Am I the only one who doesn't get the "Occupy Wallstreet" movements

[rhino78]

Paying fair taxes isn't sharing the wealth. It's the responsibilities of those who live and do business in America.

Again, OWS isn't against corporations, or people making money. It's about corporate greed. And the unfair advantage that major corporations have. If you think it's fair that a large corporation, such as GE, can donate a few million dollars to politicians, and then help rewrite the tax codes, which result in GE not paying any taxes here, then that is your right. Many feel differently about this. And knowing that many large corporations have "hidden" their profits off shore, and are currently asking our politicians for a tax holiday so they can bring those billions back to this country, tax free, how can you not see the difference between profitable corporations, and corporate greed. I'm disgusted with what we allow major corporations to get away with all in the name of profits. And by saying this, it doesn't mean I'm against profits, it means I'm against those profits being used to hurt America and Americans.

I don't argue against the idea of getting rid of crony capitalism, but labeling it corporate greed is silly. The corporations take advantage of the system set up by the government because they know the government plays favorites. The corporations don't make laws. Politicians do. This is why OWS will go nowhere. It garnered a lot of attention, but doesn't see the real problem. It focuses on the symptoms while ignoring the sickness. It offers little in the way of realistic solutions except vague notions of wealth redistribution.

It's like being angry that a bunch of people took advantage of fastpass and came back late, increasing your wait time. You can't blame them, blame Disney. They allow it. It's the same here.

 

[Muushka]

For those who believe everyone needs to pay their fair share, a few questions:

What exactly is a fair share?
Should it be based on what you earn or what you spend?
How do you determine what it should be?
Who determines exactly what a fair share is?
And finally, if everyone should pay their fair share, why don't all US citizens pay income tax?
If it is the responsibility of living in the US, shouldn't all citizens do it?

How about getting rid of tax deductions? Apparently there are plenty of people who reap the benefits of tax deductions.
We don't.

 

[Acklander]

I don't argue against the idea of getting rid of crony capitalism, but labeling it corporate greed is silly. here.

A rose by any other name is still a rose. You can call it crony capitalism, if you want. And what are you doing to end crony capitalism??? Are you just sitting there, accepting it? If so, you are part of the problem.
Like I've said before, you may not agree with the way OWS delivers the message, but it's still an important message. find your own way to let your politicians know that this is wrong.

 

[moburg]

For those who believe everyone needs to pay their fair share, a few questions:

What exactly is a fair share?
Should it be based on what you earn or what you spend?
How do you determine what it should be?
Who determines exactly what a fair share is?
And finally, if everyone should pay their fair share, why don't all US citizens pay income tax?
If it is the responsibility of living in the US, shouldn't all citizens do it?

How about getting rid of tax deductions? Apparently there are plenty of people who reap the benefits of tax deductions.
We don't.

I'd say the rich are paying their fair share. More than, actually.

Although, to be really fair, the entire tax system needs to be replaced.

 

[moburg]

A rose by any other name is still a rose. You can call it crony capitalism, if you want. And what are you doing to end crony capitalism??? Are you just sitting there, accepting it? If so, you are part of the problem.
Like I've said before, you may not agree with the way OWS delivers the message, but it's still an important message. find your own way to let your politicians know that this is wrong.

I do. By voting them out if they don't get it. Voting them in if they do. Worked great for me in 2010. And considering where OWS is directing their rage, they don't even get it!

Smashing windows, attacking the police, committing rapes, taking and distributing drugs, setting bon fires in the middle of the street, blocking traffic, squatting in public and private parks, mobbing banks, homes, etc, is not going to accomplish a thing.

 

[eliza61]

For those who believe everyone needs to pay their fair share, a few questions:

What exactly is a fair share?
Should it be based on what you earn or what you spend?
How do you determine what it should be?
Who determines exactly what a fair share is?
And finally, if everyone should pay their fair share, why don't all US citizens pay income tax?
If it is the responsibility of living in the US, shouldn't all citizens do it?

How about getting rid of tax deductions? Apparently there are plenty of people who reap the benefits of tax deductions.
We don't.

That in the nutshell is the problem.

I am rich (according to the IRS) I do not pay anywhere close to the tax rate that my secretaries or workers pay. Most people that I know in my income have never and will never pay anywhere near 28% income tax rate that the supposedly wealthy should pay.
Generally after deductions my tax rate is about 12-15% Do I want to pay more of course not, Id like to see better use of my money like every one else but I'm not about to lie and say that the rich are unduly taxed to death. they are not and if they are it's because they've got lousy accountants.

My personal belief is that every single citizen no matter how rich or poor has to contribute to the upkeep of the country. My personal belief is to pretty much get rid of all deductions.

Thats just me.

 

[eliza61]

I do. By voting them out if they don't get it. Voting them in if they do. Worked great for me in 2010. And considering where OWS is directing their rage, they don't even get it!

Smashing windows, attacking the police, committing rapes, taking and distributing drugs, setting bon fires in the middle of the street, blocking traffic, squatting in public and private parks, mobbing banks, homes, etc, is not going to accomplish a thing.

nO its not but not all Occupy movements are doing that. You've just decided to take one example and run with it.

The occupy philadelphia movement has not had a whit of trouble. They recently picked outside of the hotel where Rick Perry was holding a fundraiser, they've held massive voter registration drives and the city of Philly has been on board with their right to protest.

The bottom line that Ive said numerous times and has been proven over time, pretty much any successful social change in this country has pretty much come after the people took to the streets and caused major upheavel. From the original tea party in Boston to the Lunch counter sit ins, lynching and marches that defined the civil rights.

Sorry this country does not change until it's forced to change.

 

[Acklander]

I do. By voting them out if they don't get it. Voting them in if they do. Worked great for me in 2010. And considering where OWS is directing their rage, they don't even get it!

thing.

The voting them in/out thing worked a lot better before citizens united. Now it's a major issue, and will only get worse until it's overturned.

 

[Acklander]

nO its not but not all Occupy movements are doing that. You've just decided to take one example and run with it.

The occupy philadelphia movement has not had a whit of trouble. They recently picked outside of the hotel where Rick Perry was holding a fundraiser, they've held massive voter registration drives and the city of Philly has been on board with their right to protest.

The bottom line that Ive said numerous times and has been proven over time, pretty much any successful social change in this country has pretty much come after the people took to the streets and caused major upheavel. From the original tea party in Boston to the Lunch counter sit ins, lynching and marches that defined the civil rights.

Sorry this country does not change until it's forced to change.

I think the big difference with Philadelphia is the attitude. I read an article where, in Philadelphia, before each police shift goes out to the occupy site, the person in charge reads the 1st amendment out loud to law enforcement. So, they are going out with the mind set that the citizens have a right to be there, protesting. IMO, that has made a big difference.

 

[moburg]

nO its not but not all Occupy movements are doing that. You've just decided to take one example and run with it.

The occupy philadelphia movement has not had a whit of trouble. They recently picked outside of the hotel where Rick Perry was holding a fundraiser, they've held massive voter registration drives and the city of Philly has been on board with their right to protest.

The bottom line that Ive said numerous times and has been proven over time, pretty much any successful social change in this country has pretty much come after the people took to the streets and caused major upheavel. From the original tea party in Boston to the Lunch counter sit ins, lynching and marches that defined the civil rights.

Sorry this country does not change until it's forced to change.

One example? There have now been at least 6 rapes, and not in just one location. And considering many OWS sites are attempting to deal with the rapes internally, there is no telling how many others are not reported. The riots are occurring at multiple Occupy sites, not one. Sorry, but these are not isolated incidents. It is a pattern now.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

One example? There have now been at least 6 rapes, and not in just one location. And considering many OWS sites are attempting to deal with the rapes internally, there is no telling how many others are not reported. The riots are occurring at multiple Occupy sites, not one. Sorry, but these are not isolated incidents. It is a pattern now.

Also, OWS are shutting down businesses and the average citizens are losing their jobs, or pay. Not COOL!

 

[Muushka]

I do. By voting them out if they don't get it. Voting them in if they do. Worked great for me in 2010. And considering where OWS is directing their rage, they don't even get it!

Smashing windows, attacking the police, committing rapes, taking and distributing drugs, setting bon fires in the middle of the street, blocking traffic, squatting in public and private parks, mobbing banks, homes, etc, is not going to accomplish a thing.

I wonder how many people on this thread will support their party's newly elected if they don't do what they said they will?

I, for one, will go after any person elected who dies not do as promised and I don't care if they have a D or R or I after they name.

And whoever is elected the POTUS better not utter the words "we didn't know how bad it was" once they are in office.
This is a lame excuse. Again, no matter what is after their name, D,R,I, it is not an excuse.

 

[Muushka]

That in the nutshell is the problem.

I am rich (according to the IRS) I do not pay anywhere close to the tax rate that my secretaries or workers pay. Most people that I know in my income have never and will never pay anywhere near 28% income tax rate that the supposedly wealthy should pay.
Generally after deductions my tax rate is about 12-15% Do I want to pay more of course not, Id like to see better use of my money like every one else but I'm not about to lie and say that the rich are unduly taxed to death. they are not and if they are it's because they've got lousy accountants.

My personal belief is that every single citizen no matter how rich or poor has to contribute to the upkeep of the country. My personal belief is to pretty much get rid of all deductions.

Thats just me.

E, we finally agree.

 

[rhino78]

A rose by any other name is still a rose. You can call it crony capitalism, if you want. And what are you doing to end crony capitalism??? Are you just sitting there, accepting it? If so, you are part of the problem.
Like I've said before, you may not agree with the way OWS delivers the message, but it's still an important message. find your own way to let your politicians know that this is wrong.

No offense, but corporate greed and crony capitalism are NOT the same thing. They are not interchangeable. One is a real problem that needs to be solved and the other is a boogeyman phrase used to incite the ignorant.

As for what I do, I do as much as one can. I don't vote for either political party as they both play the game. It's like the Citezen's United decision you'vementioned. I agree that it was a bad decision, but can't understand why public worker unions are allowed to contribute to political campaigns either. They both have a clear cut conflict of interest. It's that hypocrisy that bothers me.

 

[moburg]

The voting them in/out thing worked a lot better before citizens united. Now it's a major issue, and will only get worse until it's overturned.

Last time I checked, the Citizens United case was decided well before the 2010 elections.

 

[moburg]

Also, OWS are shutting down businesses and the average citizens are losing their jobs, or pay. Not COOL!

Oakland business owners fear they won't recover

"Many, many Oakland residents ... feel that this is disrupting every effort this city has made to have economic development," said Councilwoman Pat Kernighan. "This has set us back 15 years."

I'm sure this is some how good for the 99%.

 

[Planogirl]

I'll be honest and admit that I don't want to see all deductions go away. Our mortgage deduction helps us. However if the tax code is reworked and our portion isn't such a burden then I can see it.

I constantly feel that the OWS people are hitting the wrong targets too but I guess that they do it to bring attention to their cause. I see no sense in shutting down a port, blockading a bank building and so on because I blame Washington for the mess we're in. These companies are definitely greedy but that's always been the case and protesting in front of their buildings isn't exactly going to send them running to government officials asking if they can pay more taxes or if new protectionist laws could be passed.

I see now that they plan to boycott Wal-Mart on Black Friday. I can see protesting some of Wal-Mart's policies so I respect that but I have a feeling that this won't even slow down the shoppers! We'll see.

 

[moburg]

I'll be honest and admit that I don't want to see all deductions go away. Our mortgage deduction helps us. However if the tax code is reworked and our portion isn't such a burden then I can see it.

Well, you can readjust the entire tax system, eliminate all deductions, and keep taxes about the same for most people. Eliminated the deductions, but lower the rate. Simpler and more fair. That's the gist of the various Flat Tax plans out there.

I see now that they plan to boycott Wal-Mart on Black Friday. I can see protesting some of Wal-Mart's policies so I respect that but I have a feeling that this won't even slow down the shoppers! We'll see.

Great! I usually avoid it on that day, but I may now have to go shopping at Wal-Mart on Black Friday.

 

[Muushka]

I'll be honest and admit that I don't want to see all deductions go away. Our mortgage deduction helps us. However if the tax code is reworked and our portion isn't such a burden then I can see it.

I constantly feel that the OWS people are hitting the wrong targets too but I guess that they do it to bring attention to their cause. I see no sense in shutting down a port, blockading a bank building and so on because I blame Washington for the mess we're in. These companies are definitely greedy but that's always been the case and protesting in front of their buildings isn't exactly going to send them running to government officials asking if they can pay more taxes or if new protectionist laws could be passed.

I see now that they plan to boycott Wal-Mart on Black Friday. I can see protesting some of Wal-Mart's policies so I respect that but I have a feeling that this won't even slow down the shoppers! We'll see.

I know that the mortgage deduction is something that everyone likes. And it is understandable. But for us, we can't even do the long form because we don't have enough deductions. We have been paying down our mortgage (should be paid off in less than 1 year) so that the interest is almost negligible. But like you said, if they took away all deductions and leveled the playing field, it would be more fair and someone like you would (or should) not feel the loss of the deduction.

OWS protesting WM on Black Friday!! Bring it on! I'll happily go past them.

Well, you can readjust the entire tax system, eliminate all deductions, and keep taxes about the same for most people. Eliminated the deductions, but lower the rate. Simpler and more fair. That's the gist of the various Flat Tax plans out there.




Great! I usually avoid it on that day, but I may now have to go shopping at Wal-Mart on Black Friday.

Flat tax, Fair tax, either one is light years better than what we have now.

 

[eliza61]

I'll be honest and admit that I don't want to see all deductions go away. Our mortgage deduction helps us. However if the tax code is reworked and our portion isn't such a burden then I can see it.

I constantly feel that the OWS people are hitting the wrong targets too but I guess that they do it to bring attention to their cause. I see no sense in shutting down a port, blockading a bank building and so on because I blame Washington for the mess we're in. These companies are definitely greedy but that's always been the case and protesting in front of their buildings isn't exactly going to send them running to government officials asking if they can pay more taxes or if new protectionist laws could be passed.
I see now that they plan to boycott Wal-Mart on Black Friday. I can see protesting some of Wal-Mart's policies so I respect that but I have a feeling that this won't even slow down the shoppers! We'll see.

I think one of the problems is that many people in the country no longer believe that voting will change any thing. Poll after poll is saying many Americans are simply fed up with the entire Government. So when people tell them to go vote, their answer (and I totally admit to feeling this way) is that voting will do nothing because the new guy coming in has been brought and paid for by the lobbyist.
I firmly believe that as long as money is allowed to be dumped into our political system that the laws and regulations will be written solely to benefit those with the money.
So exactly who and why should I even bother? Just sayin?