at CRT, rather than worrying about paying OOP for a table service meal for which you don't have a credit.

 

[ssnelle]

We just got back and maybe it is different for different resorts. Our children and adult TS credits were seperated, but our CS/QS were pooled together and whether we were ordering a child CS or adult CS it just came out of that pool. Also, we did not have a photo of us as some mentioned, just needed to show any of our room keys. Also, Disney made two errors while we were on our "plan"...first, they charged us twice for the same TS meal...I am really glad I kept a running tally because I caught it RIGHT AWAY and brought it up to our concierge that night at our hotel (Boardwalk) and they fixed it for us immediately. Had I not caught it, we would have been very embarrased at our next TS meal because we would have been "out" and I do not know what we would have done. Also, we lost one room key on our last day and when we had it replaced, they added an additional 14 snacks and 6 extra CS meals. I brought it to their attention and they fixed that right away...I don't know how that happened on both ends (the overcharging and then the extra credits) but Disney is so nice and helpful with these things. I am just glad however that again I caught the overcharge because I am sure the restaurant would have expected us to pay and then we would've had to look into it when we got back to our hotel.

Also, we shared meals a couple of times, never a problem anywhere as long as we didn't exceed the total food eaten at one time that was on our meal plan (2 A, 3 C).

If anybody wants to read about our DDP experience, I just put a long reply on a thread of 'DDP vs. OOP'. DDP was GREAT, but we probably would not do it again due to the time and travel involved for us. Good luck!

 

[disneygrandma]

Last January, my husband & I ate at Raglan Rd. We were NOT on the Dining Plan. He ordered an entree and a beverage. I ordered an appetizer, a dessert and a water. Many times I would rather have an appetizer and a dessert, either because the entrees don't really interest me, or because I'm not all that hungry. On our next trip we will be on the Dining Plan, and I'm sure there will be times that we will want to "share" a meal because of the reasons I just listed. We would not be trying to get away with something, or trying to cheat the system. It's just that my husband is usually not that interested in desserts, and many times I'm not that interested in the entrees. If we would choose to share a couple of our meals during our 7 day trip, I would think that would be preferable to wasting a bunch of food. I had read some reports that argued whether or not you could take the leftovers with you in a take-home box. Of course, then there would be the inconvenience of getting that food back to your room.

I can totally see where if you paid a child's price on the Dining Plan, then you shouldn't be entitiled to receive an adult's meal instead. It would be wrong for someone to knowingly try to get around that. You should get what you paid for. The flip side to that is that we would be paying for an adult meal, and if we choose to order one adult meal and share it between us........then that should be allowed. It's not something we would plan to do at every meal, but it's a choice we should have.

 

[Katiebell]

I completely agree, disneygrandma. DH and I go out to eat at least once a week, and often share appetizer (IF we order one) and dessert (IF we order one). If the entree is huge, we sometimes split that too, or ask the server for a take home containers and set half our entrees aside at the beginning of the meal (and that won't be an option at WDW). American portions, in general, are just too large. Doesn't mean we don't enjoy dining, or that we don't like to try a lot of different things, it just means we would like reasonable sized portions.

If we would choose to share a couple of our meals during our 7 day trip, I would think that would be preferable to wasting a bunch of food.

You know, I read this a couple of times before something really sunk in. I think maybe some of us -- generationally or culturally -- have a real problem with wasting food. And for others, it doesn't bother them. I dunno, just a thought.

I want to try a lot of new things, but don't want to stuff myself. I was thinking about the quantity of food being issued sharing vs. non-sharing. Look at these two possible scenarios:

#1
DH and I order CS lunch.
DH and I order TS dinner -- appetizer, entree, dessert, beverage...and are so full we go back to our room early, and don't spend any money in the stores.
We use 2 CS and 2 TS.

or #2
DH and I split a TS lunch. We order a second beverage, and want a little more so we also order a salad.
DH and I split an early TS dinner. We order a second beverage. I want to try a different dessert on the menu that I read was fabulous on DIS, so we order an extra dessert. DH has a beer after dinner. I have coffee with dessert.
Later that night, before MK closes, we stop by the ice cream parlor on Main Street and share a sundae.
Second scenario, we share 2 TS. We also purchase 2 more beverages, a salad, another dessert, a beer, a coffee, and a sundae OOP. We aren't stuffed and feeling like we need to go lie down in our room, so we shop for some souvenirs. We didn't use 2 CS meals, which may be unused at the end of our trip.

Which scenario is more profitable to Disney's bottom line? Just bein' silly, but seriously...the second scenario is more the way DH and I typically eat on vacation.

 

[fla4fun]

This is statistically not true. There is unquestionably a significant difference in the quantity of food "being issued" to guests comparing a Dining Plan that allows sharing and a Dining Plan that does not allow sharing.

Maybe I wasn't clear with my example. If two guests are both on the plan, and they are sharing one meal so they can save credits toward a Signature restaurant, by using one credit they would get one appetizer, one entree, one dessert, correct? They don't get more food by sharing the one meal they are entitled to for one credit. So I'm confused as to why that would be an issue for Disney. Obviously, I definitely can understand that at a buffet, this would be a no-no. If a guest was dining at a buffet and "split" they would be getting double the food for half the price. But I'm talking regular, table service, non-buffet restaurants, such as most of the WS at Epcot. I'm sure it's easier to just say "no sharing" so they don't have to differentiate between TS and TS Buffet. But why even have the Signature dining option if this is the case? Maybe the Signature restaurants should be one credit plus a cash premium, so the guests would have enough credits to cover their trip?

Still a little confused, but glad I'm paying OOP with DDE.

 

[bicker]

This is statistically not true. There is unquestionably a significant difference in the quantity of food "being issued" to guests comparing a Dining Plan that allows sharing and a Dining Plan that does not allow sharing.

Maybe I wasn't clear with my example. If two guests are both on the plan, and they are sharing one meal so they can save credits toward a Signature restaurant, by using one credit they would get one appetizer, one entree, one dessert, correct? They don't get more food by sharing the one meal they are entitled to for one credit. So I'm confused as to why that would be an issue for Disney.

I believe your confusion stems from the fact that you're only considering one of many possible scenarios that allowing sharing of meals supports. There are many other ways you could use credits "saved up" from sharing of meals. Keep in mind that the Dining Plan factors in a certain amount of non-use. Not every family will have a significant amount of non-use, but many do, and the propensity for non-use would definitely be affected by any rules Disney may someday decide to put in place that restrict sharing meals. Indeed, such rules would very likely convert a significant amount of non-use of credits (which is "soft" non-use) into non-use of entitlements (which would be "hard" non-use -- I'm using the word "entitlement" here to mean an appetizer, entree, or dessert, within a specific meal). That conversion, I suspect, would increase the total amount of non-use, because it would overflow onto folks who previously didn't have much non-use, because they covered additional meals with the "saved up" credits.

Let me try to make this more concrete with an example: John and Jane have four credits. Scenario A (no rule): John and Jane share two meals as you suggest, ordering appetizers, entrees and desserts at each. They now have two extra credits, and can cover a third meal, which incidently they don't have to share, and as a result, since they're not big eaters, they only order one appetizer and one dessert. Scenario B (with rule): John and Jane aren't allowed to share, so they use up all four credit they have on just two meals instead of three, but because they're not big eaters, they only order one appetizer and one dessert eat each meal.

Scenario A = 3 appetizers, 4 entrees, 3 desserts.
Scenario B = 2 appetizers, 4 entrees, 2 desserts.

I'm sure it's easier to just say "no sharing" so they don't have to differentiate between TS and TS Buffet. But why even have the Signature dining option if this is the case?

The reason that there is the Signature dining option is so that folks have the ability to eat at some of the finest restaurants, if they wish to.

Again, it would be beneficial to consider other scenarios than just the first one that comes to mind, when thinking about how things work: For example, you can simply not use the Dining Plan for a TS meal one day (pay OOP, perhaps even just for an extra CS meal) to save enough credits for a Signature TS meal on another day.

 

[arielfans]

My problem with the DDP is the selection on the CS Kids Menus. Any restuarant usually has hot dogs, chicken nuggets, pasta, pizza or a hamburger but not Disney. The fact I have to research CS menus to find something my kids will eat in crazy, this is vacation. I booked ddp before the menus changed so I do feel "entitled". So I will most likely order 2 Adult CS and if we need additional food get back in line and use the card again for another Adult CS for the kids to share. I understand Disney wants to make the Kids menu unedible to adults but the choice of mac and cheese or uncrustable and sugar free jello is prison food.