2008 DDP - why tip 18% OOP ?

[paulh]

The brochure is confusing. It sounds like DDP guests, parties under 6, will be getting billed an 18% gratuity on any items paid out of pocket but will be expected to tip appropriately on the included items.

Technically the automatic 18% gratuity, for parties of 6 or more, isn't a tip or gratuity it's a service charge and as such it isn't discretionary.

about time the peney dropped i think there is confusion on disneys side as well
Paulh

 

[JimMIA]

could you please tell me which one is the law and which one is good manners as reading a lot of posts here it seams thet the tip is the law
Paulh
plus its good manners to eat with a knife and fork,but thats anouther debate

Sure. Driving on the right-hand side of the roadway and paying all of your restaurant check are laws. Leaving an appropriate tip in discretionary situations and eating with utensils (in most cases) are good manners.

 

[paulh]

taken from 2008 brocure:-
Gratuities are not included unless otherwise indicated. An 18% gratuity will be added automatically for parties of 6 or more. A gratuity may also be added automatically for ordered items that are not included in the Disney Dining Plan (e.g. alcoholic beverages).
So the way it looks to me is if i order wine,which we do 18% will be added,so what happens for a appitizer i might order,and how much will i have to tipp for the rest off the ddp meal.Will i get 3 bills one for the wine with the 18% included(expecting that)one for app with a surgestid tip on? and one for the ddp order with surgested tip on.no will get one bill with wine and app on with 18% for everthing.think disney diging holes here
Paulh

 

[paulh]

[/I][/B] situations and eating with utensils (in most cases) are good manners.

both utensils please
Paulh

 

[JimMIA]

So the way it looks to me is if i order wine,which we do 18% will be added,so what happens for a appitizer i might order,and how much will i have to tipp for the rest off the ddp meal.Will i get 3 bills one for the wine with the 18% included(expecting that)one for app with a surgestid tip on? and one for the ddp order with surgested tip on.no will get one bill with wine and app on with 18% for everthing.think disney diging holes here
Paulh

You will get two checks. One will be for the wine, the appetizer, plus an added tax on alcohol, plus the required (not suggested) 18% tip. The other check will be for your DDP meal, and you will be responsible for leaving whatever discretionary tip you choose on that check.

 

[paulh]

You will get two checks. One will be for the wine, the appetizer, plus an added tax on alcohol, plus the required (not suggested) 18% tip. The other check will be for your DDP meal, and you will be responsible for leaving whatever discretionary tip you choose on that check.

think i will wait for jan 1st to find out,and i think the wait staff will get stiffed on this plan
Paulh

 

[gina2000]

Well, that seems goofy as all get out. You have a required tip on discretionary spending (OOP) but a discretionary tip on prepaid spending. Why not just subtotal the bill as if all the spending is OOP, BOLD IT, minus out the DDP items, create a balance on OOP spending and suggest that the tip be based on the subtotal?

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Thanks for sharing the voice of expeience. I think you have been articulate and your sincerity and knowledge added to this discussion is appreciated by me and probably most.

 

[NYDisGuy]

The reality is people like you make out the best. No one can make you tip anything unless it is explicitly stated up front as a term of service. Reap the benefits and tip as little as you like. There are plenty of others making up for you or there wouldn't be people like mine making a good living in the business.

This has nothing to do with the consumer. People tip based on quality of service. Ive experienced plenty of waiters/waitresses at Disney that were less then sub-par but since we were on the DDP they receive the 18%. Others do a remarkable job and still receive the 18% (although people do sometimes tip more). Disney employees cannot be like applebees or chilis employees. They are constantly surrounded by children and are in a vacation environment. They need to work harder then anyone to make sure the customer's are happy. Now if some slacker in Le Cellier decides to do nothing, why shouldn't he or she get less of a tip then someone who is working hard? As someone pointed out, they still will get more money at a 10% tip then someone at a food chain outside of Disney property at 20%. That's not saying that everyone should tip 10%, but if a waiter is bad then its totally discretionary, especially because your in the most "magical" place, and the high bill definitely should include quality service.

I love the new DDP. It gives more freedom to the consumer and also helps out the wait staff since there will be less app. orders and they will be receiving tips based on performance. This should be a major help in the debate of the decrease in quality in the TS restaurants.

 

[JimMIA]

think i will wait for jan 1st to find out,and i think the wait staff will get stiffed on this plan
Paulh

I know you won't stiff them, but I think you're right.

There will be isolated cases where CMs deservedly get stiffed. But there will be lot more people who come up with all sorts of unique excuses for their bad manners. The servers will be the big losers in DDP 2008.

 

[JimMIA]

Well, that seems goofy as all get out. You have a required tip on discretionary spending (OOP) but a discretionary tip on prepaid spending. Why not just subtotal the bill as if all the spending is OOP, BOLD IT, minus out the DDP items, create a balance on OOP spending and suggest that the tip be based on the subtotal?

That's one of those "computer/accounting mysteries." But he bottom line is, we can all come up with a thousand "woulda, coulda, shoulda's." The plan is what it is. It's the plan we have.

If it fits your family, great. If it doesn't -- as had been said many, many, many times on this board -- there are other discount programs and many other options.

 

[averysmom]

Yes, very true. I think people make the mistake of thinking gratuities are "optional" -- they're not. Gratuities are discretionary. BIG difference. You can choose how much to tip -- you don't choose whether or not to tip.

Um - no. I was a server for almost 6 years and I firmly believe that gatuities are optional! Bad service - no tip - not less tip - or a complaint with the same tip - no tip at all!

That being said, I can count on one hand the number of times I've left without tipping at all - all times blatantly incompetent and rude servers!

 

[gina2000]

That's one of those "computer/accounting mysteries." But he bottom line is, we can all come up with a thousand "woulda, coulda, shoulda's." The plan is what it is. It's the plan we have.

If it fits your family, great. If it doesn't -- as had been said many, many, many times on this board -- there are other discount programs and many other options.

Actually we don't know for certain how the billing will be constructed. WDW is known for altering and streamlining procedure.

What does the fit have to do with this discussion? We're discussing tipping and how it may affect patrons and servers alike. Sorry if you don't approve of theoretical discussions. They're what make most topics interesting.

 

[dburg30]

Ahhh the good ole tipping discussion


Well, I'll tip anywhere from zero to 50% (like a 9.99 sit down small area joint and I'll tip $5). I would guess I'm normally much closer to 20%. If the service is barely ok, 10% to very nice (my tea is never less then 1/2, I get my requests in a quick fashion etc etc) probably gets closer to 30-35%. Honestly I base my tips probably from highest to lowest as 1) keeping me tea'd, 2) the order being correct 3) being asked a couple of times if everythign was ok. 4) waiter/ress disposition 5) properly prepared food (if it's what I ordered, and isnt cooked right, more then likely the kitchen screwed up, the order probably wasnt placed wrong).

Those are my biggies, with making sure I have something to drink as my #1 thing that will weight VERY heavily on the final tip.

 

[bigbabyblues]

I start around 15% and give more according to service. I'm not going to tip well for poor service.

 

[JimMIA]

Actually we don't know for certain how the billing will be constructed. WDW is known for altering and streamlining procedure.

What does the fit have to do with this discussion? We're discussing tipping and how it may affect patrons and servers alike. Sorry if you don't approve of theoretical discussions. They're what make most topics interesting.

I don't mind hypothetical discussions. As a matter of fact, I've always thought it was pretty wierd that they didn't do something exactly like you suggested. I've also thought is was crazy to present a real check, and then a zero balance check. Seems like they could do that better.

That said, I'm sure there is someone at Disney with a lot more knowledge of their systems who looked at the situation, recognized the benefit of presenting only one check, and decided not to do it. Most accountants and computer gurus would much rather have one transaction and one piece of paper to deal with than a series of transactions. But for some reason, they considered that blinding flash of the obvious and decided to go another way.

We are all welcome to raise whatever points we like, but to me, a hypothetical discussion of how Disney's point of sale system could be reworked doesn't really add much to this conversation. Most of the discussion has been what and why Disney was making the gratuity changes, and how that might affect customers and servers, not how they do their bookkeeping.

The "fit" point fits perfectly, IMHO. Whatever nuance anyone wants to discuss about DDP, the fact is it's Disney's plan, not ours. They get to make their rules and set their policies.

It is what it is, and if we don't like it, our options are not to change the policy about tips, or rework their accounting software. Our option is to use the plan or not.

 

[gina2000]

Sure the discussion adds to the conversation. Steamlining a procedure to make it more user friendly ultimately adds to the bottom line of any customer based corporation. I'm not concerned with WDW bookkeeping. I'm interested in creating a user friendly strategy that may add value to the product. And corporations do change strategies based on feedback.

I don't even use the product but if conversations like this create a better product for the consumer and a better money maker for the corporation and its employees, then it's a job well done. Even if the theories/ideas don't work, they stimulate thought. That's what focus groups are all about. And while we're not a paid focus group, we are a relatively intelligent group of individuals who may find a way to make a better widget. Stifling conversation because "something is the way it is" stagnates thought and change. Sorry if you disagree.

 

[Brian Noble]

Um - no. I was a server for almost 6 years and I firmly believe that gatuities are optional! Bad service - no tip - not less tip - or a complaint with the same tip - no tip at all!

Unfortunately, the truly clueless waitperson will think you're just too cheap to tip. Denial is not just a river in Egypt, after all...

An excellent server provides attentive, flawless service. Attentive, but flawed service is not always the fault of the server, and so I often will give the server the benefit of the doubt. For example, if the food is late, but the server stops by to let me know that s/he is keeping an eye out for it, then I still provide a full tip. Effort counts for me, personally, though I know others base their tip only on the quality of the service, and ignore whether or not the server is trying.

But, if your service is bad AND you are not even trying, then I'm unhappy. This has happened to me precisely twice in my life. In both cases, I left a quarter. That way, there was no mistaking my intention. I didn't forget to tip you. That's what you deserved.

 

[Steelersfan]

It really makes me angry when a server automatically assumes they will get 18% no matter what.

when we ate at Sci-Fi for instance, the service was horrible. My food was cold not because of the kitchen, but because the server left it sit there for 10-15 minutes until he brought it to the table.

We were on the dining plan and he got his tip but I would have only left a few dollars if not just because he didn't deserve it.

If you have to pay $25 dollars or so for a lousy cold meal that is primarily the fault of the server, why should anyone feel obligated to pay even more.

What the heck happened to "the customer is always right?"

There have been many instances outside of WDW when my bill was 25.00 and I left the person close to $10.00 because they worked hard. It is not about being cheap.

If my income was tip-reliant, I would bust my butt to earn the tip, not sit back and expect it because "I'm entitled to it."

Let's face it, servers at WDW can make one heck of an income if they hustle. Maybe the service will be better now that they don't have an automatic 18% regardless.

The American system of economics is based on being rewarded for working hard. This standard applies to corporate CEO's as well as servers.

Sorry to people who might be offended but that's the way I see it!

 

[Mickiethepooh]

think i will wait for jan 1st to find out,and i think the wait staff will get stiffed on this plan
Paulh

Yes You go ahead and do that, because you will get TWO checks one for the things on the plan and one for the items that include the automatic tip, mainly the Alcohol.

Hopefully you will then do the right thing and tip on the food on plan bill in a reasonable amount based on the service you received.