LA Times - "Orange County could leap into yellow tier, with widest reopenings, as soon as next week"

[DLgal]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/19/cov...it-record-levels-despite-vaccine-rollout.html

That article is from April 19. They are on a downward trajectory now.

 

[Malcon10t]

Vaxxed people can still get and pass the virus. Exact same way as the non-vaxxed. The CDC makes perfect sense.

Right. Vaccinated people still have a slim chance (most are saying under 2% if exposed) of contracting SARS-CoV-2. They have shown that vaccinated people who become asymptomatically ill are not shedding, however, even those with even mild symptoms can expose others. It is a slim percentage, but it is there.

 

[DLRExpert]

No, this is absolutely not true at all.

from the CDC website:
Large-scale clinical studies found that COVID-19 vaccination prevented most people from getting COVID-19. Research also provides growing evidence that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines offer similar protection in real world conditions. While these vaccines are effective, no vaccine prevents illness 100 percent of the time. For any vaccines, there are breakthrough cases. With effectiveness of 90 percent or higher, a small percentage of people who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 will still get sick and some may be hospitalized or die from COVID-19. It’s also possible that some fully vaccinated people might have infections, but not have symptoms (asymptomatic infections).

 

[DLRExpert]

That article is from April 19. They are on a downward trajectory now.

I just Google'd "Chile vaccine" and that is what comes up

 

[DLgal]

from the CDC website:
Large-scale clinical studies found that COVID-19 vaccination prevented most people from getting COVID-19. Research also provides growing evidence that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines offer similar protection in real world conditions. While these vaccines are effective, no vaccine prevents illness 100 percent of the time. For any vaccines, there are breakthrough cases. With effectiveness of 90 percent or higher, a small percentage of people who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 will still get sick and some may be hospitalized or die from COVID-19. It’s also possible that some fully vaccinated people might have infections, but not have symptoms (asymptomatic infections).

You said that vaccinated people get and spread the virus "the same as non vaccinated people" and THAT is not true. Vaccinated people *may* get and spread the virus, but the chances are FAR, FAR less than for non vaccinated people.

There is literally NO vaccine in existence that is 100% effective, but being vaccinated is completely different in terms of viral transmission than not being vaccinated and we need to stop claiming that there is no difference just because it's not 100% protection.

 

[DLgal]

I just Google'd "Chile vaccine" and that is what comes up

Well, you need to be a bit more discerning than that if you are going to claim, a month later, that vaccines are having "no effect" and cases are continuing to climb in any specific place.

 

[DLRExpert]

You said that vaccinated people get and spread the virus "the same as non vaccinated people" and THAT is not true. Vaccinated people *may* get and spread the virus, but the chances are FAR, FAR less than for non vaccinated people.

There is literally NO vaccine in existence that is 100% effective, but being vaccinated is completely different in terms of viral transmission than not being vaccinated and we need to stop claiming that there is no difference just because it's not 100% protection.

Wouldn't non-vaccinated people also "may" get and spread the virus? There are people in this world that cannot and probably shouldn't get the vaccine (for example people with a history of allergic reactions). These people should not be blacklisted by any business or person.

 

[DLgal]

Wouldn't non-vaccinated people also "may" get and spread the virus? There are people in this world that cannot and probably shouldn't get the vaccine (for example people with a history of allergic reactions). These people should not be blacklisted by any business or person.

Not at the same rate of transmission, no. Someone who is unvaccinated should keep wearing a mask until such a time as the virus has basically stopped effectively spreading in the community. No business should ban those who cannot be vaccinated, but those people should expect to wear masks much longer than those who were vaccinated.

 

[CO2CA]

I would absolutely be fine if Disneyland issued a wristband for the day if you showed proof of vaccination, and by having the wristband, you were then exempt from any further masking requirements.

I could totally get behind this. They would need to have different colors for different days and other verifications in place, because I can see people trying to scam the system. However, this would be an excellent incentive for people to get vaccinated before travelling.

 

[DLgal]

I could totally get behind this. They would need to have different colors for different days and other verifications in place, because I can see people trying to scam the system. However, this would be an excellent incentive for people to get vaccinated before travelling.

They already do it for after hours parties, so it's not like they don't have experience using a system like this.

 

[CO2CA]

They already do it for after hours parties, so it's not like they don't have experience using a system like this.

True - it worked well for the Halloween parties. I miss those so much!

 

[AndrewC]

So they snap your

Not like no one has ever slipped a band off one wrist to move to another. This is the exact reason Disney stopped using wristbands after 3 months to allow kids to bypass the height requirements.

I wear wrist bands for various events almost weekly (well, not in the last year.) Even the "well fitted" and expensive ones can be slid off and put back on. So, in the morning, I stop by the hotel desk, get a band, take it off, give it to whoever, go back a few minutes later to a different person and get another one. It is NOT hard.

So they snap your picture during the first verification and scan your wristband barcode. They give you a wristband. When you hit the gate they scan your ticket and wristband and your picture pops up. There will always be a handful of people that are jerks and break the rules, but you can do some things to limit that. They do a pretty decent job limiting AP sharing and stuff.

from the CDC website:
Large-scale clinical studies found that COVID-19 vaccination prevented most people from getting COVID-19. Research also provides growing evidence that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines offer similar protection in real world conditions. While these vaccines are effective, no vaccine prevents illness 100 percent of the time. For any vaccines, there are breakthrough cases. With effectiveness of 90 percent or higher, a small percentage of people who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 will still get sick and some may be hospitalized or die from COVID-19. It’s also possible that some fully vaccinated people might have infections, but not have symptoms (asymptomatic infections).

That's not really a problem though. I hate to break it to you, but the government (and largely world) don't care if YOU (or I) die, they care if thousands of people die. Not everyone that's vaccinated will be a breakthrough case so even if 2 people out of 100 vaccinated are breakthroughs, those other 98 won't be infected. If those two people go hang out with another 100 vaccinated people maybe there will be no breakthroughs and it stops there, or maybe one or two get infected, etc. What it does is it keeps another pandemic from happening. That large picture is honestly what officials are looking at. If you personally have concerns about being a breakthrough case, keep the mask on and maybe go midweek when it's not as busy, etc. If you have a loved one that can't get vaccinated for whatever reason and you're worried you'll be a breakthrough case and bring COVID home to your family, wear a mask, or better yet, sadly just don't go. This is the hard time where those that are young and largely health and vaccinated will be able to race back to "normal" while those on the edges that can't get vaccinated, are at high risk of serious issues if they are a breakthrough, etc are going to have to take on the burden of keeping isolated still and masking etc.


The world has to return to normal sometime, and if the science shows that the main risk of pandemic level infection is extremely low among vaccinated people, then it's time to start returning vaccinated people back to normal.

 

[AndrewC]

Not at the same rate of transmission, no. Someone who is unvaccinated should keep wearing a mask until such a time as the virus has basically stopped effectively spreading in the community. No business should ban those who cannot be vaccinated, but those people should expect to wear masks much longer than those who were vaccinated.

Exactly, this is the uncomfortable time where if you have personal reasons to not get vaccinated you might need to sit out for a while and watch the world snap back to normal. I actually hope wearing masks in the USA kind stays "acceptable" because I think I'll always wear them on airplanes just so I don't catch a common cold etc at the start of a vacation. Judge your personal risk, take actions to protect yourself, but don't expect the world (or business) to stick with what's currently going on just for a small percent of people. 35% capacity isn't what Disney wants to be at, they want 100% capacity and people back in close lines, otherwise the park would have been designed differently from day one, or a single day ticket would be $400 to "self cap" attendance numbers, etc.

If you're one of those people, I feel for you. Just do your best to keep holding out and hope numbers drop more and more until you personally feel safe enough to go back. The only bright light for you is that the faster Disney is able to get back to normal, the MORE normal they'll be when you come back. Fireworks, parades, special parties, etc will all take some time to spin back up, and the sooner they start (even if you can't make it on day one) the more fully deployed they'll be when you do walk back into the park.

 

[Malcon10t]

WDW is currently at 45% and is expected to go to 60% in the very near future. Disneyland has been staying under 25%, but expect by Memorial Day to be at 30 +/-. I expect June 15, probably 45-50%.

 

[DLgal]

WDW is currently at 45% and is expected to go to 60% in the very near future. Disneyland has been staying under 25%, but expect by Memorial Day to be at 30 +/-. I expect June 15, probably 45-50%.

Disneyland can only go up to 35% if OC moves to yellow tier, which is expected next week, but not guaranteed yet. The guidelines in place until June 15 cap them at 25% in Orange tier.

 

[TikiTikiFan]

Disney CEO: New Mask Guidelines from CDC Are “Very Big News”, Hints At Summer Changes to Policy

Comments are more WDW focused but still relevant long term when Disney will have their freedom to make their own decisions again in CA. I'm guessing we'll see a change at WDW very soon.

 

[tlovesdis]

This. We’re currently at WDW. Tonight is our fifth and final night. Can’t wait to get on the plane back to So Cal in the morning. No to little social distancing, long lines (E Rides averaging 70 minutes) and crowds everywhere. If you do not have an ADR for lunch then be prepared to wait. Today at AK the wait at one place was 45-60 minutes after placing order. Not enough places open to handle the crowds.

I hope to write a trip report once home but we have three nights at the GCH starting June 13th. Will probably cancel. From what we have experienced here at WDW the magic is gone for the time being.

Wow it got busy! I was there April 22-29 and had the opposite experience! We had an amazing time. Posted times for big rides were 60+ minutes but in reality we always waited between 30-40 minutes, which was awesome! We rode lots of rides multiple times. We placed mobile orders in the AM for lunch and never waited once we said we were there to pick up. We also did one ADR a day, which was a nice break.

Sorry you didn't have a good experience. The more I go to WDW (this was my 5th trip) the more I love it!

 

[Disney0010]

Wow it got busy! I was there April 22-29 and had the opposite experience! We had an amazing time. Posted times for big rides were 60+ minutes but in reality we always waited between 30-40 minutes, which was awesome! We rode lots of rides multiple times. We placed mobile orders in the AM for lunch and never waited once we said we were there to pick up. We also did one ADR a day, which was a nice break.

Sorry you didn't have a good experience. The more I go to WDW (this was my 5th trip) the more I love it!

I lived in Florida for many years and I guess I remember when WDW was much different. I started coming to MK when it opened almost fifty years ago as a very young kid.

 

[Malcon10t]

from the CDC website:
Large-scale clinical studies found that COVID-19 vaccination prevented most people from getting COVID-19. Research also provides growing evidence that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines offer similar protection in real world conditions.

Latest news, New York Yankees have 8 positives after all 40+ were vaccinated in March. They are thinking it might be a new variant breaking thru. 2 are symptomatic, one of them had previously had Covid in November.

 

[AndrewC]

Latest news, New York Yankees have 8 positives after all 40+ were vaccinated in March. They are thinking it might be a new variant breaking thru. 2 are symptomatic, one of them had previously had Covid in November.

Link to source?