The “wet market”

[bcla]

I read that these are hard to shut down because there is also a traditional and spiritual element in them. They have been around for thousands of years and the practice of selling and eating exotic animals has traditions that go back forever. Apparently, certain exotic animals are believed to have healing powers for different ailments. Hard to break thousands of years of tradition.

Not sure if this is true or not, but it sounds logical.

I wouldn't necessarily say thousands of years since a lot of these "ingredients" have found their way into traditional Chinese medicine fairly recently. American ginseng is possibly the most common ingredient these days. Rhinos aren't really native to China either.

The thing about exotic wild animal meat is that it's really more of a way to show off one's wealth and status. Even eating any kind of meat was rare. Chinese aren't typically vegetarians, but meat wasn't an every day food except for the extremely rich.

I don't know if the wet markets need to be shut down, but the trade in wild animals certainly should be. In the United States it is legal to sell wild animal meat, although it has to be USDA inspected like any other animals sold for meat.

There are likely many viruses in wild animals out there with the potential to jump to humans. It's not unique to China, although the sale of wild animals for meat is something far more common there than in other parts of the world.

 

[bcla]

What wild animals get up to and are exposed to before you capture them is a mystery. Any food hunter can tell you that you watch the animal you are stalking, and if its behavior is off, you either don't kill it, or you kill it and (under safe conditions) burn it immediately because it might be diseased. Hunters look for signs of disease in a kill, and if they see them, they don't eat the meat. That is much harder to ensure if someone else is doing the hunting for you. In some cases you cannot see disease but are warned, such as the warnings currently in place in many US jurisdictions about getting prion diseases from the brain tissue of hunted unguents. For example: these are the rules in Missouri for having harvested deer tested: https://huntfish.mdc.mo.gov/hunting...sting-disease-cwd/mandatory-cwd-sampling-2019.

If it's a novel virus there's a pretty good chance that it's something where the wild animal has no symptoms or it's just something the animal lives with mild symptoms.

 

[MillauFr]

I think many Americans would become vegetarians if they saw the conditions in many meat packing plants.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I’ve followed stories of these markets for many years. My understanding is that since this health crisis, markets were ordered to shut down, however now that circumstances are improving, some are opening up again. Whether it’s legal to or not, I don’t know.

DH works with an Asian man who told him, “If it moves, we eat it”. I’ve seen it written, as well. Traditions and beliefs are strong. I’ve also read more recently that for some, it’s their livelihood to capture whatever wild animals they can and sell them to butcher and serve, with “freshness” being highly desired. Of course, cats and dogs are highly sought after, too, some still wearing collars, obviously stolen as pets. I saw a recent picture of wolf puppies in cages waiting for their fate along with all other types of woodland creatures.

In some parts of Asia, bears are kept for their bile which is a lifetime sentence of torture and pain they way bile is procured (which I won’t get into here but can easily be googled). I was hoping things might improve after this, but I don’t know...

 

[L&Lfan]

I wouldn’t necessarily become a vegetarian, but I’d definitely like to see more humane conditions in meat packing plants.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I think many Americans would become vegetarians if they saw the conditions in many meat packing plants.

I don’t think we should assume people haven’t.

 

[L&Lfan]

Google “bile bear” Wikipedia. It will break your heart.

 

[bcla]

I think many Americans would become vegetarians if they saw the conditions in many meat packing plants.

I've seen it all. The Harris Ranch Feedlot off I-5 in the Central Valley. I've peeked into the plucking room when I bought a chicken at Saba's Fresh Meats. However, it probably pales in comparison to an industrial meat processing facility where they might have chickens hanging from the feet before being stunned and drained.

 

[tvguy]

I wish that there was a ‘medical theorist’ forum. I just don’t know how many people on this forum are qualified to help you to find a reliable and fact based answer.

Just my opinion, but the terrifying thing about our current situation is the Doctors really don't know a lot for sure at this point. Not sure folks on the DIS are remarkably less qualified to help.

 

[NotUrsula]

If it's a novel virus there's a pretty good chance that it's something where the wild animal has no symptoms or it's just something the animal lives with mild symptoms.

That's my point. If hunting for one's own consumption is the only way of obtaining this meat, then the numbers are likely to be small and fairly manageable, and if a connection is made (such as happened with deer and CWD), then hunters can be warned and testing set up to help prevent &/or illness. It's well-nigh hopeless to try to manage that if hunters are out there trapping live and selling the animals to dealers, instead of going after them just for their own consumption. People will be a lot more careful with how they handle such interactions if their own health is at risk, vs. that of some anonymous stranger.

 

[bcla]

That's my point. If hunting for one's own consumption is the only way of obtaining this meat, then the numbers are likely to be small and fairly manageable, and if a connection is made (such as happened with deer and CWD), then hunters can be warned and testing set up to help prevent &/or illness. It's well-nigh hopeless to try to manage that if hunters are out there trapping live and selling the animals to dealers, instead of going after them just for their own consumption. People will be a lot more careful with how they handle such interactions if their own health is at risk, vs. that of some anonymous stranger.

Certainly a live animal infected with a virus is likely to be shedding the virus continuously, while a dead animal won't. Still - I recall in certain parts of the world they've dealt with infections from already slaughtered bushmeat.

But yeah - some of these viruses are essentially harmless to the carrier. But not once they jump to humans.

 

[Deploraboo]

The “wet market” cover story is a sham. We all know where this came from if we’d open our collective eyes.

 

[NYCgrrl]

OP,
I'm leaving it to the medical historians and epidemiologists to figure out who Patient One/Zero is but a current theory is unlike other recent viruses it jumped human to human.
More worried/concerned as someone w/o a medical degree or college diploma in medicine on how to remain in good health and avoid danger. Should you feel wet markets are the start avoid them.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Certainly a live animal infected with a virus is likely to be shedding the virus continuously, while a dead animal won't. Still - I recall in certain parts of the world they've dealt with infections from already slaughtered bushmeat.

I’d think even a dead animal could spread the virus via body fluids, especially during slaughter.

 

[hmsTigger]

A little long but this is from an expert in the field of epidemiology and public health, Dr Greger lecture from 2009 See how closely it relates to today. Explains your questions on epidemics and this pandemic as it relates to animals. Look at the last 10 minutes.



https://nutritionfacts.org/video/pandemics-history-prevention/

 

[Searc]

That's my point. If hunting for one's own consumption is the only way of obtaining this meat, then the numbers are likely to be small and fairly manageable, and if a connection is made (such as happened with deer and CWD), then hunters can be warned and testing set up to help prevent &/or illness. It's well-nigh hopeless to try to manage that if hunters are out there trapping live and selling the animals to dealers, instead of going after them just for their own consumption. People will be a lot more careful with how they handle such interactions if their own health is at risk, vs. that of some anonymous stranger.

A deer with CWD is blatantly obvious. Like you stated earlier, a hunter never eats meat from a sick animal. Same goes for fish.

 

[ShirikiUtundu]

The “wet market” cover story is a sham. We all know where this came from if we’d open our collective eyes.

Not sure if joking.
But if not, US scientists agree this virus bears no markings of genetic engineering, but sure, some youtube nobody who most likely went to China for sex tourism in the first place definitely cracked the case!

 

[bcla]

A deer with CWD is blatantly obvious. Like you stated earlier, a hunter never eats meat from a sick animal. Same goes for fish.

The problem is that one never really know if an animal is infected with some sort of disease. Heck - about 25% of humans infected with Covid-19 show no signs of illness. That's pretty much what happens with most common cold viruses. There are a lot of chronic diseases. I suspect that what animal Covid-19 came from didn't show any signs of disease.

However, the problem with viral illnesses isn't going to be with consumption since proper cooking kills any virus. It's going to be with contact with the carcass. That's been a source of transmission of certain viruses transmitted via bushmeat. The people who ate it didn't get sick, but the person preparing it did.

 

[bcla]

Not sure if joking.
But if not, US scientists agree this virus bears no markings of genetic engineering, but sure, some youtube nobody who most likely went to China for sex tourism in the first place definitely cracked the case!

A friend of mine who is originally from China believes that it came from a US government lab and was deliberately meant to target China as an economic weapon.

 

[fsjking]

A friend of mine who is originally from China believes that it came from a US government lab and was deliberately meant to target China as an economic weapon.

My question for him would be why didn't we have a vaccine stocked up so we didn't crash our economy at the same time?